Watching "Dr. No" today, the movie where "M" takes his Beretta away and issues him a Walther PPK .32 (7.65mm). In the scene it is definitely a PPK! But later in the film, one of the times (of several) he is disarmed by one of the bad guys, the gun he surrenders is a PP, not a PPK!

This is the same film where Bond tells the bad guy with an automatic of some sort with a "can" on it: "That's a Smith & Wesson, you've had your six." LMAO!

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Gunsmithing since 1961

I'll never surrender my PPKS,
even if it does have 50 lb double action trigger pull!

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

We've been over this several times. If you didn't also spot Bond's gun in that scene as an FN M-1910 Browning and realize that the villain's gun with a suppressor is a Colt Govt. Model/1911, you are not very sharp at ID-ing guns in movies.


They 're sometimes ridiculous. I saw an episode of Dragnet yesterday on You Tube. A suicide has a .38 by the body . Joe Friday picked up the gun, clearly a squiggle-hammered S&W M&P, and called it a Colt!


"Squiggle hammer" is my name for the Speed Hammer, used from 1948-about 1955. It is an obvious way to tell when those guns were made. I much prefer the older hammers or the later style, used on all Model Numbered guns, I think.


If the script needed changing to reflect that the prop gun was a S&W, Jack Webb had the authority to do that, and he should certainly have known an S&W when he saw one. He carried one and the company presented him with several others!


If he just didn't want to say that the gun used by the apparent suicide was an S&W, surely he could have obtained a real Colt. BTW, the case wasn't really a suicide. It was one of the better episodes of, Dragnet.


Oh; the actual gun used to kill that victim was a P-08 Luger! In my opinion, the case was probably Murder 2 or Manslaughter. A good lawyer could have gone for self defense, had the shooter not messed up and tried to deceive police. Verdict was temporary insanity, caused by actions of the deceased.


Anyway, studios often sub guns for what they should be. How many times have you seen Winchester M-92's subbing for M-1873's?

I wish there were a contest with prize money, and side betting, for IDing guns in movies. We S&W Forum members could put our money on T-Star and make a bundle!

The real thing to notice is when a movie gets it right.

the only thing I remember was Ursula in her bikini

I own all the Sean Connery Bond movies on DVD (he is the only real Bond, after all), and every time I watch Dr. No, I chuckle when Q tells Bond that the PPK has "a delivery like a brick through a plate glass window"...

I think all of the Bond actors have been anti-gun. Many years ago, Connery admitted that he owned a 12 ga. double-barrelled shotgun, but said he hated pistols.


Fleming was not the source of this. He didn't make anti-gun comments that I've found and personally had at least four handguns, all acquired after the red tape required then in the UK. Since 1997, almost no modern pistols are allowed. I think about 300 are authorized, to allow their owners to kill animals injured in traffic accidents!


Interestingly, at least one is a Walther PPK 7.65mm. I think the owner posted about it here.

"Fleming was not the source of this. He didn't make anti-gun comments that I've found and personally had at least four handguns, all acquired after the red tape required then in the UK. Since 1997, almost no modern pistols are allowed. I think about 300 are authorized, to allow their owners to kill animals injured in traffic accidents!"

I have written about this before, but back in the late 1960s I had the opportunity to buy one of Ian Fleming's personal guns, a Ruger .22 pistol. Fully documented and at a very reasonable price. I stupidly didn't buy it.

I saw something on TV about pest control exterminators being allowed to have handguns. The topic of that was the fox problem in England (apparently there are lots of foxes there), and they showed some exterminator shooting a trapped fox. He made the comment that exterminators were permitted use handguns. I couldn't tell what kind of pistol it was, but some small .22 automatic.

Not by a long shot.

Filming never follows the script.

Filming sequence is not anything like the filming script.

The dialog never follows the script. Then some of it changes during dubbing.

The editing hardly follows anything.

It's a miracle that a movie can be made at all.

That said, I love goofs as much as anybody.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Actually the script in Dr. no is pretty close to the book, except in the book, Bond is also issued a Smith and Wesson Centennial Airweight!!!

Just for fun, here's the film version. By the way, "Armourer" is "Major Boothroyd ", so named after the real gun guy who steered Fleming away from the Beretta .25....:


Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Did you read the article in, Life, where Fleming was shown holding that Ruger MK I .22?

T- Star:

Are you thinking about this issue?...



Maybe this is the photo you remember??? That's a long time back!!



Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

I don't care if you are James Bond's creator, that is a good way to shoot a hole in the wall or in someone. Get your finger off that trigger! It's always the "unloaded" ones that get you!

