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Old 12-04-2016, 01:22 AM
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Default Semiauto and Limp Wristing

Been thinking of getting a semiauto like an M&P9c for concealed carry.
My main worry is limp wristing.

I have a motor nerve condition that causes weakness in my right hand and wrist. When I'm workin' at home and at the gym, I compensate by using a brace.
However, when I'm just out and about, I usually don't wear the brace because I don't intend to stress it.
Many here know about my carry snubby.

If that's limp wristed, it'll still cycle to the next shot. Even without a proper two handed grip.
My worry is that if I need to use a semiauto and don't get a properly supported grip and have to use it with my gimpy hand that I'll limp wrist it and basically end up with a single shot.

Been thinking 'bout how things are getting crazier and maybe it's better to carry something with a bucket of bullets in the grip with a spare bucket on my belt.
But what good'll that do if it fails (or my wrist fails to support it properly) when I need it the most?
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Old 12-04-2016, 01:27 AM
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Stick with revos and use a New York reload?
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Old 12-04-2016, 03:28 AM
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Revolver is your best friend, get 2.
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Old 12-04-2016, 03:31 AM
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One way to find out...
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Old 12-04-2016, 04:08 AM
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I Love my M&P9c and i am Hobbit Sized with smallish hands
on some Semi-autos i have had trouble with "Limp Wristing"
Never to my recollection on the M&P9c

I would find one to try if you can
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Old 12-04-2016, 04:26 AM
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I had a stroke about 5 years ago, and my resulting condition isn't as sever as what you deal with! My non-dominant hand is still disproportionally much weak than before the stroke. During the rehab phase, I kept putting all the effort I could into strengthening my left grip strength and stamina. It has yet to return to anything that I find acceptable for shooting my 1911's weak handed. However, I was shooting my 1917 one day and tried it left handed and while much slower that it used to be, I found my weak side groups to be smaller than before the stroke.

Since the FBI statistics say an average shoot out is 1.7 (old numbers, I know) shots, this won't change reality, but I have changed how I view reality.

I know the therapists, would have had a fit if they knew what I did at home, but to heck with them! I took a Ruger Vaquero and returned the dry fire disk to it. While watching TV or movies at home, I would dry fire 10 rounds right handed and follow with 10 left handed. Rest and repeat, for hours on end. Then I took my 1917 and made snap-caps for it and used it to build more strength and muscle memory by doing double action! Rest and repeat! Hours on end.

My suggestion is; Don't give up! Don't give in! Fight it with everything in you! But until you know what your condition will actually allow, carry your revolver. Buy or borrow a semi-auto and "work out" until you know weather it will work for you, it just might take longer than you than it should. You'll need a lot of range time, since dry firing won't work for you, but that is never a bad thing.

Ivan
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Old 12-04-2016, 08:58 AM
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There's always the possibility of meeting more than one assailant, but generally speaking, once you plug one, the others don't tend to stick around.
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Old 12-04-2016, 09:29 AM
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The Military Arms Channel did an interesting series of Limp Wrist tests videos on YouTube. Might not be as much of a problem as you imagine.

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Old 12-04-2016, 09:50 AM
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bigwheelzip has it right.

I've tried over the years and have never been able to get a reliable semi-auto to malfunction by limp wristing it.

IMHO, it's one of those over blown internet myths and it's used to blame a malfunction on something other than the actual cause.

IMHO it's primarily a failure that is limited to some striker fired, polymer framed pistols. You know... like the much loved Glock. But it's a failure that is attributed to many other aluminum and steel frame semi-auto designs that just won't exhibit this failure. The mass of the frame matters.

If you are concerned about limp wristing, and want a concealed carry pistol, get a steel framed pistol like the CZ 75 Compact. The mass of the frame will not allow you to limp wrist it enough to cause a failure.

It's an SA/DA pistol so you can carry it in Condition 1 like a 1911 or you can carry it in DA mode, safety off with a loaded chamber just like your revolver, but with 14 plus 1 capacity. Weight wise it is about the same as a 2.5" Model 66 or 686.




