They be:

1) The Last Battle: By: Stephen Harding. This is the one about the Battle for Schloss Itter-where a small American force is joined by a small German force-to defend a castle-against an SS unit from the 17th SS Panzergrenadier Division.

2) Ardennes 1944: The Battle of the Bulge. By: Anthony Beevor. Ive a few books by Beevor so I know he's a good thorough author.

3) The Devils General. By: Raymond Bagdonas. The Life of Hyazinth Graf von Strachwitz von Gross-Zauch und Camminetz "The Panzer Graf." (Armored Count) Story of one of Grofaz'z best tank officers.

Just having trouble making up my mind which ONE to get for now. Reason only one-as its been an expensive month for me replacing things so can only buy one at this time. All are subjects of high interest to me. What's your opinions if any? on which to get? All are close to the same price.

Did not read the other two but the last battle was a great read.

Your local library is your friend here.

You can get these through your public library, ( inter library loan if your library doesn't have them) and read them for free.

I frequently get books shipped in from universities or remote libraries, at no cost to me.

Then if you want to own one, you can pick.

That's part of the problem, I'm looking to buy-and our local library system is behind the times and doesn't have any of these titles. Last book I bought was about 6 weeks ago and cost me a days pay. Death of the Leaping Horsemen. 1st Ed.

Your local library can get any or all of these books with inter library loan - outside the local system tapping into libraries across the country.

Give it a try!

My wife and daughter have had ordered from outside our small town library .. might take a week or 2 for them to get it but you usually can get most books !

But we do also buy books and have several hundred that we wanted to have our own copy .. book fairs can be a good opportunity to acquire books at a much cheaper price then new !!

Also helps that my son is a journeyman press operator and has the chance to get a book now and then from the company he works for free of charge ..

I vote for #2 only because I have at least one other book by that author and thought it was well written.

Re buying books, also check out abebooks.com. Used books at competitive pricing from all over. All conditions, from new to falling apart.

I do think the public library system is one of the best deals going. Getting the loan of a book from a far off library is easy, free, and only downside is a little patience is required.

Battle of the Bulge by Beevor is available for $2.99 plus shipping from abebooks.com.

I like reading about the Battle of the Bulge so #2 would be my choice. I went to Belgium this past spring and visited the Bulge sites. Stayed in Bastogne for three nights and drove around the countryside. Beautiful country and great people.

If you ever want to read a good book about the Korean War, I recommend "The Last Stand of Fox Company" by Bob Drury and Tom Clavin. It is about the Marines at the Chosin Reservoir. Gives one a good account of what it was like to fight the Chinese in sub zero weather.

Amazon used books are a good buy. Most like new.

Happy reading!

Since I own all three, I would suggest the "Panzer Graf". This is a man who survived tank to tank fighting in the East for most of the Russian-German war. Think Littmann but with a division to command not one tank section. Dave_n

Is that the battle where the myth started that it was so cold that M1 carbine rounds were bouncing off the Chinese soldier's frozen overcoats?

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"The Last Battle" is on my list...

However, this one is a sleeper, well worth the price:
I first heard about him when I got interested in John Boyd's ideas. Although General Hermann Balck was an outstanding Wehrmacht commander throughout WWII, he was most noted for his constant tactical genius on the Russian front against overwhelming Russian forces. He finally agreed to be debriefed by the US military years after the end of the war.

This is a decent thumbnail sketch of Balck's accomplishments, even though it is larded up with ads and pop-ups. http://www.historynet.com/the-greate...r-heard-of.htm

"Order in Chaos" is probably the best military book I have read in years.

Yes but not a myth. A matter of penetration. The Chinese wore heavy quilted uniforms that were reversible white on one side and tan on the other side. Once it was discovered the carbine round wouldn't stop them with a body shot marines with carbines were told to aim for the head. Temps dipped to minus 20 and rifles and machine guns would freeze and not operate. Many of the Chinese had Thompson smgs that the US gave them during WWII. After every attack the marines would gather up weapons from dead and use them. During the 4 day siege by the Chinese on Fox Hill, marines used dead frozen bodies to fortify their fighting holes.
Great book about the bravery of the Marines.

