|
|
03-30-2017, 01:33 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Triad Area North Carolina
Posts: 1,613
Likes: 1,184
Liked 2,027 Times in 826 Posts
|
|
How often do you replace (brand new) your everyday carry mag?
Science tells us that a fully depressed mag spring will lose it elasticity over a number of years. So it makes sense (i think ??) that if you have a flush mag with one in the chamber (added pressure on mag spring) in your EDC and it's been there forever you may want to purchase a new one.
Any scientist here on the forum that can comment on this?????
__________________
Hipcocked45
|
03-30-2017, 01:40 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Outside Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 16,601
Likes: 7,342
Liked 17,200 Times in 7,303 Posts
|
|
Actually science tells us that a spring in USE will loose elasticity over a number of years. A compressed spring does not. (Assuming it's a quality made spring from a know manufacturer with a history of good quality)
My carry mag has been continuously loaded since 2004ish.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Last edited by Arik; 03-30-2017 at 01:41 PM.
|
The Following 24 Users Like Post:
|
bearfoot, bearman49709, dben002, diamonback68, djt17, dusty3030, Evil Dog, Fishbread, GaryS, Hunter8282, jaymoore, JH1951, Kanewpadle, Kinman, kthom, Mike, SC Hunter, Philadelphia Patriot, Ranger514, Rpg, Rustyt1953, SammyJoe, shouldazagged, Smoke, Watchdog |
03-30-2017, 02:56 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,111
Likes: 2,876
Liked 2,506 Times in 1,281 Posts
|
|
I never have replaced any carry on
__________________
Spin The Wheel
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-30-2017, 03:04 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Santo las nubes, Florida
Posts: 9,004
Likes: 9,242
Liked 14,710 Times in 4,706 Posts
|
|
I have 5 mags for my 6906. I shoot the 12 rds (11+1) twice a year and load another mag with 12, chambering the 1st rd. So each mag spends 6 mos out of 2 1/2 years in the gun with 1 rd less than capacity. Been working 100% since 1994. Joe
__________________
Wisdom chases me; I'm faster
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-30-2017, 03:07 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: A Burb of the Burgh
Posts: 14,788
Likes: 1,667
Liked 19,897 Times in 8,797 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik
Actually science tells us that a spring in USE will loose elasticity over a number of years. A compressed spring does not. (Assuming it's a quality made spring from a know manufacturer with a history of good quality)
My carry mag has been continuously loaded since 2004ish.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
|
Ditto... number of threads on this subject.... and anecdotal stories of magazines loaded for 20 years- WWII and even IIRC WWI or shortly after........ that still functioned...........
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-30-2017, 03:07 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 713
Likes: 129
Liked 719 Times in 327 Posts
|
|
I've got an old Ruger P91DC that has had the mag fully loaded since 1992 and it still runs 100%. Don't see it being a problem.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-30-2017, 03:09 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Back in WI
Posts: 2,034
Likes: 624
Liked 1,845 Times in 837 Posts
|
|
I have multiple mags for my Shield, and i use each about the same in range trips (at minimum its monthly) and practice to ensure they all are consistent and work with no issues. I figure when i'm at the point of carrying, then occasionally i'll run thru the mag w/ the SD rounds while at the range which allows me to get some add'l practice in and rotate the mag and ammo as well.
At this point I don't see me having one designated carry mag
|
03-30-2017, 04:07 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 11,364
Likes: 9,381
Liked 17,297 Times in 6,648 Posts
|
|
Never. Although I have replaced springs. Actually I disassemble, clean, inspect, and put new springs in any used magazines I acquire.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-30-2017, 09:02 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North Texas
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 2,831
Liked 1,536 Times in 541 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002
.......that if you have a flush mag with one in the chamber (added pressure on mag spring) in your EDC......
|
How does having one in the chamber add pressure to the mag spring?
|
03-30-2017, 09:21 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Outside Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 16,601
Likes: 7,342
Liked 17,200 Times in 7,303 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by zonker5
How does having one in the chamber add pressure to the mag spring?
|
I was kinda lost on that too
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-30-2017, 09:40 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,484
Likes: 3,220
Liked 7,880 Times in 2,833 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002
Science tells us that a fully depressed mag spring will lose it elasticity over a number of years.
|
Cite please?