What feeds the 'limp wrist myth for steel and aluminum frame pistols are the large number of shooters out there (and I use the term loosely) who buy a new semi-auto, then get on the internet and ask what "upgrades" they need. They end up with new after market springs, shock buffers and magazines and THEN go to the range, where they discover it won't shoot reliably.

Naturally they either blame the design, or if the internet doesn't agree, they (or the internet) decide it must be a problem with limp wristing.

In some cases it's just a close tolerance pistol that needs a couple hundred round to break in, and in other cases it's the aftermarket parts that have been installed, screwed up the engineering and created a reliability problem.

For example, look on the Kimber section of most general gun forums and you'll see people ranting about Kimbers. I own 3 and a half Kimbers (3 pistols and a conversion kit on a dedicated slide), and have found them to be incredibly reliable and have never broken either of my two high round count Kimbers.

But that's because I recognize:

1. Kimber pistols are well made, tighter than the average 1911 and need a couple hundred rounds for the parts to work well together;

2. Short barrel and frame 1911s have reduced slide over run distance and reduced over run time, and changing the spring weight reduces the over run time (too heavy limits over run and speeds slide return, reducing over run time, and too light causes rebound that also reduces slide return time). Similarly, a shock buffer will greatly reduce slide over run distance and time and create feed issues.

3. The 1911 is a controlled feed design where the magazine feed lip design matters, and if you change the magazine lips you are changing the engineering and some combination of point shapes, feed lips, and extractor profiles just won't work.

4. The Schwartz system requires a different re-assembly technique than other 1911s to avoid eventually breaking the pin that disengages the firing pin. People attempt to re-assemble them with the grip safety depressed, bash that pin repeatedly, eventually break it and then blame the design when the pistol won't fire.

1, 2 and 3 are all shooter induced problems that are often blamed on either "it's a Kimber" or are blamed on "limp wristing". None of them are usually rightly laid at the feet of the shooters who are at fault for thinking they know more than the design engineer.

Last edited by BB57; 12-04-2016 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 12-04-2016, 09:54 AM
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Snubby, if you were closer we'd find out about this TODAY!!! Surely somebody close to you will let you shoot their auto for a day to see.
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Old 12-04-2016, 10:08 AM
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To quote somebody famous: "A man's gotta know his limitations . . . "
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Old 12-04-2016, 10:19 AM
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I have thought on the situation where I might need a reload of my revolver and I am not sure there is a good answer to the question of how much available ammo is enough. I mostly use situational awareness and try to avoid any places that rate high on my bad stuff meter. I intend to use my gun to extract myself from a bad situation as quickly as possible and make every shot count. If I am effective with the shots I have I hope to have time for a reload if needed.
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Old 12-04-2016, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snubbyfan View Post
Been thinking of getting a semiauto like an M&P9c for concealed carry.
My main worry is limp wristing.

Been thinking 'bout how things are getting crazier and maybe it's better to carry something with a bucket of bullets in the grip with a spare bucket on my belt.
I understand your concern regarding "how things are getting crazier." My own thinking in that regard has changed dramatically enough over the past year so that I now carry an extra magazine for my Glock 30S. I freely admit that sometimes I feel a bit silly carrying that amount of firepower around...but then I start thinking about all those "what if" scenarios, so I keep doing it.

The flip side of that is if you have the slightest doubt about your ability to properly use a semi-auto, then stick with what you know and do best. Get a couple of speed loaders or speed strips to serve as your extra "bucket of bullets". The really competent revolver shooters I know can dump their empties and speed load another six just as fast as a semi-auto guy can release one magazine and insert another.

Just as an aside, I'd been a revolver guy all my life up until about four years ago, and a revolver does still serve as a vehicle gun for me a lot of times. But I like the increased capacity of the semi-auto...also the flatness and compactness of the 30S. I've been carrying and shooting it long enough that I'm totally comfortable with it and its dependability. Eleven rounds of .45 acp JHPs isn't anything to sneeze at. But frankly, if I were a bigger guy, I'd carry a 1911.

