Pharmaceutical Murder – Mass Shootings Caused by Drugs!
Published on May 21, 2018

About time this news came out!
http://drsircus.com/general/pharmace...45bf9be9914997

Ahh legal drugs. Back when I was in high school most everyone smoked that "evil" illicit drug Marijuana...even in the bathroom during school. We got along pretty well and nobody ever shot anyone in those days. Kinda makes one think!!

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

Have you ever noticed that when a crack house is raided people are running, jumping out windows,cops screaming orders, dogs attacking all sorts of mayhem is going on. But when you raid a bunch of pot smokers everyone is smiling, laughing and talking with the cops everyone is all mellowed out and going with the plan. Makes you wonder doesn't it?

This +1

Regards Kobsw

Don't get me wrong - I definitely believe there is a connection between psychotropic drugs and these mass shootings.

BUT, there are also at least some kids who benefit from these drugs. My oldest had some serious anger, suicide, and impulse control issues. Appropriate moderate dosages of the right medications helped him "level out" and normalize. He's doing great now, but without them I seriously doubt that he would have survived long enough to get straightened out.

A few months ago he decided to just stop taking them cold turkey, and he started having self control issues again. We monitor him carefully to ensure he's taking the appropriate doses and that he takes them regularly. He's in the process of being weaned off of them now.

So my point is that you can't just throw these medications out as being all bad and arbitrarily do away with them. The same drug that does one person good can do another harm. These are powerful and potentially dangerous drugs that have to be tightly controlled and monitored, and they are no doubt being over prescribed.

Nearly every new "wonder drug" that has ever been discovered has had some of those problems. The industry, and medical professionals need to be on a short leash with these drugs, to avoid over prescribing them. But used appropriately they can also do many people a lot of good.

Ah, an article by Mark Sircus. An acupuncturist and holder of the honorary title of Doctor of Oriental Medicine. He also fancies himself an expert on cancer and its cure. And he's a "doctor" of Pastoral Medicine, which somehow makes me think of a herd of cows laying in green pastures, happily chewing their cud. You see guys like him on those hours-long PBS pledge marathons...talking for hours and trying to sell their DVDs. The self-help guys who have an answer and a cure for whatever your problem is.

Heads up, folks, he isn't a real doctor. As someone who prescribes dosing yourself with magnesium, baking soda, and iodine as cures for what ails you...oh, yeah, and something called a "magnesium massage" ...I can't take him seriously. At all.

This author is a real yahoo.

Amazing that con artists like this get otherwise intelligent folks going with their drivel.

A little critical thinking goes a long way in keeping you from falling for their nonsense.

We all want simple answers to complex problems. Too bad things rarely turn out that way.

Think folks!!

Nothing personal, but this isn’t news, but classic internet humbug.

Each and every citation in that article ends you up not at a source with supporting evidence, but other opinion pieces or anti-pharmaceutical advocacy sites. I gave up after a while.

I’m sure certain drugs are over-prescribed for certain people, and there may even be cases where drugs could be linked to the events leading up to a shooting.

But data is not the plural of anecdote, and coincidence doesn’t prove causation. Charles Whitman, the Texas Tower shooter of 1966, was on high doses of Excedrin, but I took a lot of the stuff for nearly 25 years without killing anyone. The kink in the reasoning here is obvious: Just like the Excedrin didn’t make Whitman do it, but taking the stuff for headaches was related to the actual brain issues he had, the drugs that these kids are on don’t explain the shootings, but more likely point to issues that caused them.

We can’t heap scorn on the antis for latching onto a simplistic answer that “it’s the guns’ fault”, and then buy into an equally simplistic “it’s the drugs’ fault”.

I actually tried reading the linked article, myself. I couldn't finish it. I'd started shaking my head so much, if you'd seen me, you'd have thought I had Parkinson's.

That guy's whole website is full of more click bait than Isaac Walton's tackle box.

Well, I know nothing about Mr. Sircus (is that pronounced just like circus? If so that seems kind of ironic). However I have seen numerous others pose the question and even make a good case for a connection between these drugs and the psychotic behavior we're seeing in too many young people.

When the disclaimers about side effects from the drugs match the behaviors of these psychos, and the psychos are in fact taking the drugs, it sure seems like an unbelievably common coincidence - too often to actually be just a coincidence IMO.

As any doctor will tell you, different people have different reactions to different drugs. What cures one creates unbearable side effects that can be worse than the original illness for another. I believe this is the case here as well. The drug that allowed my son to return to rational thinking, may drive another kid to this kind of madness.

