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10-15-2018, 10:32 AM
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Two much time on my hands.
Ok this hit me yesterday. How come you dont see ( to my knowledge) firearm manufactures bulding semi autos in .357 , 44 mag , .38. In 2018 I am sure it could be done and think about it would be way cool. A 44mag in semi , or 357. Bang !!!. Ok let me go review my to do list and get busy. Lol. Ps I would by a .38 , or 357 in an M & P .
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Last edited by wingriderz; 10-15-2018 at 10:35 AM.
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10-15-2018, 10:41 AM
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Google Desert Eagle
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10-15-2018, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingriderz
Ok this hit me yesterday. How come you dont see ( to my knowledge) firearm manufactures bulding semi autos in .357 , 44 mag , .38. In 2018 I am sure it could be done and think abot it it would be way cool. A 44mag in semi , or 357. Bang !!!. Ok let go review my to do list and get busy. Lol.
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Yes it can be done and it already has been done.
Colt Gold Cup in .38 Spl.
S&W M52 in .38 Spl.
.44 Auto-mag in .44 Mag.
Coonan 1911 in .357 Mag. / .38 Spl.
The problem with chambering Autoloaders in a Revolver (rimmed) cartridge is the rim. The rim creates stacking problems in the magazine and reliability issues as well. Many of the Auto's that have been chambered in Revolver Cartridges hold relatively few rounds (because of "curving of the ammo as it stacks on the rim) and other than as a target only gun they have not really been practical.
I would also think they are quite expensive to make and tolerances would be more critical I would think. Most Revolver calibers and cartridges DO sort of have counterparts in rimless auto cartridges that work quite well.
.357 Magnum = .38 Super
.45 Colt = .45 acp
.38 Spl. = 9mm
.38S&W - .380 acp
So while the technology IS there and it HAS been done, it is just not practical, needed and or in great demand.
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10-15-2018, 10:49 AM
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Semi-auto firearms have been manufactured for .38 Special (Colt Gold Cup .38 Midrange wadcutter, and others), .357 & .44 Mag (Auto-Mag, Desert Eagle), and others. Some of these designs are more sensitive to cartridge loading, bullet profile, etc, than others).
The first challenge in building semi-auto firearms chambered for rimmed cartridges is the rim itself. This places limits on the angle at which the cartridges may be loaded into a magazine without the rims interfering with proper feeding, and an angle that allows proper feed cycle may not be the best angle for allowing the cartridge to be moved from magazine to chamber. As most semi-auto pistols feed from a magazine contained within the grip-frame, the angle required for proper feeding and functioning may not be the best angle for ergonomic considerations.
So far, to my knowledge, all semi-auto pistols chambered for rimmed cartridges have been either high-end (i.e.: expensive) target pistols, or very expensive, very large, and very heavy guns primarily suitable for hunting or other specialized purposes.
Firearms manufacturers tend to concentrate their manufacturing capability to serve the broadest portions of the marketplace. Tying up production lines and skilled workers to produce products desired by only a small portion of the buying public is not the most profitable way to use those assets.
If you really want a .44 mag or .357 mag autoloader you can probably find the Auto-Mag and Desert Eagle pistols without too much difficulty. Then the only limits will be your budget and willingness to part with the prices required.
Last edited by LoboGunLeather; 10-15-2018 at 10:51 AM.
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10-15-2018, 10:50 AM
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AND....... every decade or so some manufacturer DOES come out with an Autoloading Pistol Chambered in a Revolver caliber and it usually flops and is not in production very long. I suppose they got tired of loosing money and once again, there isn't much of a demand.
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10-15-2018, 11:03 AM
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I've got Smith & Wesson Model 52's, a Coonan and a Walther GSP, all of which shoot rimmed revolver rounds. Each of these are guns that I love deeply and enjoy very, very much. They are all pretty specialized handguns and none of them are for the average buyer who isn't a real shooting enthusiast. The Coonan comes closest to mainstream as it will happily digest basically any factory .357 Magnum ammo as long as it isn't wimpy. The other two need a specialized load that simply isn't all that easy to find at most ammo counters in the sporting good store.
