owned a 98 outback. good little car but it needed the head gasket repair. now looking to get an other one , in the year range 2002-2008 .
1 just when did the head gasket bug-a-boo go away ?
2 when did subaru start using the variable transmission & is it trouble prone.
?
3 how long lived is the 2.5 4 cyl. motor ? a lot of the ones , so far , that i am looking at have 120,00-180,000 miles .
4 is the six cyl. motor a good option in a subaru ? gas mileage ?

thanks for the info !

The bug-a-boo was really nothing. Change the head gasket every 100k and you're good.

The 2.5 is old and plenty of them out there with 300k miles and the bug-a-boo head gasket

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Timing chains?
I thought that was the Subaru- Boo- Boo.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

Four years ago, I bought a new 2013 Outback with the 2.5 liter engine and the continuously variable transmission. It's gone nearly 40,000 miles with no problems at all.

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What, me worry?

My wife has a 2007 Forrester w/ the 2.5 liter four banger. Currently has over 140k miles on it. No problems, runs like a top.

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You're shy a few manners.

I know a number of old Subies with >200K on them still running strong. The good news about those head gasket issues in the past was they leaked OUT, rather than into the oil. You could go a long time with one leaking a little if you kept up on coolant. Subaru even had a branded additive that would plug them if you caught them early. I still have a few bottles around. Wife has a 4 cyl. CrossTrek XV, 2014 that she loves. It's a hoot to drive.

And yeah, they're timing belts, not chains. Not particularly cheap to replace and critical. Last one I had done on the kid's 2000 Outback about 4 years ago cost nearly a grand as I recall.

I have a 2011 outback with the 3.6L horizontally opposed six cylinder. My only gripe is that it burns a lot of oil -- usually 1.5 - 2 quarts every 6,000 miles. It's a known issue with those early 3.6L engines. As long as I keep a close eye on the oil level and check it frequently, all is okay. I feel that level of oil consumption is unacceptable on a 2011 vehicle. It has approximately 130,000 miles.

The last few years the 2.5 went back to a timing chain. I think some '13/14 models had issues with the oil rings causing excessive oil consumption.

I knew they were belts.
If they were chains, you probably wouldn't have to replace them.
I've never had one, but I have a kid who has owned several.
And several friends who have them.
There are a bunch of them all over the Mountain West.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

Really, that is not all that bad, even for a new engine, let alone a 5+ year old one. IIRC, Ford had a lot of disgruntled owners when the factory said using a quart every 700 miles was acceptable on new / newish Ford engines. Yours is way way better than that.

A side note:
I have read that Subarus with AWD are very popular in Alaska. I do believe those folks know something about winter driving!

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You're shy a few manners.

I have to wonder if the head gasket problems were related to 'burping' the coolant system, when changing/draining coolant. The EJ20 engines are a bit tricky that way...

AFA timing belts--read up on Subaru forums, it's not that tough. I did mine straight from forum reading, on my own, and had no problems. You can find kits with all sprockets & idlers (less cam wheels), belt, water pump and gaskets for around $450, last time I changed mine (done it twice, over 210K now).

I'm over 210K on EJ20. It leaked pretty bad from passenger side valve cover gaskets--got the kit from Rock for fifty or seventy five bucks, and did both sides (the passenger side goes out earlier from turbo up pipe heat), easy job.

The only other leak I had was around the oil filter. It seeped down around outside of filter case and blew back to various areas of the engine, so it was a little tricky to figure out. The culprit was a hardened O-ring on the filter pipe--the piece the oil filter threads on to. Was able to drop cross pipe and finagle the oil cooler out of the way and change the O-ring, without dumping coolant. Again, pretty easy once I got into it. The Subaru forums are very helpful.

15 Forester with the variable transmission and 2.5 engine. 58K problem free miles. You have to put gas in it and tires on it, change fluids when directed. The biggest trouble with the variable speed trans is you can't judge your speed by the sound. Far too often we look down to find we are going 90 mph as smooth as can be.

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Front sight and squeeze

Had over 280,000 on my 98 outback before the 93 year old lady down the street turned into the wrong driveway and didn't stop. Changed the head gasket and timing belt at 150000 and was still running strong when I sent it to the scrap yard.

Rob

My wife has a 2012 Forester with a 2.5 in it. She will keep the car forever. We have it serviced every 6,000 miles and she has had no problems with it.

I, on the other hand, have had a 2014, 2015 and 2016 Forester Touring 2.5i. I don't keep mine long enough to go out of warranty so don't really worry about it. I've had my 2016 since Jan 2016 and am about to go over 9,000 miles.

Love the Foresters.

