This IS NOT another what would you do thread. Recently a man here confronted a woman whose husband parked in a handicapped spot while others were available, then went into the convenience store with the son. Hearing there was a heated argument outside the handicapped parker went outside and found his wife going at it with this older man. He "allegedly" walks right up to the guy & shoves him to the ground, the guy gets to his knees pulls a gun & shoots him once killing him shortly after. Seen the video? Thoughts/opinions? Police did not arrest sighting stand your ground laws, & NO BURDEN OF PROOF on the shooter to prove anything. (as of this time) I'm withholding my thoughts/opinions for the time being.

CLEARWATER — Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri announced Friday that his agency will not arrest a man deputies say fatally shot another man during an argument over a handicap parking space.

Here is a link to story.
No arrest in fatal shooting during argument over handicap parking space

More details in this link:
Stand Your Ground? Handicapped parking feud leads to deadly Clearwater shooting

Bekeart

...the shooter armed himself...and then intentionally proceeded to confront illegal parkers like an armed vigilante...he could have and should have called the police with his concerns rather than confronting anyone...especially while armed...

..the illegal parkers were wrong...but not dead wrong...

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A Country Boy Can Survive

I agree. Being that I do have a disability, I do get irked when I see able bodied people abusing handicapped parking.
However, also being a concealed carrier, I avoid getting into confrontations that can escalate to violence.
Personally, I leave the handicapped spaces for people who are worse off than I am.

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Keep on Chooglin'

There were other regular parking spots that looked even closer.
Confronting a women who wasn't even driving & letting it get that heated, while armed???: eek:
Wrong as he may have been about the parking, finding someone in a verbal argument like that WITH YOUR WIFE, the shove does not come as a surprise.
AFTER the shove & the guy was down, the shover was still close & IMO a kick to the head was IMMENANT.
Once the gun was produced the shover appeared to backup & the shovee did not fire for app 3-4 seconds, NOT IN DANGER when the guy is backing away.
The parking lot vigilante had a history of confronting other non handicapped people parking in that spot.
IMO from a one angled view & no sound. This one oughta get interesting. With the vigilantes history, will there be any liability/blowback on the store??? Should they have seen this coming???
My sympathies to the wife & kid.
Go looking for trouble & you will usually find it.

Not a good thing for sure.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

Something comes to mind about an alligator and a coondog.

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NRA Life 1969
OGCA

The shooter is not home free yet. The DA can charge the guy or request the grand jury hear the case. Then, there are the civil lawsuits that he'll have to face.

JMHO, this was not a shoot situation. The old man started the argument and the attacker backed off when the gun was drawn.
OTOH, the attacker should not have assaulted the old man without first verbally confronting him and he was wrong to park there in the first place.
Serious mistakes on both sides resulting in a needless death.

There's an old saying:
"Never mess with an old man. They're too old to fight and too tired to run. They'll just kill you and be done with it."

I think if I am armed it's my responsibility to avoid an argument or fight if possible. As far as parking in handicap spaces go yes it irks me just like getting cut off in traffic bad service at restaurants on and on but not enough to argue ,1 if it's a business call the manager politely explain the problem,2 if it's illegal activity call the police or law enforcement entity for the area and again politely and concisely explain what you saw and where it happened ect. It makes every concealed carry person look bad when some one who knows they are armed intentionally gets in a heated argument regardless of the situation and deadly force is used to end it. I wonder if the guy would have been so outraged if he hadn't been armed that he would have done the same thing. It seems to me some people let having a weapon on them give them a lot of courage I wonder if it's real or they have read too many novels . Just me I guess but like earlier statement if you go looking for a fight or trouble it's out there and easy to find .

If the above is correct, and I have no reason to believe it is not. If this had happened in NC, the shooter would most likely be charged. A lay person understanding of NC laws is you lose the right to claim self-defense if you are the aggressor or if the aggressor attempts to retreat.

I can't but help but think the shooter was looking for a fight and got one. Now the shooter may in up spending the rest of his life in a much bigger fight than he ever believed could happen.

How many lives will be changed forever over a stupid parking spot, and two hot ego driven tempers. What the Hell is wrong with people today?

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Always Stay Strong!

First and foremost (to me), the deceased attacked an old man to the extent of knocking him down. Who knows what health issues the guy has? He could have hit his head and died. There was no way of knowing whether or not the physical attack would have continued. The shooter put an end to it.

You don't attack someone for arguing with your wife, you walk away from it unless the aggressor raises the stakes. Plus, what kind of hero attacks an old man?

This is another one of those very tricky situations that come down to one question:

To what degree can you legitimately claim self-defense in a situation which you needlessly provoked yourself?

It’s a bit like jumping into the tiger enclosure at the zoo with a rifle, and then claiming you had to shoot the tiger because it threatened you.

From the video, it is very hard to make an argument that a reasonable person would have been in fear for his life. He did get a quite strong shove to the ground, but there is no indication this was the beginning of a sustained attack, and the shooter fires quite deliberately after a few moments, even though the other guy starts backing away as soon as the gun is pointed. I think this would look bad to a jury.

47? Old man? You risk offending a lot of members here

He's very lucky so far.47 isn't old,haranguing some girl isn't very brave and a pissed off boyfriend isn't a surprise
wadda dope

A man needs to choose his battles wisely, and a handicapped parking spot is not one of those IMHO.

"OLD" begins at 75 ish.

...I agree...I definitely wasn't old 18 years ago when I was 47...

...I may have thought so at the time...

...another thing interesting about the story is that the handicapped parking spot is around the corner of the building...not even close to the door...

...it's at the Bud Light sign in the photo below...

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A Country Boy Can Survive

I BELIEVE the shooter, once shoved "so violently" to the ground had a reasonable fear of pending injury, there was a significant age difference & disparity of force, not to mention any medical conditions the shooter may have had. BUT the threat diminished greatly when the deceased began backing up at the sight of the gun. Don't bring your fists to a gunfight.

There is no sign. Just painting the lines and stop stone blue does not make a handicap spot in Florida. There must be a sign for those that are color blind.

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Dum vivo cano

[QUOTE=old bear;

How many lives will be changed forever over a stupid parking spot, and two hot ego driven tempers. What the Hell is wrong with people today?[/QUOTE]

the population of "special" people who, know for certain that they are perfect and deserve to be first in all things, has increased over the years.....

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There's nowt so queer as folk

I have had verbal altercations over parking spots, but do not recall being prepared to kill for one. I only parked in a handicap spot once when I had urgent business in the restroom coming off the highway at 2 am at a small town Holiday Inn and the rest of the parking was on the other side of the hotel and all eight handicap spots were empty. When I came out there was a man on crutches yelling at me and threatening to damage my car (mind you six handicap spots are still open) to which I said go ahead it is a company rental. He began saying things that I cannot type here - I said no more. I moved the car and went about my business, The next morning, I had an appointment to interview the representative of a potential contract manufacturer for a large contract with my Fortune 100 firm. In he came on his crutches...

I've been on both sides of the equation. When I had my knee surgery last year I obtained a temporary handicapped parking placard. The only problem I encountered was the small number of handicap parking spaces I would find, but they were occupied with cars that always appeared to be properly marked. If I went to an American Legion or VFW post, I would park in a regular space near the handicapped spaces because I figured there was a pretty good chance a veteran who was in worse condition than me would come along. I have come across some handicapped spaces, however, that were not well marked.

Handicapped spaces usually include an area for a wheelchair and a ramp. Not always the closest spot to the door. I can step up curbs but stepping down a curb can be an interesting challenge. I keep an eye out for ramps or something I can hold onto while stepping down. A lot of times that something's my wife.

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Keep on Chooglin'

[QUOTE=snubbyfan;140107898]Handicapped spaces usually include an area for a wheelchair and a ramp. Not always the closest spot to the door. I can step up curbs but stepping down a curb can be an interesting challenge. I keep an eye out for ramps or something I can hold onto while stepping down. A lot of times that's my wife."


WHOEVER parked that red car, taking up 2 spots & far enough out into the parking lot to hitchhike to the door, should get a parking award too.

Actually, there is a Handicapped Parking sign. Look closely.

Attached Images

sign.jpg (15.8 KB, 81 views)

I am 63 yrs old (but feel 47) and I have MS. My disability is not that noticeable but I have disabled license plates. I have been on both sides of arguments and carry a model 640 .38 most of the time. I have never been tempted to pull the gun in either situation. When my MS starts to affect my mind I will respectfully give / sell ALL my firearms.

didn't finish.... I will give/ sell all my guns.

OK But still it's to high and the half painted stop stone is another nice touch. I say it's still not up to code but in some towns close is good enough I guess.

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Dum vivo cano

I seriously doubt a larger/clearer handicapped parking ONLY sign would have mattered. It seemed he parked further away just to use that spot. IDK what was going thru his mind. Billy Bad Boy syndrome perhaps.

I agree. When I posted that I didn't know he was only 47. That said, some 47 year olds can be in the shape of a 65 year old. The more I consider this, the more I wonder how any of us would have reacted. This guy was coming on strong and looked to be in pretty good shape. He really slammed the shooter to the ground. How would any of us have handled that? I know my thought would be to stop the threat, especially so close and with confederates.

How do you know that the red car was not in motion when the image was taken??
Arriving ?? Departing ??

Bekeart

It could have been driven by Claude Rains (the invisible man). I saw it from other angles.

or maybe our shooter coulda chose better battles being he was a self appointed code enforcement officer for this particular parking space.


Guys that do scat like this are bad for the rest of us that don't. Zimmerman comes to mind. Because you have a CP doesn't mean you get to start playing cop.

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Dum vivo cano

With the scant information available to me, this appears to lie at the feet of Michael Drejka. This needn't have happened.

The coming civil suits will eviscerate him.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

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Keep on Chooglin'

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A Country Boy Can Survive

As long as it's a donut shop, all is well.

NO SHORTAGE of stupid (from either side) during this one.

Meaningless Confrontation: the unfortunate meeting of two fools.

Locally this week a wise man on the news said he awoke to his home alarm. Checking the monitor, someone was rifling through his car. He grabbed his gun and headed to the door. With his hand on the knob he thought if this goes south I might have to shoot someone. He replaced his gun with the phone and stayed inside.
Nothing was taken and he has video of the perp.

There is no winner in an argument, just the loudest fool.

I have two friends with MS, both like yourself are very able bodied....and are actually in better "shape" than myself..

I finally got so watch one of the videos of this incident. It seems less clear cut that the shooter wasn't justified.

From what I saw, the decedent came over and shoved the older/smaller man to the ground. From that angle, it didn't look like the decedent was involved in the argument, he just decided it was a good idea to attack the shooter.

It might have been reasonable to fear that the decedent was going to kick the shooter once he was down. Of course, if he was backing away and no longer posed a threat, the shooting probably wasn't justified.

There may be video from other angles that shows more, so my comment is based on what I saw.

I'm not an expert on FL law, but I seem to remember that FL is one of the states where is no criminal charges are filed, then a civil suit can't be filed either. Hopefully, someone with an understanding of FL law can clarify that.

It's possible that if this does go to trial, at least one juror will see reasonable doubt that a crime was committed.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

We should let this play out in the courts.

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"I also cook."