This was on MSN this evening. The Crystal was in Yokohama to off load her cargo and was inspected by Japanese authorities and was told not to leave the harbor. The Crystal has left the harbor destination unknown at this time. What are they hiding?. Frank

There are a lot of things still weird about this whole situation. Yes, those were busy, traffic-heavy lanes, and friendly waters, but one still wonders how a US warship can be caught by surprise like that. It's not like a container ship the size of the ACX Crystal can pivot on a dime and come at you like an Iranian speedboat. But apparently she made some odd turns before the collision. And all authorities involved, the Japanese, US Coast Guard, and US Navy, are "declining to speculate on the cause". I think this will get pretty complicated.

I gave you guys "likes" not because I like the situation, but because I think you are right on target. We sure need to keep this on our "radar screens", with the strange circumstances of the case. I'm no expert, but I spent plenty of hours in the CIC on a couple of Destroyers, and even back then, there was no way that anybody was going to sneak up on us.... And today's technology is a heck of a lot better. Same goes for the Crystal.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Something is rotten here and I'm afraid the US Navy is going to very embarrassed when they find that a cargo ship maneuvered fast enough to ram them.

" The US Navy initially maintained the event was at 2:20 A.M., when AIS data showed the cargo ship returning to the same area where it had turned earlier, and five minutes before the event was reported to the Coast Guard by the ACX Crystal at 2:25 A.M."

Did somebody hack the AIS? When does a cargo ship leaving port return to the area where it made a turn earlier? Isn't the idea of commercial shipping to make money by moving stuff from place to place. I've never heard of one cruising in circles under normal conditions.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

....the Philippine registered ship? This one was registered in Panama and operated in Japan and Korea.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Apparently, the Fitzgerald never sounded the collision alarm, and was taken completely by surprise...I can't understand that.

Very embarrassing situation for a warship for sure! Our soldiers and sailors should be on alert wherever they are at in the world because our enemies are out there looking for any opportunity to hit us.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

I find myself in the all too common circumstance that I don't have enough general or specific knowledge on the subject to post anything intelligent.

BUT... this latest incident doesn't help to inspire my confidence in our Navy. After the Iranians capturing nine of our sailers last year, small Iranian boats regularly harassing our war ships with impunity and reportedly forcing the unarmed USNS Invincible off course a couple months ago... I duknow... but perhaps it's time to tighten up and maybe sink a few troublemakers.

Didn't the other "speculation" thread get closed?

There is a new sub forum for speculation/conspiracy on these issues, along with motor repair and electrical problems.

I still want the results of Tiger Woods blood test, it doesn't take this long for a toxicology screen to come back!

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Still Running Against the Wind

Sorry, I don't buy that. As taxpayers, if nothing else, there is nothing wrong with wondering out loud how something or somebody caused American servicemen's lives to be lost NOT defending our country and likely millions of dollars to get clobbered to scrap.

As long as we limit ourselves to pointing out the questions which will need to be answered to establish accountability, this has nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

This is our ship, and unlike Tiger Woods, these sailors worked for us.

What is "Sorry, I don't buy that"

Nothing to do about conspiracy I just threw that in there, no one was there, there are no facts only what the "news" says. So it is all just speculation. The questions and speculation here will not determine the truth of what happened.
Read the last post by the Mod in this thread, closed.Dated 6/17

Cargo Ship T-Bones Navy Destroyer

The Tiger Wood was a "drift" and speculation.

Carry on then.

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Still Running Against the Wind

It is being reported in other forums that some news sources are reporting that the !st class Firecontrolman who was 3 months from retirement, rescued as many as 20 shipmates before losing his life. Maybe someone with greater internet skills than me can verify this.

Sounds like the freighter was on autopilot with no one looking out, and I’d bet the Navy crew knew much earlier about about the freighter, plotted the freighter’s expected course, saw that it was no factor on the older course, then became complacent while assuming the freighter would not change course and went back to playing Spades or whatever game they might play at 2:30am. Horrible tragedy. Some survivors on the Navy ship are going to pay big time.

Navy Sailor Could Have Saved Himself, Chose to Save His ‘Kids’ or Die Trying

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

Today has been very quiet regarding news about the collision. At least I have seen no new information anywhere.

I think the rooskies were testing a Romulan cloaking device.
Romulan technology | Memory Alpha | Fandom powered by Wikia

...'minor' incident that will be forgotten quickly. People died (Ok, what unusual about that?) and an Arlleigh Burke Destroyer was surprised in open sea by a container ship. Those two factors are not going to let this one get by.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Like DWalt, I have done a lot of surfing and am puzzled by the lack of coverage. Those that are only treat it with passing interest.

Lots of tight lips out there.

Aside from sadness at the American loss of life, like all of you, I think this is a complex, difficult, mysterious puzzle that has got my attention.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

Didn't we learn anything from Pearl Harbor???????

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I am the Majority
How about u

I imagine the Navy has clamped a lid on making news releases until better information is available. At least that is what I would do. Helps prevent fake news. The story won't be going away anytime soon.

does anyone actually believe that the TRUTH will ever be known.....

