It's very possible that cud will learn drifter's skills as he matures.. If not, in a cat household it is very common that different members have a variety of talents and personality types. That makes it interesting for the human family (even if you're a family of one) I'm glad you have the perfect number of cats for you

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

well, the cats are home, but unconscious.
drifter looks good. breathing fine.
i don't now if cud will make it. very shallow breathing.
the vet was worried, but no help for it.
the stupid bit probably OD ed cud. he was fighting harder than drifter, so she probably over reacted.
the smart thing would have been to leave him there,
i'm paying for the extra driving. right now.

__________________
susie

Well, susie,I sure hope they both do well. I’m sure that all of us are rooting for your kitties. But I’ll bet that they both make it fine. Cats are pretty tough!!

Keep us posted.

Best Regards, Les

__________________
SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

drifter has crawled out of her carrier.
cud is alive, but barely.

__________________
susie

i was gona give cud artificial resusitation.
but, when i blew on his face, he blinked.

i laid him down n he seems to be breathing better now that i woke hi up.

drifter is mostly out of her carrier. she can only crawl a little at a time.
my heart is breaking.

__________________
susie

Hang in there.... thanks for keeping us in the loop!! I’m sure that drifter is going to be ok... now looking better for cuddles!!

Best Regards, Les

__________________
SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

drifter seemed to be crawling to me, so i got down on the floor with her. she moved off tho. she is crawling aimlessly around the room.
i hate this because she's dragging her incision on the carpet.
i guess a tougher person could lock her in the carrier, but i just can't do that.
i was right. that bit gave cud too much trank. he's breathing fine but still unconscious.
since he weighs 2 oz more than drifter he should have woke first.

by the way, drifter only weighs 6 1/2 lbs. that proves how tough she is. i think the bunnies she kills weigh 3 or 4lbs.
but she takes them anyway.

__________________
susie

I will pray for both of your kitties. They all act dopey for the first day after the surgery. It takes quite awhile for them to be acting normally. Please do not let either one out until the vet says so... How did your MD visit go today? Keep me posted about the kitties. Drifter just feels sore. She'll be ok. Shallow breathing for cud could be because he has some discomfort from the procedure. They need to keep reasonable warm the first day or two. Any questions, call the vet.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

i picked the guys up 9 1/2 hours ago. they can both walk, but are wobbly.
hey would have been better staying longer at the vet, but not now.
they are stoned, but they are in their own home.
i think being home is helpful.
neither is eating or drinking.
i expected at least thirst.
they both hate me.
no more loving cats.
i don't wanna push myself.
strike that. cuddles just came u to me.
no purring but no real hate.
drifter cringes if i get near.
they both have the run of the house.
i figre normal is best, but the vet said no outside for a week.
i'll keep them in for a few days. when drifter gets out she'll roll in the dirt so i want the wounds closed.
i still feel guilty.
this feels like an evil thing to do.

__________________
susie

Susie, I was waiting to hear how they were doing. They will not hate you. They will both be healthier and live longer!! My kitties are just fine, and are very affectionate. I think that in the long run, you will be pleased.

So glad that they are wearing off the after effects of the anesthesia. But I would follow the instructions about keeping them in for a week.

It is not "evil". I do remember having second thoughts about Lucky when I took him in for his operation. I think that I shared those feelings with you guys in the thread I wrote about him at the time. He is going to be 10 months old on the 1st of July, and he is healthy and happy!! (Or so he told me.)

Drifter and cud are going to be much healthier and happier over the long run.