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Possum—The other white meat!

No, but it could have been the one. I remember it was in a leather holster and somewhat later sold at auction for a fairly breathtaking price. I found some information on that sale somewhere, don't remember where.
--------------------
This is it: James Bond Creator Ian Fleming's Ruger MKI Pistol

I remember I could have bought it for I think $400 or so at the time but I am not sure of the date. I originally said late 1960s but it could have been in the early 1970s.

The object of a movie is to make money. Also, the majority of the population know very little about firearms. So combining the two, if the scene requires a firearm, the prop room is contacted and what is on hand is used. Time and money are NOT spent to get what match the script and if it doesn't match, so what? Most of the population won't know the difference.

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Bill

Yes, that 's it!


You may also want to Search for a copy of Sports Ill., I think in March or April of 1962. Check a year or two either side of that year, too. I THINK it was Mar. 19, 1962. Article by Geoffrey Boothroyd (the real one) on Bond's guns. One of the very few pro-gun articles that rag has ever run...


Yes, I have a good memory. And I began reading James Bond books about 1959. I was still in jr. high school, I think. My first Bond book was, Dr. No.

Thanks for that link!

A little out of order, but here is a letter from Ian Fleming to Geoffrey Boothroyd, in response to Boothroyd's letter suggesting the change from the .25 Beretta to the Smith and Wesson .38 Cenntenniel Airweight (well, he doesn't spell that out in full here, but we know from later information):



I have always been fascinated by this yarn, Boothroyd was a genuine expert, thanks to Texas Star, I now own his masterful and comprehensive (at the time) book.

Best Regards,mLes

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Boothroyd wrote a number of books. The one to which I referred Les is, The Handgun, Crown Publishers, 1970.


If you find a copy, and Online booksellers sometimes have one for very reasonable cost, be careful not to drop it on your toe when it arrives.


It is big, heavy, extremely well illustrated, and very, very good.


For the record, Boothroyd felt that the S&W Model 60, being stainless, was the ideal Bond gun. But Fleming died the year before it appeared, so nothing came of that.

Thank you Texas!!!

On you advice what seems a long time ago, I found a copy of the Handgun. It now has a place of honor in the firearms section of my office bookshelves!! And you are right... It is "heavy reading" in fact, it is literally so heavy that I have to be careful when handling it, because the weight is almost too much for the binding thread, and it threatens to split the spine from its own weight.

Anyone reading this... I heartily recommend finding a copy on Abebooks, and adding to your library.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Les-


I don't own a copy of that, Life issue. I read it at my mother's home when it came out in, I think, 1962. I THINK I recall a photo of the author with a Colt New Service .45 or have seen it elsewhere.


Because so much else about Bond reflected his creator, the Sea Island shirts, the shoes, the Rolex watch (Explorer I model), fondness for scrambled eggs, certain wines, etc., I wonder if that Colt NS was the "long-barreled .45 Colt" that Bond kept under the dash of his Bentley.


Considering that these books ran from 1953-1965, the concept doesn't sound too far out. SOE and MI-6 would have access to these guns, sent via American donors soon after Dunkirk. Special ops teams would be more likely to have them than would regular troops.


But a Colt Govt. Model seems more likely and was known to be the standard handgun for Commando regiments after Churchill insisted on the Colt for their use. That also jived with them using the Thompson SMG well after most units of the British Army replaced the Tommy with the Sten.


As I read the novels, I "see" Bond using either a postwar .45 auto, newly bought, or maybe a National Match .45 donated in 1940 by an American household. I had a prewar Super .38 Match with fixed sights and the workmanship and honed action were wonderful. The same in .45 would be a splendid gun for Bond. Great Britain did buy most of what guns Colt had on hand about April, 1940 and that included some Match grade .45 autos. I do think the gun would have fixed sights, but that was a regular option. Basically, the Match grade was a normal Govt. Model, but with hand-fitted parts and a honed action that is incredibly smooth. I sometimes got out my .38 Super Match and cycled the slide just to feel the smoothness.

And an automatic just seems more likely.


I guess we'll never know. But I'm pretty sure the long-barreled .22 pistol used by a girl in one short story was a Ruger MK I.


This is a good topic. I learned that the Ruger was bought from Cogswell & Harrison in London in June, 1962 and that Fleming kept his wartime Browning .25 and carried it to and from London and his home in Jamaica.


BTW, the four-inch Colt Official Police .38 with which he posed for some book cover pics was a gift from OSS general Wild Bill Donovan. Fleming came from a "good" family and had extensive social contacts within the Allied intelligence community.