I have seen psychiatric meds work wonders for a lot of people, Part of my job was to monitor the patient while they were taking the medication. I watched for side effects, bleed through of symptoms or new or usual behaviors. we scheduled blood test to monitor levels in the body. All of the information I gathered was reported to the psychiatrist. In most case the medication worked, and some times you have to stop them and try something different. What I want to say is treatment has to be monitored and watched carefully.

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Carpriver.

I do thank that many doctors have become nothing more then Pill Pushers ..

almost all are associated with a hospital and they are given 10 minutes or less per patient .. for a set fee .. patient say what ails him/her and the prescription pad comes out or he asks which pharmacy you use and where !! He gives you that and come back in 10 days or a month ..

On 3 different occasions I have refused my doctors wanting to increase my meds and have told then no each time !! all 3 times they were the ones that brought the subject up !!

The drugs don't cause the issues. The problem is that we're applying a pharmaceutical solution to situations where it's not appropriate, while excusing behavior to protect individuals from lifelong stigmatization.

Couple bits:

(1) I do think we have a problem with violence and children in this country. The problem is that we have an extremely liberal attitude towards mental health compared to, say, Europe. Compulsory treatment is the norm over there. Here it's exceptionally uncommon, and we permanently punish people for having a disease (recall that little adjudication question on your 4473).

(2) While we're busy with our super-progressive you-can't-force-treatment-on-a-person attitude, we permanently stigmatize people for having a temporary, treatable disease, because we're backwards like that.

(3) To top it off, while we're isolating individual kids with problems, feeding them pills to suppress their symptoms without addressing the root problems, and then telling them to feel ashamed of their disease, we fail to punish the little sadists that torture their afflicted classmates. So somebody with violent fantasies and a black trenchcoat is a psycho, while a football star or cheerleader that inflicts pain on a peer for fun is "normal".

(4) Because we can't admit just how badly we've screwed up, we then blame "the guns" if you're on one side, and "the vidyagames" if you're on the other.

That was the reason I changed doctors! She had me taking 17 pills a day and most were to treat the side effects of a previous drugs she had prescribed. I noted while in the waiting room, the drug reps. got into see her immediately. I changed doctors and after his exam and re-evaluation of my condition, I was on only one pill a day. I feel so much better now because all of the those other pills were just physically dragging me down.

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Bill

I’m not sure I agree with everything you say, Wise A, but I do find your comments thought provoking.

Good post!

I couldn’t wade through the article, which is pretty much a disconnected rant. There are people who don’t believe in vaccinating their kids either. They walk among us, just like normal people. Then i heard the theory advanced that thes shooters are predominantly white male (true enough) products of Christian home schooling (a couple, maybe, but not enough to be a “thing”). Pick your scapegoat.

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Not in jail.

I agree with the majority of this. It is certainly, in my opinion, worth chewing on and pondering as we search for the root of the problems that plague us today.
There are those that claim the problems we have today are pale in comparison to the evil that has plagued the world since we began recording history. I beg differ with that view. There was a time in this country when firearms were prolific and our children did not take it upon themselves to massacre their peers. What has changed to make this activity acceptable in the minds of our young?

What's really interesting is that the number of incidents has remained mostly static for the past 50-60 years, but the number of mass shootings--just going off a rough count--has increased.

So back in the day, kids tended to pop the one or two people that really deserved it. Nowadays, there's a lot more instances of just shooting everybody.

Frankly, I think that taking the last three alive was a big victory. It's real tough to psychoanalyze dead brains.

Ditto that.

Cutting to the bottom of this let's put one gun grabber myth aside:
Guns perse are not the problem. misuse of firearms are a symptom and dealing with symptoms(Let's pass more firearms laws!) is always easier then addressing real problems.
I agree that drugs both legal and illegal contribute to mass shootings and,in every instance, where it's been reported drugs, and mental illness have been involved. The are other issues involved in mass shootings in the social and political realm but due to this forums rules I will not go into any detail.
Until we as responsible Americans insist that the root problems here be addressed and appropriate actions taken this, unfortunately, will continue to be a major problem.
Jim

Quote:
"it's not a major problem.
more people get struck by lightning that get killed in school shootings, thus, this problem is an anomaly.
legislating on the basis of anomalies is foolish as it imposes hardships upon the majority to fail to prevent an issue that may occur in the next 30 years."