Thanks for letting us know how things are going,

Best Regards, Les

__________________
SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

this is running into money. $300 for the vet, not including carriers.
but now, the fair thing would be to give them a cat door.
when drifter comes in during the day, she wants out in a half hour.
she doesn't hate me because she got cut.
she is upset because i put her in the carrier.
one thing she can't stand is having her freedom of movement
interfered with.
i got her in the house by convincing her that i'd let her do what she wants.
now, i've abused that trust.
seems like i owe them a cat door.
oh, they both got rabies n distemper.
no sign of paracites either,

__________________
susie

Great...so glad that you got them their shots as well!! I know that this all ran into money, but the big expense is pretty much behind you now. If you get a kitty door, be sure and get one that you can lock...there may be times that you won't want to let them out for one reason or another.

Best Regards, Les

__________________
SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Just remember that other critters can also use the kitty door.

i'll welcome any recommendations anyone has for cat doors.
gotta keep bugs n hot n cold air out.
other critters too.
drifter brings plenty of wild life in, as it is.

__________________
susie

14 hours after i picked the cats up, everything was switched around.
the effects of the anesthetic were gone.
cud was odd but more or less normal, able to leap onto n off high furniture.
drifter as feeling the effects of surgery n not doing gret, tho she could walk fine.
i have no idea if drifter is alive.
she has disappeared.
she didn't come to this morn's supper call.
i can't find her.
i guess moving furniture will find her, but i'm crippled up from yesterday.
before yesterday's trauma, she would have come for sure, but i can't predict what she'll do, if alive.

__________________
susie

They don't hate you because they don't connect their discomfort to you. They shouldn't be out for at least a week in a safe fenced suburban backyard. You have predators in your area. To preserve their lives, I'd wait 2 weeks because their immune systems are low for at least 2-3 weeks and their responses will be slowed for at least 4 weeks while their hormones are rebalancing and getting used to the chemical effects of not having their sex organs. Normally a vet won't allow surgical patients to leave before they drink water. Dehydration is very debilitating after surgery. It slows down the excretion of the anesthesia and makes them dopey longer than usual. If you have an oral syringe or a clean dropper from a bottle, place cool water between their cheek and gum to give them (about a teaspoon) of water several times a day till they're drinking on their own. Water is even more important than food if they're dehydrated. See how they do and don't think you did the wrong thing because you didn't. They'll come along in time and get back to their happy selves. They probably miss the other kits too.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

I didn't see your most recent post before I posted mine so I didn't know about drifter missing. I hope she's turned up by now ... Maybe she can be tempted with tuna. The surgery is more complex with a female than a male which is external, so she'll be sore for longer than cud. Let us know when you find her. They often hide in closets, or basements. Are you sure she didn't get outside? She could be looking for her kits even though she saw you hand them off.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

well. drifter is alive . she is barricaded inside the bathroom cabinets .
she won't come out.
i could get her out, but only with a big fight.
i put some food n water in there.
don't be sure i have a kitty anymore.
i must keep her in, because if she gets out i'll never see her again.
she hates me. when my hand was in the cabinet, she prepared to fight.
no way will she let me touch her.
this has nothing to do with her pain.
she has not forgotten the treachery.

__________________
susie

Give her food and water and she will come around in time. I don't have specific experience with ferals. Maybe Jen can give you further advice. I wouldn't let her outside until she has fully healed (2 weeks) and has gone back to her normal personality. If you let her outside before that, you n may be right about her not coming back. Or it may all be hormonal. Hormones control certain responses and she doesn't feel normal right now, and may not, for 4 weeks after her surgery because her hormones are changing and her brain is ruled by Hormones right now. Give her time. I don't think she mistrusts you...I think it's biochemical... Put a litter box where she is if needs be and let her have her space..

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

drifter has food, water n litter cose by.
but she is acting just like i feared she would.
she lost all trust in me.
she wants me nowhere near, as i broke our contract n she knows it.
she has ventured out of the cabinet but will not tolerate my presence.
she is at the far end of the house.
as far as she can get from me without being outdoors.
drifter is not like other cats. she is not a pet.
she is a separate person, very smart n willful.
she may never forget me forcing her into the carrier.