All this is just my opinion, you understand.
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:00 AM
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:14 AM
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Within the context of carrying for self defense.

You've got physical limitations.
You're concerned those limitations will compromise the reliable function of an autoloader.
You're comfortable with the operation of your revolver.

Not sure the need to overthink this.

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Old 12-04-2016, 11:33 AM
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Default Would a wrist....

Would a wrist brace help? At least for fun shooting. Like BB57 says, there's probably a gun out there that suits your physical needs. I don't think that limp wristing was that big of a problem when guns were made of steel.

As far as CC goes though, there ain't a thing wrong with revolvers.
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:54 AM
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Snubby, I don't think you would have any problem at all. I've shot a few thousand rounds through the 9C. It shoots real soft. Not much recoil. As stated prior, go shoot one if you can.
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Old 12-04-2016, 03:40 PM
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Personally, I'd stick with a revolver. It's worked for you all these years. Why change? Like the old adage goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Besides, if you went to a semi-auto, you'd have to change your handle to "Semi-auto Fan." Just doesn't have the same ring to it, if you ask me.
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Old 12-04-2016, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheelzip View Post
The Military Arms Channel did an interesting series of Limp Wrist tests videos on YouTube. Might not be as much of a problem as you imagine.

Military Arms Channel
- YouTube

I also wonder how many limp wrist incidents are down to wimpy US spec 9mm ammo in a European designed gun.

The design of the gun has much to do with its susceptibility to limp writing. Some say the Glock is vulnerable, other decry the the 1911, but opinions are... you know the rest.

You might consider a Grand Power pistol with it novel rotary barrel system. I'm not sure it is possible to limp wrist one because the recoil spring is so light. Easy to rack, reliable for those with less grip (my girlfriend) and low recoil impulse due to the low bore axis and rotary locking system sending some of the forces another way.
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Old 12-04-2016, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher View Post
I had a stroke about 5 years ago, and my resulting condition isn't as sever as what you deal with! My non-dominant hand is still disproportionally much weak than before the stroke. During the rehab phase, I kept putting all the effort I could into strengthening my left grip strength and stamina. It has yet to return to anything that I find acceptable for shooting my 1911's weak handed. However, I was shooting my 1917 one day and tried it left handed and while much slower that it used to be, I found my weak side groups to be smaller than before the stroke.

Since the FBI statistics say an average shoot out is 1.7 (old numbers, I know) shots, this won't change reality, but I have changed how I view reality.

I know the therapists, would have had a fit if they knew what I did at home, but to heck with them! I took a Ruger Vaquero and returned the dry fire disk to it. While watching TV or movies at home, I would dry fire 10 rounds right handed and follow with 10 left handed. Rest and repeat, for hours on end. Then I took my 1917 and made snap-caps for it and used it to build more strength and muscle memory by doing double action! Rest and repeat! Hours on end.

My suggestion is; Don't give up! Don't give in! Fight it with everything in you! But until you know what your condition will actually allow, carry your revolver. Buy or borrow a semi-auto and "work out" until you know weather it will work for you, it just might take longer than you than it should. You'll need a lot of range time, since dry firing won't work for you, but that is never a bad thing.

Ivan
Absolutely don't give up. If I had listened to the doctors I'd have spent the last 6 years in an electric scooty chair hopped up on narcotics.
Instead I spent the better part of a year relearning to walk using the muscles that still work. Now I'm looking forward to spring to go hiking in the mountains.
There's also the reality of my condition. I can't walk well at all without some kinda ankle and foot support on my right foot. Hiking boots work great for this.
The strength I lost in my right hand's gone. I just gotta learn how to compensate for it and do more stuff left handed. I brace my right wrist when I need to use both hands for a task.