Not a Major problem? I will respectfully disagree. It's a major problem for us the responsible gun owners and a constant battle to address. Aside from Fox News no one in the mainstream media sides with us or reports the truth which means that a lot of our citizens are fed lies and exaggerations. The antis have one end goal here: The confiscation of all privately owned firearms and the elimination of the 2nd Amendment from our Constitution. If this isn't a major problem for us and in reality for all responsible Americans I don't know what is!
Jim

Simple as all that. If you don't want to get hit by lightning don't play outside in storms.

If you don't want to get shot don't go to school.

I coulda used that excuse back in the day.

Seriously, Lets blame it on working parents that don't have time to help with the homework and get involved with school programs like the PTA. When was the last time you drove by a school and saw on the board PTA MEETING MAY 30th?

Yes Academia is a huge problem but it's only part of it.

Little Johnny can't sit still in class, Lets give him some dope instead of stimulating the energy of his active brain. We wouldn't want the others to fall behind little Johnny. Dumb the whole bunch down and teach them what to think rather than how to think.

As said by others some kids need the drugs but my opinion is most don't. Then there's the problem of them not taking their meds, that can be just as bad.

There's so many muck ups in the system it's little wonder we don't have more problems. AND we sure will if we continue kicking the ball down the street.

Speaking of kicking the ball,,, Florida has learned a lesson from our Parkland shooter. Instead of kicking the shooters brother down the street, this time we sent him to Virginia. Good luck Virginia.

I could go on but my head hurts. I need my meds.

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Dum vivo cano

It goes way beyond taking away our 2nd Amendment Rights. That's just one small facet among a more widespread attack on the American way of life. The media has volunteered to serve a master who hates traditional America and for the past decade has become a farce to be reckoned with. I cannot, will not elaborate on who is being attacked because I would need to mention race, religion, sexuality etc. The Mods surely would censor me. Suffice it to say, they are trying to eradicate the Cleaver family and all evidence that such ever existed or were responsible for building the nation we have.

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

"Can opened, worms every where".
As a Members signature states.

Agreed. If you look at the list of school shootings since WWII, you see this change occurring in the late 1980s to 1990s. Prior to that point in time you almost always find examples like a kid shooting an ex girlfriend and her new boy friend, or a recently fired, teacher shooting the principal and couple of staff he felt were responsible, etc. In short people killing people for the age old grudge related reasons people have always killed people.

After about 1990 you see a predominance of people shooting random people for no clear reason* and you see a rise in the frequency of mass shootings. Those are anomalies when it comes to any kind of murder.

*Other than fame. Our median circus is making money hand over foot by making these shooters famous. They get ratings and readership by covering these events in minute detail for weeks. The cable news folks are the worst as they bring in talking heads to provide opinions and speculation as filler for hours between any actual news. I read some interesting research in the 1990s on how the press covered murders in the US versus how the press covered them in Canada. The short version is that pretty much any murder in the US gets ample press coverage and on average a murder in the US will get about 600 times the media exposure as a murder in Canada. That irresponsible use of the first amendment, for the sole purpose of making money, breeds copy cat killers. Yet I don't see a hue and cry for the responsible use of 1st amendment rights.

The other trend from the 1960s through present is that mass killings have increased in frequency from about 10 years:
- 1966, university of TX,
- 1976 CA State Fullerton,
- 1989 Stockton CA,
- 1998, Westside Middle School

To about every five years:

- 1999 Columbine HS;

Then almost annually:
- 2006 West Nickel Mines School
- 2007 VA Tech
- 2008 Northern IL University
- 2010 Red Lake MN,
- etc...

To what we have now - multiple mass shootings in school each year.

Clearly something has happened with this new "deadliest generation" and we need to focus on the "what" and "why" not on the weapons used.

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In terms of timing it fits well with welfare reform where the focus changed from training single parent moms to become self supporting and self sufficient as a condition of the grant to instead going to work at least 30 hours a week (almost always in minimum wage jobs) as condition of the grant. This is attractive to business as it creates a subsidized and largely captive minimum wage work force and it's attractive to voters who see it as a harsh system that discourages welfare. But it's also incredibly short sighted and expensive. TANF reduced the *cash* welfare payments by 80%, but it increased welfare costs overall in terms of food stamps, housing assistance, heating assistance, WIC, and subsidized day care. In fact TANF bankrupted the subsidized day care programs in many states, with the result that increasing numbers of kids ended up in sub standard daycare.

