shooting for 9 mos.- some days quite accurate....some not so much. any suggestions on improving...know about sight picture, trigger press,,etc. Today, range master asked if he could shoot my M&P shield 2.0 -his ammo. He put all 5 shots in a rectangular about the size of a playing card.

Any suggestions on what I might be missing(Oh- lock my wrists also). bad back prevents my former sports, and would like to get really good -be able to put 5 rounds in the card like my friend today

The simple answer is really just concentrating on the basics - proper grip and stance, trigger control, and proper sight picture. Then lots of practice.

Don't push yourself until you are tired or getting sloppy. 3 or 4 shorter sessions are better than one marathon shoot. The fact that the "range master" was able to shoot a good group with your pistol shows the gun is capable of good accuracy. You said he used his own ammo?, might want to try another brand other than what you are using now in the off chance it might make a difference. Try experimenting with different stances - Weaver, modified Weaver, Isosceles. Mainly, its just time behind the trigger that helps show the most improvement.

Larry

One of the hardest things is to know what happens to the muzzle the instant the trigger breaks. Dry fire practice will help with that.

__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

We often see stories of heroic numbers of rounds fired in one session. Might be fun but you won’t improve skill with that sort of approach.

50-75 rounds in a trip to the range is plenty.

Concentrate on basics: grip, sight picture, trigger, breath.

Dry fire daily 20 repetitions.

Less is more.

I can tell you lots of things that may or may not make a bit of difference. Here are four things that are guaranteed to be useful:

(1) Blank target drill. Just use a plain sheet of white paper. Place it far enough away that you can't see the holes without lowering the pistol. Focus on the front sight, squeeze the trigger without stopping, and fire five shots. Now repeat the exercise using a conventional target. If your group is smaller with the blank target, then you're being distracted by the target, causing you to either lose your front-sight focus, or make a start-stop-start (or "interrupted") trigger pull.

(2) Get a journal! Take copious notes on everything. What worked? What didn't? Write about what different subjects actually mean. Take "locking your wrists" for instance--wrists don't lock, but when we talk about doing so, we're obviously talking about something (the best explanation I ever heard came from Brian Zins, and he described it as "intensity of position", which I found interesting as hell).

(3) Develop a course of fire, something that can be scored, and repeat it. A precision shooter might practice the bullseye National Gallery Course. An action pistol shooter might practice the Bill Drill. Whatever applies to what you want to achieve, whether it's a tighter group or a faster time. Record the scores so you can track progress. Save the targets, and analyze groups.

(4) Get instant feedback. When you can't immediately see where a shot went, it's time to change targets. Print them out yourself for cheap, or use paper plates and a marker to make your own.

I know a lot of guys will cry sacrilege, but I don't believe in dry firing for beginners. The reason being, a beginner--and this is just going to sound harsh, because there's no gentle way to phrase it--doesn't know what a good trigger pull is. I shot for many years without having the faintest clue. I shot competitively for several years without knowing. Periodically, I still have to re-discover what a good trigger pull is. And I have spent a bunch of time reinforcing bad habits with dry firing.

RPG and Fishinfool are correct: don't beat yourself up shooting. I'm probably half your age and I can feel it when I've shot too much. And there's no point, you learn nothing doing that. Fitness guys don't do pushups until they can't get their faces off the floor--they do pushups until they can't maintain good form.

Dry fire practice is critical for me. Pay special attention to your sights just after the trigger breaks. They should not move. If they do, you are torquing your pistol by not pulling the trigger straight back. For example, if your front sight jumps to the right then you pulling (pushing) the trigger to the left. Fix that first.

Having your sights lined up with each other is far more important than having your sights aligned with the target. So, concentrate on your sights.

Hope this helps.