__________________
Retired Career Security Guard
|
03-30-2017, 09:49 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Triad Area North Carolina
Posts: 1,613
Likes: 1,184
Liked 2,027 Times in 826 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik
I was kinda lost on that too
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
|
My perception...no tech basis for comment..based on the fact of loading a full mag and the pressure to seat mag..then racking one in chamber and removing mag adding one back to mag and reloading mag..seems to require more pressure to seat mag after putting one in chamber..
__________________
Hipcocked45
|
03-30-2017, 09:54 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: High Desert, Nevada
Posts: 120
Likes: 291
Liked 116 Times in 65 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002
... you may want to purchase a new one.
Any scientist here on the forum that can comment on this?????
|
I'll bite. I front end load the magazine purchases w/ the EDC.
My current EDC came w/ one 6-round magazine w/ an extended grip base plate. I ordered two 7-round flush mount mags w/ the pistol. After a successful break in period, I ordered two flush mount 6-rounders specifically for concealed carry.
I carry the pistol w/ 1 round chambered & 6 in the low profile mag. I carry one 7-rounder in a mag pouch. I store the "spare" 6 & 7-rounder empty, switching them after shooting at the range -- about every two weeks. I mainly use the original 6-rounder w/ extension for dry fire practice.
I load & fire all the magazines while target shooting, cleaning them with compressed air, a cloth & nylon brush between reloads. I always strip & clean new magazines but take apart used mags only after considerable cycles or massive dust exposure.
|
03-30-2017, 09:58 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Triad Area North Carolina
Posts: 1,613
Likes: 1,184
Liked 2,027 Times in 826 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke
Cite please?
|
Youtube..fully loaded mags stored for 5 years..vs not loaded for 5 years..about 12 mags in all..3 different guns...6 or 8 loaded for 5 years and 6 or 4 not....all 5 year springs removed and compared with non 5 year springs of same gun and cal....all 5 year loaded springs were shorter than the non loaded springs and a few were mis shaped....
__________________
Hipcocked45
|
03-30-2017, 10:01 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,484
Likes: 3,220
Liked 7,880 Times in 2,833 Posts
|
|
Here's a post from THR from an Engineer named Walt Sherill. It's typical of his posts but I would suggest you go to THR and search Walt SheriLL/ Springs and sit back and read.
Quote:
The Wolff Springs website says words to this effect:
1) Springs that are compressed to their design limits will wear/die more quickly than springs that aren't.
2) They recommend downloading a hi-cap mag a round or two (to avoid that design limit.)
They note that 7-round 1911 mags and similar non-hi-caps can be kept loaded fully for years without problems. But that hi-cap mags (which generally use the same mag tube but must compress the springs more to fit the extra rounds in) don't survive as long.
I've been lead to believe that cycling the springs will slowly (very slowly) degrade them -- but unless that cycling pushes the spring to extremes, its not a big deal. They'll probably outlast the gun (or in the case of rocker valves, the car engine.)
Letting the mag spring rest without any rounds (i.e., unloaded) doesn't improve a thing. Rotating springs/mags doesn't improve a thing -- it just delays the wear by spreading it over a larger number of mags.
Guys who participate here who shoot air guns which rely on springs will tell you that leaving a spring fully compressed will kill it quickly. Its a fact of the air gun world.
So whether a mag will degrade when fully loaded depends on its design... and just because its a factory hi-cap doesn't mean it WON'T...