Not your problem you say? Actually it is because those welfare moms predominantly work evening and night shifts and thus are not home when the kids get home from school. Without adequate adult supervision those kids grow up to be little hellions as teens. About 10 years after TANF came on line, we saw the predicted massive expansion in the need for juvenile detention and in longer term juvenile prisons - and carrying that time line out farther you also see the increase in school shootings and mass shootings by the child products of welfare reform.

We've created a system of subsidized employment for cheap assed employers who won't pay a livable wage, and ensured a large supply of cheap labor - but one of the side effects is a generation that has been raised in often substandard daycare, with no one around to teach them ethics, personal responsibility or the importance to treating others with respect, or the value of human life. TV and video games sure as hell have not taught those kinds of pro-social values. And now we all act shots when the current generation of young people contain a high percentage of mass murderers.

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That's probably only part of it. The US also leads the nation in prescribing Ritalin - we consume 90% of the total planetary production of the drug. Unlike Japan, where they address ADHD early on as a behavioral issue that can be resolved, we treat it like a disease and push pills down their throats. We do that because it is just easier to deal with it that way, than it is to actually work with the kid to develop better executive functioning and self control.

I'm not in agreement with the whackadoo article the OP posted, but I do think there is some correlation between the use of psychotropic meds and aggression as a side effect.

However, it's also a chicken or the egg thing. We've created a society where strong family values and support is an increasing rarity, and where earning a livable wage is an increasing challenge, increasing stress and depression overall. The end result is high rates of mental illness, which a commensurate increase in psychotropic drugs. So we've got a lot more people with mental health issues and a lot more people taking psychotropic drugs. But...when one of them pulls the trigger, it's never clear whether the cause was the mental illness, a side effect of the drug, or both.

I worry more about stuff like this:Mussels test positive for opioids in Seattle's Puget Sound - BBC News

It has long been known that metabolites of SSRI's, Ritalin and other widely used drugs find their way into our water supply by way of urination and toilets. Then there are the idiots who flush unwanted/unused pharmaceuticals down the toilet. What effect are those metabolites having on us and on the food chain?

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

I always think of the Rolling Stones song "Mother's Little Helper" and the Original Twilight Zone episode "No. 12 Looks Just Like You" where people drink a cup of instant smile when they feel blue. We would do well to recall "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde".
Blaming "Big Pharma". Curious how quick some are to blame legitimate companies and not criminal combines.
If we're going to single out a law, how about "The Civil Rights of Institutionalized Persons Act." ? Claude Brown, author of "Manchild in the Promised Land" said on national TV:
"I am in favor of the death penalty for felony murder. Being sent to prison means nothing to a ghetto kid, he gets opportunities he never got before."
Government always used acts of "terrorism" as an excuse to curtail or eliminate civil liberties. I Nazi Germany it was the Reichstag Fire, in Satlin's Russia it was the assassination of Kirov.

Yeah, or the use of the fictional drug "soma" in Huxley's Brave New World.

wonder if the dates bb57 listed correlate's with increase in psychotic
meds .. or any one new med in each of those years ..

Hmmm, I read through the posts and see alot of contradictions and finger pointing and speculation, etc. I'm not a Doctor and will not profess to say what is good or bad for people with mental defects. NO ONE mentioned violence in the media- movies, TV and video games, etc. Yes, Cruz and other shooters had mental problems, but I still think the professionals treating them and authorities, that could stop the shootings are NOT doing their jobs. The local PD went to Cruz 13 times, yet did nothing; Mental Health officials saw him twice, yet did nothing; DCF had him on a case plane twice, yet did nothing; Finally, the FBI was notified twice, that he was a threat, yet did nothing. The Florida AG found that those official entities( that were supposed to), had delayed or simply did NOT report folks with mental problems to NCIC. Florida has passed new laws to address those issues. The other issue is , this last school shooter in texas, got his unsecured guns from his dad, who should be charged for not securing the guns( Fl law). Same with Adam Lanza, but imo, that was a hoax anyway.

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USMC Life-GOA IDPA A10051

Hot chicks with the roll along suitcase, right?

While researching an eye med I happened across a drug rep message board! OMG...

In regard to the bold in bold I did on fact mention it:

"TV and video games sure as hell have not taught those kinds of pro-social values."

It's not the violence as much as it is the lack of socialization. Let's be honest here, we had violent movies back when I was a kid. Texas Chain Saw Massacre, the Dirty Harry series, and both Bonnie and Clyde (1967) and the "Wild Bunch" (1969) which are both regarded as some of the first movies to show violence in a very graphic manner.

