This afternoon the blushing bride and I went to Pizza Hut for lunch. Got seated and as we were sitting down I noticed a guy wearing what looked like a MT HP patch on a blue hoody. Not a HP looking guy, beard and cowboy hat, I also noticed his very over weight companion was wearing camo pants and had some kind of DA auto in a plastic fantastic holster. Montana is open carry, but it is very rarely seen.

Any how, we order and make our way to the salad bar passing right by them. Sit back down and wife makes no comment. I asked her if she had noticed anything about the guys in the booth. No. Take a look she turned for a moment. Still didn't notice. Look at belt level. Still misses it. Now she isn't a stupid person, but I guess not very observing of details.

Anyway later they leave, I notice the guy with HP emblem has "grip bulge". I highly doubt he was ever an HP, but who knows. Semi mall ninjas to me.

Spoke with wife about situation awareness.

But, I found it interesting that here is a guy walking around with an open gun and people could completely miss it. Speaks volumes to me. I know sometimes I print a bit, but hey if people completely miss the obvious whats a minor print now and then in warm weather.

I could really care less if people open carry, but, their outfits kind of made me wonder what was going on in their grey matter.

One thing that often happens around here is walking into a late night or early morning convenience store and finding nobody around. Crime is very low here, they are usually in back doing something oe out a side door taking a smoke break. But, it makes me nervous and I always wonder about walking in on some kind of robbery. I am glad I have a slightly suspicious attitude. Better than being totally oblivious.

Pizza Hut is not the type of eatery one would typically dress for, and My experience is Montana is fairly casual in general.

Stop in most any Star Bucks in Seattle and and that will make you think about today's fashion choices. Good or bad things keep a changing,,, remember Leisure Suits?

I don't carry at all but situational awareness was ingrained in me a long time ago.

Being observant has absolutely saved my bacon twice that i know of.

Funny thing is i am more observant when my girlfriend or children are with me than alone.

I think it's probably safe to say that most people don't pay attention to things like that simply because they feel safe and that everything is well and okay.

I think that's another reason why many people don't notice when someone is "printing." They aren't expecting it.

Not too long ago, I noticed a gentleman printing at a function we were attending. I engaged him in casual conversation, exchanged pleasantries, so on and so on. Anyway, during the course of the conversation, he mentioned that he was a detective employed with the local sheriff's department. At that point, I smiled and casually mentioned, "You might want to know that you're printing." He, too, smiled, thanked me and said that very few people would ever pick up on that.

It's been my observation that most of the folks on this forum probably have a higher degree of situational awareness than your average, run-of-the-mill citizen. I don't know why. Probably just the "nature of the beast," I suppose. At least that's what I've picked up on.

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Pack light and cinch tight.

Just curious what the guy being very overweight and wearing camouflage pants had to do with it. I'm 6'4" 500 lbs and like camo pants. Doesn't mean I'm not a responsible gun owner. Granted I prefer to conceal but his choice.

Plus it's MT aren't you issued a gun at birth out there?

It's funny how some people react. I did a test at work one time, bought a water pistol (red)
painted it black and put it in a holster, strapped it to my belt on my work clothes.
Walked around among my coworkers with a "Crazy face" on.

Not one comment.

Sweden is a "no carry" country, as in "NO CARRY WHAT SO EVER"
but no one even asked about the "gun" on my belt.

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Jamie wants big boom

But I thought I read somewhere, that you CAN buy hand grenades?? But not the kind he's throwing:

Most people are fairly clueless.

I used to carry a fanny pack pretty regularly. Most internet types will tell you this "screams gun", though they will usually capitalize it for extra obnoxiousness. Its the same thing they say about photographers vests, though they will also throw in its a "shoot me first" vest, also capitalized.

No one notices. I pretty sure you could actually scream "gun"
and "shoot me first" and no one would notice.

Cops and gun forum members might notice. I know I do. But most others are too busy with life or looking at a phone to care.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

I've found people don't pay attention to anything out side of their own little bubble that extends to the end of their arms .. out side of that you might as well have a brick wall up ..
our minds just don't have the ability to do the recall ..

My wife use to work at a bank and the fed's came in and showed them a movie of a bank robbery and then asked questions .. all 12 people had differing answers on the questionnaire .. and these people were told in advance what they would be tested on ..

I realize that I'm going to print at some point and I realize the most people are clueless but the clueless people aren't the ones I'm worried about. It's the ones who know exactly what that bulge on my hip is that I'm worried about.

If I'm carrying concealed it's because I don't want you to know I'm carrying a gun. It's not even so much the "shut me first" thing it's the I don't want you in my business

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Retired Career Security Guard

People actually look up from their phones?

This is something I learned working two years in a gun store: you can't judge a book by the cover.

Two customers come to mind. One, a white guy with purple hair, a nose ring, the big hoops in his earlobes, earrings. I showed a half dozen different handguns. I don't remember what he bought, a Glock I believe, but it was a substantial purchase. We didn't have to do a background check because he had a Georgia Firearms License. He has become a repeat customer, and he is knowledgeable about handguns.

The other one is a black guy with dreadlocks, and other "thuggish" features. Again, I treated him with the respect due any customer. He wound up putting a couple of handguns totaling around $1K on layaway. I figured we wouldn't see him again. Turns out that he has an excellent job with a trucking firm, and also holds a GWL. He picked up those guns. He has made several more purchases.

Another customer, older and sort of sloppy looking, turned out to be a retired PD Officer from a nearby city. He had been "winner" in a couple of shootouts with armed robbers back in the 70s. I verified this from newspaper archives.

Your two guys might very well have been mall ninjas, but they also may have been the real deal.

As the baseball player said, you can sum it up in three words: "You never can tell." ;-)

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Georgia On My Mind

+1
aka (for the most part); sheeple

I never carry openly. I know it may seem I am knocking those who wear tactical clothes camo pants military style boots etc. but I am not. Couldn't care less..but a higher percentaage of them are looked at skeptically by many people. Doing gun shows selling reloading items and supplies lets me interact with all sorts of people. When I see people open carrying 9 out of 10 times it is the tacticoolly dressed. Saw 2 the other day in Mickey D's. Now this is locally mind you. People in Wy are a bit different. That's why I live here. Nobody including the police get upset seeing a gun. Sometimes a tourist may look a bit askance. Two ladies from Canada asked me one time in the checkout line in Wally World if I had seen the fellow in front of me had a gun on his belt. I said well...yeah. I then explained that it was legal and that probably 4 or 5 out of 10 also carried concealed. They were amazed that there were no shootouts on the streets of Cody every day. Then they asked if I carried a gun also. I told them sometimes but my wife always carries. Told 'em she was a better shot than me! As far as odd questions from tourists though...I had one foreign lady who asked what time they let the animals out in Yellowstone. She wanted to be there when they did so she could see a wolf...I was, to be very honest, blown away by the question. I tried to explain..but don't know if she actually believed me.

Maybe people saw it and they didn't care?

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I have a small (50 yards) range in my back yard and have shot there for 25+ years. The neighbors all are aware of it and don't mind.

In the last couple of years when I shoot the police get calls from up on the hill across the valley. Upscale homes were built there and the owners seem to be people escaping from the city (Pittsburgh). Whenever they hear gunfire they assume it's a drive by shooting so they call the cops.

The police are very nice about it as I am breaking no laws or local ordinances. Now I call them first and advise them that I will be shooting.

As to carry I never open carry, when I carry I don't want anyone to know that I would shoot back.

digiroc

I walked into the local Burger King last fall and noticed a cute gal carrying an infant and an M&P. It looked like her sweatshirt could have rode up exposing her sidearm. So I made eye contact with a smile and asked if she knew she was "showing". She replied with a smile, "Yeah, I know." I simply replied, "OK, just making sure."

Interesting encounter. Minnesota permits just say PERMIT TO CARRY A PISTOL.