Ed

Get involved with a steel challenge/ bowling pin group. They are generally a better group of shooters than the average range crowd, more laid back & don't mind helping out a newbie (to that game). YES there are other shooting sports but these don't require a ton of expensive gear & members "don't " take themselves that seriously. Get some of those shoot-N-see target dots from the range garbage can, put up 6 of the small dots & move from one to the other. Shooting at 1 stationary target is not realistic & makes you kind of rigid, IMO. As posted there are a lot of variables: grip, stance, hold, trigger pull, follow through etc. One that helped me was to find the sweet spot of holding the rear sight in front of your dominant eye & become able to repeat it when moving from target to target. LOTS of practice often, VS shooting high volume a few times a year. And then there's lessons from someone that really knows what they are talking about.

OP, unless i missed it, what distances are you at when in the range? Assuming the Shield is the only gun you're using, are you in the 5-7 yd range (at least as a starting point) or are you out further?
The Shield can be accurate past 7 but it can be more difficult than at shorter self defense type distances.
Not knowing the above, i'd say keep practice in the shorter distances until you build consistency then move the target out further and try it.

I find my Shield can be quite accurate (for me anyway) anywhere under 10 yards, and i can still keep it in the outer rings when going to 20 yds. If anything my eyesight, etc is more of a limitation than the gun is.

Personally I've never spent much time dry-firing, much prefer to get to the range and work with live ammo (as this is a hobby of mine). That's just me though, and I started out with a .22 so dry-fire wasnt an option anyway.

Either way, make sure you practice (and practice using the best form/grip/etc for you).

"BEST" with a D/A revolver IMO. While balancing penny on the barrel +1, a penny on the bbl & blindfolded +2. SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY, don't just check the guns being unloaded with your eyes (they have been known to "lie"), check by feel as well with a finger, & pointed in a direction a hole wouldn't be a biggie.

My wife practiced dry firing with a laser. It doesn't have to be a sight but can be one just taped to the barrel or slide. It will really show gun movement. Larry

It might be a good idea to take a course or work with an instructor/coach one-on-one. They can see what you're doing and make suggestions on strengths and weaknesses in your technique, as well as teach you on what you need to do to improve. If you go this route, it's important to practice what you learn. Some people go to courses or work with instructors but then don't continue practicing.

Similarly, if you have the means to videotape yourself while shooting you might be able to see something while reviewing the tape that you didn't notice while shooting.

And I'll add that dry fire practice is important. I'd suggest ignoring the sights at first. Just watch the gun as you pull the trigger. Make sure you're pulling the trigger straight back, smoothly without hesitation. You don't want to go too fast or too slow. Experiment with how fast you move the trigger. When you can do that without seeing the gun move, then start working with the sights and repeat the process. Doing it consistently, say 5 minutes every day, should help.

At the range, ball-and-dummy drills can help. Mix up live ammo and dummy rounds in your mags (ideally, someone else will do this so you don't know which round is which). Any anticipation and/or flinch issues will become apparent.

Last tip: I've found that if I grip the gun with front-to-back pressure, it helps me with pulling the trigger straight back. I visualize my palm and fingers as the jaws of a vise pressing on the back and front straps, respectively. For two-handed shooting, I visualize my support hand doing the same thing, but side-to-side.

Does that Range Master give lessons? New shooters benefit greatly from education by a certified instructor. You may not know you are doing something not in keeping with good accuracy. It can be as simple as your stance, your grip, your trigger press, etc. Having a qualified instructor watch you shoot and offer recommendations can go a long way to improvement. Just think, why does Tiger Woods see his golfing instructor nearly every week, same as nearly every pro on the PGA circuit. You're never so good that you can't benefit from some instruction, it's easy to develop bad habits.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Breath control has always been a problem for me. Don't overlook that.

Beyond proper sight and trigger use, there are three very important factors to accuracy. They are grip, breathing, and sequence.

Grip - proper grip means your dominant hand puss the gun forward and your reactive hand pushes back. That creates a static aerobic force that keeps the gun steady.

