A Woman and her daughter were hiking on a trail in the Great Smokies near the NC and TN border. The mother stepped off the trail and the daughter walked ahead. When her mother didn't reappear, she went back and couldn't find her. A search was mounted almost immediately. She's been gone almost three days and the search group was large and experience and Rangers even worked through the night.

I don't think it was a bear, there should be noise and signs of a struggle or being dragged off.

Before I jump to conclusions, a women got lost on the Appalachian Trail and in spite of searhes, wasn't found until about a year later starved in a camp she made less than half a mile from the trail.

What gives me the creeps though, was somebody waiting in the woods for an opportunity to grab a lone female? If they told her to be quiet and marched her off into the woods they could be miles away. If she was disabled, it would still seem that there would be drag marks, but maybe he could carry her away.

Does anybody have any more news about this?

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

From 5 hours ago:

Search intensifies for Cleves woman missing in Great Smoky Mountains National Park - WCPO Cincinnati, OH

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

Wow.....scary indeed. I hope she's found well, and in one piece.

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With all the SAR response and searching, I'd say being snatched is a HIGH probability.

I imagine the daughter is totally freaked out. There are all sorts of things that could have happened to the mother and I sure hope what happened wasn't a worst case situation.

I don't understand why they would agree to separate and go different ways and meet up later back at ground zero. That makes no sense to me. I would surely think dogs should have found a scent to track. That makes no sense either.

I sure hope for all concerned that she is found unharmed.

Missing 411. Search it.

The woman on the AT was found THREE YEARS later about 600 meters off the trail. She has lived 19 days according to her journal before she starved. Four instructors for the Ft. Huachuca master tracker course were among the many who looked for her (Geraldine). The wilderness is not to be trifled with.

Maybe the daughter did something to her?

Some people, city people, really have no idea about the Boondocks and what can happen there.

That part of the article is worded wrong. They had a plan to meet at a certain place if they became separated.

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I got the impression, from the original post, that Mama stepped off the trail to water a bush, and the girl walked on to give her a little privacy.

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I always take precautions

Why do people find this mysterious?

It's extraordinarily easy to become disoriented after you leave a hiking trail. They're not particularly easy to see unless you're right on top of them. Typically, what happens is the person steps off the trail, turns around, can't find it, panics, and then starts stumbling around blindly. Five minutes of that and they can be anywhere.

They used to make these things called "compasses". Real handy.

But no, I'm sure Bigfoot or a homicidal woods-vagrant got her.

I am like Daniel Boone. I have never been lostt, but, I have been mighty confused a time or 2. I hate heavy cover worst, because it makes it hard to see good land marks. Some people have not learned to note landmarks as the move along and some people have a horrible sense of direction. Neverr been that big on a compass myself. Now days I do have a hand held GPS, but thats mostly, because they are so great with.
property lines.

If me or one of my brothers ever get lost or injured and don't show up in a reasonable amount of time just look for the really big fire.

There's always the remote possibility that, for reasons unknown to us, she wanted to vanish -- debt, bad relationship etc.

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

These concepts swirled all around back when Gerry was lost on the AT, and she was found dead scant feet from where they were looking. Any skepticism I had about dissappearances before that case are mostly gone now. I have seen the woods swallow people up, not to give them up for a long time.

The dense and rugged wilderness of that area always impresses me, and I pray for that poor lost soul.

This is from the Cherokee Nation which borders the park.

Park continues extensive search for missing woman |
The Cherokee One Feather

I've hiked extensively in that park, and in that area. By and large the trails are well worn and well marked.

That said, if you get off the trails a bit, due to the heavy undergrowth, laurels, rhododendron and brush, it is easy for the unwary to get turned around. (Or injured / incapacitated.)

There are any number of "reasons" she may have gone missing so I won't speculate absent further information.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

In poor light, you can walk right across a hiking trail and not realize that you have crossed it. Steep ravines can block GPS signals. Anyone venturing into the woods should have two forms of navigation (GPS, compass and maps) and know how to use both. A satellite locator distress beacon, like downed pilots would use, is also available to the general population.

This sounds like a criminal intervention.

People going into these parks and hiking trails have no idea what they are
doing. They have no conception of what they are doing. Thousands of these people use these trails and survive because they stick to the trails.
If people used common sense and researched the area they were going to
hike they may have a better chance of finding their way back to trails. To
many approach these areas like a trip through a fun house.

I stumbled across several articles describing all the "mysterious" disappearances in our national parks and it was quite a read.

Be safe out there.

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Isaiah 41:10

Do you have any links, Mike?

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How 1,600 People Went Missing from Our Public Lands Without a Trace | Outside Online

A lot of what I read seems to center around the upcoming movie about Missing 411 so it could be a lot of hype. However if the "facts" are true it's quite intriguing.

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Isaiah 41:10

I've heard warnings: That if you plan to camp out along the Appalachian Trail --- Set up camp far enough away, that you're out of sight of the AT, because of prowlers that walk the trail.

The thought of a homicidal prowler lurking in the woods or getting dragged off by a bear is sexier to contemplate, but statistically the danger is minimal compared to simply getting lost.

As several posters with experience have already described, the woods along the AT are particularly dangerous because the solid dense cover and undergrowth make orientation by landmarks impossible. Stand on a prominent viewpoint like Clingman’s Dome and you might as well be looking out over the Amazon jungle.

Yet many people, especially if they are not the outdoors type, don’t take it seriously because it’s “just” a walk in the Eastern woods, not “real wilderness” like out West or in Alaska.

Then they step 50 feet away from the trail to drop their shorts, maybe zig-zag a bit to avoid some fallen trees, and suddenly the way back could be in any of the 360 degrees of the compass.

That can be the fatal mistake.

I've done a lot of hiking and backpacking over the decades and never got really lost. I've been temporarily misplaced a time or two but I've always been able to find my way back.
I've spent up to a week wandering around on the Appalachian Trail before. Just me and my backpack.
I've explored many trails out here in the mountains of West Virginia and found some cool stuff. A lot of the old trails are so overgrown that they no longer exist.
That said, I've always found it easier to navigate my way in the woods than on city streets.
The first thing I thought when I read the artice was that they shoulda got an Injun and tried tracking her first. They knew where she stepped off the trail. She must have left some kind of evidence of where she went. Instead they stomped around and obliterated any sign that could have been followed.
When I've temporarliy misplaced myself, I've been able to to just track my way back to where I diverged from the trail. It wasn't always easy but it was possible.

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Keep on Chooglin'

The worst I've been misplaced was overnight at 12,000' on top of 4' of compacted snow.Worked my way out the next day by going higher to spot landmarks and bushwhacking my way out.Bought a GPS the next day lol

Between tours in Vietnam I spent several months at the Infantry School, Fort Benning, Georgia, as an instructor. Students were usually brand new second lieutenants recently graduated from college ROTC with an occasional bunch of West Point cadets. Courses included map reading (topographical), compass, land navigation, terrain orientation, etc. Practical exercises were conducted during daylight and at night, usually involving navigation of a course including multiple destinations over several miles in dense forests, swamps, and water obstacles. Trainees usually went out in teams of two. Only equipment allowed was a topo map, lensatic compass, canteen, rain poncho, maybe a C-ration meal if the exercise was for more than 4 or 5 hours. Some exercises included "hostile forces" in the area, squad-sized patrols actively seeking to locate and "capture" the trainees.

I don't recall very many exercises, regardless of weather conditions or day/night operation, in which we didn't "lose" a few that we had to go out and find, sometimes using helicopters for the search. We always found everyone, but a few managed to stay lost for a day or so. I remember a couple showing up in the back of a farmer's pickup, found several miles off the military reservation on a road.

Varying degrees of injury were common; sprained ankles, broken ribs, leg and arm fractures, usually resulting from slip-and-fall incidents.

These were all young men in their early to mid-20's, usually physically fit, college graduates (before grades were devalued), motivated by the knowledge that they were soon likely to be thrown into a combat role. Failing to complete each week's training exercises usually resulted in "recycling", set back to re-do the prior week or two weeks of training. In short, they all knew that what they were learning could easily become life-or-death knowledge.

I remember joking about my secret weapons: second lieutenants with compasses and maps, impossible to predict where they might strike!

Now, as an old retired cop, I hear about two women hiking a remote area (that is also used fairly heavily for many others), and one disappearing without explanation. I start thinking about those holding grudges, relationship problems, assets, wills, insurance policies, business interests, and lots of other investigative paths, probably more so than the actual path the women were hiking. I also think about the administrative side of coordinating multiple agencies, probably volunteer S&R personnel, communications, logistics, media relations, and all the rest involved.

I sincerely hope for the best result, which will be finding a living and breathing woman without loss or injuries to those tasked with that mission.

back in the mid 1990’s, two women were murdered in their camp in the Shenandoah Forest in Virginia. I do not believe their killer was ever caught.

...this reminds me of the book..."The Sleeping Lady"...by Robert Graysmith...

...it's the true story of David Carpenter...a serial killer who abducted his victims from trails in the California woods...

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A Country Boy Can Survive

How “mysterious” and how scary this seems all depends how you phrase it and how you frame the story.

I have no doubt that some of the 1600 or so people that have gone missing from public lands over a century were victims of foul play, or wild animals, or maybe Bigfoot, or UFO abductions.

But given the size of public lands, and considering that at any given time there are several hundred thousand Americans gone missing, most of them from cities and other inhabited areas, public lands seem to be about the safest places to go if you don’t want to disappear

This. The sheer volume of these cases in or near National Parks is astonishing.

I've always found a J or K frame mighty comforting while wandering around the scary old woods.

these missing humans were alien abducted and beamed up to the mother ship for examination.....

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There's nowt so queer as folk

Ran across some European hikers once that said they couldn't find any signs and then asked where the nearest forest office was. I don't think he liked hearing that it was in a town over 50 miles away. I used to live outside Florence Montana, on Sweeney creek. If you went to the end of the forest service road, there was a trail head. 2 miles in on it was primitive wilderness area. West there was a road in about 20 miles or so, same thing to the North. To the South west, it was over 50 miles. You could get lost back there. One spring my brother and I headed in there and after we hit snow we lost the trail. Was some pretty rough going and when we knew we were not going to get where we wanted be by dark we turned and went down hill. Got out of most of the snow when we hit the side of the canyon Sweeney creek cuts through. Camped on a big flat rock on the edge of the canyon. We weren't lost we were having an adventure. Wandered up the mountain looking for elk. Went over a couple saddles and around a few knobs. Was out for maybe 6 hours. Headed back. got down to about the right elevation and in the right canyon. Ran into a logging road going the right was and followed it. Finall I could see my Jeepster parked on the road ahead. When around a couple curves and howdy doody. There is a big old deep cut between me and the piece of road my rig is on. Its either CLIMB Down and CLIMB UP about 100ft or so pf near vertical wash or head back up the mountain to find the head of the wash and go around. I went up. That last 1/4 mile took me well over an hour.

Even when you are pretty sure you know where you are the terrain can make it tough.

Matches check, knife check, some hard candy check. I always carried a small pack of stuff in those days.

Here is a good deal. Get an old plastic snoose can. Like for Copenhagen. Stick some waxed sawdust or cotton in it formed so it fits in the sides and leaves the center 1/2 to 3/4" of an inch open fill that with wax dipped strike anywhere matches. Cut a piece of heavy sandpaper in a circle that fits the lid and put it in rough side toward the lid. Close it up and wrap some yellow, red or orange electrical tape around it 3 or 4 times to seal it. Leave a little end of the tape folded over so it sticks to itself and makes a tab you can grab with cold fingers. Keep that in a pocket. Once my brother and I tipped a canoe over in the river trapping beaver in the winter. Using that setup to start a fire right now was a really handy. I call it Jim's Sure Fire.

I wonder how long they were apart before the daughter started looking for her? You would think they would both be shouting loudly for the other unless they were near a waterfall that can be heard quite a distance.
Steve W

I soak my old dryer lint in vaseline petroluem jelly and stick in altoid cans with matches and a fire stick. Same principle. The fire stick lights it immediately. Matches not required.

Who is an avid hiker and isn't aware of many edible things in the woods?

When winter backpacking, the temps have gotten below 30 below zero (that's as far down as my thermometer went and it was pegged) Always go with at least one other person and we each carried a coupla road flares in zip lock bags. If it gets that cold and you need a fire, you don't need to be messing around with kindling. Just make a mound of wood and stick a lit road flare in the middle. Works even with wet wood or ice and snow covered wood.

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Keep on Chooglin'

A lot, it seems, of people are taught to, when lost, go downhill, strike a water course and follow it out to civilization.

If you come out of the GSMNP on Fontana Lake (240 miles of shoreline, more of less) you can still be a long way from help.

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On the whistle draw and fire 6

I've been thinking of doing that. 'Cept I usually carry a lighter or 3.

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Keep on Chooglin'

used to carry always take a reading before leaveing a vehicle/ camp off a compass, put in my backpack. always wore a ball compass, which doesn't cost much. was invited to a camp, N/ central Pa. one year for deer season. was high on the benchs, stayed until dark, always easier to drag a buck downhill. no deer. it started to snow, then a white out blizzard. when i finally got down to the bottom, couldn't see anything, wasn't where i thought i should have been. couldn't relate to bush w/ the white out. read the compass in my pack, walked reading, couldn't see anything but i could hear guys talking, surprised that i couldn't even see the light on the porch, and i was close. so lesson learned. the guys were just going to start blowing their vehicle horn.

I stick em in sandwich bags soaked in PJ then in altoids cans with a firestick or lighter or matches. Carry in all my packs. Then put extras in ziplocks in larger containers. In a pinch the ziplocks can be used as water containers.

But I should have with all of the crime stuff I"ve seen on the TV. Wonder if she had a big insurance policy.?

They haven't given details, but nobody has said anything about a TRACE of evidence. Wonder if Mom is buried in a shallow grave somewhere else. Could be a deception.

I hope it's none of that, not only for the Mom, but the daughter,too.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

That, my friend. Is a point in favour of us smokers.

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Expect the unexpected

The butler did it.

It's always the butler.

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Expect the unexpected

Not only do you have to deal with forest, animal predators, inclement weather, communication and all of the survival stuff, but all of the two legged predators that are probably much more of the problem.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Yup, and I have my cigars and cutter in a water proof container.

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Keep on Chooglin'

Cigars, jacket, sleeping bag, tent.......

You have to make sure of the most important items.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Yup, 'cept the tent. I'd use a bivy bag instead.

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Keep on Chooglin'

I was in New Delhi on business. One afternoon I put on jeans and T-shirt and went for a walk. Next thing I knew I was in a poverty stricken slum that just does not exist in the USA. I stood out like a sore thumb as I walked. I had no idea where I was or how to get back. I was getting not so friendly looks. Then it got dark. Every time I passed a dark alley or door way I was bracing myself to get pulled in. Eventually I returned safely, but that was scary.

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Just hanging with my dogs