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10-15-2018, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chief38
Most Revolver calibers and cartridges DO sort of have counterparts in rimless auto cartridges that work quite well.
.357 Magnum = .38 Super
.45 Colt = .45 acp
.38 Spl. = 9mm
.38S&W - .380 acp
So while the technology IS there and it HAS been done, it is just not practical, needed and or in great demand.
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I'm with the Chief on this. My Dad was interested in getting a Coonan, but I convinced him that a 1911 in .38 Super offered the same ballistics and greater reliability... without the expense and waiting period of the Coonan's (which IMO are nothing more than"novelty guns"). I've never handled one, but I imagine the grips on a Coonan are a bit awkward...housing a cartridge as long as the .357 mag.
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10-15-2018, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 500SNW
I've never handled one
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Hahaha, expert commentary there. I've got 3,908 rounds through a Coonan that says it's a reliable, extremely fun pistol that will run absolute circles around any .38 Super and do it with MORE reliability than the semi-rimmed .38 Super is known for. I've got hands-on with four other Coonan pistols, same bottom line.
If he handloads, he's got infinitely more options in ammo when he's making it.
If he doesn't handload, he's got infinitely more options in ammo when he's buying it.
There are plenty of reasons to NOT get a Coonan in .357 Mag, but a .38 Super is a poor one and is simply going to lose this showdown.
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10-15-2018, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens
Hahaha, expert commentary there. I've got 3,908 rounds through a Coonan that says it's a reliable, extremely fun pistol that will run absolute circles around any .38 Super and do it with MORE reliability than the semi-rimmed .38 Super is known for. I've got hands-on with four other Coonan pistols, same bottom line.
If he handloads, he's got infinitely more options in ammo when he's making it.
If he doesn't handload, he's got infinitely more options in ammo when he's buying it.
There are plenty of reasons to NOT get a Coonan in .357 Mag, but a .38 Super is a poor one and is simply going to lose this showdown.
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Well said...and stated with the level of class I expected from you when I was typing it out. We all have our own opinions...no need for taking everything personal....or interpreting it as a "showdown" (your own words).
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Last edited by 500SNW; 10-15-2018 at 11:38 AM.
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10-15-2018, 12:11 PM
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Preceding the Colt National Match in .38 Special were the conversions made by such old time pistolsmiths as Jim Clark and John Giles where they converted .38 Super Colt 1911's to shoot the .38 Special flush seated wadcutter target loads. These were specialized bullseye target shooting pistols to be used in the centerfire portion of a 900 match. Every so often one shows up on the used gun market. About 20 years I was able to acquire one made by John Giles. Maybe I'll get it out and play with it now that I have more time.
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10-15-2018, 12:40 PM
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Those that brought up the Auto Mag dont take in consideration that those 357/44 calibers are AM type and not standard 357/44
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10-15-2018, 12:59 PM
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Oh jeez.
Well, I'd (sincerely) love to see you get a chance to handle and shoot a Coonan. I'd hope that you would enjoy it and not dismiss it going forward. It's a fantastic pistol that is one of my favorite to shoot. I think you might enjoy it as well.
Genuinely sorry that I offended you, it was not my intention.
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10-15-2018, 01:36 PM
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Not offended, just not interested in arguing. I'm just into practical guns...meaning strictly for carry and self-defense. That's why I convinced my father that the Coonan wasn't a worthwhile investment for him. I've got my own opinion, perhaps not often shared by others, that guns like the AutoMag, Desert Eagle, Wildey and yes, the Coonan...are novelty guns more suited for use in film, for fun at the range and for collections. Perhaps the one gun I find the most ridiculous is the Prismatic Dueller.
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10-15-2018, 02:37 PM
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I ran the numbers and 3.7% of the total of the handguns I own are strictly for carry/defense. The rest are for the pure joy of owning, shooting, collecting, etc. I suppose I can see why we part ways directly at the idea of a Coonan. (and apparently the other 96.3% of the handguns I own)
It doesn't explain why a .38 Super is good choice strictly for carry/defense, over myriad other choices or specifically a Coonan, but regardless of how we label it (discussion or nasty argument), we'll not agree on that either.