Breath - firing after you have exhaled and before you inhale contributes to accuracy. Holding one’s breath or firing while inhaling deteriorates accuracy.

Sequence - 1) establish the grip, 2) aquire the sight picture, 3) exhale, 4) pull the trigger without jerking the gun.

Jerking the gun is often caused by improper position of the trigger finger on the trigger. There is no specified way as the results vary between people. I place the pas of the first digit on the trigger. Others place the joint between the first and second digits on the trigger. WhenI do that I jerk the gun. Try both ways after you get the first three under control.

How can that be if the gun doesn't fire when dry firing- when gun fires that determines what happens to muzzle - right??

Wrong. The important thing is that the muzzle doesn't move because of your action. The muzzle movement because of firing is consistent. As long as you keep a consistent grip on the pistol.

If it was as you said, no one whould hit anything with a .44 Magnum.
And it is a very accurate caliber.

They say doing something 10,000 times will make you an expert. But doing something wrong 10,000 times will make you an expert at doing it wrong. Get some instruction from a good instructor (good lessons aren't free!) and do what they say! Choose an instructor based on the type of shooting you want to do. There are dozens of disciplines, and some just don't carry over to others. Lastly; avoid free advice. because you get what you pay for!

Ivan

Everything you do affects what happens to the muzzle when you fire. How you pull the trigger, how you grip the gun, etc. The purpose of dry fire practice is to train yourself to pull the trigger straight back while minimizing the movement of the gun. You'll never totally eliminate movement, but if you can minimize the movement and do it consistently, you can improve your marksmanship.

Based on the question you just asked, I HIGHLY recommend you take at least a basic marksmanship course as it seems like you really need some instruction on the fundamentals. At the very least, find a good book or YouTube video.

The Shield is a smaller gun. The smaller the gun, the harder they are to shoot really well. The larger the caliber, the more difficult it is to make a good trigger press.

Good advice already presented is to find an instructor, they can see what you are doing. And I would find a nice .22 revolver, a Smith 17, 18 to practice with, both single and double action. Cheap ammo and less recoil.

The three most important details in good marksmanship are: Trigger press, sight picture and followthrough. Sight picture is easy, pressing the trigger so that you do not disturb your sight picture is difficult and followthrough, which is holding the gun steady through the shot. Anticipating the shot and moving the gun in anticipation of the muzzle blast and recoil, ruins follow through and the shot.

Doing all this consistently takes time and effort. The more sessions the better. It takes a lot of concentration to shoot well, shot to shot. Depending on your endurance, 100-200 rounds is probably max. My students are limited to 100 rounds per session. I would rather have 150, but we are limited with our ammunition supply.

You have not been shooting that long. It took me quite a long time to be a halfway consistent shooter, some summers shooting every day.

Be patient, and work on fundamentals.

__________________
Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

Get a full sized combat handgun, find an instructor you like and get some personal one on one instruction. Then move to the harder to shoot small gun.

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Regards,
Guy-Harold Smith II

I'll add that you will NEVER be able to hold the firearm steady on the target. Accept your wobble area. Practice will allow you to reduce it, but you'll still have to accept that the sight picture (position of the properly aligned sights on the target) is going to be slightly moving. Also realize that good shot or bad shot, there's gonna be noise and the firearm is going to move about. Ignore that and pay attention to the fundamentals.

The smaller handguns can also be more challenging than full size firearms.

I'm going to add something to my above post. After you've fired the first shot in a string, keep the trigger pinned back. Do your breathing, refine your sight alignment and sight picture, THEN allow the trigger to reset (stop your forward finger movement there) and begin your trigger press.

Yes - I am getting more consistent, and one of biggest things was being reminded that 70% of pressure should come from my left hand -grip the gun tightly on both sides, and relax right hand(am right handed). This helps me keep sights steady on target. However, especially with M&P shield 2.0, the recoil causes me to lose some of the tightness of grip of left hand....any suggestions?

What kind of grip are you using, thumbs crossed or thumbs forward?

Crossed thumbs:



Thumbs forward:



It might be easier to keep a solid, more consistent grip with the thumbs forward grip. Also, whichever grip you're currently using, you can try the other one to see if that helps.

Applying grip tape to your gun may help. I've used Talon Grips with good results on a Glock 23.

I would also suggest working on strengthening your hands. I like Captains of Crush grippers, but you can also use stress balls, tennis balls, or other gripping tools you can find in a sporting goods store.

From my own personal experience, I find equal grip pressure works best for me. You could always give that a try and see if it works for you.

You could also look up some YouTube videos that explaining how to grip a gun.

And, like I mentioned earlier, seeking the help of an instructor or coach would be beneficial.

Note: Not my pictures. Found them on the Interwebs.

While most agree that stance, grip, aight picture and trigger control are the most important aspects in shooting well, there are several,aspects to each of these fundamentals you need to work on.

Stance: Comfortable to you, feet shoulder width apart, weak side foot slightly ahead of the shooting side foot (my right toes are level with my left instep), knees broken slightly, back straight, leaning forward slightly at the hips so your centre of gravity is between your feet. Lock your elbows out at full extension and pull/push your grip. This is what works for me and I need to concentrate on all of these things at the start of any range session. Which is why my first drills on the range, either a practice day or a competition, are 5 draws and dry fires concentrating on all of these things.

Grip: Just so. I like to hold the first knuckles of my shooting hand on the outside edge of the grip so the first joints only are pulling the grip back into the fleshy part of my thumb. My shooting hand holds pressure fore and aft while my non shooting hand squeezes in from side to side.

Today I took up a slightly different, deeper, grip and at 30 meters my shots all went off to the right until I realised what I was doing and adjusted accordingly. Fingertips of my shooting hand run down the line on my left palm between the fleshy part of the thumb and the palm. Both of my thumbs are flying free to the weak hand side of my pistol. I used to lock them down hard on the grip but different pressures each time caused different point of impacts on the target.

Sight Picture: Oh boy, this is a big one. Do Not look at the target. Look only at your front sight. The number of shooter I know who look at the target, especially between shots, is staggering. When I draw I consciously move my focus about 2 meters (6”) in front of me. As I raise the pistol to head level I look at the front sight. As I extend the pistol I am putting my front site on the centre of the target and alining the front sight with the rear. And I rotate the rear site up to the front, not lower the front into the rear. I have taught this to several shooter, both male and female, who all improved immediately when using it.

Trigger control: Another big one. I spent many, many hours with my 686 learning to squeeze the trigger until the hammer was just about to let go then stopping to recheck my sights before adding the last little bit of pressure to break the shot. With my semi auto’s I take up the slack in the trigger then stop the squeeze until again I have one final check of the sights before adding that last little bit of pressure. The first shot from the holster or reload breaks a fraction of a second after my arms reach full extension.

This will not all come to be instinctive without a good deal of practice. About 15 months ago I struggled to keep 5 shots in the A zone on an IPSC target at 7.5 meters in 8 seconds from the holster. Now I am getting 5 A zone hits in 6 seconds or less at 12-15 meters from the holster. It takes a lot of trigger time. Set up a target at 3 meters (10 feet) and practice, practice, practice until you get the group you are looking for. Then move the target out to 5 meters (16 feet). Keep moving the target out when you reach your optimism group at each distance.

And if you want to practice off range get a system like the iTarget laser system. For under $100 US delivered you get a great laser system you can set up anywhere with a smart phone to record your scores. It is scaled so you only need 10 feet or so distance to simulate shooting at much longer ranges.

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If you're trying to shoot a tight group, or long distance, you will not be able to hold perfectly still while aiming. Instead of wandering around unpredictably, turn the movement into a small circle that is always somewhere on the target. Then you have a much greater chance of making the shot go where you want it to.

Creekman, I'm just a couple of years younger than you and I find that Being consistent at this age is, for me at least, just not possible. Couple of reasons for that.

first of all my eyes are different every day and more, my vision changes from morning to night. Seems like the older I get the worse this gets.

Also, my hands, while steady some days, are not on others. And arthritis is worse some days as well.

I was very consistent when I was younger. No sniper but somewhat above average in my view. I used to shoot with some cops at the range on occasion and I could keep up with most of them and even shade a few. but again, not good enough to compete. Some of my friends, both LEO and civilian are total bullseye shooters.

Now my best days are not as good as in the past but my worst day are...well...I'd be better off throwing rocks. Lets just leave it at that.

__________________
Real men love cats!

Lots and lots of practice, doing everything right. Hard to do for most people because it takes a lot of time, discipline, and ammo.

I recommend new shooters to start with full size pistols verses compacts or sub compacts .. the reasons are many but will just say because of the reasons they are easier to shoot accurately for a new shooter .. after learning the fundamentals .. breath control, proper sighting, proper hold .. practicing all of them together dry firing will help you ..

place a line on a piece of paper and tape it muzzle high on a wall .. practice dry firing with the barrel 1 inch from the wall with the sights on the line on the paper .. when the muzzle does not move at all during the complete firing process you will be much better ..

If you can find or afford a couple of hours of private lessons from a qualified instructor it might help a lot .. Its hard to judge your level of competence from what you've written ..

My compact in 40 S&W
http://sigtalk.com/customprofilepics...pic31175_4.gif

thumbs forward grip...gripping hard on both sides of gun with weak hand. Usually shoot M&P Shield 2.0 at 5- 9 yards. Yesterday had 47 of 50 shots in the black center-this is not a small "bulls i", so my pattern was not great, but not bad either in my opinionl

Ok...I agree, but haven't wanted to admit it. I am 75....but in good shape except for bad back (go to gym everyday) which keeps me from my former sports, so took up shooting. I guess 75 yr. old eyes and hands do make a difference.
Have been improving though, so think I'll keep it up. Thanks a lot.Creekman

how do you determine what level Captains of Crush to purchase?

I purchased the kit with multiple levels and started with the weakest one.

I ordered mine from Iron Mind. You could probably contact them and ask them. I will say that the weakest level of Captains of Crush grippers are noticeably stronger than the grippers I've gotten at sporting goods stores. If in doubt, you can always start with the weakest one and start from there.

FYI, the Iron Mind site also has articles on improving grip strength.

You may also want to check with your gym. It's possible they may have equipment that could be used for grip strengthening.

I hope that helps.

Use your unloaded gun every day for 10-20 minutes. Hold it on the angle of the ceiling to wall and follow it without wavering. Follow where two walls meet up and down. Aim at a light toggle switch. As was said you will wobble, make your wobbbles small concentric circles. At the range focus on only moving the trigger as you approach the target in your wobbling circle, never moving a finger as it moves away. Try to keep you circles as small as possible.
Do hand exercises where you hold your hand steady and pull the trigger finger until the top joint is the only thing that moves. No it isn't easy and requires practice. It is up to you to decide if it is worth it.

__________________
Front sight and squeeze

I guess the assumption now days is everybody is shooting their handgun with both hands? I was taught if a handgun was meant to be shot with two hands it would have two handles on it.

very tough to see yourself shooting...
find a knowledgeable person to observe a 5 shot string or video yourself and study your own shooting... look for gun movement prior to the shot and after the shot... finger movement on trigger... shifting grip between shoots... etc... address issues one at a time and repeat... everyone can learn to shoot better... that is why the professional shoots practice...

Well, everyone's given the OP good advice. My two cents are keeping the front sight in focus (you can't focus of the rear right, front sight and target at the same time; your eyes just can't do it) and learn about your wobble area, as well as when your trigger breaks. I know when I started shooting bullseye with a red dot I thought it was damn near impossible, what with that red dot dancing all over the place. Learning to minimize my wobble and then focusing on how my trigger felt so I know when it would break were probably the two things that most improved my scores.

at times I can't see where a shot went....guess 75 yr old eyes aren't great. I am in excellent shape, except for my back, so-as I said I would like to get as good as possible -plus I enjoy it

There are a couple solutions. One is 3-yard shooting on a 1" target. Good feedback, and zero excuses for missing--it's something I suggest frequently to shooters who blame the gun or the ammo habitually. But it also works for folks that just have a hard time seeing their shots.

Another is a pair of binoculars or a spotting scope. The latter is easier and faster to use, but even compact models are a large-ish item to lug to the range when you factor in the tripod.

I'm less than half your age, and my eyes work pretty good, but I'll openly admit that I can't see 9mm or even .45 holes as close as 7 yards at night if they're in a black bullseye. Range lighting usually sucks.

thanks...am shooting now at about 9 yds. and out of 50 shots usually get about 42 in the "bullseye".....I agree with many of you...as well as Hickock that key is keeping front sight on the target, and have a trigger press that allows that to happen when the shot breaks. I would like to move out further and be accurate.BTW- I checked, and have been shooting 6-not 9 mos. maybe I am too impatient.
I dry fire daily.
any further help appreciated

everyone use snap caps to dry fire?

Shot at a range I seldom go to-shot small target with black "bulls eye" about size of a large bullseye. My shots were mainly in lower half of bulls eye, with several a few inches below bulls eye. They had a plaque on wall showing what your problem likely is if you are not hitting POA (low left likely jerking trigger, but just low - not left or right - likely wrists breaking down. When I saw that, I felt I might be doing that...anyone please give instructions on locking wrists. In video with Shannon Foster he shows lowering support hand, thus locking wrist. I've tried that, but just couldn't seem to be very accurate that way.
Also, I don't think I keep my arms fully extended at all times - guess the answer to that is to just remember to do it

Trigger, sights and grip start with basics and do everything consistently the same. start shooting at 7 yards when your group is tight and small move back. Start at 7,10,15,and finally 25 yards. Remember aim small miss small. When your groups open up go home. Do you reload if so start with a lite load or bullet weight. I start every session with my .22 autos then .38 revolvers then .45 acp the .44mags. Sooner or later you will get good and 50 yards standing won't seem all that far. Remember starting out close until you are ready to move back Rome wasn't built in a day. Enjoy the sport and never hurry your shots or range time.

Yes. I like A-Zooms.

follow up- after I wrote above about locking wrists, I did some dry firing, I removed my support hand, and realized it was in exactly the position Shannon Foster described! So, it must be sight picture and trigger pull - I am better, but not perfect obviously. Guess keeping arms fully extended is something I need to be aware of also. thanks for all your help.

Maybe if I was meant to shoot with one hand I would only have one arm. LOL. Firing one hand is fine when you can't use two.

Shoot slow. When all of your shots hit the 10 ring consistently, THEN and only THEN can you try to shoot faster!

guess many of you have seen the Sig Sauer video in which instructor says all that matters is muzzle mgt. and trigger pull...he hits a 1" square standing on one foot , gun held upside down, pulling trigger with his pinky.
He tells his student that he should be able to tell in detail how he pulled trigger all the way to follow thru

today I shot some concentrating on sight and trigger pull...had a spot in bulls eye in which it was torn up-several inches gone ....but also had some low. not low left like I used to, but just straight, but low...frustrating....any thoughts

for only being in the sport for 6 months or so I think you are doing fine .. and are ahead of many at that time period .. short barrel guns like the Shield aren't the easiest to shoot ..

It's just practice now .. and you will have days you can't seem to hit anything and others where everything is in the black bulls eye .. soon your groups will get smaller and then you can increase the distance your shooting ..

thanks a lot....in addition to shield2.0 , I am shooting a compact, which is what I was shooting in message above