__________________
susie

She will be ok in time. You must give her time. But redbert is right, don't let her out of the house for a couple of weeks. Because she was older when she was spayed, she will behave differently than a young cat.

Let her see that you are there for her, and she will eventually come around.

As far as the carrier goes, when I have to put a cat in, I always do it backward, holding them so that they are facing me, and put their back end in first. Don't try to put their head in first. This makes all the difference.

I think everything is going to be OK, susie.

Best Regards, Les

__________________
SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

She will come around, she will trust you again. Animals sense emotions. If she is still hanging out in the bathroom spend 15 mins in there every couple hours (as you can) and just talk to her in a soft soothing voice. Strangely, they respond to "baby talk" too. I know that sounds completely ludicrous but in my experience, it works.

Is drifter eating, drinking, and using the litter box? adding water to wet food can help get extra water in her if she stopped drinking milk like she used to. Those are key especially drinking and using litterbox as cats shut down easily which can be dangerous. Even though they seem tough, they are actually very sensitive creatures. Ferals too.

I have never had a feral hate me for getting them fixed, and some of them were older too. After I release them, they might run away for a couple days but they always have come back and are not fearful of me, though sometimes I do have to show that I am only going to feed them and take care of them. They always come around.

Please do keep them in the house until you know Drifter is doing better, and agree with Redbert that 2 weeks would be best if possible. They will smell from their incision initially and predators (yotes) will be able to pick that up.

I really hope Drifter is doing better, and you too. You made their lives better. You honestly did. I am not saying that because I am trying to push a spay/neuter agenda. I am saying that because cats die in childbirth just as humans do. They get reproductive cancer etc. Now they can focus on living and not on kittens.

Any animal, particularly wild ones retreat into hiding during the healing process.. Be patient. When Drifter feels better, she'll be back to her normal aloof state.

__________________
Eccentric old coot

i'm not sure if dritr's eating. she did drink her milk tho.
it's her fav.
once again, i have no idea where she is.
once i find her hide out, she finds another.
i have lost all the trust we had built up.
cud is completely back to normal.
i'll probably let him out soon. he's fighting to get out.
i'm not worried about him.
out there by himself, he won't leave the garden.
he thinks the house is home.
the house is just one possible den for drifter.
she has a comfy home outside.
she has spent a long heavy storm outside, with heavy rain, but came in dry.

__________________
susie

Drifter is also feeling your stress about thinking you let her down. There is one way that Jackson Galaxy (who understands cats more than anyone I have ever seen) recommends to reinforce mutual trust. You can do it while talking softly or do it while remaining silent. Open and close your eyes slowly and repeatedly while facing in her direction. Do it for a couple of minutes every time you are in her presence. It's cat body language for "I love you and trust you". She will eventually return the gesture and you will know that that feeling is reciprocated. It may take a while but it always works ( try it on cud first, he may do it right away) If you are able to watch "Cat from hell" on TV or on the internet, that is Jackson Galaxy's program. If I find his site, I will send it to you.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

as of now, drifter refuses to be in my presence long enow for fancy ploys.
i'll keep her in for a week or two, but thats all i can do.
she lives here by choice.
she has always been free to go.
i can bend this for a while, but i won't betray her again.

__________________
susie

On You tube, there is an episode "4 ways to tell your cat I love you". It is the one where Jackson Galaxy demonstrates the gesture I was talking about. It says "the slow blink" across the picture of a cat... Watch it if you can get.. You tube.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

thanks linda, but those are get acquainted things.
drifter already knows me well.

the vet just called. she said 4 days inside should be plenty, except for drifyter;s psychological thing.

