|
|
01-03-2018, 11:44 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: St. Charles County, MO
Posts: 1,378
Likes: 978
Liked 1,079 Times in 426 Posts
|
|
Break in period
I have seen a lot of information/posts/"experience"/prevailing wisdom, etc. that say you need to run at least 500 rounds through a gun - usually a semi auto before it is "reliable"? I don't claim this is universal but I've seen it a lot.
In .45 acp this could add $150 - $200 to the price of a gun. It seems like the manufacturers are shifting costs to us. Is anyone else bothered by this?
|
01-03-2018, 12:08 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 969
Likes: 1,658
Liked 1,203 Times in 427 Posts
|
|
Personally no, it's like getting a new car or a new pair of boots.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
01-03-2018, 12:11 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: central pa
Posts: 5,336
Likes: 2,745
Liked 2,492 Times in 1,182 Posts
|
|
No, not really, if its going to be a range toy who cares. If its going to be used as a defencensive weapon you want to be sure it works and that takes shooting. Other things enter into the does it work thing such as magazines and choice of ammo, again this takes shooting. Take my new Colt Lightweight Commander, with its two included Colt magazines it was a jam-
o-matic with my choice of ammo, swapped out the magazines and it runs flawlessly. Once again this takes shooting and along the way it also smoothes out all the moving parts as well.
__________________
Stay safe people!
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
01-03-2018, 12:20 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Central Wyoming
Posts: 1,171
Likes: 3,146
Liked 1,569 Times in 635 Posts
|
|
Usually I cannot wait to shoot a new firearm, I find that at about 400 rounds they start shooting better, not a fast transition but you know when it is there.
I am speaking mostly about accuracy, function is another thing, I am willing to fool with them to a point, then if they aggravate me too much just trade them off or send back to the factory for a major fix if needed.
I do not mind being part of the development of any firearm I buy, sure the factories could spend more money in quality control, but they would have to charge more and I would have less money for ammo.
|
01-03-2018, 12:26 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Santo las nubes, Florida
Posts: 9,004
Likes: 9,236
Liked 14,709 Times in 4,706 Posts
|
|
Not only is 500 rds with no failures a good gauge for reliability, shooting your carry gun regularly, from the holster, and replacing it at first non-shooter induced failure seems to be good policy. Joe
__________________
Wisdom chases me; I'm faster
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
01-03-2018, 12:31 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 30,986
Likes: 41,646
Liked 29,236 Times in 13,822 Posts
|
|
I don't think a gun......
...should need that kind of 'break in' to perform well but it doesn't take me long to put 500 rounds through a semi gun.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
01-03-2018, 12:45 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 4,533
Likes: 2,860
Liked 9,114 Times in 3,210 Posts
|
|
The 500. round break-in period used to
be the prevailing wisdom when the 1911
was basically THE automatic pistol and the
caliber was .45 ACP.
I believe the manufacturers have improved
the 1911 and perhaps it's not as necessary
nowadays.
But one thing is, the "modern" autos such
as the Sigs, Glocks, Berettas, never seemed
to require that break-in period.
Certainly a bad magazine or sometimes rough
feed ramp can alter that equation.
Interestingly enough, Bill Wilson of Wilson
Combat mentions that the .45 ACP in all its
fatness and straight walls may never have
been the ideal cartridge for the 1911.
|
01-03-2018, 12:50 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Central VA
Posts: 2,535
Likes: 3,774
Liked 4,332 Times in 1,548 Posts
|
|
Perhaps you could consider reloading. That's fun too.
Familiarity breeds effectiveness.
__________________
Foster Positivity.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
01-03-2018, 12:56 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 33
Likes: 54
Liked 32 Times in 14 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleEd
Interestingly enough, Bill Wilson of Wilson
Combat mentions that the .45 ACP in all its
fatness and straight walls may never have
been the ideal cartridge for the 1911.
|
Maybe the 1911 stopped being relevant in the 1980s or earlier.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T337A using Tapatalk
|
01-03-2018, 01:01 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 4,533
Likes: 2,860
Liked 9,114 Times in 3,210 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabusa
Maybe the 1911 stopped being relevant in the 1980s or earlier.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T337A using Tapatalk
|
You just made Jeff Cooper go into a spin.
|
01-03-2018, 01:03 PM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 1,285
Likes: 1,112
Liked 1,609 Times in 660 Posts
|
|
Most quality firearms from the big manufacturers such as S&W, Glock, SIG, Ruger are very well machined and in my opinion don't necessarily need a break in period per se but rather I'd suggest shooting off a couple hundred rounds of various ammo to see which brand/make ammo that particular firearms functions the best, gets the best accuracy with before carrying.