Reading about war is not my thing but I did like the book about "Band of Brothers". Followed the series pretty close.
Big fan of CJ Box, Michael Connelly, Michael Crichton, Vince Flynn and others.
Bob

[QUOTE=VaTom;139781023]Yes but not a myth. A matter of penetration. The Chinese wore heavy quilted uniforms that were reversible white on one side and tan on the other side. Once it was discovered the carbine round wouldn't stop them with a body shot marines with carbines were told to aim for the head./QUOTE]

Carbine rounds may not have "stopped" Chinese infantry, but I agree with Faulkner that bullets bouncing off frozen uniforms is a myth. Freeze a heavy overcoat and try it yourself. Not wearing the coat of course.

I already tried but, they said at least a 6 week wait-not sure why?

All three are on my to get list by November 3rd. I just wanted something to read till then. Ive two Beevor titles-his Stalingrad and Berlin books-dog-eared from rereading many times. Both those battles I cant read enough on though I knw what the outcome is-just with new stuff interjected-same thing with books about Bulge. The Schloss Itter book is fairly recent history for me and I'm highly interested. I read part of it yesterday-mainly reading stuff about Captain Lees-which I was sad to see-he passed away in 1953.

Count von Strachwitz-is one I know much about--his battlefield activities-but want to know his life story-military and combat record-post war life and honors. Instead of buying one book-I'm getting two instead.

Thanks to you all--I'm going to get today-the Devils General-and the Bulge books. Schloss Itter will be by Nov 3rd. BTW--"Devil's General for Strachwitz--really is wrong because-the original Devil's General--was a Luftwaffe General-not an Heer General-but then-I don't care-the story looks good.

On Vince Flynn and the others-ive heard of them but--aren't they fiction writers?? I love war-history fiction but--not into it just now now that I'm finally having a few spare funds to buy books again.

On Strachwitz again--in The Death of the Leaping Horseman, it's mentioned that he was being considered to replace a Panzer Regimental commander in the 24th PzRgmt-so I'm assuming the Devil's General will mention something about that-so I'm curious to find out. Also--that book gives names of the holders of a rare tank badge (Badge badly mis IDed) which gives me some research material that I thrive on. There is no such thing as a Tank Assault Badge in Gold. There IS a Panzer Assault Badge with Diamonds though.......

Totally true about him. I don't recall what title I was skimming through years ago intending t buy-but forgot-but Balck was talking about one of the big early actions on the Eastern Front and at how tough a time his forces were having in some sector of her sector of the front. He mentioned how the Russians just kept popping up here-there and everywhere even after they thought they had cleaned up an area-they still popped up and gave his men hell.

Buying your books used is a great way to increase your library cheaply with good books.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

The library is your friend. I am a fan of Anthony Beevor and the Bulge history. So that would be first, but the others would follow.

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"from my cold dead hands" C.H.

^^^^^^^^^Read post Nr 16, I already tried that route with zero success. I'm NOT waiting 6 weeks. The library system here locally is pretty primitive-6 weeks to get a book-stupid crazy to say the least. I AINT-going back. New books or good used books for me.

Carl, I have not read any of those but I'd like to suggest a 4 title for you to seriously consider. "Delta Force" by Lt. C0l. Charles Beckwith.

And no, it's NOT the basis for the Chuck Norris movie. This is the true life account of the failed hostage attempt to rescue the hostages in Teran in '81. Col. Beckwith is the one that pushed for it, conceive the plan and did all the leg work. Despite his best efforts you'll see that petty jealousy between the branches of military service led directly to the failure.

He had a great plan and was an awesome soldier. He lacked political skills which prevented him from further advancement but after you read the book you will agree that we need more leaders in the military with his focus and determination.

It is the very best non fiction book I ever read. If you don't read this book you may never know the whole story about the even and the man.

Just read it. It's out of print but you can probably order it through Amazon and you may even find it at the library. Let me know if you can't find it anywhere and I'll try to get hold of a copy.

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Real men love cats!

Six weeks for an inter-library loan of a rare book is not outside the norm at any library. The inter-library loan system is not slow because of your library, but because of the system. It's poorly funded because we don't put tax payer's hard earned money into it.

I once interlibrary loaned typed after action reports from 1944 France. I couldn't believe that let me borrow such unique documents.

As for the book choices, I've only read #1 and it was good. Beevor's books on Stalingrad and Berlin were just alright, good survey history. I have no idea of the German general book. Hard to care much about yet another german general's view of the war. Sadly, I'm sure most Americans have read more German general memoirs than American general memoirs.