If we scroll all the way to post #1 in the thread, I really got the idea that the OP was discussing "cool" (his words) and marketable guns that aren't offered and could be or should be.
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10-15-2018, 02:50 PM
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IN A RIFLE
The original Ruger 44 mag semi auto ( deer stalkers???) were quite popular.
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10-15-2018, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 29aholic
Those that brought up the Auto Mag dont take in consideration that those 357/44 calibers are AM type and not standard 357/44
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I, too was under the impression that the AutoMag fired a proprietary round, not a std .44 Magnum.
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10-15-2018, 04:43 PM
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I have a few. S&W model 52, of course, but I also have an original ‘A’ model Coonan in 357 and a Wildey in 45 Wildey Mag plus another barrel/receiver for 45 Win Mag.
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10-15-2018, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens
If we scroll all the way to post #1 in the thread, I really got the idea that the OP was discussing "cool" (his words) and marketable guns that aren't offered and could be or should be.
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So far, from what I've witnessed myself (YMMV) magnum cartridges are not particularly well suited to semi-auto HANDguns. IMHO there is a practical upper limit to what will cycle reliably in a HANDgun sized platform. I consider guns like the Desert Eagle to be impractically large (try wearing one on your hip for any extended period) and from what I've observed in videos, and from a buddy's DE...they have enough issues that I wouldn't trust one to defend myself against a dangerous critter, or a motivated bad guy. The AutoMags if you care to spend some time on Youtube seem to jam on every, or every other round (the vintage ones at least). Again, JMHO but there is a practical upper limit to what will cycle reliably in a HANDgun sized weapon...and I'd guesstimate that cartridges like .357 Sig. .38 Super, and 10mm are about the most powerful we can get without having to supersize the platform and without having continual issues with reliability.
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Last edited by 500SNW; 10-15-2018 at 04:48 PM.
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10-15-2018, 05:00 PM
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.32 acp, aka 7.65 Browning.
Works in your CZ, Star, Walther, Colt, KeTec, etc. autoloader.
Works in your .32 H&R or .327 Federal Revolver.
The SEMI-RIM!
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10-15-2018, 05:05 PM
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I hear you. Of all the guns we've discussed, the Coonan definitely gets the closest, and it is nothing whatsoever like a Desert Eagle in the hands, worn in a holster or running live fire. It isn't cartoonishly large and gangly, the grip dimensions (front strap to back, MSH) is longer, but the whole thing is basically the size of a Government model. And if one were to opt for the Coonan Compact, the gun would be even smaller.
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10-15-2018, 05:15 PM
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I'd like to see someone run those Coonans through chronograph testing. I'd mainly like to see how the ballistics compare to a 9mm +P or .357 Sig out of the same length barrel. Using the same weight bullets of course!!
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10-15-2018, 05:27 PM
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It can be done, it has been done and continues to be done. Now onto Time:
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10-15-2018, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 500SNW
I'd like to see someone run those Coonans through chronograph testing. I'd mainly like to see how the ballistics compare to a 9mm +P or .357 Sig out of the same length barrel. Using the same weight bullets of course!!
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I've pushed jacketed 158's at a pretty impressive pace through my chrono, but I haven't run 125's and 130's all that hard.
With the 5-inch barreled Coonan, I've run multiple loads that give me a 10-shot average over 1,400 fps with a 158 grain. I believe that is nearly what a 357 Sig runs with it's top 125 grain loads, albeit from a barrel shorter than 5-inches.
There are certainly folks who have done the same with 125's and reported the numbers.
Using the accessory 10-pound recoil spring for .38 Special, I run a load that sends 125 and 130's at 1,050 fps from the Coonan and it's a lot of fun. I made this up specifically for steel plates as my club won't allow .357 Magnum on their steel.
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