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Old 07-11-2019, 11:29 PM
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Back story - This is a close relative who's looking for a job as the law firm she's working for is shutting down due to owners retiring - two retired the other is in the process of retiring.

How likely is it for a person who worked a law firm, as a "paralegal" for 20+ years, yet has GED, no other legal degree/certificates and has a criminal record with at least three DWI arrests, maybe a domestic violence arrest both 20 years ago (not sure about convictions) not being able to pass a drug test, getting another, equivalent job/pay - maybe even getting a job at the fed courthouse?

I'm guessing not likely.
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:59 PM
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Without any specific legal experience, but having helped folks in various circumstances find work over the years, my take on this would be:

The only chance here are personal connections, knowing people who know people and whose help and recommendations can bypass the somewhat unimpressive paper trail. Just based on the background alone the way you describe it, I see little hope.
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Old 07-12-2019, 01:04 AM
HOUSTON RICK HOUSTON RICK is offline
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People over 50 will have a hard time finding a job in law without connections. Connections are a senior firm partner or important firm client. No one else matters. It is this way right of college at the top firms. People over 60 are considered already dead by our millennial legal HR colleagues. It is not uncommon for recruiters or potential employers to "ghost" you. A well known Top Partner in a Wall Street was asked why he pays a 60 year old lawyer with 40 years of Wall Street experience less than a third of what a new hire out of school is paid. The answer: "Because he has no choice but to take it and like it". Age now clearly trumps experience and ability unless you work for yourself, it may be different for a medical doctor and some engineers. It is great to have 20+ years of experience just make darn sure that you are still under 40 years old. Never mind the criminal record. A young Ted Bundy could get a job 20 times easier than a 50 year old. (Ted Bundy could not sit for the bar exam in most states, but that is not my point) If she is extraordinarily physically attractive this may add a few years. Government legal jobs pay less than what private firms pay to the kids who sharpen their pencils. Contract work or a very small low paying firm may be the best bet or with 20 years experience and expertise in some type of law, go to law school and start your own firm - not likely to be hired with a law degree either. It is different for everyone, but at some point you realize, the only one who will hire you - is you. I know many small successful law practices started by necessity from those cast off by big firms. Have your debts paid off by 45! I am generalizing. If your experience is better, Congratulations! Most commonly, people with marketable specialization stay employed longer. For me it is Multi State taxation. Tell her that I said good luck, and expect it to take a long time with lots of rejection!

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Old 07-12-2019, 08:25 AM
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Can't speak for the big cities. Here in rural America, a good legal secretary/paralegal gets snapped up right away. My paralegal worked for a guy that had an office a couple of doors down street from me. When he died unexpectedly, she helped close down his office then we hired her. The criminal record would be the biggest issue for me. Absolutely no to someone with theft or bad check charges. If it was booze and long in the past I might make an exception.
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:44 AM
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I'm thinking the local public defender. Good paralegal/secretary.investigator help is always in demand. Have the retiring lawyers write glowing letters of recommendation and be available to answer ant questions a prospective employer might have. If she is as good as you say, her bosses will be able to place her based on their recommendations. I would have no problem hiring her provided I got glowing recommendations/etc from her former bosses. Firm believer in redemption, I am.
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Old 07-12-2019, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ματθιας View Post
How likely is it for a person who worked a law firm, as a "paralegal" for 20+ years, yet has GED, no other legal degree/certificates and has a criminal record with at least three DWI arrests, maybe a domestic violence arrest both 20 years ago (not sure about convictions) not being able to pass a drug test, getting another, equivalent job/pay - maybe even getting a job at the fed courthouse?

Feds have min quals - I can't speak as to what they are, but I'd suspect the lack of certification would be an issue since there'll be a lot of qualified competition for any such position. Gary is right that a local (state!) PD office is a good place to look. There's almost no chance they would pay as well as what a private firm paralegal has been making after a long career.
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Old 07-12-2019, 12:44 PM
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Previous record, can't pass a drug test(!), and no paralegal certificate? Sorry Mathias, she'd have a better chance playing the lottery.

One possibility is applying at one of the "rights" groups, they usually don't look too deep for talent, and glowing letters of recommendation would help a lot.
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:33 PM
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I m not a lawyer, but I’d suggest correcting the “can’t pass a drug test” thing before seeking employment.
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:45 PM
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
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Federal agencies are more and more turning to those with troubled pasts, trying to lead by example. My former agency has hired at least two previously convicted felons, one who had been through the system in our judicial district, in non LEO public contact jobs. The drug use would be a deal breaker, but otherwise, the hiring agency might assist with and even pay for needed certifications. We’d also probably pay first month rent and deposit to help with any relocation. It’s a whole new world out there . . .
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:10 PM
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My last employer did random drug tests. You'd come back from a break and a facility security guy was sitting there waiting on you. Test positive for anything, bye bye.
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:23 PM
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I've told a few stories about this person before, it's my "NarcissiSister". I don't talk to her, (I can only tolerate her for about 4 minutes) but my mom does . After my dad died, I take care of all of my mom's affairs and she gives me the family gossip.

When my mom told me what was going on, the first thing I said was that I hoped she had some money saved (she doesn't) as she was going to have a tough time finding something equivalent.

Do I feel sorry for her? Not really. She had the time and the money to further her education, but she didn't. My mom says she has a certificate, but I'm not so sure. I haven't seen hanging on her "I-love-me-wall-of-achievements". I've seen the notary certificate, though.

Maybe her bosses can hook her up with another job. She's not going to have the run of the shop, so to speak, or the freedoms she's used to. But I know one thing is for sure, life for her, as she knew it, is over!

As for the drug test if it is screening for pot, it's a no go.

Here's a funny story It's as she told it to a full table at a holiday dinner. Her in-law's son was killed years ago and the trail that dragged on, was finally wrapped up last year and she gave a victim's testimony. (Please, forgive my ignorance of the proper court terms) at the time of sentencing. She wrote some rambling speech and was there representing the victim's mother, in which she tried to show that the victim came from a highly educated family, herself implied(!). I though that was funny!

Then, my mom asked why the victim's mom didn't show up for any of the court hearings. To which my sister replied, "Oh, she's being passive aggressive."(!) I nearly chocked from laughter when she said that! I really hope she didn't say that in front of a courtroom!
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:41 PM
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In my world. Pot is an instant departure ticket. They send security to gather your obviously personal stuff into a box, and you go straight to the exit. Doesn't matter what the state says, we were controlled by the Feds.
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:38 PM
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Sounds like they've got all the qualifications to be a politician !!
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Old 07-12-2019, 06:30 PM
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Dirty drug test (read pot) will make you uninsurable for workers comp purposes. In Louisiana as well as other states if you are injured on the job and you teat positive for weed or metabolite of weed, NO BENEFITS WHATSOEVER. Let's say for example you go to Colorado and smoke a fat boy. Two weeks later you get in a work accident and , say loose your arm. The routine drug test turns up trace weed metabolite in your urine from the fat boy in Colorado. NO COMP indemnity payments, no medical payments, no nothing!!! Doesn't matter that the metabolite had nothing to do with the accident, it was there ergo you are screwed.
Same thing with alcohol-any trace in a post accident test and you are out. Tough luck that weed stays in your system a lot longer than alcohol.......
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Old 07-12-2019, 06:34 PM
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BTW, to everybody who posted, big thanks for taking the time to read and post! And even those who read it, too! Thanks!
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Old 07-12-2019, 06:39 PM
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Freedom of choice, not freedom from consequences . . .

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Dirty drug test (read pot) will make you uninsurable for workers comp purposes. In Louisiana as well as other states if you are injured on the job and you teat positive for weed or metabolite of weed, NO BENEFITS WHATSOEVER. Let's say for example you go to Colorado and smoke a fat boy. Two weeks later you get in a work accident and , say loose your arm. The routine drug test turns up trace weed metabolite in your urine from the fat boy in Colorado. NO COMP indemnity payments, no medical payments, no nothing!!! Doesn't matter that the metabolite had nothing to do with the accident, it was there ergo you are screwed.
Same thing with alcohol-any trace in a post accident test and you are out. Tough luck that weed stays in your system a lot longer than alcohol.......
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Old 07-12-2019, 08:13 PM
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IMHO any lawyer worth his/her salt considering hiring somebody with that much baggage might want to review the fine print of his/her malpractice insurance policy. Not saying redemption isn't possible, but should the paralegal cause loss to a client as a result of such behavior with the lawyer having been aware of the risk ....
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Old 07-12-2019, 08:19 PM
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IMHO any lawyer worth his/her salt considering hiring somebody with that much baggage might want to review the fine print of his/her malpractice insurance policy. Not saying redemption isn't possible, but should the paralegal cause loss to a client as a result of such behavior with the lawyer having been aware of the risk ....

Civil liability notwithstanding, every lawyer is always ethically responsible for her underlings' behavior on cases - which is a much bigger consideration than mere civil liability and which is something of which every lawyer is keenly aware. But Ματθιας has said "Good night and thank you," so we're just gilding the lily now.
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Old 06-13-2020, 07:26 PM
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If shes a REALLY good paralegal she has a chance with a private firm via a super recommendation. As a govt employee, weed is a straight ticket to unemployment.

I do empathize with the O.P. on not maintaing a civil relationship with one's sister, unfortunately. My sis and i never got along as we should have, but wow. When our father passed, the claws really came out in her. I know i should offer an olive branch, but i am really just fine without the additional stress in my life. Sad. Good luck to the O.P.
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Old 06-13-2020, 07:57 PM
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
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I'm gonna guess this situation has resolved itself by now . . .

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If shes a REALLY good paralegal she has a chance with a private firm via a super recommendation. As a govt employee, weed is a straight ticket to unemployment.

I do empathize with the O.P. on not maintaing a civil relationship with one's sister, unfortunately. My sis and i never got along as we should have, but wow. When our father passed, the claws really came out in her. I know i should offer an olive branch, but i am really just fine without the additional stress in my life. Sad. Good luck to the O.P.
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Old 06-13-2020, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ματθιας View Post
Back story - This is a close relative who's looking for a job as the law firm she's working for is shutting down due to owners retiring - two retired the other is in the process of retiring.

How likely is it for a person who worked a law firm, as a "paralegal" for 20+ years, yet has GED, no other legal degree/certificates and has a criminal record with at least three DWI arrests, maybe a domestic violence arrest both 20 years ago (not sure about convictions) not being able to pass a drug test, getting another, equivalent job/pay - maybe even getting a job at the fed courthouse?

I'm guessing not likely.
Her lack of credentials is a problem only with relatively large, structured employers like governmental agencies and large corporations or large law firms. These are also the employers most likely to zap her for her criminal record or current recreational drug use.

Her experience would be a real attraction for small firms and solo practices where there is no structured employment system such as is found in large entities and governmental employers. She should focus on small and solo firms that do the sort of cases she’s done in the past.

Assuming no current alcohol problem and with some support from the old employers, she’s likely to find work pretty easily.

Most states impose a penalty of some sort in worker’s compensation cases when the injury is associated with the intoxicant. The most common penalty is a reduction of lost wage benefits.

Whatever penalty work comp imposes, it’s not an issue for the employer since it’s still a work comp injury: the employer is immune from being sued civilly by the employee for the injury. Doesn’t hurt the employer’s work comp premiums either.

Nothing not to like in employing her.
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Old 06-13-2020, 09:01 PM
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I'm gonna guess this situation has resolved itself by now . . .
Yeah, in the 11 months since the original question was posted I'm thinking she's either got a job or gave up trying. I guess she could still be looking, but I'd be surprised.
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Old 06-13-2020, 09:31 PM
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Sounds like they've got all the qualifications to be a politician !!
Definitely Mayoral Material.
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Old 06-13-2020, 09:43 PM
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I know no one else cares, but, I HATE year old posts being brought back to life by people who do NOT pay attention!!!

I would guess the lady got a new job somewhere along the line and your advice at this time is not needed!! Geezz
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