Most of my hi-cap are physically identical to my 10-round mags; the difference is the followers and springs. The spring in the hi-cap must work harder. Which spring do you think will last longer? I know, from experience, that the 10-rounders are going to outlast me.
|
__________________
Retired Career Security Guard
Last edited by Smoke; 03-30-2017 at 10:04 PM.
|
03-30-2017, 10:03 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,484
Likes: 3,220
Liked 7,880 Times in 2,833 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002
Youtube...
|
And, you lost me right there
__________________
Retired Career Security Guard
|
03-30-2017, 10:07 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,484
Likes: 3,220
Liked 7,880 Times in 2,833 Posts
|
|
My carry magazines get randomly rotated every time I go to the range but they essentially stay loaded for years at a time. I have yet to have one fail on me
__________________
Retired Career Security Guard
|
03-30-2017, 10:14 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Triad Area North Carolina
Posts: 1,613
Likes: 1,184
Liked 2,027 Times in 826 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke
My carry magazines get randomly rotated every time I go to the range but they essentially stay loaded for years at a time. I have yet to have one fail on me
|
To understand why i asked the original question look at a youtube vid by shadetree armor...you will know which one by the pic of 12 mags lined up on a chart.....
__________________
Hipcocked45
|
03-30-2017, 10:24 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Spokantucky
Posts: 4,131
Likes: 10,413
Liked 6,945 Times in 2,355 Posts
|
|
All of my carry mags are the original equipment, when I go to the range I use a "range" mag. One of my odd personal habits is to replace the ammunition in all loaded weapons on my birthday, new ammunition every year, regardless. I am also anal about cleaning, I clean all firearms after use...unless I am shooting again the next day, then they are only wiped clean. I've always been very careful about over lubrication around magazines or in cylinders where ammunition is going to be sitting for any length of time, lightly oiled is the rule, no synthetics.
|
03-30-2017, 10:44 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Triad Area North Carolina
Posts: 1,613
Likes: 1,184
Liked 2,027 Times in 826 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke
Just a thought but maybe post it in this thread so every one can look at it.
|
I would but i am on a smartphone and the vid has no addressvshowing on my phone and i really dont know how to get it here......
__________________
Hipcocked45
|
03-30-2017, 10:47 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wrong side of Washington
Posts: 10,188
Likes: 13,015
Liked 17,127 Times in 5,143 Posts
|
|
Springs have been around for centuries. And today's springs are better than ever. Everywhere you look something has a spring in it.
They wear out or break due to repeated use. Also known as metal fatigue. You would be hard pressed to wear out a quality magazine with routine use.
All of my carry magazines sit fully loaded. Never a problem. Never worried about it.
__________________
Life Is A Gift. Defend it!
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-30-2017, 10:48 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wrong side of Washington
Posts: 10,188
Likes: 13,015
Liked 17,127 Times in 5,143 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002
I would but i am on a smartphone and the vid has no addressvshowing on my phone and i really dont know how to get it here......
|
So... You're not as smart as your smart phone?
WELCOME TO THE CLUB!!
__________________
Life Is A Gift. Defend it!
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-30-2017, 10:49 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Tulsa, OK area
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 1,461
Liked 7,056 Times in 1,581 Posts
|
|
Once every hundred years, whether it needs it or not.
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-30-2017, 11:24 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,484
Likes: 3,220
Liked 7,880 Times in 2,833 Posts
|
|
__________________
Retired Career Security Guard
|
03-31-2017, 12:00 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 816
Likes: 1,123
Liked 1,549 Times in 556 Posts
|
|
Re: "Wolff Springs Website..."
"Rocker valves..."??? Never have seen such a thing on the couple of hundred engines I've rebuilt. Lotsa valve springs and rocker arms, though. Maybe UFO technology? I'll have to check with my buddies at Area 51...
ANY spring will eventually lose it's engineered specs. That being said, I won't lose any sleep over swapping out mags on any specified date. I do it when I think of it, maybe every six months to a year. Thumb the rounds out, inspect the loads and stuff them back in a "rested" unit. Good to go!!!
