Purchase a firearm and FFL receives it. If the FFL then becomes incapacitated or dies what is the procedure to get the firearm transferred?

Purchased online GrabAgun Texas.
Sent to FFL Tennessee.
Home operated FFL
Assuming FFL set up as sole proprietorship
No relatives in house other than wife who is clueless

I would think the quickest way would be if a relative could get the gun, have them take it to another FFL.

Copy/paste from another forum on the same topic


Depends on how his business was set up. If he was a sole proprietor, the business dies with him. If its an LLC or corporation, they are treated as a separate "person" in the eyes of the law, and another officer of the company can do the transfer. The bottom line is, the gun crossed a state line and has to be transfered through a dealer before you can legally take possession of it. The BATFEWHOSBRINGINGTHECHIPS may be of some help in this situation. If you can't find a local dealer to do the transfer, a call to the closest field office may be of some use.

OUTCOME

I contacted the ATF Office in Vegas, a couple of days later I recieved a call that I could pick up my weapon from the other dealer. I really don't know what went on.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Ouija board.

I don't know for sure but I would think you'd put in a claim against the Estate.

I'm sure there's a procedure in place. I'm sure this happens often but not to FFLs. Like if an electronics repair shop operator died

__________________
Retired Career Security Guard

I would make a call to the local office of the ATF. Really. They are not that bad and can actually help. I called them years ago to clarify a ATF policy/'procedure, they were nice and provided the answer.

If you paid by credit card I would call them also and stop the process.

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

Hope you mean for the FFL fee and not the gun purchase, right?

The original seller shouldn't be punished.....not their problem at all. Their obligation seems fulfilled.

I once sent a computer in for warranty repair. The business folded. With no source of contact for getting my computer back, I filed an insurance claim with my insurance company. They weren't happy about it, but they did buy me a new computer.

__________________
NRA Benefactor

No, not to "punish" the seller but in my view the buyer did not get the item he paid for. I would think the BATFE would have the firearm sent back to the seller as no transfer can take place. If I buy something online and it is lost by the shipper (UPS FedEX) I am not gonna pay my credit card until I get it. The shipper can take forever filing a claim.

But have no idea which is why I suggest calling them, there must be a procedure or policy in place for this situation,

Let the speculation continue.

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

Call your friends at BATF. That's the only true answer you'll get that will get you your gun and keep you out of the hoosegow(?) in the process.
There has to be a procedure. You just need to find the person who knows what it is.

Just a guess, but if problems persist with the widow, maybe the simplest thing is for the widow to return it to the sender's FFL, where it could be re-shipped to another FFL??

Good luck.

Some night when nobody is there a break in could occur. I didn't say that.
Actually you might get with the widow or a family member and offer to help them get the problem with the guns sitting for transfer taken care of.

WOW, that's a tough one. If the widow doesn't hold a license then I would think that she can be of no help. She does not have the right to transfer the gun and does not have the ability to ship it back.

I agree with those that suggest a call to the local BATF office to see what they recommend. I am sure that this is not the first time that an FFL has passed with pending transactions. There must be a remedy.

__________________
James Redfield
LM #497

My LGS owner ( a sole propreiter) died 3 weeks ago. He was a very close friend as is his son who worked for him for years. The son called me very soon after the death (few minutes actually) since I'd done legal work for his Dad. I was on the road at the time but told him first thing was to instruct the store employees not to sell any firearms until we sorted out if they could. Contacted the ATF field office and turned out the owner had put his son on the FFL several years ago. That coupled with appointing the son as Special Administrator to handle the shop business allowed things to proceed. ( My buddy's significant other was appointed executrix under the Will). Had the son not been on the FFL, no sales could occur.

Yeah, you did. Not funny . . .

__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Except it wasn't lost in shipment and the seller fulfilled their obligation by sending it to YOUR choice of a FFL and it was received.

I had a similar experience back when I was a non-immigrant alien. Very helpful.

__________________
Release the Kraken

The "item" can sit in limbo for who knows how long??

If you want to pay for something that is never received, than that's your choice. A transfer can not be made until the Govt or the Law makes a decision.

It's what I would do, not what you have to do.

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

Well I think a lot depends on whether the FFL was incapacitated before or after the gun was logged in. If before log in, I would instruct the widow to ship the gun (at my expense) back to grabagun and then start over. If the gun was logged in.......Well I just don't know. It is now on his books and I would coordinate with the ATF and the estate (or curatorship) laws of the state of residence. Assuming sole proprietor. I would think that , as in law with a sole practitioner, there is a designated FFL to take over just in this instance-but then again many people just don't think that far in advance. My wife ia a licensed attorney so we have a succession plan in case something happens to me, but I imagine that most solos don't and it can be a real nightmare!
Good luck-and remember it is not a financial catastrophe by any means. You are only out less than a grand and although aggravating to the extreme, it is not life changing.
This fits squarely in the category of "Stuff happens"

__________________
Forum consigliere

Phil, long story so bear with me.