I wonder if he taped the handle of the Browning like Bond did his .25 Beretta. Probably not, as the Browning had no grip safety to deactivate and taping might interfere with the safety.


The Beretta in the movie was a M-34 or 35 in .32 or .380. The one Bond would have carried was a Model 418, much smaller. It couldn't have been the Model 950, as he said in a book that he'd carried it for 15 years (10 years in the movie clip above).


An OSS agent in Spain, Aline, Countess of Ramonones (sp?) , really did carry a .25 Beretta and killed a knife-wielding gypsy with it. See her autobiography, The Spy Wore Red.
This lady was born American, but married into the Spanish nobility. After WWII, she continued as a CIA agent, with her husband's knowledge. (Spain is a NATO member.)

In the book From Russia with Love, Bond was almost killed when the suppressor on his Beretta snagged on his holster. He got the PPK in the next book though I can't remember which one it was.

The next book was, Dr. No.



Yes, that's where to read the scene depicted in the movie clip above.

Well, I'm still frittering away time digging stuff out of the 'net, nit really what I'm looking for right now, but here are some photos of Ian Fleming that you guys may enjoy:

With Geoffrey Boothroyd, the real life firearms expert, and mentor to Fleming on firearms lore, as well as being immortalized as "Major Boothroyd", the "Armourer" in the books, a character who eventually became "Q" in the later movies:



Here he is with what I believe to be one of his own personal firearms, a Colt, and what appears to be his famous Rolex, which he also included in the books:



Here's that Ruger again:



Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

les-


That 's just super, Professor! This is one of the best Internet threads on the subject.


The Colt Official Police .38 in one pic is the one I said was a gift from Wild Bill Donovan. But the watch is not the right Rolex. A moderator here sent me a series of pics of Fleming and his Explorer I has the normal stainless bracelet. He was also painted (portrait) while wearing that watch and one photo showed him at his portable typewriter at his desk at Goldeneye. His watch was easily identified as a standard Explorer I. I used to own one, and it was very familiar. And I've seen a close-up picture of Fleming's very Rolex. It's def. an Explorer I, the same model that ascended Mt. Everest in 1953.


BTW, I got a Rolex expert to adjust my watch until it lost just 30 seconds a week. Every other week, I'd set it ahead one minute. But the crystal was some sort of acrylic, not mineral glass or sapphire crystal. It scratched pretty easily and I had to get it polished out a time or two.


I finally gave up on the Rolex after learning that a routine cleaning would cost several hundred dollars. I sold it for about what I'd paid and and bought a TAG-Heuer Sports 100 series watch. It has a quartz movement, more accurate than the Rolex and cheaper to maintain.


But if I ever get rich, I'll buy another Rolex. I like the aura/fame of the brand and knowing that so many celebrities have owned them.


Fleming died before quartz watches arrived. I wonder how he'd have viewed them.


P.S. In the photo of Fleming holding the gun wrong, over his forearm, the gun is Boothroyd's Ruger Super Blackhawk. The two men appeared on a TV show and that gun was used in a mock gunfight. The gun on the hardback edition of, From Russia, With Love is Boothroyd's modified S&W .38-200, with a cut-out trigger guard like the Fitz Colts had. Boothroyd admitted in a letter to me that he later regretted having the trigger guard cut. His gun was loaned to Fleming and was painted by Richard Chopping.


I think Boothroyd owned about 100 guns. And he knew both antique and modern guns very well.


Oh: you have a couple of times called the book character Capt. Boothroyd. His rank was actually Major. His job was Armourer and he may not be the man also called Q, probably for Quartermaster. Certainly, the same actor didn't play both roles. Neither looked like the real Boothroyd.

T-Star, you are absolutely correct. Mea Culpa!! I don't have my books here with me, and haven't read the stories for awhile. It is Major Boothroyd, and of course Flemimg uses the British spelling of Armourer!! I had a feeling I had gone wrong somewhere. I am going to go back and edit my posts.

Great information on the Blackhawk and the Chopping illustration. I have a set of replica editions of the original books, complete with the dust jackets. They came in individual slip covers, and are exact replicas except printed on more modern acid free paper, which lasts longer. I have the cover that you are describing in that set. (Well, a copy, anyway). Some of the original first editions in good condition sell well into the five figure price range at auction.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Well, Texas Star, pardon my editing your quote, but I wanted to address the idea of the "Long barreled .45 Colt", and I think that somewhere it was also described as the "Army Model", as well.

I have to confess that I used to believe that this is what Fleming was referring to...which just so happens to be my own personal revolver, but would have been easy for British Government sources to have aquired:



Here is where I figured the "Army" connotation came from:



Of course, as gun guys, we know that the Colt "Army Special" is the model which later became the "Official Police". But that wouldn't have meant that the above gun couldn't have met the description given by Fleming!!

Well, that's what I thought until I was reading one of the short stories, forget which one right now, but Bond is using his .45 Colt, and he "thumbed down the safety", or words to that effect. Fleming does not make the usual mistakes that many writers do of equipping their revolvers with safeties. (Although there are a few revolvers that have been thus equipped, including Smith and Wesson...but I digress). Anyhow... I am thinking that around the time that these stories were being written, Colt had just introduced the "Commander", a "short barreled" .45 Colt, so.... Seems to me that the standard model 1911 "Army" .45 Colt could be referred to as a "long barreled" model!!!

That would explain everything, and coincides with your reasoning, and is better than one internet theory which pictures a standard 1911 with a "long" barrel, way long, sticking out of the barrel bushing. That just doesn't seem likely.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Except for the first few movies, the guns of the movies are not really representative of the guns that Fleming populated the books with. Nevertheless, here is a rather depressing history of what happened to many of the prop guns used in the movies.

The Side Arms of James Bond, 007: From The Walther PPK to the P99

Best regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Good heavens!! With all of the James Bond research, I thought I'd reread the series again. A few years ago I bought a complete series of exact replicas of the Jonathan Cape first editions. Each is a perfect copy, including the dust jackets. In addition, each of the 14 volumes is housed in a sturdy slip case with a replica of the dust jacket reproduced on it. Well, I stopped by the house and picked up the first two volumes, Casino Royale, and Live and Let Die. I had seen recently where real first editions of James Bond were going for outrageous prices, so I thought I'd see if these were worth anything.

Here's a slightly fuzzy picture of the whole set:



To my amazement, this set of replicas, not the real thing, are going for over $2,000.00 to well over $4,000,00.

Like my guns, which I buy to shoot, not as investments, I buy my books to read, not resell for a profit, but this is just crazy.

Edit: I guess that that price would be a real bargain, though, compared to a real first edition of the first book in the series, which I see that Abebooks has only one example for sale right now, and that is going for $34,765.00 (plus shipping). Just for the one book.

BTW... I also picked up my copy of John Pearson's excellent biography of Fleming, "The Life of Ian Fleming".

Expect some more Bondania soon.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

I know in the books Bond usually carried a Beretta .25, but I find it funny in film Dr. No the Beretta he is forced to give up is a 1934. The Beretta 1934 was typcially a .380, whereas the PPK he was given was a .32 ACP. Sounds like downgrade!

In the Pierce Bronsan films, Bond switched to a full-size P99. But now Bond is backing using the PPK. I think they overlook the perfect Walther for James Bond, the P99 Compact. Not as big as the standard P99, but much more firepower than the old PPK.

I still can't believe the fixation on guns with Ursula in the movie

The guns have aged better.
Geoff
Who prefers Matt Helm by Donald Hamilton.

Only because since fox hunting has been banned in the UK the fox population has not only exploded but the animals are coming into urban areas to scrounge for food.

Funny how the greenies never even take the results of banning any type of hunting into consideration when they protest so much.

Honeychile Ryder (Ursula Andress) didn't carry a gun. We'll have to discuss her in a knife thread.



Seriously, I did try to ID her knife, but it was probably just a cheap cork-handled dive knife, not a Puma or a Randall Model 16.


And in view of Honey 's backstory, that was appropriate. The girl had very little income, all from selling collectible sea shells.


Read the book for her complete story.


There is a pic on the Net with some other chick dressed like Honey, in a white bikini, with a knife worn on a wide white web belt. But the knife looks more like a white-handled Buck, although the sheath, with two retaining straps, does not bear out the Buck theory. The Buck dive knife (Nemo) was larger and had a quite different sheath. It also was not yet on the market when the film was made.


You'll know if you found the right pic if the chick looks like an obvious play on the Honey Ryder theme and has her hands on her head. Not sure if it's okay for posting here, via the Rules.


Back to Ursula. She was/is Swiss. She, Bo Derek, and Linda Evans were all married to John Derek, who took excellent photos of all. You can see many on the Net. But they definitely exceed board standards.

Sure. Same thing happened in California when they banned cougar hunting. And look what happened after alligator hunting was banned!

John Derek had great, albeit limited taste.
Helluva resemblance between those 3 gals.

Like the late great Johnny Carson, the man traded in on new models regularly.

Geoff
Who will leave this thread right there.