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

I owned Subarus from 1981 until a 2002 Model that I sold last year. I think once Subarus were made in USA the quality went down.

Another thing to be aware of. In 2001 Subaru changed the engine design from a non-interefence engine to an interference engine. If a timing belt breaks (or timing belt pulley seizes) on a non interference engine - no harm/no foul - the engine just quits. On the interference design if the same happens the pistons and valves crash together causing major damage about $2,000+ for valve job.

I had a pulley seize up and caused this. Always have the pulleys and belt tensioner changed out when changing timing belt. Subaru won't tell you this. I went around and around with the dealer and finally got them to reduce my repair bill to $1,200.

Won't buy another Subaru after that. Now own Toyotas!

There's no way that I'd agree with Ford that consuming a quart every 700 miles is within acceptable tolerances.

The issue with mine isn't a leak. It is blowing by the rings. Threads on Subaru forums talk of poorly designed rings on the early 3.6 six cylinders. Subaru eventually corrected the problem on newer vehicles.

My 2016 Forester Touring 2.5 is great so far. Its my first Subaru after a run of Toyota's, and I'm very happy with it. The only thing that I find hard to adjust to is how long it takes for the transmission to catch up to the engine RPM when I accelerate quickly.

A lot of Ford owners agree with you there, my friend!

I remember an episode of Motor Week (PBS show) where Pat Goss (super mechanic?) stated that he staunchly agreed with Ford on the "a Quart of Oil every 700 miles in a New Engine is Fine and Dandy" issue. After I saw that, he lost all credibility with me.

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You're shy a few manners.

...I have a 2003 Baja with 225,000 miles...changed the timing belt at 133,000...need to do it again in about 13,000 miles...my biggest beef with the car is the rear suspension...when it wears out the rear end starts to steer itself...absolutely terrifying and dangerous on an icy road...I rebuilt the suspension myself...cost $1400 for the parts...have also changed the clutch...driveshaft...all four wheel bearings...and the ignition coil...it uses some oil now...but still has good power...and has been my favorite car...other than that rear suspension which was designed with unnecessary complexity...

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A Country Boy Can Survive

My wife has an '07 Outback with the 5 speed, and about 130K. It does well, but that platform is a bit too small for my comfort, and it needs another gear. We went to Woodland CA (why yes, it was RottsOfFriends, and yes, I do recommend them) last summer to adopt a dog, and needed to take her car for the extra room for the dogs (Mya on the S/B trip, Mya and Ted on the way back). My legs and feet hurt afterwards from the smaller passenger area, and the noise from the higher rpms bugged me a bit. We drove each way straight through (it's only 700 miles, about 12 hours).

I have an '11 Legacy with the 6 speed, and get about 5-6 MPG better than hers (and about 900 rpm less) on the highway. It is the first car I have driven in which I did not have to put the seat all the way back (and in fact can't do that and push the clutch all the way in). I prefer sedans for the trunk, so that I have stuff out of sight on trips, etc. At 144K I see no sign of oil burning or other problems.

I expect to go roughly another 5 years, and if I had to trade tomorrow I would get an Impreza, even though they don't have the 6 speed and would be stuck with the variable. My goal is to stop using a car on trips and get a pickup based class C RV for the short term until we can go with a Super C (similar to a class A, but built on a semi-tractor).

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NHI, 10-8.

I just did mine on a 2006 Outback 2.5i MT at 44K miles due to age not miles. I planned to only replace the belt but once I opened it up I found a bad idler pulley - parts wholesale from the dealer were $60 for the belt and $55 for the pulley. The job is easy on subarus +1 on reading the forums.

Some Toyota engines are interference also. Be aware of the service life of the belt and you will generally be okay.

Yeah, just replace all the pulleys/idlers, and water pump, "while you're in there."

I made a version of the Subaru special tool to hold the driver's side cam wheels from snapping around, from two metric hex head bolts (M8? M10? CRS), a doubled up strip of plumber's tape, and six nuts. One nut under each bolt head (aligned to head), tape, and double-nut the bolt shaft on other side of tape.

Push the bolt heads into center of camwheels and tighten the doubled nuts...holds the camwheels steady but pulls straight out when you're done (don't bump it out, while stringing belt).

Does it have composite endlinks on rear sway? Changing em out to aluminum makes a big change in how rear end responds...

Subaru's are made in USA? News to me.

The timing belt tensioner is *always* replaced whenever doing any t belt work--it's a major wear item.

Sounds like you got a pretty spectacular deal on valves & timing belt etc replacement, if you got it all done for $1200.

AFA interference/non-interference...most engines today are interference. Ford and Mazda seem to have more
non-interference designs, but quite a few of them
are interference, as well.

Interference Engines - The Complete List - Your Car Angel - Your Car Angel

I drive a 2011 Outback and I have had no problems with it. I don't drive a lot. It has 58000 miles on it. I should be driving it for a while. My wife drives a 2014 Outback.

My Son-in-law's mother was involved in a wreck where they had to use the Jaws of Life to extract her. She bought an Outback because of the safety features.

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Corripe Cervisiam

I am pretty sure that most US sold Subarus are made in Indiana. I had a Ford Escort over 30 years ago that let a timing chain go, and that was a terrible expensive mess, probably more than the car was worth.

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NHI, 10-8.

Outbacks and Legacys are made in Indiana. Unless they recently changed, other models are made in Japan.

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Corripe Cervisiam

I suspect the bodies are made here while the expensive components are imported.

Virtually all Subaru models sold in the U.S. are made in Indiana. My wife's Crosstrek ('14) is Japanese made, but newer ones are made here. We have friends with a '17 model virtually identical to ours except hers states made in America on the doorjam plate.

Where Are Subaru Cars Built? - CarsDirect

We looked at them but didnt buy one because they all have the Boxter Engine and I have never heard anything good about them.

All of our Foresters (4 of them) came from Japan on a boat.

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

It is, one of them, anyway. Break one and your into major engine repair from lunched valves and pistons at the very least. The head gasket thing really hasn't gone away, either. The horizontally opposed 4-cylinder allows oil to gather at the lowest areas when the engine isn't running and when it is, to some extent, which is where the head gaskets lie.

I know of several Subarus running into the 300K zone, they're owned by friends. So they can last.

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Bob

1.) Supposedly the 4cyl head gasket problems went away around 2005 but some people believe they persisted for a while after that. The turbos didn’t have that problem, but did have issues with turbo longevity. Current 4 cyl has been redesigned to include a timing chain instead of a belt. I haven’t heard of any head gasket problems with those, but there have been oil burning complaints, which is currently an industry-wide problem for some reason, but not for all engines.

2.) Don’t remember exact year for the CVT introduction, but I think the Outback got it for the 4 cyl around 2010 and for the 6 cyl two or three years ago. There are two versions of the CVT - compact and heavy duty for lack of better terms. 4 cyl originally came with the heavy duty until they switched to the compact version. I believe the compact version has had a few problems. 6 cyl has only had the heavy duty and I think they are holding up OK (I hope they are - my 2017 has one).

3.) 300K+ mile 2.5 4 cyl are not uncommon. Issues have been well covered above.

4.) I found the 4cyl in my 2007 Limited to be great for everyday driving and I averaged a mediocre 24.5 mpg in my usual circuit. I thought the 4cyl with a CVT was a bit lacking though, so when I got my 2017 I got the 6cyl with CVT. It is a very different car than the 2007 - some good, some bad. Mileage so far has averaged about 21.5. It might get a little better as it breaks in, but I can’t say I am impressed. The 6cyl is an old design that hasn’t been updated significantly in some time. Compared to similar 6 cyl from competitors, it makes less power and is less efficient. It has a good reputation for reliability though.

Your date range spans two “generations” - Gen2 and Gen3. Gen3 ran from 2005 through 2009. I don’t recall the year range for the Gen2. In addition to the rear suspension issue mentioned above, the Gen3 also had the habit of cracking right front CV joint boots because they sit right over the hot catalytic converter. Mine split around 50K miles. Oil accumulating in the spark plug wells is another. Also mentioned above, the Gen3 lacks a bit of front and rear legroom.

Despite the issues (all cars have some kind of issues) I really liked my 2007 Outback Limited and miss it sometimes. It had great brakes, a phenomenal stereo, great visibility, 4WD that really worked the couple times I needed it, tons of room inside, and it held up very well, looking like new even at six years old.

Yah, those Subaru's and Porsche's...awful stuff.

...not to mention all the people who have trusted their lives to horizontally opposed engines in most General Aviation aircraft...i. e. Lycoming...Continental...etc. ...

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A Country Boy Can Survive

We just replaced my wife's 2007 Outback with a 2018 Forester. She had the head gasket problem coming to light and needed suspension work; it was actually more than the car was really worth. We got a decent deal on the Forester, and 0% interest for 4 years. The newer model had all kinds of goodies on it that did not exist before, and for what it would have cost to fix her car and still have a 10 YO car w/140K on it, we will be about 5 months down the road in payments. What the heck, we went 6 years with no payments, and given some of the driving she has to do, I did not want her driving a car that was starting to really show the wear. It also gets better mileage, even brand new.

My 2011 Legacy has way more leg and head room, gets a lot better mileage with the 6 speed as opposed to her 5 speed, and is from a period after the head gasket issue was supposedly fixed/ended (2009, IIRC, was the last model year with that problem). I have almost 150K on it, and the only real $$ I have had to put in to it was to replace the clutch while I was Sonoma early in September. The dealer found no other issues with it, and suggested I consider replacing the drive belt at about 180K. It's been paid for since sometime in 2014, and I don't often leave town anymore, so if it dies on the way to work, it's call a hook and replace it.

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NHI, 10-8.

I drive a new Crosstrek. Cannot complain. I’d like another 50hp, but it isn’t necessary at all...I like the boxer engine and 6 speed

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Halfway and one more step

TX2010 and Doug M:
Great posts and very timely for me! My wife is driving a 2007 Forrester w/ about 175,000 on it. It still runs great but is starting to show a few issues so we have an eye toward replacing it. Sounds like a 2018 Subaru w/ a V6 is going to get serious consideration.

FWIW, her Subaru was made in Indiana. The AWD is great here in the Frozen North. The little 4 cylinder is peppy but you probably don't want to try to tow much with it.

Was someone seriously suggesting that Porsche and Subaru share the same engine? Surely they are just comparing how the cylinders laid out(?) If the latter, we may as well talk about the pros and cons of the old VW flat 4. That really was a Porsche design.

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You're shy a few manners.

If you are shopping soon, you might want to test drive the 2018 and 2017 back to back. I understand they revised the suspension on the 2018 and some think it is too soft. Good deals can be found on the 2017s right now.

An excellent resource of information is the SubaruOutback forum. There is a thread there on pricing that I found helpful. Cars101 has incredibly detailed information on the various trim levels and specifications.

I think the reference to Porsche engines had to do with configuration. Horizontally opposed has advantages and disadvantages like any other configuration. The biggest disadvantage is cost to build. Compared to an I-4, an H-4 has twice as many heads, cams, and exhaust manifolds. The biggest advantage is packaging. I believe the Subaru H-4 is only 18 inches long, so it can be installed longitudinally in front of the unique transaxle without making the car too long.

I bought my son a cherry 98' Outback with 75K mi in 2004 or so. Great little car. cornered like it was on rails, great in sand and snow. Nicely exicuted. That said, I soon found the reports of Subaru reliability was over rated. Granted he could be tough on cars but I keep an eye out over it too. After the first years or so, it needed a anti knock sensor. Then plugs, wires etc. at 90K when the car started bucking and the CEL came on. . Then the AWD acted up (because the periodic trannyfluid change had not been accomplished.) and I had to dump money in again. Shortly after the struts, then complete brake system disintegrated on 3 of 4 wheels. ( Read: spindles ate right through the hubs!) Somewhere in there I also had to do a 1/2 exhaust and timing belt change ( or the motor would likely self destruct). Did waterpump and alt at the same time as the belt because both were showing signs of not being happy ). The motor still ran strong at 120K when I dumped it but it nickled and dimed me to death near every year I owned it. Particularly painful was the tranny maint and timing belt jobs that could cause catastrophic failure of the car if not done on time.
Bottom line: The guy who bought it from me had 200K on it the last time I spoke to him but they were not easy or free miles. Me, I'm all set with Subaru. They may run forever but only for those with patience.

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Dave

Sorry you had some problems with your Subaru, Wee Hooker. But you did buy it at least 6 years old with 75K miles on it. Hard to say what the previous owners did to it in all those miles, all those years. Plus, you granted that your son "could be tough on cars". Over the years I've learned that driving a car gently can really pay big rewards down the road. Jack rabbit starts, racing up to a stop light full speed and slamming on the brakes at the last minute ... these behaviors can take a heavy toll on a vehicle.

Sensors do go bad from time to time. Plugs and wires at 90k miles sounds pretty much par for the course. Things do wear out as we use them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are saying the AWD problem could have been prevented if the recommended maintenance schedule had been adhered to. Maybe that is true of some of the other issues(?) Like I said before, my wife's car has 175k miles and is 10 years old and to date has had no major problems. She drives it very gently and strictly follows the factory maintenance schedule.

Or the one you bought may have just been a lemon. No company can say it has never built one.

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You're shy a few manners.

No, if you're referring to my post.

Someone said the "boxter" engine design was garbage.

Porsche and Subaru share the boxer engine design. There's actually
a history of Subaru and Porsche, going back a few decades.

No, not referring to your post. Someone else said "Boxter engine" when (I think) he meant "boxer engine". That confused me.

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You're shy a few manners.