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Old 09-24-2017, 10:51 AM
Wyatt Burp Wyatt Burp is offline
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Default "The Boer War: An Excellent documentary

This documentary on this very brutal, sad war is excellent. No reenacting and it has descendants of those who fought walking the very battle sites where their ancestors fought and died. It shows the sites as they look today describing battle tactics and deadly blunders. There are many overlapping parallels to almost every conflict we've had in our country. It features film footage of the British and lots of photos of the Boers. Many things to see here. British arrogance against an enemy who's tactics they did not anticipate, extreme racism on both sides, and the atrocity of British prison camps. Just a great docum. of this terrible almost forgotten war soon overshadowed by WW1. It's in 4 parts of about 49 mins. each.

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Old 09-24-2017, 03:23 PM
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In 1980, a little Australian film was released, and although it didn't have a lot of commercial success in this country, it's gone on to achieve a sort of cult film status.

Breaker Morant tells the story of the 1902 court martial of British lieutenants Harry Morant, Peter Handcock, and George Witton. They were charged with murdering Boer prisoners and a German chaplain.

It's a great film, seldom seen on television now. I'd suggest watching it if you get a chance.

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Old 09-24-2017, 06:17 PM
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In 1980, a little Australian film was released, and although it didn't have a lot of commercial success in this country, it's gone on to achieve a sort of cult film status.

Breaker Morant tells the story of the 1902 court martial of British lieutenants Harry Morant, Peter Handcock, and George Witton. They were charged with murdering Boer prisoners and a German chaplain.

It's a great film, seldom seen on television now. I'd suggest watching it if you get a chance.

Breaker Morant (1980) (VHS Trailer) - YouTube
Thanks. I'll watch it. I remember it and that it starred a guy who was in an American crime drama show. He was like a specialist at something covert. "Edward something".
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:35 PM
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Thanks. I'll watch it. I remember it and that it starred a guy who was in an American crime drama show. He was like a specialist at something covert. "Edward something".

The Equalizer
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:38 PM
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There are many parallels between the Boer War and Vietnam.
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:44 PM
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Is this about pigs? That's what I always think when I hear "Boer" lol!! Like "boar", yeah... I'm a millennial, you cantankerous old pharts are right about us.
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:44 PM
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In 1980, a little Australian film was released, and although it didn't have a lot of commercial success in this country, it's gone on to achieve a sort of cult film status.

Breaker Morant tells the story of the 1902 court martial of British lieutenants Harry Morant, Peter Handcock, and George Witton. They were charged with murdering Boer prisoners and a German chaplain.

It's a great film, seldom seen on television now. I'd suggest watching it if you get a chance.

Breaker Morant (1980) (VHS Trailer) - YouTube
I have Breaker Morant on DVD....watch it about once a year and along with Zulu I never tire of it.

"I'll tell you what rule we applied Sir! We applied Rule 303! We caught them and we shot them under Rule 303!

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Old 09-24-2017, 06:50 PM
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Thanks. I'll watch it. I remember it and that it starred a guy who was in an American crime drama show. He was like a specialist at something covert. "Edward something".
He was Edward Woodward, and he had two successful series on television.

One was a British television show titled Callan, in which he played a secret service agent.

I've always considered him to be an astonishingly good actor. In Breaker Morant, he epitomized the hate, disdain, and prejudice the British had for the Boers. I believe the real Harry Morant is responsible for the term, "Rule 303"...stating during his court martial, "We shot them under Rule 303." "303" is, of course, referring to the .303 Lee Enfield rifle.



The other was the American series, The Equalizer. It ran in the mid- to late-eighties, and he played a former intelligence officer. He was somewhat of a vigilante in this series. He was older when he played in this series, and I actually think his age gave him a more dangerous look.

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Old 09-24-2017, 07:36 PM
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The Boer War documentary is on You Tube:
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Old 09-24-2017, 07:42 PM
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Is this about pigs? That's what I always think when I hear "Boer" lol!! Like "boar", yeah... I'm a millennial, you cantankerous old pharts are right about us.
Some things (should) go without being said.....
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Old 09-24-2017, 09:57 PM
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Does it include anything about Winston Churchill's capture and escape?
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Old 09-24-2017, 10:58 PM
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I owned a man all-matching Boer War Mauser years ago...kick myself for parting with it.
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Old 09-24-2017, 11:31 PM
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The British caught hell for using expanding "Dum-Dum" bullets on the Boers:
"The Anglo-Boer War offered the first opportunity for the large-scale use of modern small arms. The large, soft, leaden bullet of previous wars was replaced by the small calibre, ogival-shaped, nickel-jacketed projectile. Because the cartridges were smaller and lighter, more of them could be fired per unit time, which increased the number of wounded.

The 7mm Model 96 Mauser - generally used by the Boers - and the British army service rifle, the .303-inch Lee-Enfield, fired bullets similar in shape; the latter having a slightly greater mass, the former having a higher velocity. As wounding results from the release of kinetic energy, it is obvious that both these bullets had more or less the same effect.