If it's a range or target gun, then no, just shoot it & enjoy.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
01-03-2018, 01:46 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 33
Likes: 54
Liked 32 Times in 14 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleEd
You just made Jeff Cooper go into a spin.
|
What do you think would happen if it were introduced today? Would it gather the sentimental, cult following or be a higher priced HiPoint?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
|
01-03-2018, 01:50 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Peoples Republic of Calif
Posts: 4,668
Likes: 1,234
Liked 6,037 Times in 2,150 Posts
|
|
IN my experience over many years semi-automatic pistols, with the exception of Glock pistols, do benefit from a break-in period as far as reliability goes.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
01-03-2018, 01:52 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: bootheel of Missouri
Posts: 16,888
Likes: 6,991
Liked 28,119 Times in 8,912 Posts
|
|
I was once given a NIB Glock 23 on the morning of qualification . . .
__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
01-03-2018, 02:39 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: trail's end in ol' Wyo
Posts: 7,245
Likes: 17,470
Liked 18,437 Times in 5,045 Posts
|
|
Guess I've never viewed ammo, whether it's one box or 10, as adding to the price of the gun.
It takes about 10 boxes to break me in to a new shooter so I might be missing the OP's point altogether.
__________________
Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
01-03-2018, 03:12 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,315
Likes: 13,115
Liked 12,802 Times in 4,228 Posts
|
|
I'm not seeing a problem.
If it's a range gun, you're going to shoot ammo through it anyway.
If it's a self defense/carry gun, you're going to need to make sure the gun is reliable with your defensive ammo by shooting it.
This is aside from the fact you'll have to shoot the gun anyway to learn how to shoot it.
If it's a collector's piece/safe queen that you're not going to shoot, then it doesn't matter, does it?
|
01-03-2018, 03:19 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Outside Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 16,601
Likes: 7,342
Liked 17,200 Times in 7,303 Posts
|
|
Doesn't bother me. A lot of that is just people repeating the same thing from an era when that was necessary. I've never had a gun that needed breaking in.
That being said what's the difference between shooting and breaking in? Typically I try to put a 1000 rounds within the first month. You can call it breaking in, practice, pancake breakfast... whatever you'd like! I get to know the gun and practice shooting. 45acp is $250ish delivered for a thousand rounds.
Last edited by Arik; 01-03-2018 at 03:23 PM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
01-03-2018, 03:25 PM
|
|
Moderator
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Beach Side West Florida
Posts: 12,318
Likes: 26,822
Liked 19,400 Times in 4,088 Posts
|
|
I can't speak for any other manufacturer but, the only manufacturer that I am aware of the states " 500 " rounds IN the manual is KIMBER. Shoot 100/Clean repeat 4 more times... Have a problem with FTE/FTL, call Kimber and the first question asked, would be how many rounds are through the gun.
Of all the Kimbers I have owned maybe one was not right after 500 rounds, I called Kimber and they made it right.
__________________
SWCA #2306
DAV in honor of POP
|
01-03-2018, 03:35 PM
|
|
US Veteran Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,143
Likes: 3,701
Liked 5,261 Times in 1,885 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff423
I have seen a lot of information/posts/"experience"/prevailing wisdom, etc. that say you need to run at least 500 rounds through a gun - usually a semi auto before it is "reliable"? I don't claim this is universal but I've seen it a lot. In .45 acp this could add $150 - $200 to the price of a gun. It seems like the manufacturers are shifting costs to us. Is anyone else bothered by this?
|
Kahr advises firing 200 rounds through the pistol. I'm not aware of most other manufacturers having a recommended break in period, although the conventional wisdom expressed here and on other forums is to shoot at least a couple of hundred rounds before deciding a gun is worthy of EDC.
Kimber is, or at least was when I owned them, the worst company about this...when I had a problem it was always "shoot 500 rounds and then call us." I've never gotten that from any other gun company, although to be honest I've never had many problems with any other guns, except for Taurus. The only problems I've had with S&W and Ruger guns were ones I caused myself, but they fixed them anyway...with no question about round count, either.
Think about it this way...a car is a LOT more complex mechanically than a pistol. If you bought a new car, and it wouldn't go a mile without missing, stalling, or dying, wouldn't you expect the dealer to fix it, no matter how many miles it had on it? Would you be happy if the dealer said "Drive it 500 miles and then if the problem persists, call me." I certainly wouldn't.
As a result, over the years, I have refined my gun purchases to American made guns, with a lifetime warranty, the company has excellent service, and pays for shipping both ways. That's just me, and I don't expect everyone to feel that way. I wish I could find a car company that would do that too!
|
01-03-2018, 03:40 PM
|
|
US Veteran Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,143
Likes: 3,701
Liked 5,261 Times in 1,885 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditrina
Of all the Kimbers I have owned maybe one was not right after 500 rounds, I called Kimber and they made it right.
|
I've owned three, had problems with all three, and Kimber wouldn't make it right without the 500 rounds BS. I've never had that from any other 1911, or any other pistol, period!
As a result, I will never own another Kimber product. They are pretty guns, but if I want something to shoot, I buy something else.
|
01-03-2018, 03:43 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Okoboji, IA
Posts: 6,057
Likes: 21,490
Liked 19,598 Times in 4,698 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditrina
I can't speak for any other manufacturer but, the only manufacturer that I am aware of the states " 500 " rounds IN the manual is KIMBER. Shoot 100/Clean repeat 4 more times... Have a problem with FTE/FTL, call Kimber and the first question asked, would be how many rounds are through the gun.
Of all the Kimbers I have owned maybe one was not right after 500 rounds, I called Kimber and they made it right.
|
Agree on the Kimbers needing a "break in" time. I recently bought an Ulta Carry II and we are not getting along very well, FTE. But have to but more rounds thru it before I contact Kimber, if I still have the problem.
|
01-03-2018, 04:17 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,770
Likes: 3,338
Liked 4,269 Times in 1,042 Posts
|
|
It is my opinion that any company that claims their guns may need a 'break in' period to work reliably is unacceptable.
The only reason that some guns need 200-500 rounds to be reliable is because the tolerances were incorrect from the factory, and the continued shooting 'wears in' the slide/frame fit enough so that it doesn't hang up. Such fitting should have been done at the factory, by the company.
I'm betting my life and my family's life on these guns: I expect them to work 100 percent from day one.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
01-03-2018, 04:26 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 256
Likes: 218
Liked 503 Times in 162 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff423
. It seems like the manufacturers are shifting costs to us. Is anyone else bothered by this?
|
Personally, I think we, as shooters, need a 'break-in period' with a new firearm to get used to shooting that particular gun. This is even more important for a weapon you mean to use to hunt or defend with. That takes shooting.
Now if you bought a gun for self defense, put a few rounds through it to make sure it fires, then never fired it until needed, I guess I could see your point above.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
01-03-2018, 04:31 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 4,533
Likes: 2,860
Liked 9,114 Times in 3,210 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabusa
What do you think would happen if it were introduced today? Would it gather the sentimental, cult following or be a higher priced HiPoint?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
|
Now you've hurt a lot of feelings and I just think
you like to make strong men cry.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
01-03-2018, 04:33 PM
|
|
Moderator
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Beach Side West Florida
Posts: 12,318
Likes: 26,822
Liked 19,400 Times in 4,088 Posts
|
|
__________________
SWCA #2306
DAV in honor of POP
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
01-03-2018, 04:34 PM
|
|
US Veteran Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,143
Likes: 3,701
Liked 5,261 Times in 1,885 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybermgk
Personally, I think we, as shooters, need a 'break-in period' with a new firearm to get used to shooting that particular gun. This is even more important for a weapon you mean to use to hunt or defend with. That takes shooting.
Now if you bought a gun for self defense, put a few rounds through it to make sure it fires, then never fired it until needed, I guess I could see your point above.
|
That's different. I can see how a shooter needs to adjust to a new gun, but it should still work, absent user induced errors (like limp wristing, for example.) However, what's unacceptable to me is a manufacturer refusing to address malfunctions until a pistol has been shot 500 rounds. A gun should work from round one on...if it doesn't, and it's not a shooter induced error, it should be fixed.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
01-03-2018, 05:04 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 33
Likes: 54
Liked 32 Times in 14 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditrina
|
Break it in like your gonna drive it.
That is a gorgeous car!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T337A using Tapatalk
|
01-03-2018, 05:11 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Outside Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 16,601
Likes: 7,342
Liked 17,200 Times in 7,303 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditrina
|
I'll gladly do a break in on your Ferrari wether or not it needs one!
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
|
01-03-2018, 05:43 PM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 1,285
Likes: 1,112
Liked 1,609 Times in 660 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
I was once given a NIB Glock 23 on the morning of qualification . . .
|
And it never missed a beat did it?. I have a G23 gen 4 and I've lost track of how many rounds has been thru it. I can say it has not had a single issue whatsoever since new.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
01-03-2018, 07:38 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,111
Likes: 2,876
Liked 2,506 Times in 1,281 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by American1776
It is my opinion that any company that claims their guns may need a 'break in' period to work reliably is unacceptable.
The only reason that some guns need 200-500 rounds to be reliable is because the tolerances were incorrect from the factory, and the continued shooting 'wears in' the slide/frame fit enough so that it doesn't hang up. Such fitting should have been done at the factory, by the company.
I'm betting my life and my family's life on these guns: I expect them to work 100 percent from day one.
|
With you 110 % . Springfield spewed run a threw more 100 rounds threw it should be fine. I asked them when I could expect a few more 100 rounds at door.And why wasn't it. Milled or built properly at factory ? They had no answer
__________________
Spin The Wheel
Last edited by wingriderz; 01-03-2018 at 07:59 PM.
|
01-03-2018, 08:02 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 33
Likes: 54
Liked 32 Times in 14 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by American1776
It is my opinion that any company that claims their guns may need a 'break in' period to work reliably is unacceptable.
The only reason that some guns need 200-500 rounds to be reliable is because the tolerances were incorrect from the factory, and the continued shooting 'wears in' the slide/frame fit enough so that it doesn't hang up. Such fitting should have been done at the factory, by the company.
I'm betting my life and my family's life on these guns: I expect them to work 100 percent from day one.
|
Don't buy a new 1911, even a Wilson Combat, Les Baer and Ed Brown recommend 400-500 break in before fully reliable. That's on a $4k dollar pistol.
Ed Brown has a LS10 that starts at $3900 and I want one so bad it hurts. However, I refuse to pay that for a weapon that isn't "fully reliable" until after 500 rounds.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
Last edited by Alabusa; 01-03-2018 at 08:08 PM.
|
01-03-2018, 10:24 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 33
Likes: 54
Liked 32 Times in 14 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGVshooter
And it never missed a beat did it?. I have a G23 gen 4 and I've lost track of how many rounds has been thru it. I can say it has not had a single issue whatsoever since new.
|
Sounds like my lowly Ruger SR9C. Over 2k rounds and not 1 issue with the gun yet. Have had a few squib loaded round that didn't have enough power to cycle the action but that's not the gun's fault.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T337A using Tapatalk
|
01-03-2018, 10:31 PM
|
|
Moderator
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Beach Side West Florida
Posts: 12,318
Likes: 26,822
Liked 19,400 Times in 4,088 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabusa
Don't buy a new 1911, even a Wilson Combat, Les Baer and Ed Brown recommend 400-500 break in before fully reliable. That's on a $4k dollar pistol.
Ed Brown has a LS10 that starts at $3900 and I want one so bad it hurts. However, I refuse to pay that for a weapon that isn't "fully reliable" until after 500 rounds.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
|
I see what you did there... Sarcasm
__________________
SWCA #2306
DAV in honor of POP
|
01-04-2018, 02:14 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Upper peninsula of Michig
Posts: 4,469
Likes: 31,326
Liked 7,151 Times in 2,395 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabusa
Maybe the 1911 stopped being relevant in the 1980s or earlier.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T337A using Tapatalk
|
Bite your tongue!
__________________
Carpriver.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
01-04-2018, 05:25 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Harlem, Ohio
Posts: 14,427
Likes: 23,431
Liked 26,306 Times in 9,121 Posts
|
|
I always start a 1911 with proven Wilson mags. After 70 or so rounds I go to "other" mags. If there is a problem during the "Wilson mag", it is the gun. Whoever put it together (usually me) needs to get it right before we go further. If A New gun jams on the mags provided but not proven mags, they should replace the mags (they may not want to; See how many magazine changes S&W went through when the started making semi auto 45's). But if you know the gun is good and the mags are ****, you can just take care of it yourself. But again, why should we eat another $200 to get a Brand New gun working.
|
01-04-2018, 06:19 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 17,800
Likes: 7,843
Liked 25,705 Times in 8,685 Posts
|
|
Well, I only own Colt 1911's and they have all worked properly right out of the box - no break in period needed! With over 20,000 hand loads through my Colt Gold Cup Series 70 NM it will still shoot as good as I am capable of. I may be in the minority here, but except for bragging rights of the high end 1911's I see so true justification to buy designer 1911's.
The Ed Browns, Les Behr's, Kimber's, Wilson's etc are all fine guns but IMHO are built too tight and will not function 100% properly with hand loaded ammo. If I can not shoot my hand loads I am not interested in owning the firearm. I may be in the minority here - but that's nothing new LOL!!
|
01-04-2018, 08:04 AM
|
|
US Veteran Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pensacola, Fl
Posts: 4,388
Likes: 9,733
Liked 7,187 Times in 2,603 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by chief38
Well, I only own Colt 1911's and they have all worked properly right out of the box - no break in period needed! With over 20,000 hand loads through my Colt Gold Cup Series 70 NM it will still shoot as good as I am capable of. I may be in the minority here, but except for bragging rights of the high end 1911's I see so true justification to buy designer 1911's.
The Ed Browns, Les Behr's, Kimber's, Wilson's etc are all fine guns but IMHO are built too tight and will not function 100% properly with hand loaded ammo. If I can not shoot my hand loads I am not interested in owning the firearm. I may be in the minority here - but that's nothing new LOL!!
|
Chief that's some pretty amazing shooting and fine testament to the Colt Gold Cup. I'm with you on the handloads.
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|