My garage door got opened last night and thieves stole 11 of my handguns from my locked cabinet. They found the key or knew where it was.

Am very upset, especially over losing my dad's K-38 service revolver.

All 5 of my 1911A1's, my M&P's a CZ, my Springfield Armory XD's

Had to have been done while I was either sleeping or watching a movie and not hearing them.

No sign of forced entry on the garage door....officer seems to think that they were using a universal remote and see what might open.

I am sure that the perp is someone known to me.

Thanks for listening everyone.......

Randy

Who has seen you open your safe? I'd check them out 1st.

That sucks to hear. Especially about your dads service pistol.


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What's the chances of them finding the key instead of forcing the lock if they had never been there before? Why would they even think the key was nearby? They are there to get in and out with the goods as fast as possible.
I would bet you know the crook or know who told the crooks where the key was.

Seems like that's often the case. Could be a friend or family member or maybe a friend of a friend. Somebody you know may talk too much.

That's no help, I know. Sorry for your loss and aggravation.

Sorry for your loss and situation.


For your garage doors, to improve security I installed Chamberlain "MyQ" it connects your doors to your phone via an app. It can message you anytime the door opens or closes. You can close the door from anyplace. You can also have times that the door will shut in case you forget. I'm sure it does more too.

It does not work with every opener but most made in the last twenty years. Mine are 20+ year old Genie openers.

I also have a video camera in the garage. The door to the house has an alarm zone but not the garage.

I am sorry to read this. About 7 years ago my home was burglarized. The knot of anger in my stomach at being violated has diminished over time but has never gone away.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

This advice given to me many years ago; caught the thief!!

Only tell a couple people whom are active inside different social groups other than yourself. Tell everyone to keep the crime and details quiet, listen for any info.

The thief will soon talk if he hasn't heard anything about his crime.....then a friend will tell a friend and soon someone has identified the thief........

I'm sorry Randy......Good Luck!

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triggers dog-pile egomaniacs

I did distribute the serial number/model number roster to the local pawn shops and gun shops....they ALL know me. I doubt if anything will surface however.

Randy

We were hit around ten years ago when on vacation. Thieves ended up getting 4 guns. We were lucky in that the 1911 and my FIL shotgun were recovered and return. The other two are still in the wind. right after that, we installed an alarm and I have thought since them about including the garage door on the system. Maybe it is time.

It is some one who knows you, if you have kids it is some of their friends. It will not be a total stranger, 25% chance a stranger. Jeff

I have a burning hatred of thieves, and always felt like they never can be punished enough. Some form of medieval punishment should be applied
for justice to be served...

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OGCA Member.

Sorry to hear that Randy, hope they get the *******s.

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Sure you did

That is terrible. Hope you can recover all of them but particularly your father's K38.

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

Needless to say, guns belong in safes. As I recently moved to a home in NC without a basement, I keep my tools in the garage also. I'm careful not to leave any tools that an intruder can use to further his crime. My large crowbars are in the attic.

You can at least be thankful nobody got physically hurt
Bummer they got your Dad’s gun

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Buy American
Vote Responsibly

Sorry for what you are going through. It's frustrating and enraging and heartbreaking all at the same time.

I have two safes in my house - one for my guns and one for household valuables. I keep the emergency key for my gun safe in the household safe, and the emergency key for the household safe in my gun safe.

I don't know if this is a perfect system, but I think the odds of both safes becoming unusable at the same time are just as low or lower than someone breaking in while we are gone and finding at least one of the keys.

Randy, Sorry to hear about this. Especially with a theft of anything sentimental. Other than losing my mind....I’m not sure how I would handle the situation. memtb

I hate a thief. I lost a beautiful 22 that I had since I was 10 to one

Sorry I can't put the video up from Pulp Fiction, it's easy to find. I might get another vacation for the wordage.

What now? I'm going to get me hard pipe hittin'........... to go to work on the homes here with a pair of pliers and a blow torch, get medieval on your...