Check out Amazon - they often have used books by 3rd party sellers and you sometimes save a great deal.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

I used to practically live in libraries from toddlerhood up to retirement. The local one evolved from a basic Carnegie library to a modern building and ultimately doubled again in size. However, in the process it reinvented itself into a "community center" with the library function becoming a secondary one.

Quite frankly, between Amazon and the internet, I'm not sure what roles libraries serve anymore. I understand that the public library in Denver has become a hangout for drug addicts to shoot up and nod off in!

Some months back I went looking for a book on Hal Moore. I was able to locate it on the interlibrary loan system. I provided the local library with all the info and requested it. After about two months and three tries no results and each time I inquired no one knew anything about it. So--I just ordered the item off Amazon and had it in a week.

I suspect that libraries as we knew them are going to go the way of telephone booths, with as little fanfare. Only the librarians will notice.

[quote=Inusuit;139781191]I have heard this "Chinese frozen quilted coat" myth repeated so many times I conducted my own experiment about a dozen years ago. I cut out a 3/5 inch plywood silhouette and covered it with a T shirt, a standard flannel shirt, and a old canvas jacket. I took it to the range one day when the temps were in the teens and hosed it down with water and left it until it was frozen solid. Then I placed a retired Level II ballistic vest over the top and hosed it down and left it until the carrier was frozen. I backed off to 50 yards and triggered off half a dozen rounds of standard .30 carbine ball and they penetrated through the front panel of the ballistic vest, through the ice covered frozen clothing, through the 3/4 inch plywood, out the back side of the frozen clothing, and through the back panel of the ballistic vest.

I was not in Korea and I certainly respect our veterans, but I think the Chinese frozen quilted coat thing is a myth.

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Apologies to the original poster for leading thread on a tangent about Korean War.

I should have explained myself better. No the bullets did not bounce off frozen clothing. Temps at the Chosen resovoir were in the -20 degrees below zero. Effectiveness of all weapons was compromised. Indeed those with carbines were told to take head shots.

Abe's Books.

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"from my cold dead hands" C.H.

No probs, the Korean War is of big interest for me as well and ill be buying books pertaining to it as well.

Ive always wanted that one. Eventually ill get it along with Black Hawk Down and the like. I'm just limited on book funds now that work is getting back to fewer more normalized hours thanks to slower sales and more hires.

Beevors books-Stalingrad especially-was good--Berlin was a bit rushed by the publishers and editors for some reason? The book on the Count m sure will be what I'm looking for-like the book about Erich Alfred Hartmann was for me (The Blond Knight of Germany) was. The book on Strachwicz is needed as a companion piece for Death of the Leaping Horseman book-though the two books have no actual intended connection. The connection is for my research interests.

And your most likely correct on that more Amis do read up on more German Generals than Ami Generals-though Ive read up on the likes of Patton, Ike, Bradley and others to a good extent. Not that I don't have an interest-its more of a research interest more than anything else for me.

The only thing stopping me is that ive been trying to set up an account there but it will not take-and they will not do anything by phone-or I gladly would. Id rather do all most of my online pickings from there, just cant.

Carl, here are three books that I enjoyed that seem to fall in line with what you like so I'm gonna send em to you. I've got an empty box from the grill set you sent me so now I have a use for it.

Enjoy amigo.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

Thank you Rusty, and funny as it sounds-I almost picked up th first and the 3rd titles at Barnes and Nobles earlier-before I found those three listed at top. I have been wanting those others as well. Oh and, ill be getting Ruthie out a small gift in early Nov-after I get Qball and Walkin Jacks things out.

I'd probably go with Beevor, since I've never read a bad book by him.

I did, and also Devil's General. Ill start reading those as soon as I finish with Death of the Leaping Horsemen--which I'm about halfway through. They have just now just battled past Stalingrad's front-most "gates" which the Germans call a Waldchen (wall of bushes.)

I'll be starting "Shanghai 1937, Stalingrad on the Yangtse", about the battle for Shanghai, as soon as I finish the book on the Apache wars. After that comes "Forgotten Ally", about the Chinese in WWII.

Id like to read up on that area sometime. Also-on the actions with Zhukov vs the Japanese.