It has been my observation that a great many open carry folks are wanna be somethings. Wanna be cops, wanna be military, wanna be super agent man, etc. No, not all of them . . . not most . . . but a great many. I just don't get the "I can carry my AR15 strapped over my shoulder into Walmart because it's my by God given right" attitude.

The policy for our officers when off duty is to carry concealed because we teach that open carry puts you at a tactical disadvantage.

Just stating my opinion, not trying to disrespect anyone.

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- Change it back -

I am sure some people noticed and didn't care. But, the point was my wife walked right by the guy and didn't notice, thenwhen aksed to look at him missed seeing it again.

Did she know what color his shoes were?

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

That certainly happens sometimes. I remember once seeing a decently dressed gent in upper New York State carrying a gun which showed (to me). It didn't bother me, and I wasn't taking a poll about other folks' reactions. He might have been a policeman or some such, but I didn't see a badge.

FWIW, I often wear a "shoot-me-first" vest, and don't get a reaction. I once saw front-worn fanny packs which I well knew carried guns, because they were worn by co-workers of my "corrections officer" son. I'm not sure that he had them figured as armed.

Nothing wrong with being careful, but we are far more concerned about tell-tale clothing than the general public, or even most cops.

When I see open carry in our state, where it's fairly easy to get a CCW, I automatically suspect the person's motive. Hopefully, they're only making a political statement and not just looking for a confrontation. I generally like to keep an eye on them, however, although I don't automatically put them in the bad guy column.

I personally like the element of surprise and being able to choose if and when I'm going to interject myself in a deadly force situation. That's why I carry concealed and keep my eyes moving and assessing my surroundings. My wife understands my years on the job and always leaves the seat against the wall and facing the door for me. Old habits die hard.

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Join the NRA today

i open carry because it's comfy.
either people don't notice or feel it would be impolite to mention it.
i'm not a wanna be anything.
i'm just me.

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susie

I think I have mentioned before that at local gun shows a fellow sells Body Armor. Someone told me it is illegal to own in some states. The people buying this stuff aren't cops or military people. It's darned expensive. Many who are buying are also the tactically dressed. I don't understand the reasons to buy the stuff. Maybe I don't really want to know. If I noticed someone carrying openly wearing body armor and no police uniform..I'd probably leave the area

So...what time do they let the animals out?

0730 every day. Rain or shine snow hot or on the really cold days they have to beat the animals to make 'em leave the heated pens they have. While it is not widely known the bears have classes on how to steal pic-a-nic baskets

That right there is such a simple and obvious point I never considered.

THAT'S starting to be the norm reaction around here. No lunatics freaking out at the sight of a non-live object. It was predicted many times by the idiots who are editors of the CC Caller Times-as well as VERY well uninformed-or intentionally stupid? that there would be; "Blood running red in the streets and Wild West-like gunfights" none of which has happened and open carry here has been in effect for 1 year and 2 weeks.

Ma'am, THAT'S the exact way I feel about open carry. Not anything connected with showing off. In my earlier days in my old hometown, it was extremely common to see folks with guns in cars--rifles and shotguns stacked near the checkout lanes in grocery stores and in restaurants. I want it back like I experienced it when growing up. I still remember taking a Lee Enfield to high school-just because that was a normal thing. Many others brought guns in as well--no probs ever-while I was in high school.

Now it's in the early stages of what it used to be.

It is interesting that you mention this. I was talking to a man that grew up in ND. His dad was a ranch hand at a dairy farm and they lived in a house that the rancher owned. Game hunted locally was used to get by. He told me he would hunt his way to school each morning with his brothers. They would hang any rabbits or pheasants etc up in the coat room of the school along with their guns. When school was out they would hunt their way home. It was just a way of life. When I was a kid in the late 60's, my dad got me out of school for opening day of small game season and deer season. The school was fine with it. Can't imagine what would happen today if you sent your son to school with a note stating he would not be at school because of the season opener ! Not trying to hijack the post just trying to highlight how urbanized and brain washed the public is. On another note, people's situational awareness increases when they realize that safety is a perception not always a reality.