I did learn to shoot left handed and I was considering making a left handed concealment holster but I know that after being a life long right hander, if I was confronted with a stressful situation, I'd automatically reach with my right hand.
Maybe a second snubby on my left side'd be the answer.

My wife and I go to the YMCA for spin class and working out 3 times a week. We also watch our diet.
Lotsa dry fire practice.
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Old 12-04-2016, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheelzip View Post
The Military Arms Channel did an interesting series of Limp Wrist tests videos on YouTube. Might not be as much of a problem as you imagine.

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- YouTube
Thanks for the link, I'll check 'em out.
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Old 12-04-2016, 06:06 PM
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I have thought on the situation where I might need a reload of my revolver and I am not sure there is a good answer to the question of how much available ammo is enough. I mostly use situational awareness and try to avoid any places that rate high on my bad stuff meter. I intend to use my gun to extract myself from a bad situation as quickly as possible and make every shot count. If I am effective with the shots I have I hope to have time for a reload if needed.
Being a brown skinned American Indian, I'm getting kinda concerned about the building racial stress in this country. It doesn't help that the media's fanning the flames.
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Old 12-04-2016, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
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I understand your concern regarding "how things are getting crazier." My own thinking in that regard has changed dramatically enough over the past year so that I now carry an extra magazine for my Glock 30S. I freely admit that sometimes I feel a bit silly carrying that amount of firepower around...but then I start thinking about all those "what if" scenarios, so I keep doing it.

The flip side of that is if you have the slightest doubt about your ability to properly use a semi-auto, then stick with what you know and do best. Get a couple of speed loaders or speed strips to serve as your extra "bucket of bullets". The really competent revolver shooters I know can dump their empties and speed load another six just as fast as a semi-auto guy can release one magazine and insert another.

Just as an aside, I'd been a revolver guy all my life up until about four years ago, and a revolver does still serve as a vehicle gun for me a lot of times. But I like the increased capacity of the semi-auto...also the flatness and compactness of the 30S. I've been carrying and shooting it long enough that I'm totally comfortable with it and its dependability. Eleven rounds of .45 acp JHPs isn't anything to sneeze at. But frankly, if I were a bigger guy, I'd carry a 1911.

All this is just my opinion, you understand.
I could probably whip up a coupla speed loader pouches out of stuff in my scrap box. Rivet it together, add a snap, good to go. Wouldn't be pretty but should be useful.
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Old 12-04-2016, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
Within the context of carrying for self defense.

You've got physical limitations.
You're concerned those limitations will compromise the reliable function of an autoloader.
You're comfortable with the operation of your revolver.

Not sure the need to overthink this.
Occam's razor - Wikipedia
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Old 12-04-2016, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mule Packer View Post
Personally, I'd stick with a revolver. It's worked for you all these years. Why change? Like the old adage goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Besides, if you went to a semi-auto, you'd have to change your handle to "Semi-auto Fan." Just doesn't have the same ring to it, if you ask me.
Yeah, "Chooglin' with semi-auto" just doesn't have the same ring as "Chooglin' with Snubby" has for my YouTube channel either.
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Old 12-04-2016, 06:18 PM
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If you can deal with a j frame, you'll have no problems with a semi.
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Old 12-04-2016, 06:23 PM
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If you can deal with a j frame, you'll have no problems with a semi.
I've done some work on my carry snubby. Springs, smoothing, a new grip (or is it stocks) to be able to shoot it with my right hand. It just jumps a lot due to the weakness (described as "profound" by my neurologist) in my right wrist.
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Old 12-04-2016, 06:30 PM
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You said you learned to shoot left handed and worry that in a stressful situation you would grab right handed. practice left hand draw and shoot until it becomes second nature, muscle memory.

My son had a stroke has lost the use of his right side , he may not be able to regain the use of his hand so I will work with him on shooting and reloading left handed until he can feel safe doing it
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Old 12-04-2016, 06:46 PM
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Snubby, concern about having a less-than-optimal grip on a gun in a serious defensive situation was one of a number of factors that I weighed in deciding to go strictly with revolvers about eighteen years ago. My hands are in bad shape with arthritis. I was concerned about limp-wristing, inadvertently dropping the mag or pushing the slide out of battery, etc. I've carried a steel J-frame daily since making that decision.