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There's nowt so queer as folk

You can't handle the truth.

It depends on what the truth is. If it is a major national security incident (such as the North Koreans or Iranians hacking the container ship controls) probably not. Malfeasance on the part of either ship, probably.

Glad you figured that all out.

The Navy is going to sit on this as long as they can, and I don't blame them. No matter what a thorough investigation shows, it ain't going to be pretty. I cringe at what's in store.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I was in the Navy but never at sea, long story. I do know this however. 75% of all military aircraft crashes are due to pilot error. Hard to believe isn't it, but it's true. Spent four years watching some very unusual maneuvers by pilots so I'm prone to believe it was human error. Not sure exactly how but somebody on that destroyer screwed up. OOD on the bridge is going to take some heat. Probably never know the real story as the military is pretty tight lipped about this stuff.. We had some accidents that never made the news. Aircraft hit a car one time on final approach and nobody I talked to knew anything about it. The only reason I knew about it was because I was there when it happened. Everyone walked away but the car was a pile of junk.

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That's just somebody talkin.

It is true. I is on several news feeds.

Your explanation is very consistent with the facts as presently known. We don't know who was asleep on the bridge when it happened.

At one time, there was a lot of smuggling going on between North Korea and Japan. It stretches the imagination to believe that's changed.

Just wanted to post before the lock hammer comes down......

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Even older, even crankier....

I wish my father was still with us to hear what he would have to say about this incident. He had no use for any slackers onboard his ship. He expected 100% from everyone 100% of the time. He expected everyone to be alert at all times. No excuses and no slacking off, because he knew that there were enemy submarines in the Atlantic and the Pacific that were looking for an opportunity to sink the ship and kill everyone onboard. I would like to tell the story of the confrontation between my father and a malingering sailor, but the moderators might not like it.

Now hear this....

If it is proven that anyone on the bridge of the USS Fitzgerald was asleep on watch when this incident happened, I will donate $500 to this Forum.

Will anyone who says someone was asleep on the bridge watch on the Fitz be willing to match my donation if they're proven to be right?

I didn't think so.

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

It is amazing that in this day and age something like this can happen. Hope the reports are made public. Don't need names and stuff just what happened and didn't happen.

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

Don't they have people on the bridge with actual eyeballs on lookout at night. Ships do have running lights. You can tell a ships course by what lights are visable . If you can see another ships bow lights in your 12 to 3 oclock position you need to do something as you are the give way vessel. Was there heavy fog or rain ?

It was a clear night, dave. Maybe better if weather had been bad -- people tend to be more attentive then.

So in the past few days, I've learned:

Five of the seven probably died almost instantly. Of the other two, one attempted to contact his father about a half hour after the collision via a messaging app but did not make the connection, thankfully I think. The other must have been Petty Officer First Class Rhem, the one who saved 20 of his shipmates. There's an online petition to name one of the new DDGs after him.

The captain of the container ship told a Japanese news service that the ship was on autopilot at the time. He also said the ships were on similar courses, and that the container ship altered course to port by a few degrees that might not have been readily apparent to the watchstanders on the Fitzgerald (though it should be been obvious on radar, right?) and that the maneuver turned a situation in which the Fitz would have passed ahead into a collision course.

Captain of the Fitz was injured in the initial collision that destroyed the cabin. He was helped out of there and assisted to the bridge, but was in such bad shape he was medevaced soon after. Collision destroyed the comms nodes for the Fitz, and communications from the ship had to be by satellite phones.

The container ship is still in Yokosuka; it didn't leave port, apparently.

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

Here is the latest: Maritime Mystery: Why a U.S. Destroyer Failed to Dodge a Cargo Ship - The New York Times

Just checked the current position of the ACX Crystal. Apparently left Yokohama 25 June bound for Sekisakip, Stn. So yes the ship was in Yokohama and I have to apologize for the false info. I had checked MSN prior to my posting the ships position at that time. Guess MSN messed up as well. As far as investigations are concerned only time will tell as to what truly happened. We had a older CPO in charge of our #1 engine room,generator room,pump room and shaft alley's as well as the thrust block. God help the sailor getting caught sleeping on watch. Frank

Preliminary report is out:

"WASHINGTON — The two top officers aboard a destroyer during a deadly collision off the coast of Japan in June were relieved of their duties on Friday, the Navy’s Seventh Fleet said. A number of other sailors were punished for their roles in the crash.

The announcement followed the release of a harrowing preliminary report on the collision between the destroyer Fitzgerald and a freighter that killed seven people aboard the American ship. It was one of the Navy’s deadliest accidents in years.

The ship’s captain, Cmdr. Bryce Benson; his second-in-command; and the senior enlisted sailor were relieved of their duties by the head of the Seventh Fleet in Japan, Vice Adm. Joseph P. Aucoin. A statement from the fleet said “inadequate leadership” had contributed to the collision.

The statement said a number of other sailors would face disciplinary action. A senior Navy officer said Thursday that about a dozen sailors in total would be punished, including all those on watch the night of June 17...."

Top Two Officers on Navy Ship in Deadly Collision Off Japan Are Relieved of Duties - The New York Times

Also published yesterday in The New York Times is a copy of the Navy report detailing the events immediately after the collision up until the Fitzgerald moored in the Japanese port. It is an interesting read, for sure, but it only covers the aftermath. Still to come, I guess, are the reports on "why".

One thing that is crystal clear, though, is that the crew performed masterfully in its damage control response. This is a tribute and testament to professionalism from a well-trained crew operating at a time when most had been jolted from sleep and had to improvise due to damage from the collision that blocked access to the primary repair locker. The Damage Control Assistant (DCA) in charge of the response was a female officer who, along with the Damage Control Chief (DCC), should be credited with an exceptional job of saving the ship.

The crew members being punished, including the captain, are receiving non-judicial punishment instead of courts martial. One of the admirals involved said that the bridge watchstanders are being punished because they "lost situational awareness." It's becoming clearer that the merchant vessel that had been traveling on a similar course to the Fitzgerald may have made a small course change that went undetected by the Navy crew. The NJP's don't necessarily mean the Fitzgerald was entirely at fault in the collision, but there is enough evidence that mistakes were made to warrant the punishments.

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

A warship in crowded waters allows itself to be rammed by a freighter and it takes 2 months to relieve the commanding officer? Hmmm. Sorry, they "lost situational awareness." is probably the mildest and most PC way of saying that they were negligent.

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Who watches the watchers?

The Captain won't have another ship to command; neither will the XO ever be in a position to command. The senior enlisted person has likely topped out, career wise. They'll probably have to resign or retire, else be passed over for promotion in the future.

The Captain, XO, and senior enlisted person, weren't on the bridge at the time of the collision. As such, they weren't in direct command. But, responsibility is responsibility. They set the standards for shipboard behavior by the rest of the crew.

It's been noted that the watch standers had relied too much on radar images, instead of visual alertness. The radar screens don't increase alertness, they actually deaden it.

In years past, it was common in the Navy to relieve the CO for command failures. He was believed solely responsible for every failure of his command. With the advent of the Command Master Chief position, and recognition of his influence with the CO and over the crew, it is now common practice to relieve both the CO and the CMCPO.

I know of a case in the SEABEES where the senior enlisted was an E-8 selected for promotion. When the command performed in a really poor manner during a combat field exercise, the CO and the senior enlisted was relieved on the spot. The E-8 tried unsuccessfully thru appeals to retain his promotion to MCPO and was denied. He was forced to retire as an E-8.

I'm in complete agreement with this. As a Command Master Chief of a number of commands for years, I know exactly how great an influence the senior enlisted can have over the readiness and performance of the command. If you are going to wear the title, you best do the job.

"... Responsibility is responsibility. They set the standards for shipboard behavior by the rest of the crew.."

Yes. Unforgiving, for sure. But just.

And God bless them, and give them strength to bear this, one and all.

I wonder if it will stop at the ship's CO?

Remember back about 10 years ago when the USAF Chief of Staff got booted because a B-52 went on a cross-country flight with unauthorized nukes aboard? But in that case, the investigation found that safeguards to prevent such incidents were not being implemented properly in locations throughout the USAF. The same could be true in the Navy.

As a Navy Veteran I find it almost impossible to believe that anyone on watch fell asleep. There's generally quite a bit of activity during watch, and especially in a busy traffic lane, however I have no other logical explanation.

I was on a supertanker once in about 1966 with Florida in sight off to starboard. Went up on the bridge, nobody there. Aren't autopilots great?

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Foster Positivity.

Sounds like a typical military coverup. The higher ups will have their careers "ended", forced to retire-with full benefits- at their present ranks. Real punishment.

It is very real punishment. Their ego and morale is crushed. They failed at the pinnacle of their career. Those in command, when abruptly dismissed, agonize over every decision or command they made leading up to the collision. What they will do to themselves is far more severe than any financial or incarceration punishment would ever do.

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S&WHF 366

Got an axe to grind? Tell me, just how much experience with military justice do you have to render such a cynical opinion? As a retired soldier, I find your comment both offensive and uninformed.

Read the redacted account of the aftermath. One thing caught my eye was the sailors holding open a hatch to try and pull more guys out. They waited long enough that they were then unable to secure that hatch due to water flooding up though it. Yes, I understand that you want to save your shipmates in the immediate area, but fighting the sea has got a lot of people killed and ships lost. The sea will win every time.

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Release the Kraken

I would think it unlikely that falling asleep was the problem.

I don't know how long ago you served, but these days there are distractors available that were unknown not many years back. Nowadays, games and such on smartphones and tablets are more probable causes of a loss of situational awareness than old-fashioned sleep.

Remember the experienced airline captain and co-pilot who forgot to land and overshot their destination airport by 45 minutes or so a few years ago because they both were busy on a laptop?