Just thought of something: I hope none of this gets everyone worrying about the springs in their revolvers. Things could get panicky in a hurry...
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-31-2017, 12:44 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,484
Likes: 3,220
Liked 7,880 Times in 2,833 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcitableBoy
Re: "Wolff Springs Website..."
"Rocker valves..."??? Never have seen such a thing on the couple of hundred engines I've rebuilt. Lotsa valve springs and rocker arms, though.
|
Bet you've never had a typo either
__________________
Retired Career Security Guard
|
03-31-2017, 02:26 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: US of A
Posts: 2,210
Likes: 7,002
Liked 2,483 Times in 1,147 Posts
|
|
Would have to guess it has more to do with the alloy, quality and processing of the spring than anything.
I've 1911 mags that are 100 years old which work fine. As well as 1980's vintage Glock mags. But whilst I was working at Glock in the late '80s, they made several changes to their mag springs as some were failing in a year or two. (All I remember at this point is there were "copper washed" springs, "dark" springs and "bright" springs.)
Oldest semi-auto mags I have are from the early 1900s: Colt .38 ACP 1902 and some .38 ACP 1903s. With a Military Model .38 ACP mag thrown in. They all still work just fine!
Same for the various WWII Inglis 9mm 13 rd mags.
BTW, I can't recall ever having a STEN, M3 or MP-40 mag spring go bad, and they're all very high capacity.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-31-2017, 09:20 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Western NC
Posts: 3,709
Likes: 2,985
Liked 6,593 Times in 1,835 Posts
|
|
It's a sample of exactly one, which is not a statistical proof of probability. But this gun was kept loaded in a car for 12 years by me, no lube or mag changes, worked fine.
1994 SW9V fired after being loaded for 12 years
I remember Bob Bell, who used to write the optics column for Gun Digest fired a magazine of .45 ACP that had been loaded since he brought it back from Europe after WWII on (I think) the 50th anniversary of the end of the war, and had no problems.
It obviously never hurts to take care of your equipment, but I do think the modern trend is to overthink a lot of things. That's never been a problem for me.
|
03-31-2017, 02:09 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 816
Likes: 1,123
Liked 1,549 Times in 556 Posts
|
|
SMOKE:
Occasional brain fade, but I usually proof read.
|
03-31-2017, 03:20 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 736
Likes: 2,823
Liked 518 Times in 278 Posts
|
|
exactly what he said.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS
Never. Although I have replaced springs. Actually I disassemble, clean, inspect, and put new springs in any used magazines I acquire.
|
exactly what he said.....I bought some used hi caps that were 25 years old. cleaned them up and put fresh wolff springs in them.they will last me another 25 years of use. i wouldn't be worried about any mag springs wearing out in modern firearms.
__________________
S&W BG380, S&W 915 9mm
|
03-31-2017, 07:42 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 14,710
Likes: 2,926
Liked 17,102 Times in 6,271 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik
Actually science tells us that a spring in USE will loose elasticity over a number of years. A compressed spring does not.
|
We see lots of comments like this where people use the term "science" or "physics" but never actually do the science or even read the articles published by scientists. In fact, science tells us the exact opposite of what you just said.
Springs held compressed will indeed lose power over time. This has been proven many time. I did my own test that showed just that. Also, I've worked in a calibration lab where we calibrated torque wrenches and could measure exactly how much power a compressed spring from a torque wrench lost over a specific time.
The video Smoke posted is a decent example of a reasonable test.
The question is not will they lose power, but how much power do they lose? Is that loss enough to affect function? There are multiple examples showing that in most cases it is not enough to reduce the function.