More than one school district around here purposefully schedules a fall break around deer season opening week because of the attendance dropoff . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I don't get the 'God given right' part - The right to self defense might be a 'God given right' - essentially the right to self defense is inalienable and I get this part but where is it written it is a God given right to carry a FIREARM? I read and hear this so much it's getting old.

Missing school to go hunting is very common around here and wouldn't even raise an eyebrow from any of the teachers or Principal.

Besides that don't think a gun in the school parking lot would be a problem around here.

Montana state law, which effectively nullifies the federal gun free zone around schools for Montana citizens:
45-8-360. Establishment of individual licensure. In consideration that the right to keep and bear arms is protected and reserved to the people in Article II, section 12, of the Montana constitution, a person who has not been convicted of a violent, felony crime and who is lawfully able to own or to possess a firearm under the Montana constitution is considered to be individually licensed and verified by the state of Montana within the meaning of the provisions regarding individual licensure and verification in the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act.

Ahh, plastic guns and plastic gear.....Jees, no respect at all.


That thar is something that should be kept hidden in public.


Steel & Leather are for open carry..........


Jest sayin'






.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

A parent can temporarily take their child out of school for any reason, or no reason. An explanation is not necessary. The school is not the legal representative of the child, the parent is.

The reason that schools require a parental note for a child's absence is to be certain the parent is aware of the absence.

I had a friend who would occasionally go get his boy out of school to go fishing. No explanation offered. The school would ask why, he would say "Because I'm his father."

The 2A quite clearly reads to "BEAR" arms shall not be infringed. Bear = carry.

As far as God-given...

I really like the way AWR Hawkins explains it.

We don’t have the right to keep and bear arms because the Bill of Rights says so; rather, the Bill of Rights says so because the right to keep and bear arms is intrinsic to our very being: it is a right with which we were endowed by our Creator.

How are gun rights God-given and inalienable? | The Daily Caller

I occasionally got a day off from school to go hunt with a letter explaining I was getting a life lesson. One teacher asked what a life lesson was. I told her I was getting lessons in etiquette from adults. She kinda looked at me funny cause I was in the 6th grade. Mrs Baxter..hard as nails but she was of the older generation. Figured I had gotten a butt whupping I think. I did acquire one of them every now and again.

I would hazard that doing something like that might be hazardous to your health?

That's sort of correct, although the child will face an inability to make up the work if the absence does not meet the policy requirement for an excused absence. A family vacation does not meet that requirement. As far as the school not being the legal representative of the child, you might want to explore "in loco parentis . . . "

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

You know, I open carried for a long,long time. Every darn fall out I'd go with absolutely no covering on my shotgun or rifle. I'd hike all over creation, toting the long gun up and uncovered. It didn't attract a single bit of interest from anyone who saw me. It was called hunting. Its what we did. And I'm not so sure hunting is covered by the 2A. Its widely assumed to be, but who really cares. Now some worse information. I'm going to bet the hunters are a lot better shots than the folks lugging the plastic guns.

And then there was the time I went to a funeral with a gunbelt and a fancy engraved Colt. With me being widely known as a S&W gun nut. It was at a friends fathers funeral. The old guy had gone camping and shooting with us for a lot of years. I made friends with him early on. We had been dirt bike riding down in the National Forest. We'd gotten back and some of our yokels had taken up some beer. Others where horsing around. I was sitting in front of my tent smearing polish on my riding boots. Only took 15 minutes. That really impressed the old guy. And we'd become friends for other reasons, one being he was diabetic and at work we were going to stop carrying non-sugar candy. One of my managers had a couple of big boxes and before she tossed it, she asked me if I knew anyone. Yep, Pop Reynolds. He was the happiest man alive, thinking his warden like wife would prevent him from ever eating candy again. Now he probably had 20# of the stuff.

So when Pop passed away, I carried to his services. Some rude young girl asked "why do you need a gun at a funeral". To which Pops son answered "Because daddy would have liked it." He was a good old guy. I don't know if anyone will carry to my upcoming funeral. I don't even want a funeral.

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Dick Burg

Does it help if you call it a "Natural Right"? As in the natural right to defend yourself?

The 2nd Amendment acknowledges the pre-existing right to self defense, it doesn't grant it. " ... the right of the people to keep and bear Arms ... "

The entire Constitution was written in plain English (as opposed to a lot of scholarly gibberish legalese) because the average people of the day needed to understand it and vote on it (and how cool was that?).

It means exactly what it says and nothing more or less. And it says " ... the right to keep and bear Arms ... "

It's all the scholarly re-interpreters that have introduced confusion.

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Just Say No - To Social Media

The majority of people open carry for that very reason. It's about the way we prioritize. Since concealed isn't tactically superior or legally required, I don't prioritize concealment above more important things like effective gun/caliber, ease of access, and comfort. I carry indifferently- if it shows it shows, why should I care?

It's telling when people project negative motives on open carry, as though their method of prioritizing is better than anyone else's. I suppose I could project negative motives on the 'concealed only' people, like they conceal so as to not be noticed when they're at the playground eyeing the children, but that would be every bit as nonsensical as to suppose people open carry for attention or other negative reasons.

I went in to a pizza joint the other day to get the grand son a bite of lunch.
Unbeknownst to me, my brush-popper Carhartt jacket had ridden up over my 44 spl.
and it seems no one else noticed or cared.


Not one scream or dirty look did I receive....Even if someone had gave me the evil eye,
I wouldn't have know what it was for....other than maybe
I had jailed em sometime in the past.




.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

OK, I didn't see it in this thread so, I gotta ask, what's an MT HP?

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Freedom isn't free.

Maybe Montana Highway Patrol?

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Just Say No - To Social Media

Very well said--and I wouldnt change a word. Also-the above is exactly like it was through the 80s in my home town. It was just natural to see guns stacked or on wall pegs-in most any eating establishment--sometimes in other type stores--drug storre lunch counters-etc. I remember walking downtown in Kingsville-on Saturdays and Sundays--farmers with shotgune-others with rifles-just ambling along on their way up and down the area-nobody minded at all. Kids-like me then--loved eyeballing-talking about and often getting to fondle long-arms. My dad sometimes carried a shotgun-or his Winchester 1894. Man I really do miss those days.

The only places I cant remember seeing guns in-were the Texas Theater--and maybe-the post office. Heck, even back in the early 90s--one could still walk into Kleberg First National bank (across the street from the post office) with their rifles and such. I did many times carying my Mauser 98--which folks oft asked if I werre selling? which was nope.

Anyway-back to high school days. I still remember a few who also hunted in the mornings-during whatever seasons-bringing in Quail, Duck, Javelina SP? deer-etc-which were always hung up in the Ag building.

Im no expert but, I believe the God Given Right--was mentioned in the Constitution...

I think that was the Declaration of Independence . . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I'm a wannabe, I want to be comfortable. Slinging a rifle ain't comfortable.
In muggy Florida wearing light weight clothing is preferred. While I'd not strap on a drop holster not worrying over something showing if my shirt blows open would be nice.

^^^^^
LOL,


When I was a boy, I wanted to be like my father and his cronies.
They purty much all open carried a sidearm or two.


Yes, I was a wanna be......I wanted to be a Lawman too, and by the grace of God I made it!!!




I don't paint humanity in general with too awful broad a brush.


It just might be one of those 'wanna be good guys' that could save some officer of the law's bacon.


If two or three has me down and trying to stomp the life outta me...
A wanna be good guy would come in right handy, I do believe.


Jest sayin, and thar's coming a time before long Boys,
that a lot of folks will be carrying a sidearm and maybe a carbine to boot.


Open carry or concealed....The only 'tactical advantage' is situational awareness.


I try to look up and around once in a while.




.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"