After seeing those movies I still took my .22 to school for show and tell and I still wore a 3" folding Buck knife on my belt each and every school day, yet somehow I amazingly resisted the temptation to commit a mass murder during recess.

I suspect that had a lot do with being well raised and properly socialized to respect other people - even those I did not like, did not agree with, or just had little or nothing in common. I also understood the consequences of my actions.

I was raised on a ranch and firearms were just tools. At about age 6 I started shooting with supervision and by age 10 I was hunting rabbits, gophers and prairie dogs independently. I understood that when a living creature got shot it bled and it died. I understood the power a firearm provided but I also understood the responsibility that went with it.

Blaming movies or video games is *almost* as bad as blaming gun as it suggests that people do not in fact have free will and the influence of an object will turn them into killing machines. But the critical difference between someone who sees all that and just sees it as a game or a movie and someone who starts seeing it as a model for how to live and act is mature, rational adult supervision and role models.

That's the piece that is missing. If you look at mass shooters in general you tend to see people with troubled backgrounds, more often than not absent or disinterested parents, and almost always a lack of well adjusted peers who they interact with on a regular basis.

If there's a causal link to video games and mass shooters it's in the form of video games substituting for proper adult supervision or normal socialization with peers outside the home.

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You also mention what amounts to resource limitations. Here's a fun fact for you. In my investigator days we had enough personnel to follow up on approximately 20% of the tips we received. Someone had to review them, assess them based on their merits and then prioritize them for follow up. That meant 80% went unaddressed simply because of limited FTEs. When people talk about "smaller government" that's actually what they are talking about and advocating for, they just don't realize it.

It's also dangerous to assume that giving mental health providers free reign in turning people in as potential threats is a good idea. Once that becomes an expectation, then you'll find psychiatrists, psychologists, clinical social workers and LPCs will all start being overly careful and referring people who "might" pose a danger to self or others. Then, once people going to things like marriage counseling start ending up on prohibited lists, the number of people seeking any kind of mental health services will plummet and the problem will actually get worse as fewer truly dangerous people are identified.

I'm sure such things do inspire violence. I'm almost certain of it. BUT...if over a 10 year period, 50 million people view a certain film...and only one or two people are inspired to violence by it...then it is hardly a crisis, not even a measurable threat to law and order in this very large country. I think it was Shane Black who said it best - "Himmler did a Hell of a job without television." What are we supposed to do? Deny all 300 million Americans violent films, TV and video games...all because of a couple losers...who were destined to commit acts of violence anyway? That is the same approach the anti-gunners use in targeting the inanimate firearms as the cause of violence. Speaking of inspiration...if there is one phrase that makes me "blow up"...it is the much overused "If we can save just one life." Grrrr

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

I do agree with you 100% on this issue.

In NC we have a law that requires firearms to be secured when not under your direct supervision so that children cannot access them. It's a good start but it needs to be both stronger and extended to cover all types of prohibited individuals.

Locking up the firearms I am not currently carrying or shooting in order to make them harder to access by children and prohibited individuals is just a matter of personal responsibility - but I'll be branded as a "liberal" for supporting a law that requires us to do what most of us should regard as being both proper and common sense. The problem is that way too many of us don't actually take those common sense steps, so it's a law that becomes necessary to prevent events that would otherwise in the long term pose a threat to our gun rights.

For example, I have a console safe in my Tacoma. A few months ago there were a number of cars broken into in our neighborhood one night, including mine. The console was open but the safe and it's contents were untouched. That potentially prevented a handgun from finding it's way into the hands of a criminal. Yet way too many shooters will say that just locking their car should be enough - and the fact is that the majority of handguns stolen in this area are stolen from cars that are not even locked. Leaving your handgun in an unlocked car is incredibly stupid and irresponsible and should be a crime. The problem of course would be that those stolen handguns would not be reported stolen.

If you are referring to Cafepharma it is nothing more than a cagematch for insults and bragging.

As far as drugs and murder, if we leave aside the irrelevant subject of guns, we find almost all mass murderers have psych histories along with "fruit salad" (a reference to the propensity of medical professionals to prescribe half a dozen classes of meds hoping to "hit" something). No one ever mentions the mindset that develops over a long period of time and that these horrific events will continue as long as marginalized young men feel "out in the wilderness." I had sold prescription drugs for most of a decade, including antidepressants, and I can tell you one thing: I have NEVER sold a drug that CURED anything. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster