Even if she gets off criminally, the civil liability will not let her escape unscathed....sad situation all the way around.

Don't ER doctors, or "residents" work 36 hour shifts? Are there any documented cases of doctors blaming their ++++ ups on long hours?

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

In the same area with a bed available for a nap if needed. There is a reason the life expectancy for a DR is less than that of a non DR.

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Front sight and squeeze

In an often stressful and potentially dangerous job, eight hours per shift is is plenty, but that's not always practical or possible.

Didn't she commit a breaking and entering while in possession of a firearm?

I used to teach that you might mitigate the consequences of similar behavior only by having a 100% legal reason for the officers' presence in the first place.

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On the whistle draw and fire 6

Anyone who blames Guyger's tour of duty for the killing is simply incorrect. (Hope that word keeps me from ban camp.)

I daresay many first responders, utility workers, and public servants of all professions will be working LOTS of hours in the southeast in the days (weeks?) ahead. Many will be working far more than 15 hours/day.

I will wager that NONE of them will end their tour, go to the wrong house, and murder the occupant.

Anyone want to accept that bet? I am literally shocked at how many herein are essentially excusing Guyger's actions and blaming the Dallas PD.

Be safe.

I'm not an LEO, but I may be able to address this for you, as I am a 34 year career Paramedic and I CAN tell you that length of shifts is, and has been a concern for/in EMS (and Healthcare) for many years.

There have been more then a few studies done about the medical mistakes, and vehicle accidents, that have occurred due to sleep deprivation.

Let me give you an example......
"In the healthcare fields, sleep deprivation and fatigue are often linked to long shifts and overwork. Here too the negative effects have been exhaustively chronicled: Nurses working shifts longer than 12½ hours have shown greater risk of medical error.1,2 Physician interns working 80-hour weeks made 36% more serious medical errors and nearly six times more serious diagnostic errors than when working more limited schedules, and residents working 24 hours or more were more than twice as likely to crash driving home.3 Emergency medicine residents did worse on a standardized intelligence test after working a series of night shifts.4 When working five marathon (24+ hours) shifts in a month, first-year residents reported making 300% more fatigue-related mistakes that led to patients’ deaths, and their risk of making fatigue-related errors that harmed patients increased by 700%.5 Other studies abound." (from the article provided below)

Dead Tired | EMS World

I can tell you that I have worked many 24 hour (+) shifts in my career, however they will NO longer allow us to do it at my Full Time job (Hospital based) due to the potential problems.

A few years back, a paramedic at the end of a long shift blew a red light in a city fd ambulance and t-boned me at a intersection. Super nice guy and apologized profusely admitting he was tired and not paying attention.
About 25 years ago I was on my way home from work sitting at a red light when another driver tried to take a right turn too fast and struck my truck. When I called my insurance agent, after inquiring about injuries, one of the first things he asked was how many hours I had just worked. They are well aware of problems with sleep deprivation.
But none of this excuses the officers actions.

Actually, it may.

There have been studies that show various levels of sleep deprivation are worse then being drunk.

I'll look and see if I can find any of those studies.

Which brings us back to the question of how did they become sleep deprived, partying or work?

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Release the Kraken

Moderate sleep deprivation produces impairments in cognitive and motor performance equivalent to legally prescribed levels of alcohol intoxication

How is the body affected by sleep deprivation? | NICHD - Eunice Kennedy Shriver National Institute of Child Health and Human Development

Effects of total sleep deprivation on divided attention performance

All I'm saying is do NOT dismiss what sleep deprivation can do/cause.

Trust me, I know and have seen, the results.

I heard on the news that this was her 2nd shooting. I have not heard this since. Anybody know for sure?

I believe someone here said she had worked a 15 hour shift, so what was your question?

And no where in my response, or articles presented were they "partying".

I don't think many people get/understand the effects of sleep deprivation, but trust me (or don't, do your own research), they exist and are real.

No, you did not mention partying. That was a bit trite on my part and I apologize.

What I was trying to highlight is whether the people concerned became sleep deprived by choice, or were forced into it by other circumstances, like working a 15 hour shift.

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Release the Kraken

My apologies also, I am still recovering from a head injury, and am not at 100%.

Looking up studies, etc put me in front of the computer longer then I’m supposed to be, so please excuse me for being “testy” in my answer.

I truly feel sorry for all involved, in what appears to be a terrible accident (IMHO), and am just trying to provide some possible reasons.

22+ years as a LEO. I can't say what I really think without receiving demerits. I don't believe the story as it is being reported.

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Certified Curmudgeon

Why is everyone so quick to hang this woman? None of us don't even know her, or the victim. It's none of our business.
I hate it when people pull the old I done X before and I never done Y, there is NO excuse cliche. We don't truly know the circumstances that led up to this tragedy.
I mean did she had any sleep the day before? What was her work load that week? What was her shift like?

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Fear only God

Yeah, but drawing a gun and shooting someone dead? I can see forgetfulness, clumsiness, misplacing things or even dozing off behind the wheel and wrecking vehicles. But drawing a deadly weapon...aiming...shot placement...all successfully done. OOPS...ehh?

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

Because the initial story didn't pass the smell test, neither did her later story.

Some other details have since come out. True, false, somewhere in between? Who knows?

Yes, this is correct. She got into a tussle while taking a suspect into custody in 2017 or 16. The suspect grabbed for her taser and she shot him.....

IMHO this suspects profession is irrelevant as the incident occurred off duty and while engaging in personal activities. The suspect is entitled to her day in court and should be treated as any other citizen would in this kind of situation.

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

News outlets are playing up the story to appease their audience.

The investigation is now in the hands of the Texas Rangers.

I'll withhold my opinion, till that investigation is complete.


.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

In my Army days complaints of sleep deprivation were dismissed as so much childish whining and a mark of a malingerer.
Never an LEO or any kind of First Responder/emergency worker. But I think I could recognize my own floor and my own apartment. 15 hour shift ? Fudd that I am, I have no access to any stimulants stronger than OTC caffeine tablets, I won't hesitate to take one when the eyelids weigh 30 pounds and I can't stop yawning. One limousine driver told me when he was on the road and grappling with Morpheus he'd tell the passengers he heard something and was pulling over to check it, he said a quick walk around the car and a few deep breaths of cold winter air worked wonders.
The LEOS in my town work 12 hour shifts.

Too many times I'll work 24 out of 32 hours, sometimes twice a week, I think maybe twice I've said to someone, hey hold the fort while I catch twenty. Or worked a day in Underground, stayed late until 2200 and traffic slows enough to rip up the road. Guys all doing the same, running the equipment, riding a jackhammer, piecing together parts.
Not only did we do our job we knew who was doing what and we all had each other backs.
Maybe that doesn't translate well into other fields but that's how we flew.

Many a night got home at 8pm. After a shower,something to eat and de-stressing it was 10pm then back on the road at 4am.
When working 12 hours on 6 hours off or 16 hour shifts, I spent a few nights sleeping in the car in the Federal Building parking Garage or a rest stop. Just to tired to go home.
The thing is a person has to know their limits.
My prayers go out to everyone involved. It was an unfortunate incident!

Virtually no LE experience here. LEO's may be able to smell things that I can't smell.

However, sleep deprivation can produce strange results. I DO know that.

I am willing to wait to hear the rest of the story.

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Formerly Model520Fan

When I was a USAF cop, we worked 12 hours on and 12 hours off for several months, because someone wa sabotaging planes at bases in the western US. They finally caught the guy in AZ, a major with some grudge. I was stationed in Denver then, at Lowry AFB. He cost us a lot of sleep and happy off duty time.

I think Miss Amber needs to explain why her key not working in the door didn't alert her that she might have the wrong apartment. But why was the apartment dark inside and why did the occupant fail to respond to police orders? Was the occupant in bed and did he rise to check his door when he heard her?

I suspect that Amber is about to be fired. She's charged with Manslaughter, and a very aggressive DA has emotionally stated on TV that she'll hang her (the cop) as high as she can, or said as much in different words. I think this is her intent, for reasons I can't post here.

I doubt this lady will ever again work as a police officer and she'll be ruined financially and may do prison time.

I've seen just one picture of her, and I'll tell you one thing after looking into her eyes: this is a person I'd hate to upset. She also has bags under her eyes, from lack of sleep.

How much can lack of sleep hurt? I saw a video about Air Policemen who took an Army Ranger class before going to Vietnam. One said he had been so exhausted after a week of that or actual combat patrols (I forgot which) he tried to put a quarter into a tree trunk, thinking it was a pop/soda machine!

Because the door was slightly ajar, so that when she inserted her door card, it simply pushed in. You know, same way it would if the door had been forced.

Lights were out, he was watching TV. To be honest, I actually don't blame any of his reactions. I don't think they were correct, but this guy probably hadn't studied the same sort of stuff I have.

I also can't blame hers, except to say that flashlights and IDing your target can come in handy.

No.

First, your last quote that appears to be from me is from someone else. Please correct that impression.

Didn't she commit a breaking and entering while in possession of a firearm?
No. Not my comment. I don't think she was breaking and entering, under the circumstances


Secondly, you have been listening to different news sources than I have. I heard there was a normal key, not a card, and that she broke it off in the lock, and later changed her story to say the door was ajar.

Relatives of Mr. Jean also claim he had a red doormat that she didn't.
I really think we need to chill out and let the facts emerge. With various reporters trying to look as if they know more than they do and conjecture being a factor, I'm going to wait and see what shakes out.

Yes. Your source appears to either be Lee Merritt--attorney for the family of the deceased--or one of the inflammatory articles written based on his statements.

I've been reading the other ones, I guess.

Many believe there is something beyond fishy about the officer's claims about what happened. I think that the last word on this won't occur until the case goes through the investigative and court processes.

Will the "LAST WORD" be the truth??

“Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.” - Mark Twain

Bekeart

Sadly, truth is in short supply these days. Now there are two versions of every story - 1. Reality aka "what really happened." and 2. The "official version" which has been scrubbed and PC'ed for public consumption.

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

I strongly agree with your thoughts on shift work. I've worked rotating shifts for years, it's no fun, I always hoped they would decide to go with fixed shifts but they never did. I now work 4/10s and even though it's all night shift, I love it.
I strongly disagree with your thoughts on locked doors and women.
The victim has no legal or moral responsibility to lock his door. At night it's a very good idea but absolutely no blame (zero) can be placed on him for not having them locked.
Anyone, any gender, should make some effort to find out what the intention of any persons are before killing them.

Two replies have critiqued my assertion about locked doors and women. You are both entitled to do so, but missed the point. My point about locked doors (and other entry/exit points) along with some of the other advice I have given about layers of home defense in other strings is that they help prevent errors and help show the reasonableness of the resident's perception of high levels of threat. It is not about blaming victim - it is about applying sound tactical analysis to the reduction of risk. Example: the career ending beating of Reginald Denny during the LA riots. He should never have stopped - and his company should have had a mandatory policy of locking the doors of the trucks, with firing for a first offense. I vigorously advocated that for my company. It will only matter when it really matters. I had someone try to stop me in a crud neighborhood when I was running OTR - I kept upshifting and he moved. It was after the Denny incident and I could articulate why I was doing what I did.

Likewise, I can articulate that no one who does not belong in my home can be there without committing a crime. Period. Some criminals are really, really, truly dangerous. How many? A relatively small percentage, probably - but it not my obligation to discern that when what I know is that they are already criminals and in a place in which they have no legitimate business. They are the only ones responsible for their well-being, and can maintain it by not doing things that make a reasonable person believe that they are a threat. American private citizens, like cops, kill far fewer violent offenders than would be justified. With cops it is at most 5%, and usually fewer every year. With private citizens, I have not looked at the data in years, but I doubt it is even close to the level of cops.

I have spent a lot of time in a courtroom. I have little fear and mostly contempt for the vast majority of lawyers. This is especially true when it comes to use of force. I have been researching, writing, and teaching on the topic since law school to some extent. I, along with others familiar with the arena, believe that if there are 500 attorneys who actually know enough to have any business litigating such a case, that's the most. I study tactical issues (which is why I advocate some of the reading materials I do in many responses). I am relatively aware of the dynamics of violent conflict (not to the extent of BTDTs like Rietz, Bolke, etc., but far more than the vast majority of academic and practitioner lawyers). Based on that, and the general physical realities of women versus men, not even including the disabilities of age, bad backs, and the like for many women, I advocated a position. One of the factors often ignored or unknown is the speed at which these events occur. The time at issue, and the difference between success and failure (life and death) is measured, not in seconds, but in hundredths of seconds. Indecisiveness is fatal, and the time to consider your tactics and options is long before the event.

I can articulate why I took that position. I did not do it willy-nilly. I discussed this issue with two colleagues with whom I have done a lot of academic work over the last decades, one of whom has been my co-author on several articles and books, both well qualified experts on control tactics and use of force. (It is not defensive tactics - it is control tactics - cops get to control their encounters, in addition to the right of self-defense. The illiterate labeling, like referring to "less than lethal" as "less lethal" is an indication that one should be retrained at a minimum.) I also ran the scenario by a felony prosecutor in my office with whom I have worked for years, a woman my age with some physical issues - she concurred completely. In the setting of a woman and a male intruder, the intentions of the intruder are at best very bad, and further inquiry is neither prudent nor required. If that does not work for you, don't adhere to my position - it's your choice and your life.

Myself? I spent a lot of time in LE and we were trained to voice commands as part of our firearms training. (Many of which are not legally necessary, for many reasons, but are driven by politics and the perceptions of the snowflakes who don't know what they don't know.) I am SURE that when presented with a situation that requires control, I will be voicing commands at one hell of a volume - they will be clear, unambiguous, and not at all gentle. That's reality. I'm loud. I have awaken passed out tweakers in court. I have made people cry when telling them to get away from me. NMFP. When it comes to one's well-being, there is no requirement to be nice, or polite, and in fact it is contraindicated.

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NHI, 10-8.

The first shoe fell.

Dallas police officer Amber Guyger fired after fatally shooting neighbor Botham Jean | Fox News

Story has NO mention of her being fired for "the shooting".


Link to the Quote\: Dallas police officer Amber Guyger fired after fatally shooting neighbor Botham Jean | Fox News

Bekeart

"Adverse conduct" covers a lot of ground, high and low. If true I suspect her department couldn't believe their luck that she handed them the jettison button.

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Release the Kraken

No one claims so.

Nope. Lots of people can end up in your abode without "knowingly" committing a crime, which is the threshold. I could explain further, but I'd need flowcharts, a white board, and a Powerpoint presentation . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I spent 365 days with DHS, they could do with $5.79 what NYPD could do with $0.79. ;-)

While I agree with your assessment that a hypothetical person could end up in another hypothetical person's residence and not be guilty of a criminal trespass for lack of mens rea; I also believe that a hypothetical attorney on his first case could make a convincing argument that the hypothetical person was grossly negligent in shooting to death the hypothetical legal occupant of the residence.

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Certified Curmudgeon

Duly noted . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Let's see. The takeaway from this fair and balanced article is, at this point - if cop murders someone, gets fired. If citizen murders someone, gets 20 to life or, in more sensible states lethal injection.

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

Employment action is altogether separate from the criminal investigation. Said criminal investigation is ongoing.

That said, I applaud the Dallas PD for their timely removal of this person.

Be safe.

Ongoing investigation? I'm not sure what evidence there is to discover at this point. She walked into the wrong apartment and shot and killed the resident. If they are still looking for evidence...it is most likely they are looking for a reason to exonerate the shooter. IMHO she doesn't have much ground to stand on (pun intended). In the case of a home invasion...can we reasonably call it anything but?..it is near impossible to prove the homeowner was perceived as a threat.

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

Consider that gag stolen and rewritten as needed.

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Release the Kraken

Mea culpa, sorry to plagiarize.:-(

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Certified Curmudgeon

*
Other than a person who is incapable of being prosecuted due to their inability form the requisite mental state, I would be curious about the support for the position asserted. The inability to form enough of a mental state to be prosecuted, which is a possible weakness in my statement, is not relevant to the perception of threat. There is really good case law on this and I am not worried about the minor possibility of that. We also have good civil immunities here and filing a case of that nature in such circumstances would be a good way to get hit hard with frivolous pleading sanctions and a Bar problem.

I have carefully set up my residence to make it extremely unlikely (impossible as a practical matter) to have an inadvertent/non-threatening entry. The house is posted no trespassing adjacent to the sidewalk to the door. It is not lawful to pass that sign in this State (with 2 exceptions that don't matter). I also have a 6' fence that goes completely around the house, from one side of the garage (thus blocking that sidewalk) around the back yard, to the other side of the garage. The gates are padlocked. Even without the sign, it is a crime to come over the fence (except for the same exceptions). One cannot get to the door to ring the doorbell without doing so. The doors are locked all the time.

One would have to force the doors or a window to get in. That's while 165 pounds of Rottweilers (Ted is a mix, but mostly rott) is expressing their protective nature at a high volume - high enough that with one or more of their predecessors it was almost impossible to make a phone call and be heard (like to LE). As the owner Leerburg (serious working K9 dude, former LE) has said - anyone who tried to get in past protective dogs acting like that (he was referring to GSDs, but it's across the board sound) needs to be shot.

I want to make the criminally feral go somewhere else. That's the first step in personal protection. If someone works so hard to get in here, only a complete idiot would not consider them an immediate threat to my life in need of being addressed with lethal force.

I'm not going to defend this former officer. Clearly her prior shooting was not merely a good shoot, but inane. This is not, and firing her consistent with labor law processes was a forgone conclusion. She is legally responsible for the circumstances here, in the criminal sense. DPD is almost certain to have real civil exposure as I expressed before, and I stand by that assertion. Although it is unlikely that the proper action will be taken, I'm willing to predict that a properly done AAR will reveal the need for major changes to address stuff that should not have been a surprise and that multiple upper level command officers need to be fired. In my experience, command officers far too often do not know what they do not know, and LE legal advisors are at least as bad. I am involved on a national basis in such things, and see a lot of outcomes that are stupid and inexcusable.

What I will stick with is that once she was there (where she did not belong), her perception of risk based on a belief that the victim was an intruder was correct.

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NHI, 10-8.

GUITLY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!!!

Disclaimer: I know nothing about the case.

While I agree she is (probably) guilty of manslaughter, she did give the victim verbal warning, at least according to her statements. If she had been at the location in the line of duty, even if she had gotten the wrong apartment, she would be in the clear, IM non-attorney O. It seems to be quite prevalent in an urban setting.