A year ago I bought a used car from Carmax. Every car they sell comes with a 30 day bumper to bumper warranty. While it was still within the 30 days, I got a warning light on the car. I took it in for service, but the light had gone out before I got it to the shop. They told me they didn't find any codes and it was probably nothing.

The problem came back about three weeks later. Then cleared. Then came back, and so on. It slowly got worse. The car drives fine, but the warning became more frequent.

I don't have the special code reader to read the factory codes so I took the car to a specialist. He read the code and, after three days of troubleshooting, told me the turbo was bad as well as the water pump, cam cover gasket and O2 sensors. The estimate for repair is just over $1,900K for the turbo and $1,100 for the other stuff. The initial error is related to the turbo. He also told me that these codes don't just clear themselves. They sit in memory until cleared. Hmmm, why did Carmax tell me there was no code when it was there in the memory?

It just so happens that at the same time I get an email from Carmax congratulating me on having the car for a year. Bad timing on their part because I'm irritated at the repair and more irritated that they didn't tell me about the code when I fist took it in. My first thought was, "They didn't tell me about the code so they wouldn't have to fix this." I don't believe that's true, but that did go through my mind. So, I write them an email explaining how I'm upset that I've had this problem since new and they either missed or didn't tell me about the code.

Surprise, surprise, Carmax calls me on the phone and apologizes. Then the local Carmax service manager calls and asks me to tell him the exact error code. Well, I didn't know it at that moment, but I promise to let him know when I found out.

I picked up the car today, no repairs yet, and took it over to Carmax where I talked with the service manager. He admits they may have made a mistake. Hmmm,...wait...what? He asks me to let them take a look at the car and make their own analysis. He thinks they may be able to help me. Um, OK.


Now, I've put 30K on this car in the last year. They could have just blown me off. They could have said that I caused this issue after the fact. They could have said, "Sorry, it's past the 30 days and it's your issue now." They could have said any number of things, but they didn't. I'm blown away.

I'm going to take them the car next week. I know they won't miss the issue this time, but I also think it's reasonable to let them make their own diagnosis. This issue DID exist when I bought the car, it's just gotten worse over time. I'm curious to see how this goes. The O2 sensors, water pump and leaking gasket are just part of owning a car. I don't have an issue repairing those. It's the problem that's been there since I bought it.

I'm very curious to hear what he says. I'm sure they won't fix it for free at this point, but if they can cut me some slack on labor, they'll get a customer for life. I've already bought two cars from them.

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Freedom isn't free.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

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God spelled backwards is dog.

Knew a guy who worked in their shop. He said they did try to fix items they found on the car before it was put out for sale.

Almost 10 years ago Intok my wife to lunch one Sunday. At the time we owned onecar outright and had another 3 payments (about $1,000) owing on the second. She mentioned we really needed to update one of our cars. I told her that I wanted at least 6 months without car payments to save a decent deposit this time as I was sick of buying $15,000 cars worth only a grand come trade in time.

On the way out of town I passed the local Ford/Mazda dealership that was open. On a whim I stopped and took her onto the lot to show her how much a decent car was going to cost us. Now my past experiences with car salesmen had not been good. The approach you, you tell them you are just looking. They steer you to a car worth more than your budget, they ask you what you can afford as weekly payments and then they bump you up higher on an "Have I got a deal for you" talk. This time though it was different.

After asking what we were driving (Ford Mondeo) the salesman suggested we look as three ex-lease Mondeo's (27,000 - 35,00 kilometres) that were a) a bloody good price to start with, and b) $2,000 off the sticker price that weekend.

We looked, we liked but decided we couldn't afford. When the salesman came back he asked us what we could afford and worked out a repayment schedule only $8 a week higher. We drove off the lot in a 13 month oldcar with 27,000 k on the clock.

A few years later we were looking for a new car for my wife. She insisted we go back again and even though a different salesman greeted us we got the same service.

A few years ago I wanted to buy my wife a brand new car for her birthday. I simply could not afford the one I wanted but the salesman offered me the top of the line model (leather seats, extra features) of the next model down at dealer cost when he learned that we had bought our last two cars from them and I wasn't thinking of going elsewhere. The finance manager also recognised me and we spent almost a month working out a repayment schedule that worked. He told me if I came back within 3 years he would ensure I got a top trade in as the car would still be worth a good retail due to the age, mileage (he knows what my wife drove to work at the time). When we were able to make additional payments I stopped in to tell him and congratulated us.