Professor JC de Villiers - The modern rifle bullet" - says the destructive effect of a bullet on tissue is related to the resistance which it offers to the bullet`s flight. Any irregularity of the bullet would cause more energy to be expended in the tissues thereby resulting in greater damage. The new, non-expanding bullets, sometimes caused little tissue damage. At an average velocity - when fired from a fairly long distance - these bullets were found to produce clear-cut entrance and exit wounds of almost equal size.

At short range, however, when their velocity was still very high and their effect - particularly on a closed cavity such as the skull or a solid organ - could be explosive. Increasing experience showed that the distance from which the bullet was fired was extremely important.

There were instances of lung and abdomen wounds, where the patient had hardly any reaction; He concludes that: Many of the stories on expanding bullets might have been unfounded as ricochet bullets or the effect of bone being struck and shattering could cause massive wounds."

The dum-dum bullet was developed by the British military and patented in 1897 by Captain Bertie-Clay of the Indian ammunition works at the town of Dum Dum in India.

General Sir Henry Backenbury describes its origins: "Owing to the experience of the Chitral campaign in 1895, it was considered desirable that we should have a more deadly bullet than the ordinary Mark II. It had insufficient stopping power over the rush of Ghazis and accordingly in this country, as well as in India, an effort was made to find a satisfactory bullet, which would have a more deadly effect.

In India, they produced the Dum-Dum ammunition, in which the head of the bullet is not covered by the nickel envelope. In England, the bullet had a small cylindrical hole in the lead at the top, which was not covered over with nickel. This was the Mark IV, an expanding bullet."

In 1899 Britain had a stock of 172 000 000 expanding bullets, of which 66 000 000 had been delivered to British bases worldwide."

The Mark IV soft expanding bullet disintegrated when it entered a man's body. It mushroomed on impact causing terrible wounds and was thought to be too vicious to inflict upon one another. Boer War expert Thomas Pakenham says Britain accepted that, for a white man's war", it had certain moral force" (251). It had previously been used on India's North West Frontier and in the Sudan in 1897.

The Laws of war at the Hague Convention of 29th July 1899 is contained in the Declaration on the use of bullets. The Contracting parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions." However, since neither the Boers nor the British had not been signatories, they were not bound by the convention. "
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Old 09-25-2017, 10:06 AM
Wyatt Burp Wyatt Burp is offline
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Does it include anything about Winston Churchill's capture and escape?
It does get into Churchill's capture and escape showing the exact spot today where the train attack happened. I think there's a monument there. Churchill pops up other times, too. But, his escape on a train is a great story in itself. I remember reading how he took a chance approaching some houses and by luck for him the house he went to was the only British one or Brit. sympathizer of them all. Then those people helping him get back hidden on that train. My memory is vague on the details, though.

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Old 09-25-2017, 01:37 PM
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If you care to read about it, I highly recommend "The Boer War" by Thomas Parkenham. It's an exhaustive book and it leaves you with a pretty good understandin of the war and it's causes. I've read it twice.

Then I went out and bought some Mausers.

Ed
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Old 09-25-2017, 01:50 PM
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Default These add some extra class to the movie....

In prison cell I sadly sit,
A d__d crest-fallen chappie!
And own to you I feel a bit-
A little bit - unhappy!


It really ain't the place nor time
To reel off rhyming diction -
But yet we'll write a final rhyme
Whilst waiting cru-ci-fixion!


But we bequeath a parting tip
For sound advice of such men,
Who come across in transport ship
To polish off the Dutchmen!


If you encounter any Boers
You really must not loot 'em!
And if you wish to leave these shores,
For pity's sake, DON'T SHOOT 'EM!!

----------------------------


Oh those rides across the river,
but a shallow stream runs wide,
and a sunset's beams were glossing
strips of sand on either side


We would cross that sparkling river,
on a brown horse and a bay;
watch the willows sway and shiver
and the trembling shadows play.


These are memories to be hoarded
of a foolish tale and fond,
'Til another creek be forded,
and we reach the Great Beyond.
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Old 09-25-2017, 01:59 PM
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If you care to read about it, I highly recommend "The Boer War" by Thomas Parkenham. It's an exhaustive book and it leaves you with a pretty good understandin of the war and it's causes. I've read it twice.

Then I went out and bought some Mausers.

Ed
How 'bout some Enfields.....303?
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:57 PM
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Harry Harbord (The Breaker) Morant was quite the poet. He was no Kipling, of course, but he did have his work published. His poems were usually referred to as "Bush Ballads". Although I say he was no Kipling, to me his poems have something of that same cadence, that sort of lilting sing-song rhythm. Some of it is horribly maudlin for today's tastes, but it apparently went over well in his time. He was something of a rabble-rouser, drinker, and womanizer, and the fact that he seemed to show a more genteel side of himself with his poetry appealed to the ladies of the day.

He got the nickname "The Breaker", or simply "Breaker" because he was extremely good at breaking in the most ornery of horses, and he was a drover of some repute.

Morant never denied shooting the Boer prisoners after their surrender. He apparently did it out of revenge for their having killed and mutilated his best friend. Now, whether or not the prisoners he shot were the ones who killed his friend...well, I'm not sure about that.

Harry Morant was only 37-years-old when he and Peter Handcock were executed by firing squad on the morning of February 27, 1902.


Harry "The Breaker" Morant






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Old 09-25-2017, 03:10 PM
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Let's toss a bumper down our throat, -
Before we pass to Heaven,
And toast: "The trim-set petticoat
We leave behind in Devon."

BUTCHERED TO MAKE A DUTCHMAN'S HOLIDAY by Harry ("Breaker") Morant (1864? - 1902)
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Old 09-25-2017, 03:17 PM
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Does it include anything about Winston Churchill's capture and escape?


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Originally Posted by Wyatt Burp View Post
It does get into Churchill's capture and escape showing the exact spot today where the train attack happened. I think there's a monument there. Churchill pops up other times, too. But, his escape on a train is a great story in itself. I remember reading how he took a chance approaching some houses and by luck for him the house he went to was the only British one or Brit. sympathizer of them all. Then those people helping him get back hidden on that train. My memory is vague on the details, though.


I just read a great book about this:

Hero of the Empire




Could not put it down

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Old 09-25-2017, 03:31 PM
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Let's toss a bumper down our throat, -
Before we pass to Heaven,
And toast: "The trim-set petticoat
We leave behind in Devon."
It does have a rhythm to it, doesn't it? What I like about this one, and what's interesting to me, is that if you're reciting it aloud, you could put the emphasis on different words in each line, and it would still work.

For instance:

Let's toss a bumper down our throats...

or

Let's toss a bumper down our throats...

Well, anyway, it's interesting to me.

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Old 09-25-2017, 03:46 PM
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I just read a great book about this:

Hero of the Empire




Could not put it down
That looks like a good one. Didn't he leave his Broomhandle Mauser on the train but got it back much later? I didn't make clear before that his escape was not mentioned in the documentary but I read it somewhere.
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Old 09-25-2017, 04:53 PM
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That looks like a good one. Didn't he leave his Broomhandle Mauser on the train but got it back much later? I didn't make clear before that his escape was not mentioned in the documentary but I read it somewhere.

Churchill wrote later that his Mauser C-96 was recovered from the train and "I have it by me now" as he wrote back in England. He described its use in the cavalry charge at Omdurman in, "My Early Life." (Published in 1930)

"Man at Arms" had an excellent article some years ago on his handguns. These ranged from a Wilkinson-Webley Model of 1892 to to his Colt .45 auto, bought in 1915. Yes, it in in .45 ACP, not in .455 auto caliber. And in 1951, Colt presented him with a Commander .45.

Jay Framer-

The word Boer doesn't refer to a boar, nor is it pronounced the same. Nor are all Boers/Afrikaaners farmers, although at one time, most were landowners and farmers.

In both the parent Dutch and in Afrikaans, "Boer" just means farmer.

Some examples of whom you may have heard include Paul Kruger, a statesman whose head is on the gold coin bearing his name (Krugerrand) , RAF ace "Sailor" Malan, actress Charlize Theron, and VS models Candice Swanepoel and Behati Prinsloo (Levine). Malan got the nickname of Sailor, as he was in the Merchant Marine prior to joining the Royal Air Force. I believe he was the brother of Daniel Malan, an architect of apartheid. If memory serves, that began in 1948 and ended in 1995.

Last edited by Texas Star; 09-25-2017 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 09-25-2017, 08:17 PM
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Churchill wrote later that his Mauser C-96 was recovered from the train and "I have it by me now" as he wrote back in England. He described its use in the cavalry charge at Omdurman in, "My Early Life." (Published in 1930)

"Man at Arms" had an excellent article some years ago on his handguns. These ranged from a Wilkinson-Webley Model of 1892 to to his Colt .45 auto, bought in 1915. Yes, it in in .45 ACP, not in .455 auto caliber. And in 1951, Colt presented him with a Commander .45.

Jay Framer-

The word Boer doesn't refer to a boar, nor is it pronounced the same. Nor are all Boers/Afrikaaners farmers, although at one time, most were landowners and farmers.

In both the parent Dutch and in Afrikaans, "Boer" just means farmer.

Some examples of whom you may have heard include Paul Kruger, a statesman whose head is on the gold coin bearing his name (Krugerrand) , RAF ace "Sailor" Malan, actress Charlize Theron, and VS models Candice Swanepoel and Behati Prinsloo (Levine). Malan got the nickname of Sailor, as he was in the Merchant Marine prior to joining the Royal Air Force. I believe he was the brother of Daniel Malan, an architect of apartheid. If memory serves, that began in 1948 and ended in 1995.
What do Charlize Theron and Hally Berry have in common? They are both African American women who won best actress Oscars.
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:16 AM
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How 'bout some Enfields.....303?
If you read the book you'll probably only want a Mauser...although I did get an Enfield too.

Ed
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Old 09-26-2017, 01:16 PM
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I watched the first two episodes on the YouTube last night.
Thanks!
A well done doc.
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:40 PM
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If not for the Boer War, Boy Scouts probably would not have been founded. There's your homework assignment for the evening.
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