Many years ago I worked at a gun shop part time. An employee delivered a gun to a customer who had not been a resident of this state for 90 days. A week later this customer tried to buy a gun at another gun shop and was told that he would have to wait until he was a resident for 90 days. The customer replied that he just bought a gun at another store with no problem. Little did he know that an ATF agent was standing next to him.

The agent followed the customer outside, identified himself and explained the situation to him. The agent then followed the customer home, took possession of the gun and verified that the customer had two weeks to go before he was a resident. The agent informed him that he would deliver the gun back to the gun shop and he could pick it up in two weeks.

I happened to be working when the agent walked in with a smile and gun in hand. He asked to see the owner. The owner was out so I took the gun and put it away. Two weeks later the customer picked up the gun.

My point is, like mentioned previously, I would contact the ATF. See if they can do the same although I don't think it will be a quick process.

__________________
Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

ATF or INS

So you got "in" before the Wall?? j/k

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

This makes sense to me

__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

I would not tell anyone to do anything until BATFE said I could

__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

That's interesting.

The plot thickens. It was delivered to the FFL's home but his wife signed for it. I'd have to guess the firearm was not logged in since he was already in the hospital. Elderly and may not survive.

This is a close friend's gun but I also deal with a one man FFL operation so I was curious to know what were the actual steps involved to get the firearm transferred. It's crossed my mind a couple times... particularly dealing with Class III. What if...

But you cannot blame the seller or penalize him - he is then out the goods AND the money - this is all on your end after the seller's portion has been concluded successfully.

This story is a recount from a work acquaintance whose uncle was a Class 3 Title II NFA dealer. The fellow specialized in Pre Hughes Amendment NFA firearms. He was a sole proprietor even though his wife worked with him in his store. Well, needless to say, the fellow went on a long dirt nap. The wife is now stuck with hundreds of thousands of dollars of FA weapons. They were marital assets and the state awarded her the assets of the gun store. But, because she didn't have any kind of FFL she couldn't sell any of the NFA weaponry.

I wish there was a happy ending to this story. But, I simply don't know how it ended up. I do know that at one point another NFA dealer offered her pennies on the dollar for the inventory. She was afraid to contact the ATF because ownership transfer taxes nor any other NFA requirements had been met. So, there may be a room full of NFA weapons sitting somewhere in South Carolina that are on the pre-ban "list". I have no clue as to their exact whereabouts or how one would go about acquiring one or more. I strongly suspect the wife is doing her dirt nap now as well.

__________________
NRA Benefactor

Not really, the firearm has not been transferred, it is I believe the receiving FFL property until a 4473 is done.

Only until the situation is resolved.



Lets say I order from Brownells, $500 order (not a gun) they charge my credit card.
Package is delivered to my door, I am not home and some thief steals it.
FedEx states it is delivered, not their problem,
Brownells sent it, Not their problem.
So it is now my problem,

I call the Police, not much they can do.

I call VISA OR MASTERCARD

MEMBERSHIP HAS IT'S PRIVILEGES

But this is not really the issue here. so moving on.

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

Not the same thing - the package wasn't stolen or delivered to you damaged. The legal issue is on YOUR end of the transaction. The seller is under no obligation. His part of the contractual arrangement was handled legally, properly, and in a timely manner.

I have sometimes wondered what I should do if someone were to mistakenly ship a gun to me direct instead of to the local FFL

__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

I agree with those that feel that the Sellers obligations have been met. He sent the gun after payment was received and it was received by the Buyers FFL. Whether logged in or not the Seller has done all that was asked. Lets just say that the gun had a scope. The receiving FFL opens the package and drops the gun on the floor breaking the scope. Would the Seller be obligated to replace the scope? I don't think so.

The failure to complete the transfer to the Buyer is on the Buyers end not the Sellers. Had the gun not made it to the destination then maybe the Seller would have some blame as the shipper but the gun arrived and the ball is in their court now. The receiving FFL's inability to transfer the gun is on him or his heirs. The legal ramifications can only be solved by the BATFE.

__________________
James Redfield
LM #497

Is the sellers responsibilty done if he sends you a gun not as advertised, or has issues? How do I determine if no issues exist if I can't see the merchandise?
My FFL does no paperwork until he gets my ok, and if not the gun goes back. Of course if the seller said all sales final that's a horse of a different color.

__________________
Sure you did

Each state of course is very different but ..... where I'm at Brownell's has at least a civil case against you and maybe fraud or theft by deception.

People really really need to think things through and consult their "powers that be".

And I agree ..... bad situation for all involved. Cajun is right ..... inconvenience at most and not the end of the world.

Your FFL MUST log the gun in, regardless of whether or not you return it as part of a non-firing inspection period or not.

No one said you couldn't SEE the gun - you just can't take possession of it at the moment.

You would immediately take the unopened package to your FFL where the transaction process would take place.

I read all these threads, sounds like some good advice in some of them. Only thing I can add is you might be starting a run of bad luck, be real careful around guns for awhile, maybe. Sure hope you get everything straightened out to your satisfaction.

__________________
Just a shooter