So, leave your mags full. Leave the hammer cocked. The gun will work fine if otherwise properly maintained.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-31-2017, 08:57 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,965
Likes: 3,954
Liked 2,804 Times in 998 Posts
|
|
I have had the same three colt 8 round stainless mags loaded for almost 20 years. I shot them last week, and reloaded them. No telling when I will shoot them again
|
04-01-2017, 01:06 AM
|
Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 19,336
Likes: 53,737
Liked 38,387 Times in 11,802 Posts
|
|
Revolver. No wuckers.
But when I owned and carried automatics I heard a lot of conflicting opinions on this. It's been a number of years, but I think I compromised by loading magazines one round light. I wouldn't do that today. I'll be dead and gone before a mag spring would have time to think about weakening, if that's even a problem.
__________________
Oh well, what the hell.
|
04-01-2017, 02:21 AM
|
|
US Veteran Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,580
Likes: 13,500
Liked 6,743 Times in 2,526 Posts
|
|
I have two 45 magazines that are left over from when I shot competition in the late 1950s. They've each had at least 10,000 rounds run through them and they each funcion peerfectly.
|
04-01-2017, 11:11 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 7,348
Likes: 7,536
Liked 5,590 Times in 2,562 Posts
|
|
What does science tell me about the springs in my couch?
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-01-2017, 11:20 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Tulsa, OK area
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 1,461
Liked 7,056 Times in 1,581 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Model520Fan
What does science tell me about the springs in my couch?
|
You need to lose some weight?
/ducks
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-03-2017, 09:09 AM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 7,348
Likes: 7,536
Liked 5,590 Times in 2,562 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom K
You need to lose some weight?
/ducks
|
Correct. Now that I have lost some weight, my couch works a little better. Still not optimum, whatever exactly that is. However, changing out the springs is more trouble than it's worth. Much easier to maintain mags with decent springs.
BTW, I have been playing with guns for over fifty years, and have had no need to replace even ONE mag spring, ever, of the many dozens that I have owned. I did once replace a trigger spring on an FN LAR with a cut-down rebound slide spring from an S&W, but that was because the stock spring was unnecessarily strong for its function on a semi-auto (may have been unnecessarily strong, altogether, but I don't know much about that).
|
04-03-2017, 09:29 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In The Woods Of S.C.
Posts: 8,918
Likes: 14,064
Liked 13,767 Times in 4,990 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002
Science tells us that a fully depressed mag spring will lose it elasticity over a number of years. So it makes sense (i think ??) that if you have a flush mag with one in the chamber (added pressure on mag spring) in your EDC and it's been there forever you may want to purchase a new one.
Any scientist here on the forum that can comment on this?????
|
People have shot mags that were loaded in WW2 and they worked fine.....Compression or decompression does not kill a spring.....constant(many times) compression.decompression is what kills a spring......I am using mags from the 50's and WW2 that still work fine......So its a non issue...........
__________________
S&W Accumulator
|
04-03-2017, 09:56 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 17,817
Likes: 7,852
Liked 25,737 Times in 8,695 Posts
|
|
While it is often written about in Gun-rags, I can not say that I've personally experienced Spring fatigue. When my Dad passed away 6 years ago I found a half dozen or so loaded WWll vintage Gov't issue 1911 Mag's fully loaded with vintage Military .45 acp hard ball rounds. I can not state with exact certainty how long they were loaded but would bet at least 60 years or so. I brought them to the Range 6 years ago and shot them all out - NO FTF, NO hick-ups, and the Mag springs were like they were made yesterday. In actuality, they felt much stronger than my commercial Colt springs that came with my Gold Cup & Gov't model. I also own many ORIGINAL Colt magazines for Model M 1903's 1908's (.25acp, .32acp, .380 acp) that are almost 100 years old. The original springs work perfectly!
Just my personal experience and can not state that every single mag spring will exhibit similar properties - so do what your common sense tells you.
|
04-03-2017, 11:23 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,661
Likes: 7,937
Liked 20,623 Times in 5,958 Posts
|
|
The recoil springs in my autoloaders cycle a ton more than the mag springs do.
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|