I hope they take their sweet time too.

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LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE

I’m sure one or more of these guns will show up maybe sooner than later. Hopefully It will lead to the thieves.
My neighbor had a gun stolen In the locked case after leaving the door to house unlocked while he was working. He did not know it was stolen until the police called him because someone tried to shoot a cop with it. It was a 1911 and apparently the guy did not know how to use it because it did not fire. Presumably the safety was on.
A burglary had occurred four houses away of a similar nature shortly before this. But none of the neighbors knew because the victim didn’t tell them and neither did the police. Nor did my neighbor who lost the gun let other neighbors know.
I didn’t even know about it till 15 years later while I was discussing guns with this neighbor who I really ever saw.


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Sorry for your loss. I'd be devastated.

Seems like the newer WiFi garage doors would be easier to open than the older type. My Genie is 15 years old.

I have a camera on the main garage door and my side garage door.

I know two individuals that were victims of burglaries of their homes, while they were not there. The first guy (close to 20 years ago) had his gun cabinet destroyed by his own tools in the basement, and got all of his guns except one. A nice 3 screw 357 Blackhawk was under a pile of dirty clothes on the floor (not loaded)

Turns out it was his 15 year old daughter's boyfriend. We think boyfriend may have been in the home when he returned from the range or a hunting trip, saw some guns, and asked the right questions of the girl, to know when to do it.

The second guy had a much better safe and only lost jewelry and cash, but they worked his safe over good trying to get it open. His wife lost some sentimental pieces of her family's heirloom rings, bracelets and necklaces. He lost some power tools.

Guess what? Some of the jewelry and tools showed up at a pawn shop, and there was video and a drivers license copy,.........of his wife's nephew!

Both times, the thief was known to the victim and had intimate knowledge of the family's loot, schedules, and storage locations.

Both were young men in their late teens and trusted by the victims. (the boyfriend? maybe not trusted so much)

Both caught, but the guns were not pawned, most likely sold to their friends, maybe friends parents who didn't have a clue where they came from. Both bought alarm systems immediately after the break ins.

That's sad news, not just for the significant loss, but especially for the feeling of being violated.

Might be time to wire tie the carriage release on the GDO track if there is still a rope on it. You tube videos show a quick silent way to access a garage using the rope.


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As some have said here, the burglar was probably known to the family. Don't trust anyone, particularly teenaged friends of your own children.There have been many threads here and in other forums dealing with safes. Safes are expensive but worth it. I'm no safe expert but I would recommend a thick-walled safe, one not easily attacked with an angle grinder. My safe is in the garage and I've constructed a false front for it from a flat screen TV carton. Viewed from the street, it looks like an old repurposed kitchen cabinet, the kind of thing you would expect to find in a garage. Under no circumstances is the safe opened when the overhead garage door is open. We have gardeners, home improvement contractors, delivery people etc. coming into the neighborhood. A casual glance into the open garage does not reveal anything worth a felony to obtain.

I never had a safe until a few years ago, we live in a nice, almost zero crime neighborhood and have a great alarm system but I had a few nightmares that my guns got stolen so I got a Redhead safe from BassPro. It's made by the same company that makes Brownings and has the S&G dial combination lock which is a little tricky at first to open even when you have the combination. I've opened it so many times now I'm pretty fast but someone with the combination would probably struggle their first time. I like the dial combination over digital buttons and most locksmiths will tell you it's MUCH more reliable long term.

I keep the cutting head for my oxy-acetylene welding system in the gun safe. No sense leaving opening tools around. Any keys for the gun safe are kept in different areas, i.e. garage gun safe key is kept in kitchen cabinet over refrigerator, never in the same room with locked box.

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Bill

A burglary as you suffer is not in my opinion a simple "property crime" Is is a social crime and should be punished as severely as RAPE. It takes a long time to begin to trust again when you don't know whether your neighbor or trusted "friend" is at the heart of it.

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"Don't Give Up the Ship"

Randy, Sorry for your loss, from your description, it was someone that was familiar with what you had.....It might be worth your time to check out any Flea markets/ Swap meets this weekend to see if any of your guns show up for sale.... Also look @ local for sale ads......Make sure the serial numbers get entered NCIC...

Often, the subject(s) who do this will stash the Guns/property in nearby bushes/ vegetation and come back for it at a later time... Check for this... Foot prints/ Tire tracks....

Check with neighbors to see if they noticed anyone coming or going or if they have surveillance cameras in use.

The best way to prevent this is thru layers of security, a protective Dog, Locked doors, Cameras that record and notify you, Canary, Blink etc.

Record description and serials and keep locked separate.

Ouch I hope they are recovered in good shape.

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Front sight and squeeze

The theft should be reported to the police and entered in the NCIC computer. There's no telling just where these guns might show up. and the NCIC is a national database.

I know, many people don't want to involve the police but odds are, they will recover some of your guns before you do. You can't make the assumption that the guns will remain in the area.

Pretty damn bold thieves to do that while you slept, but it does sound like someone with some inside knowledge. Assuming the key was well-hidden and that the lock is not an easy one to pick, it sounds ultra-suspicious. I hope you are well-insured even though it will not help with your special family heirloom piece.

That said, there are lessons here for us to pay attention to. This is not the first large gun theft from a garage... and gun cabinets, while kid safe and meeting safe storage laws, are not in the same class as decent gun safes (i.e., a UL-listed Residential Security Containers).

But I know of the attraction of garage storage... concrete floors (no weight concerns) and no serious humidity or potential flooding issues associated with basement placement. I am struggling with that dilemma myself for our retirement place.

Unfortunately, there are no perfect answers.

Dad has a safe, but not a gun safe. It is a real safe. From a bank.

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Common sense isn't so common.

thieves deserve a gruesome punishment

I've always thought it odd that real crimes like this are virtually ignored by law enforcement; meanwhile the focus is put on catching violators of laws that shouldn't exist.

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Common sense isn't so common.

Sorry for you being robbed. I am with the crowd that thinks it was some kind of inside deal.

If I was going to lock up all my tools capable of breaking open a safe I would need a reinforced conex box. I have at least a dozen grinders, cutting torch setups and multiple heads, 5 or 6 sledge hammers and at least 5 bid pry bars, a couple porta powers etc. But, hiding your tools isn't really going to do much good if they really want in.

Even a safe with 1/4" thick AR plate walls wouldn't take 30 minutes to chop a big hole in the side with a portable grinder, some .045 6" disks and a couple batteries.

Now, if that steel had steer horns on the inside tying it to a couple inches of steel reinforced concrete it would take considerably more time to finish the job. If I suspected that, I would chop open the front right at the door seam and cut the bars that lock the door. The safe with something besides steel is what will slow a thief down.

If I wanted a secure safe. I would pour a small room with 8" steel reinforce concrete. The doorway would be formed with 3/8" steel that had nelson studs so that when the poor was made they would be cast into the concrete. Them make a heavy steel door and have the lock bars hollow with another bar inside that would spin free inside the outer.


If it was a dead nuts serious safe with serious loot, I always thought the thing to do would be wear a SCBA and wheel in a bottle of liquid Nitrogen, hose the door down real good, drop it down to a minus 300f then let it have it with a 20# sledge.

To me most safes are just another piece of steel. Until it gets real thick it is easy to cut up if you have the tools and know how.

Even a $5000 safe will only keep out the casual thief and buy some time for discovery. UL's Residential Security Container (RSC) certification: 8M10 means it only have to stand up to a 5 minute attack.

Pretty depressing (and seemingly hopeless) when you lay it all out like that. But I know you are speaking from experience. Safes are just another piece of steel... nothing magic.

I find it ironic what some of us go through to buy these expensive, super-massive safes when they can be defeated so easily with the right tools.

Not odd at all if you think of it from a revenue stream perspective and not a protect and serve perspective.

True enough. There is more money in confiscating the property and assets of those accused of being engaged in unapproved occupations than catching thieves.

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Common sense isn't so common.

Just wondering. Is your garage attached to the house?
Can the vault be seen from the street if the big door's open?
How close to the vault did you stash the key?
Shut off switch for the over head door available?
Any off spring or relatives living with you who have friends over?
How about the next door neighbors? Do you trust them? Did they know you had a gun vault in the garage?
I'm betting it's someone who knows you or about you. Not a random theft.

Ah, most small time thieves probably wouldn't spend the money for a decent grinder, some slitter disks. Plus, I can probably cut twice as long and more steel than most people with thin disks. To much pressure, side loading, etc shortens their life fast. A 6" wheel will cut twice what a 4 1/2" will. But are more expensive. I get them in boxes of 50.
Unless you got some real money the chances that a real pro visits you are small. 90+% of the time it is some small time knuckle head. Then, your safe has a good chance of deterring them from getting your stuff. Hey, I keep mine in a safe, many times better than a closet.

Most good metal guys didn't get that way by being lazy. Learning good metal skills isn't that easy. Most thieves are not into hard work. Like my stepdad used to say, "You can leave a pick laying on the job site, a pick only says work to a thief" If I was going into a life of crime one of the last things I would steal or anyone with a real brain is guns. Serial numbers, the feds etc. Maybe a store house full, but not a residence. Jewelry stores would be much easier. Always thought a big construction job near a mall would be a good criminal opportunity. Get in a bid front end loader (a Cat key, works in most Cats, ditto John Deere etc). First explode a couple small bombs in dumpsters on the far side of town. Fire up the front end loader, blow through the doors and hit the jewellery section of the mall. Might nail an ATM or two if they were handy. Dump the load into the back of a pickup and haul freight. Now that is how I would do a "smash and grab" Melt the rings and sit on the rocks for 8 years.

Actually, if I really wanted to enter a life of crime I would buy some nice suits and a bunch of campaign posters.

As a side business I build above ground FEMA concrete safe rooms in houses and office buildings here in Tornado country. The walls and roof are 6 to 8 inch 4000 PSI concrete with #4 rebar at 16 inches on center up and down and side to side. We put in sleeves for a couple lights and an HVAC vent and the door is a 3’ x 6’-8” heavy duty steel door with a high security latch set and three high security Yale deadbolts and the door alone cost about $1,700 and is extremely heavy but some people will pay more for an actual vault steel door if they have a lot of guns or valuables. The typical safe room is 8’ x 8’ wide by 8 feet tall and costs about $7,500 turnkey materials and labor. I have built a few that are as big as 20’ x 15’ but there are probably a few guys on the forum that still couldn't fit all there guns inside.

The NCIC is a national database if, and only if, the LLEA enters the data into the system. Not all do.

my garage was broken into twice . finally got a motion sensor light & a good dead bolt lock . so far after 3 years all is good. but i NEVER stored my guns in my garage . when my 115 lb akita died a few years ago , i decided a gun safe was in order . i have a 7 gauge hvy duty safe . the door is the thickness of 2 quarters & 1 dime on edge .... pretty substantial !
do not buy cheap big box store safes . a good safe will run you some $ but well worth it !

Sorry, but 7 gauge is only 3/16". It wouldn't take me 30 minutes to have it wide open. In fact I am sure I could cut 3/16' at about a ft per minute, with a good grinder and 6" x.045 disks, so on the side of yours a 4'x2' hole would easily take less than 20 minutes even taking 30 seconds now and then to put in a new 6" disk. Doubt it would take twice as long as a cheap Stack On safe. Or I could cut a 6" square then a 16" square around the lock in less than 10 minutes. Removing that would allow me to cut out the bars and just swing the door open and not expose anything inside to the sparks.

If I was really in a hurry I would use 9" disks and one of my big grinders, a leather jacket and my Jackson welding helmet with just a clear lens. Going to be a few sparks. Stand back.

Carry in a Plasma cutter, pop out 2 of your circuit breakers and pop in a couple prewired for the Plasma and have at. Quieter, but, bulkier and heavier and plugging it in might take 10 minutes. A grinder is a "plug and play"

The type of steel don't matter much either, stainless, armor plate all cut well with plasmas or grinders. Unless you go to something like carbide. Now carbide is hard to grind, but then its really easy to shatter. Won't take any kind of side loading either.

It will keep out Joe causal thief though. But it isn't really that much more than a heavy duty cardboard box to a real steel guy.

Steel reinforce concrete is a real pain to get through. Gotta make some serious noise. Unless of course you go to the super cool method and shatter it.

Check the criteria for a UL listing. It does not include a grinder attack. Drills, and 18" pry bars. Those are just "hobby" tools. Plus, on the drill part my mag drill and a carbide bit will go through some serious metal fast.

You are 100% true but these "safes" are just to make it less palatable to deal with. Any safe can be opened it just matters how much time it takes to get in.

A grinder running in my garage/basement will attract the neighbors. Flame cut or plasma, risk burning the house down or the safe contents. A metal cutting circular saw, loud but fast? My understanding is that pry attacks are the most common. Perhaps a hole saw above the lock and just reaching and open the lock. Just don't hit the relocker...

They cut into bank vaults, your home safe doesn't stand much chance if they are determined. Now if you have layered security, video cameras, alarms, secured rooms, multiple safes, and good insurance. All just makes things more difficult to steal. Most burglaries are done in a few minutes in and out, gone.

Really with the knowledge you just need a battery drill and a small bit.

I personally like several smaller safes rather than one giant one, bolted down and in places that make it hard to pry open. It is just more work to get everything.

I spent 10 years of my LE career assigned to residential burglaries. Saw many hundreds of residential B&E's.

In the instance you described, almost certain that someone known to you shared some information and some quick bucks are now being made by the involved lowlifes.

While successfully entering gun safes, aka 'residential security cabinets' using various power tools and/or torches is a popular topic - it actually is seen on a comparatively very small scale.

I've seen many attempts that could hardly even be called that - hammer strikes to the dial and/or keypad, some door-edge prying, even had one where the suspect found an unsecured 12 ga. and some 00 Buck and shot the middle of the safe door - twice. Made a 3/4" dent.

Most of the time it's idiots needing property for fast cash for drugs. They have zero mechanical skills and even less intelligence. And all the using tools and such is work, which they're allergic to and increases their chance of apprehension.

Was your scene processed by forensics by the responding LE agency or their designees? Clean metal cabinets/safes are great surfaces for latents.

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

I don't know if your investigating agency told you but there's a good chance of the thieves or their friends giving it another try in the future. Dopers and perps talk to others just like themselves and the fact that they scored a decent amount only ups the chances of it happening again.

Sometimes they take the safe. A few years back we had a spree of rural burglaries. Guns, coins, jewelry and electronics were the main goal. One case involved the theft of a whole gun safe. The perps knew the owner was away and that he had a nice collection of old Winchesters in a safe in his basement. Apparently the thieves used a truck to yank the cellar Bilco door off its setting then dragged the gun safe out of the basement using chains. It was done in broad daylight. As far as I know, nothing was recovered.

John

Before we go too far down the road blaming law enforcement for "ignoring" the crime, it's fair to note how inexpensive an effective security system that makes a lot of noise would have been in preventing these valuables from being stolen in the first place.

My wife can't even get to my secured guns without me knowing about it, while someone waltzed into the garage here, unlocked the cabinet with a key, and left with the goods while someone was home.

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Live long and prosper