I'm considering a Ruger LCP as a hip-pocket backup, but the snubby isn't going away.

Personally I think that even in a turbulent time with some people acting crazy the odds against my having to use a firearm to save myself are huge.

I'm not a dark-skinned Native; but I am a little old man with a cane and an oxygen tank who lives in a city with a metro population close to a million and a half, where we just broke our record for homicides.

I still think the odds are solidly against my having to use my gun, and indicate that five rounds of .38 Special +P would likely be sufficient. The LCP backup has some appeal, but I feel pretty secure in my choice to this point.
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Old 12-04-2016, 06:47 PM
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Within the context of carrying for self defense.

You've got physical limitations.
You're concerned those limitations will compromise the reliable function of an autoloader.
You're comfortable with the operation of your revolver.

Not sure the need to overthink this.
This is by far the best advice. If you try to solve a problem that likely will never occur with a solution you're clearly not comfortable with, that's not a recipe for feeling and being safer.

If it's important enough for you, this would be my recommendation:

One should never consider carrying a gun CCW without being thoroughly familiar with it first anyway. So keep carrying your snubby, and as money allows, try out and buy yourself a semi-auto you consider suitable. Shoot it as much as you can, with both hands, with either hand, consider carrying options, limp your wrists, and hold it sideways like a gangbanger or whatever else won't get you ejected from your range.

You'll discover whether limp-wristing is an issue worth worrying about, whether you like that semi-auto enough to give up your snubby, or maybe not.

Either way, you'll have fun and it will be a well-educated decision.
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Old 12-04-2016, 07:05 PM
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If you are switching to auto you may as well get a 16 shot da 9mm. With 1 mag it will be about the same weight as the snub with extra bullets. Keep the snub. You wont lose more than $100 if you decide you dont like it.

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Old 12-04-2016, 08:58 PM
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You said you learned to shoot left handed and worry that in a stressful situation you would grab right handed. practice left hand draw and shoot until it becomes second nature, muscle memory.

My son had a stroke has lost the use of his right side , he may not be able to regain the use of his hand so I will work with him on shooting and reloading left handed until he can feel safe doing it
Even though I know that my right hand doesn't work well anymore and I have been doing more stuff left handed, I still find myself reaching for stuff with my right hand. It's just an automatic thing for me.
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Old 12-04-2016, 09:13 PM
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Snubby, concern about having a less-than-optimal grip on a gun in a serious defensive situation was one of a number of factors that I weighed in deciding to go strictly with revolvers about eighteen years ago. My hands are in bad shape with arthritis. I was concerned about limp-wristing, inadvertently dropping the mag or pushing the slide out of battery, etc. I've carried a steel J-frame daily since making that decision.

I'm considering a Ruger LCP as a hip-pocket backup, but the snubby isn't going away.

Personally I think that even in a turbulent time with some people acting crazy the odds against my having to use a firearm to save myself are huge.

I'm not a dark-skinned Native; but I am a little old man with a cane and an oxygen tank who lives in a city with a metro population close to a million and a half, where we just broke our record for homicides.

I still think the odds are solidly against my having to use my gun, and indicate that five rounds of .38 Special +P would likely be sufficient. The LCP backup has some appeal, but I feel pretty secure in my choice to this point.
I tried the LCP, couldn't even pull the trigger back far enough to dry fire it right handed.

Does sound like you have "target" written across your forehead in bright neon letters.
Me? Back in the day I was described as "scary". Now I'm a bit older but I'm still healthy and you couldn't really tell there's anything wrong with me without knowing. I've worked hard on walking and I have just a bit of a gimp in my stride.

My brain tells me that I'm fine with just a 5 shot snubby with a coupla reloads but with all that's been going on I sometimes feel like I should be carrying more.
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Old 12-04-2016, 09:32 PM
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Also, how about keep the wife well trained up and well armed, if she is not already, and get a smart dog with a good bite on him/her. Anybody messes with you, then, you got some serious back up.

But I am really hoping you don't have to worry, where you are, in West Virginia, about increased danger. Your area seems very rural. I would think you must be pretty well known to your neighbors and community, and would have a lot of local support if needed.
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Old 12-04-2016, 09:47 PM
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Also, how about keep the wife well trained up and well armed, if she is not already, and get a smart dog with a good bite on him/her. Anybody messes with you, then, you got some serious back up.

But I am really hoping you don't have to worry, where you are, in West Virginia, about increased danger. Your area seems very rural. I would think you must be pretty well known to your neighbors and community, and would have a lot of local support if needed.
Like I tell people. It ain't me ya gotta worry about, It's my wife.
Ya ever see an angry Italian!
She carries a 66-3 and shoots it well enough to show off.

Yup, small town West Virginia, where people know your business better than you do.
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Old 12-04-2016, 10:30 PM
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i learned on a Ruger Single Six and my first new revolver was a Colt @nd Gen SAA. When I bought my 1st Colt 1911 I held it like a Single Action which appears to be limp wristed. I shot low and wasn't happy till I looked at some articles, they are held different.
Now I go to the correct grip when I pick one up to shoot it.

I taught many to shoot revolvers and semi autos.

I tell them to hold an auto like you are going to punch something, wrist locked straight.

SA and somewhat a DA is held with the wrist bent, sort of the limp wristed look.

Autos do generally require resistance in the hold to reliably cycle.

Snubby, it might be best to fire a friends to see how it goes.

Or try to find one like you are considering as it will give you the exact answer.
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Old 12-05-2016, 09:08 AM
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Over the years I have introduced many people to shooting handguns. I always start with a .22 revolver and work up in power. Then we switch to semi-autos, again starting with .22s. This is when a lot of them have trouble with limp wristing. Once that is corrected they are able to go on to larger calibers with no trouble. I don't know if the .22 is more prone to limp wrist problems or if they have learned a better grip when they move up to larger calibers.
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Old 12-05-2016, 09:52 AM
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I have not seen this mentioned but how about renting one to try. Best compromise. You don't spend the money to buy and find out it doesn't work for you at the same time you're not left wondering. While you're at it rent some other ones as well. Shield, Glock 43, 26, 19, Kahr, ....etc.... whatever they have that many look like it fits your needs

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Old 12-05-2016, 10:30 AM
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This is by far the best advice. If you try to solve a problem that likely will never occur with a solution you're clearly not comfortable with, that's not a recipe for feeling and being safer.
Second that!

While I understand your concern about the changing climate in the country there is one thing that isn't changing - human nature. Whether a lone attacker or a group, once a gun is presented in defense you discover just how few people want to risk getting shot.

Five rounds in a gun you're confident and competent with is sufficient for your edc.
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Old 12-05-2016, 10:32 AM
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How about a hybrid?

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Old 12-05-2016, 10:34 AM
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How about a hybrid?

Shooting tomahawks?

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Old 12-05-2016, 11:13 AM
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Shooting tomahawks?
snubbyfan will know what to do.
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Old 12-06-2016, 03:14 AM
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"Limp Wristing" is harder to do as some have said in their comments .. go to a range near you and shoot a box of rounds through a rented auto or barrow a friends auto .. most of us would allow you to use ours if you explained your reason if we were at the range I think so you might try that !!

I have actually tried to get myself to limp wrist shooting my S&W Compact in 40 S&W a much stronger round then the 9mm and it was much harder then you might imagine ..

The main thing would be to insure you had a good comfortable grip so if shooting the compact try all three back straps .. I found the large fit my hand the best and I shot mine the best with the Large Back Strap on it .. and I have rather smaller size hands ..
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:23 PM
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How about a hybrid?