Earlier this year I called in and was looking at a small Mazda SUV. The finance manager saw me and came up to chat. He took me into his office and worked some sums again. When I said I was still 6-12 months from a trade up from the last car he said it was good that I was doing due diligence now and assured me that repeat customers were important and he would see that I got a similar deal to the last time. The franchise has been family owned for 3 generations and they would prefer to make repeat sales than big margins.

I doubt I'll go anywhere else to buy a vehicle ever again.

Kiwi, good treatment/service should be rewarded with loyalty. Sounds like a win-win for sure.

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God spelled backwards is dog.

Excellent story.

This is my second car from Carmax. I was fortunate enough to buy it outright. They actually held two cars for me for a week so I could compare them in person. When I bought this one, I wasn't in the place more than an hour and a half. The half hour was my debit card company authorizing such a large payment.

Regardless of how this plays out, I will look at Carmax first when we need a new vehicle.

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Freedom isn't free.

Kiwi,

That is a GREAT dealer, but just a little too far for me to drive.

Bekeart

You do realize that the "check engine" light, which I'll assume we're talking about, can be activated by something as simple as an improper gas cap seal. Here in the great flyover state of Missouri, nobody gives a tin snot about those lights. Doesn't impact the safety or security of your car or the nation. Might indicate that you need a new PCV valve, or some other semi-required invention. Relax . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Nope, not talking about the "check engine" light. This thread has nothing to do with what's actually wrong with the car. Go back and read the OP. You'll see that we already know what's wrong. It's about good customer service and how well I've been treated even when they didn't have to.

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Freedom isn't free.

I read the OP. I'm not sure clearing a code and lying about it, then admitting you may have made a mistake when confronted later is good customer service, but then again, that may be above and beyond where you live . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

CE lights are sometimes a mystery. My Tundra had a stubborn check engine light. AutoZone said it was a cam timing sensor. Took it to Toyota and they fooled with it for about three hours but could find nothing wrong. When they plugged everything back up the CE light wasn't on. It's been a year or maybe two... light has never come back on and engine runs great. Toyota mechanic said that sometimes disconnecting the components and reconnecting is enough to fix a bad connection... who knows? I have no idea.

$3,000 in repairs is a lot of money for 1yr and 30k miles driving. Hope all works out in your favor. Good luck.

Given my experience of car dealers and service staff in the desert SW, yes, FAR above the norm. Carmax looked after me earlier this year when a steering joint went bad 32 days after purchase. I had barely driven the vehicle due to other commitments and rain. Carmax made it right for free.

As for most of the rest, every slimy car dealer and dishonest mechanic that has been run out of another state lives in Vegas or LA. Go read the accounts on Edmunds.com of poor customer service at a variety of dealers. Oddly enough, those with luxury makes are often the worst. There is at least one BMW dealership in the LA basin that has a nationwide rep for "service with a shrug" as I politely call it.

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Release the Kraken

Well, around here, clearing a code and lying about it might get you punched in the face. Not exactly the pinnacle of customer service . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I don't know what happened. What's important is how they handle it now. A week will tell the tale.

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Freedom isn't free.

You hang around long enough and things change. I'm not saying that you shouldn't go back to a place that has done well for you all these time. And maybe that family really takes pride in operating on such a high level as that. So when somebody else takes over the business maybe they will have the same standards.

A high school classmate of mine opened up a 'lube and car repairs place'. They weren't cheap, but they were good and when you took something to them, they got it fixed. I was singing their praises for about thirty years. Then a couple times I went, I didn't feel right about what transpired and my son said the same thing. But inertia counts for something and it took me a while to realise that apparently my old classmate isn't as involved in the business as he was. In fact, the people that are running it are downright crooked. I found a new outfit near me that's privately owned and so far, they've been first class. My wife was driving an old, torn up but very reliable car and took it to them because about every idiot light was lit up. They said, "Take it and keep driving it, because there isn't a thing wrong with it" and charged us nothing. The old place I went to would charge $50 just to plug in the data reader. I'm on auto pilot again, when something is wrong, I know where to go.

PS: That was severalf years ago and we finally got rid of it last week because the fan switch got stuck on and would drain the battery. Probably could have fixed it but it was really a junkpile and I wanted my wife to drive something different. We gave it to some people that were hard up. They could afford it because the tax bill was all of 12 smackers.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I just ordered a device that is supposed to plug into the diagnostic port of your car and communicate to my cell phone via bluetooth and give me any codes and information in the computer control module in plain language. See how it works.

On a further note. I was driving back from meeting some family for lunch (a 600 mile round trip , it is Montana.) Anyway. With absolutely no warning lights my Ford Escape looses power and then dies. After losing power, but before motor dies I look at dash and nothing, no fuel gauge, no speedometer, although I am still moving pretty good. Nothing. I am 20 miles south of a small town of a few thousand and about 120 miles from home. Call triple A and tell them I want a town home (have extended towing) They say they will text me back. I then call a sister who is well behind me, but heading to a small town near my house. Over an hour later sitting by the side of the road in 98 degree heat, nothing from triple A. Sister shows up after several people have stopped with offers to help. I hook up jumper cables to sister's truck and my car starts, but dies when I unhook cables. Dead alternator. Finally while this is going on, a guy from a wrecker company calls and says he will be there in 1/2 hour. I tell him don't bother. I am not happy with triple A. well over an hour with nothing and no communication. Sit with jumper cables hooked up and charging my battery for 15 minutes. Start car, sister unhooks me and I take off. No engine lights. I drive 80 mph with nothing electric turned on. About 40 miles down the road engine looses power again, no warning lights. Pull over, sister stops, jumper cables for 15 min. Take off. Another 30 miles and do it again. Then again. Then 20 miles from my place and where sister turns to head to her little town, I stop and she bumps my battery up. I drive home and call sister to tell her I made it.

Next day I check U tube, then go to taking out bad alternator. Job from Hades. Buried, unhook wires, and a bunch of stuff to make a hole to the hidden area where alternator is. Tight nut rounds off etc. 6 hrs later I finally get it out. Checks as totally bad. Install new one in 4 hrs. Ford engineer should be put against a wall, blindfolded and shot. Recommended method by Haynes is remove exhaust from engine, remove frame cross brace, remove passenger side front drive axle, after removing part of wheel well liner, remove air ducts from alternator (if the wouldn't have buried it in such a stupid place it wouldn't need air ducts) tiny hidden nuts on ducting. Hard to reach mounting bolts and I have LOTS of tools, job just sucks. Mostly work by feel. I will never ever do that job again. Another clear case of engineering the owner out of the engine compartment and into their dealers shop and shop rates. I am sure it would have been well over a $500 bucks in labor to change out a stupid $130 alternator, that should be a hour or so job. Not happy with Ford, as no warning light for alternator, and stupid engineering. That was NOT a better idea! Not happy with 3A for long wait with no communication or help. Next time they ask if I am safe, I am going to say NO.

Think I am going to find a nice old 80s car, stick in rebuilt motor and transmission, brake job. Should be able to do that for under 10k. With the money I save over a new car I can have full sized car luxury and room, and pay for a lot of reduced gas mileage and fix it cheap and simple. I am thinking something like a Vista Cruiser. Seriously. $20,000 in initial cost savings will buy 7,000 of $3 a gallon gas. 15 mpg vs 25. 100,000 miles at 25mpg is 4000 gallons. At 15 it is 6,666. So an extra burn of 2,666 gallons at $3 per is 8K. Full sized seats leg room front and rear. Retro cool. Plus, if it breaks down I can do something besides open the hood and look clueless. Does it have oil, gas to carb, ignition? If you give it that it will run as long as a piston isn't sticking out of the block. No computer, no huge jumble of wires, no hoses running everywhere. Parts you can see and get to. Yet, air conditioning, power window, cruise control. Maybe an old Lincoln Town car or Caddy. Buick or a Chrysler.

steelslaver:

I hit the like button not because I enjoy hearing about others' tribulations(and yours was a bad one), but because, as an auto DIYer, I can empathize with the sometimes maddening repair jobs with which we're faced.

Back to customer service.

Regards,
Andy

I had one. Turns out there are specific manufacturer's codes in the OBDII system. If you get one, make sure it covers your specific model and make of car.

Subaru was the easiest car to work on I've ever owned. Pontiac Firebird was the worst. You have to remove the exhaust manifold to get to the spark plugs. Took me two hours just to replace to plug wires.

This car is tiny and just about anything is buried. I can save a lot by fixing it myself. But what a mechanic with a lift can fix in a few hours will take me a couple days. Not fun.

I'm mechanically inclined, but I'm not inclined to be a mechanic.

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Freedom isn't free.

I think you are smart to wait a week to get a second opinion from CarMax or whomever. I'd be suspect of any 'specialist' who told me I need $3k in repairs for an engine that is is currently working fine with no sign of any issues for a year and 30k miles other than a CE. The O2 sensor might be the culprit. I had an O2 go out and still drove the truck for nearly a year with the CE on. Finally got it fixed before I had to take it in for the smog inspection. Engine ran the same before the CE came, while it was on and after the O2 sensor was replace.

I had just the opposite experience with Chevrolet. Had put 20k miles on the car in 38 months when the transmission failed. Chevy told me that as the warranty is 36 months/36,000 miles I was not covered.

When I pointed out that transmissions don't die sitting in the driveway and it obviously was defective, I was essentially told to go pound sand...and they were quite rude about it.

$1900 later it was fixed and traded in on a Honda. If I ever buy another GM car I hope my wife shoots me as it shows I have lost my mind.

You should have gone to Autozone or any of the other discount auto parts places when you saw the first Check Engine Light...they'd pull the codes for free. Copy em down, and research em on net--easy.

Like Muss said, a loose gas cap will throw a CEL--and that code WILL clear itself from memory, after so many cycles where the evap emissions system pulls a good vacuum, with 'good' readings. It's entirely possible that was the first CEL you saw, and why the shop saw no codes.

At this point, you can't tell what the heck gave you a CEL initially. Codes like O2 sensors will not clear, and the CEL won't go off, so that's one you can scratch off the list. You didn't specify the other codes pulled, so no opinion on them.

The year-later codes are likely totally unrelated, and independent from your initial CEL. If the vendor decides to take on the repairs at their expense, lucky you.


BTW, OBD is an industry-wide protocol. The codes vary slightly from mfr to mfr, but any OBD reader will read any OBD-compliant car (anything legal for sale in US).

The communications protocol and the basic emissions codes may be common in OBD II, but I can assure you that are a slew of additional codes in Jaguars that are not used by anyone else.

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Release the Kraken

Again, this isn't the check engine light you see on most cars. It is a make specific code. I did go to those places to check if they could read the code; they couldn't.

Nope, not even close....

This is the correct answer.

There are hundreds of generic codes. Where the manufacturer thinks a generic code doesn't cover their specific vehicle, they can add their own. A generic OBDII reader can be had for about $15, but it only reads the generic codes. I know, I have one. Further, AutoZone, Oriley's and just about every other parts stores have generic readers too which don't read mfr specific codes. I know, I checked.

As I've already stated, it's not the gas cap.

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Freedom isn't free.

Makes sense that Jaguars would have a lot more problem codes than other vehicles.

Very funny, but all vehicles have mfr specific codes and they all have about the same amount.

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Freedom isn't free.

The comm protocol is the same, if it's a legally marketed vehicle in US. The mfr-peculiar codes are available online.

They call em "idiot lights" for a reason. Ignore at your own peril.

Maybe not exemplary CS, but around here the puncher will get a free ride to county jail to wait there until the friendly judge has time to hear your story. When he does, he probably won't be too interested in the thing about clearing the code.

I'm impressed with Kiwi's story. The Carmax folks... I agree with the "not exactly the pinnacle" stuff, but I'll withhold final judgment for now, until we hear how this ends. Even an operation with high corporate standards can get derailed at the street level by employees or franchisees who think they know how to do it better.

Do you know what that guy's problem is?

He admitted they "may" have made a mistake. What an idiot. Here's how that should have gone down:

"Well, sir, I understand you've been having some problems with the car you purchased from us a year ago, and I understand you took the car in to have the warning light checked with 30 days of sale. We at Carmax want you to be completely satisfied in your purchase. No car we sell should have those kinds of mechanical issues a year after sale. With your permission, we'd like the opportunity to make this right. If you would please bring the printed report from your mechanic, I'd like to correct every item on that list for no-charge/parts-cost/whatever."

Never admit guilt. If ol' Rastoff wasn't suspicious before, he sure as hell has a reason to be now.

PS--Does your company need BS as seen above? I am available for hire.

Got the car checked at Carmax today. This is what I said in the OP...It's a shame that I have to report they have not gained a customer for life. In fact, they very politely told me, "We saw the code and we can't fix this here. So, you'll have to take it somewhere else." To which I replied, "If you can't fix it, what would you have done when I brought this in the first time?" "Well," he replied, "we would have taken it to shop X where they can fix it."

I can see that they're just moving me down the road and trying to get rid of this by blaming it on whatever.

I was hoping this would turn out differently. Alas, customer service does make a difference. In this case it's not the good kind of difference.

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Freedom isn't free.

"Fix this" what? Did they actually diagnose something was in need of replacement or repair? Or did they just read the code and hand you back your keys like they did the first time?

That's an excellent question. They found 5 codes:

• Both oxygen sensors are bad (2 codes for one and 1 for the other). Easy fix.
• An inlet actuator movement failure that has something to do with the timing.
• The 5th code he didn't know what it was.

So, no, not what I'd call real troubleshooting. When he saw it was the timing thing, he immediately begged off. I asked about the 5th code, which I believe is the major problem, and he just wouldn't engage about it.

The car is currently at another shop where I'll have to pay at least $140 for them to diagnose the issue again.

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Freedom isn't free.

About what I expected . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I have to say that I agree with you.
It's hard enough to get them to repair a car that is under warranty much less one that is out of warranty.

customer service and product quality...........let either decline and you are dead where you stand.....

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There's nowt so queer as folk

As much as I hate to admit it, me too.

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Freedom isn't free.

Check your local lemon laws, and if necessary, contact the state attorney general's office. Especially if you have documentation of the codes from back when you originally bought it.

I would also complain to corporate again.

Already done.

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Freedom isn't free.

youre right customer service makes or breaks a company. Take S&W on these latest round of rebates for buying select guns. I sent my registration in the next day, was the middle of May. Still to this day nothing and they keep passing the buck to some company that is handling it for them. Well you call them and they have no record of anything. Total run around. I would have expected far better from S&W. Check their facebook page, hundreds of people bitching about the same thing. Just not good customer service if you ask me.

Gotta love customer service.

Late April I bought a lawnmower, online. Because I had been to the company's website, the next day there were all these popup ads saying "say the secret word and get 5% of a purchase".

I wrote customer service, asking if I could get that on the mower I'd just bought. 180 dollar mower, so 9 bucks. No big deal either way, but it's like seeing a ten dollar bill laying on the sidewalk. You pick it up.

Got an automated response. "One of our excellent Customer Service reps will respond within 48 hours." As I said - late April. Kinda past the 48 hour window. Nine bucks ain't gonna break me. Yes or no, I don't really care. But answer the question.

5 July I wrote them again. Told them I was disappointed. Lawnmower handles fold, so you can store or transport them. They have plastic thumbnuts to hold the handle tight when unfolded. Third time I used it, saw one of the nuts loose. Retightened it. Fourth time, saw the nut lying in the grass. Picked it up, put it back one RETIGHTENED it. Fifth time, nut is gone. Still haven't found it.

I told them I'd had it for a month and a half, used it five times, and it was falling apart.

NOT A PROBLEM, they told me. Mower is unconditionally guaranteed for two years. They would send me the parts right out.

July 5. That's 26 days ago. Know how fast grass grows in Florida in 26 days in July? Sure would be nice if they would send me the parts to fix my mower.

Yes, I went to Lowes and got a nut, bolt and lock-washer, so I can still cut the grass. That's not the point. "We'll send the parts right out", and it's been almost a month.

It's a good mower.

I'm NEVER going to buy anything from them again.

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I always take precautions

I'm not expecting much but do let us know if your protest to the corporate people does you any good. At the consumer level, it's a bust for both you and them. The path they took doesn't help either of you. They knew about the codes to begin with, lied about it, didn't want to or couldn't fix the problems, and it seems did more or less everything but be straight with you. No CS here.

The best customer service is the one you never have to use. Even S&W could take a lesson from that.

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NRA Benefactor

The third shop called Monday morning and needed to do more testing. That's another $140 I have to pay. Today they called and said they think they've found it and the repair is going to be very expensive. They are a dealer and I figured it would be pricey from them. Not going to get it repaired there.

I received a call this morning from the service manager at Carmax. The short version is that he's going to pay for something, but not all. By the end of this week I'll know exactly what needs to be done and what will be done.

This is all very frustrating.

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Freedom isn't free.

Jesus! Talk about a universal shock! Never, ever trust the Dealers finance manager's word for anything.

I bought, back in the day, a 1983 Olds Cutlass sedan, and it came with a written warranty...it became difficult to start, so I took it back to the dealership. The service manager quoted me a new carburetor was needed, $900 bucks. Told him it was under warranty, he said no, that was never covered for used cars. Brought them the warranty, said all fuel system components...an hour later, they said nothing was wrong and handed me back the keys...never went back, dumped the car ASAP. They went out of business within two years of my "service".

Just an update...

Carmax paid for the $280 check up a the dealer. They have promised to call me with their own estimate for the repair. That was Friday, today is Monday and no call. I will call tomorrow to see what's up.

The service manager also told me that I could just sell them my car back. I didn't bite, but I'd bet they wouldn't give me even half what I paid for it.

I honestly expect nothing more from them and will probably end up fixing this myself.

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Freedom isn't free.

I haven't kept up with this thread. First you said their service was great and now it's not? And the car isn't fixed yet? Man that bites. Sorry buddy. Keep rattling their cage. Sic the state attorney general on them!

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

30 day warranty...

A year and 30,000 miles later that they would give you $280 for diagnostics work at another shop is surprising.

Rastoff

What make / model is your car?

So what actually broke?

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Release the Kraken