__________________
susie

YAY! Things are getting back to normal/
cud is being a cud.
we cuddled thru the night.
i now understand why cats are supposed to be kept away from new borns
every so often, i woke with a cat covering my mouth n nose.
don't like that much.
the great news is that drifter strolled thru the living room while i was there.
i didn't push things.
i stayed away, just getting up to pour her a bowl of milk.
milk is a great training aid for cats that can tolerate it.
she never passes it up.

i'm wondering if cats can make a mess on purpose.
i have shelves built into the junk room.
every 2' from the floor n 2' deep.
3 shelves.
she hides behind stuff on the 4' shelf.
i see that every single thing that a cat can move has been moved, tumbled onto the floor.
there is a huge debris field on the floor.
if drifter did this, it was an attack.
she has spent time there for months, with noting ever out of place.
it might have been cud tho.
he's clumsy enow to knock something down by accident.
this was no accident tho.
i have lots of stuff stored in wine cases, that hold 12 bottles of wine.
too big to move unless someone was having fun.
these were on the floor.

__________________
susie

Over 30 years ago, Squeak (she did not really meow; weaned too young), aka the Squeaker of the House, Evil Demon Kitty, etc., knocked a bunch of my wife's import 45s (vinyl, not guns) on the floor, and her dog, Tiny (rott X Springer, and somewhat odd from that mix and her upbringing) chewed them all up. I am sure it was a joint effort, as Tiny had bad hips and could never have jumped up there. It was because they were annoyed at being left alone.

__________________
NHI, 10-8.

They do let us know when they are annoyed with us! Glad drifter came out and seems to be normalizing her mood. Your shelving area demolition probably was a team effort... Maybe cud invaded drifters hiding place that started it.. Are you letting her outside today? I don't think she'd leave permanently, just might take a break from recent captivity. Good luck... I'll be thinking about you all.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

cud has been going out for a few minutes at a time.
unless drifter or i are outside, he gets worried n wants to come in.
drifter just asked to go out.
they are both investigating the garden in the morning cool.

i had planned to let drifter out soon, but our deal has always been based on freedom of movement, so i couldn't refuse her.
they were out only 15 minutes as i typed this when i heard cud scratching to come in.
they were both ready to come in.
drifter now knows she can leave if she wants so she can relax.

once the weather moderates, i'll explain to them that cats need to be outside during the daylight hours.
they can't do their work indoors.

you know, if i could have trained the other kits to stay outside all the time i might have kept them.
i still need outdoor only cats.

__________________
susie

I'm glad that they've gone out and come back again. You have restored drifters trust and it looks like things are happily on the right track. Thank God!

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Happy Fourth of July to you, Drifter and Cud as well as all the folks on this thread 🦅️

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

7 DAYS POST OP
14 DAYS 2 CAT HOUSEHOLD
things are more or less normal. cud cuddles,
drifter watches movies with me.
she just likes my old B movies.
she leaves if there are bursts of laughter or gunfire.
neither cat will spend much time outdoors during the day.
they are not doing their jobs/ they like going out at twilight tho.
i have to coax drifter in at bedtime.
i won't coax cud.
he spends the night outside, nopefully hunting.
cud is sometimes stupid. i called him in n he was on the roof crying because he couldn't get to me.
that;s too high to use rge step ladder like he wanted.
i had to walk back to the big ladder so he could see he could come that way.
on the other hand, he uses the bathroom cabinets as a cave.
when drifter hid in there, i thot i had left the door open.
not so.
these doors are spring operated . if not fully open the spring closes them.
but i just watched cud open a closed door enow to get in. the door closed behind him.
that's a great hiding place for people that can operate spring doors.
i think drifter is staying in because of the 100 degree days.
i hope she will soon be on her normal schedule.
i'll keep cud working nights to give me 24 hour/day day garden coverage.
thing is, grapes n figs will ripen soon.
i need a cat out there days to deter birds.

__________________
susie

It looks like much of your life has gotten back to normal except for the cats going out that much but that will probably resolve when cooler weather comes.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

How's the kitty situation going?