It'd take lotsa leather to make a concealment holster for that one.
Owb, or iwb? Definitely not appendix carry.
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:25 PM
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snubbyfan will know what to do.
"Bonk bonk on the head."
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:30 PM
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"Limp Wristing" is harder to do as some have said in their comments .. go to a range near you and shoot a box of rounds through a rented auto or barrow a friends auto .. most of us would allow you to use ours if you explained your reason if we were at the range I think so you might try that !!

I have actually tried to get myself to limp wrist shooting my S&W Compact in 40 S&W a much stronger round then the 9mm and it was much harder then you might imagine ..

The main thing would be to insure you had a good comfortable grip so if shooting the compact try all three back straps .. I found the large fit my hand the best and I shot mine the best with the Large Back Strap on it .. and I have rather smaller size hands ..
That's another thing I was thinking. Would a more powerful round like a .40 be less prone to limp wristing?
I've shot semi's before and have no trouble with a 2 hand hold.
I'm just wonderin' if a less than idea grip in an emergency situation, would lead to a possible failure.
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Old 12-07-2016, 04:33 AM
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That's another thing I was thinking. Would a more powerful round like a .40 be less prone to limp wristing?
I've shot semi's before and have no trouble with a 2 hand hold.
I'm just wonderin' if a less than idea grip in an emergency situation, would lead to a possible failure.
From what I have seen target 22s & low power autos like 38s & 380s are the worst. If you hold them a certain way some will full auto with a light trigger. I dont recall a good factory 9mm or a 40 messing up unless it was the ammo. A full power load should work the best. The 16 shot guns are a little heavy but you dont have to worry about reloading. After a while you get use to it. I have a Glock 17 and just bought a cheap Taurus 40 to try this week end. I know how to hold them to see if they screw up. Beer cans beware.

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Old 12-07-2016, 05:10 AM
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From what I have seen target 22s & low power autos like 38s & 380s are the worst. If you hold them a certain way some will full auto with a light trigger.
That's just miserable trigger control. Or rather, over-reaching one's trigger control abilities.

The High Master's way of doing it is to release the trigger just enough to reset after taking the shot. The effect achieved is that breaking the subsequent shot takes almost no effort. I believe it to be psychological in nature. The idea being that you start with 85% of the trigger's weight already applied, and you just need to nudge it over the last 15%.

The problem is that, like a lot of super-advanced ways of doing things, it requires a lot of practice to develop and maintain that skill, and to be able to do it consistently. An inferior technique that you can apply consistently is better than a superior technique you cannot. Anyways, what you end up with is a lot of guys shooting a lot of doubles or triples, because they're trying to shoot like a High Master without, well, being High Masters. They're doing it backwards.

I personally advocate pulling through and pinning the trigger to the frame. Think of it like swinging a baseball bat. The bat-and-ball contact is the trigger breaking--and the ball, if you must know, is the Minimum Arc of Movement.



In an ideal shot, the trigger pull is unbroken--like swinging a bat--and intersects with the Minimum Arc...well, without trying to intersect it. The swing, or trigger pull, is the same every time, and the trick is to time the start to hit the ball.

After the shot breaks, you keep pulling the trigger until the trigger hits the frame. And you hold it there, through the recoil. As the gun settles, your finger deliberately comes all the way off the trigger, and you start again.

Pinning the trigger to the frame, as opposed to slapping and releasing it, forces you to continue good trigger habits, and helps you fight shot anticipation. If you're determined to keep a constant trigger pull through the shot, it's a lot easier to have an unbroken trigger pull. The downside is that it's slower.

When I took this technique from my rimfire bullseye shooting to my casual centerfire shooting (on the same frame, coincidentally, just with a conventional 1911 upper instead of a .22 blowback conversion), my centerfire groups shrunk. There wasn't any size difference between my 7, 10, and 17-yard groups, which I interpreted as a sign that I was shooting to the limits of the target and my vision/sight picture.
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Old 12-07-2016, 07:38 PM
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Trigger control, the secret to shooting a snubby.
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