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

cuddles has made a place for himself here.
he wants to be outside nights, inside days.
this is a bit dangerous but he seems to mostly stay in the garden or on the roof.
i'm very happy to see him killing to eat. i saw him chomping on a lizard yesterday n today i found half a mouse.
this was his kill. drifter eats the whole mouse but cud eats just the front half, probably because i feed him well.
i've had to adjust around him.
drifter has been going out morns n afternoons.
it's hard to coax her in when cud is out there.
she likes his company n doesn;t see him that much since she hunts mostly outside the garden.
i put them back on twice/day feeding.
breakfast is at 7am n they get nothing til t gets dark, so they will come in
for supper.
cud leaves immediately after. drifter stays in til morn, as she has always done.
as the weather cools, i think drifter will be out all day, so my garden will have 24 hours/ day coverage.
that means there is always one cat inside, but they tire themselves outdoors, so they mostly sleep. sometimes with me, sometimes hiding somewhere.
this is working.

__________________
susie

Sounds to me like everything is working out pretty good out there on the high plains!! So glad to see that drifter and cuddles have made an apparent complete comeback from their surgery. I sure wish all of you guys the best of everything!!

Now....we need to see a couple of pictures of the family!!

Best Regards, Les

__________________
SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

i'll try for a pic.
cud is growing fast. already bigger than drifter.
you know, i'm glad neutering costs so much.
if it was cheaper, i might have tried to keep 3 cats.
that would never work for me unless one was exclusively outside.
drifter needs a playmate sometimes.
i cuddle, but i do't play.
the best part is she lets me feed cud.
i tried feeding cowboy n stripes.
she wouldn't allow that.
she always has plenty, but she didn't care.

__________________
susie

I'm glad the kitties have settled into a routine and everything is working for you and them and your fruit in the garden

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Happy Days are here again! Good news.

__________________
S&WHF 366

How about the big cat, does he still come around?

the armed guard is on the look out for stray cats.
i'd tend them if drifter let me, but if they attack my household, they die.
little drifter is ferocious but probably doesn't smell like a girl anymore.
cuddles is gonna be huge, but is still a sissy.
the problem is i probably can't hear a fight with the a/c running.
i wanted to keep cud indoors at night, but he's insistant about working nights.

__________________
susie

At least 2 new kittens have arrived at my shop,not sure where they are hiding but hope they keep hidden from the eagles.

__________________
Hue 68 noli me tangere

vonn, details, please/

__________________
susie

My shop is located by a storage yard,boats,motor homes,travel trailers,etc., and a tortoise shell female feral cat lives and hunts there. She had three kittens earlier this year and I fed and watered them until they were nearly grown but a nesting pair of bald eagles also live close by and hunt in a field next door. I have seen the eagles catch animals on a few occasions and I think they got the cats. She now has at least two very small kittens I have seen. The eagles haven’t been hunting around here lately and their babies may be on the hunt also.

__________________
Hue 68 noli me tangere

I hope the eagles don't get the little ones. They can lift over 5 lbs. So I hope they're well hidden. Maybe the eagles found some rodents instead

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

i'd never worry about drifter with eagles.
she understands cover.
she even understands overhead cover.
i once posted how she relaxes under bushes, never in the open.
cud would get eaten quick.
i'm not sure he understands that there are things that want to eat him.
drifter knows this in her bones. it took a while to convince her that i wouldn;t eat her.

you know, it appears that cats aren't affectionate because we think of dogs n how they show affection.
my guys show affection by sleeping on me n each other.
they sometimes nap alone but usually want physical contact with the rest of the family.
they clearly think of us 3 s a unit.
i never understood that cats like touching.
drifter has always enjoyed my company, but usually at a distance.
it's quite interesting to see they act toward me much the same as to each other.
drifter didn't like the group but she likes cud fine.

__________________
susie

I agree.. Cud is the one I worry about with eagles and other flying predators... Drifter is very wise in the ways of the outside world. It's so wonderful that your family of 3 is a solid unit and that everyone is well and happy with each other.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk