There's data from the CDC on the state-by-state percentage of hospital beds occupied by COVID-19 patients. This was updated yesterday. https://www.cdc.gov/nhsn/covid19/rep...nt-impact.html

Absalom, I hear what you are saying, but I would like to offer a slightly different view on this. Perhaps the reason that the infection rates haven't spiked in the areas that have experienced "peaceful" protests is because the protesters returned home to mommy and daddy's basement? Please remember, there is a lot of contention that the protesters were hired and imported for the "peaceful protests"! Perhaps the sponsors are gaining a dividend, since protest acquired infections are being spread within states that began relaxing COVID19 restrictions!

In all honesty, what is making these paid protesters any different than a suicide bomber? Suicide bombers are disposable, one use then thrown away, but paid protesters can be viewed like the Energizer Bunny ... they keep on running!

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Judge control not gun control!

Went to podiatrist Tuesday. business as usual no mask by any office personel or doctors. A couple patients had them on. Kroger is back to business as usual and so is Meijer & Aldi is taking a quarter for their carts again. Employees wear masks, often around their neck, optional for customers. Same way with Lowes and Home Depot. Menards requires shoppers wear masks. Private property - their store, their rules.

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God spelled backwards is dog.

Correct. So it is up to us to save ourselves and each other by taking simple, proven measures to limit the spread of this illness.

Really? And what "rights" are you referring to? The "right" to infect other people with a virus? And do you think we need to get rid of all regulations regarding food inspections, fire prevention inspections, traffic safety, workplace safety, etc.?

Okay, let's say this is correct. The recommended measures of washing your hands, wearing a mask, and maintaining a distance from each other will still help to slow the rate of infection. This avoids overwhelming hospitals, and gives the medical profession time to develop treatments and vaccinations.

This is true if you are wearing an N95 to filter our viral particles. But the facial coverings being recommended for most people in public settings are intended to keep us from infecting others by limiting the distance your exhaled droplets can travel. And sloppy mask-wearing doesn't invalidate the advice to wear them.

Shutdowns were instituted as an emergency measure to make people stay away from each other, and to give the government time to develop a strategy to cope with this virus. Also, supplies of N95 masks were scarce back in March. Once medical researchers determined that simply covering your nose and mouth would help prevent the spread of this virus, and N95s weren't necessary for most people, the shutdowns became less important.

I think I have the right to get drunk and drive my car and endanger you; if you fear me you should stay home.

We have about 331,000,000 people in this country. If "everyone" is going to come into contact with this virus, as you claim, and between 1.25% and 3% will succumb to it, that translates to between 4,137,500 and 9,930,000 Americans dead. Is that acceptable to you? If washing your hands, wearing a mask, and maintaining social distancing can save many of those lives (and the evidence indicates it will) then why not do it?

I will never understand why some people just can't seem to see the big picture here. Refusing to take simple steps to slow or stop the spread of this illness is like raising a big middle finger to society...

Quite frankly, I think these "paid protesters" are nothing but a figment of the imagination of certain people who have blog pages to fill and a job of scaring folks.

They belong in the same category as those fictional busloads of Antifa terrorists that embarrassed so many patriots in small towns all over the West, who showed up with guns to defend their town against an Antifa incursion that didn't exist.

I witnessed that here in a small town in NE PA. It was internet rumors only.

Nahhh... That'll never catch on.

Something similar happened here. We didn't have the surge because the measures taken stopped it.

On the Web is a talk given a couple of years ago by an epidemiologist about one of the bird flu pandemics that didn't quite get going. He discussed measures that had been taken (not much) and how lucky we had been. On the subject of government reaction he said something along these lines:

"If in the aftermath people accuse you of overreacting, you probably got it right".

I believe him.

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Release the Kraken

I am struck by the comment that it is not the government’s job to protect the health of the people.

Why do we have a Food and Drug Administration? Why do we have an Environmental Protection Agency? Why do we have the Occupational Safety and Health Administration?

But, I agree that in the US the consensus to date is that the government should not be responsible for health care the way most other countries understand it.

Since we spend more per capita on health care for poorer results (lower average life expectancy) than do other first world countries, I think our approach is decidedly inferior. That is, if we want the object of healthcare to be the health of our people. If the object of health care is to generate maximum profit for the businesses involved in providing health care, we’re number one!

(Hey, what a minute! Have we had this conversation before?!)

I wonder the same thing. Especially about the EPA.

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Kenny
Endeavor to persevere.

^^^^I don't. I remember the smog and burning river because of pollution in the 1960s/early 70s. If you saw a deer, it was remarkable.

Reflecting on this, government’s responsibility to protect the people, some more, while I agree that we are each responsible for our own health, it is in the same sense that we are each responsible for our own safety.

Few of us here, I assume, believe that because we are responsible for our own safety we do not need the police or the military to help protect us.

Surely we have not been overtaken by the defunders even here?!

We live in a large, modern society. Much that can kill us is far beyond our control unless we choose the Old Order Amish way. I'm not saying they are wrong, just unlikely to build a large, modern, successful society.

On one level your post makes total sense, but.... the trust of "government" to actually tell people the truth is gone. The trust of the media to accurately report the truth is gone. In the absence of trust, people look at their surroundings and make the best decision they can with what they can see for themselves.

For example, if you look at graphic in the CDC link biku324 posted a few posts back, most of the states are running at 50% hospital capacity and are using only 4% or less of their capacity for COVID 19 patients. That doesn't fit with the "sky is falling" narrative from the media and some Governors.

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Vegan by proxy.

This ^^^^^^

EDIT
I’ll correct myself, it was post 10. Only a few of us read it.
FACTS matter.

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Sure you did

The protesters check both boxes.

So I guess you are going to bring food to my house and bring my Doctor to me for my appointments, ETC.

The point is, people must leave their homes for various reasons, but of course you know that don't you,
being the wise man you are.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

Our hospital has an ICU bed capacity of 100. As of Wednesday they had 6 ICU patients with COVID. This supports the numbers from the CDC posted above.

Our town also set up a massive COVID isolation facility at the fairgrounds to house hundreds of COVID+ patients as hospital overflow. They never had to use it.

We now know that this virus is VERY contagious.
We also know that with a few exceptions it is not very deadly.
We know that the younger you are, the safer you are and less likely to have any symptoms. This makes these people risky for the high risk people to be around.
We know that obesity, hypertension, diabetes, advanced age, and immunosuppression all increase risk significantly.
We know that sequestering elderly infected people in nursing homes is a bad idea.
We know the more testing we do, the higher the infection rate will be.

What we don't know is how effective it is to wear designer masks made of cloth, or if staying six feet apart slows the spread.

I believe we can all be responsible and careful when around others.
I believe that no matter what we do, we will still experience a significant number of mortalities, just like we do with flu epidemics.
I believe if you are high risk, you should continue to stay at home, and wait until the dust settles.
I believe that stores should be able to mandate masks if they so desire. I don't believe the government should unless it's in a government building.
I believe people should be able to enjoy a night out at a restaurant or bar if they so choose, knowing the risk.
I believe we are unnecessarily killing businesses that make our lives better for little benefit to those who have little risk from this virus.

Just how much should the government intervene? That is the million dollar question. As an old fashioned conservative, I always err on the side of trusting the people to do what's right. Most will.

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What could possibly go wrong?

Exactly.

Home delivery. Leave it on the porch. Sanitize the containers before touching them without gloves.

Doesn't seem so difficult to me.

People have been doing it for years.

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Kenny
Endeavor to persevere.

No Shirt, No Shoes, No Mask, No Service. How difficult is that to understand. We all got along just fine with the No Shirt, No Shoes thing...add a mask and people go completely berserk. My wife sells cosmetics, she says a mask messes up make-up which is probably the number one reason women don't like them because without their make up some women won't leave the house. I have a friend that has a deaf daughter, she is a lip reader, masks make her life more difficult, her mother is adamant about not wearing a mask. I get it...
It is very understandable that people trying to make a small business work are possibly loosing their entire life's work and not taking this thing lightly but the facts are only proving themselves out, why take more people out than necessary. Stay home, stay safe or be cautious going out, keep your distance and for C.S. wear a mask. We will see a phase two probably this fall and into winter and another round next year before any kind of immunization is delivered. Then we are going to have to contend with all of the "individuals" in this country who refuse to get immunized for whatever reason. It may come down to the way the school system finally did either get immunized or stay on the farm and homeschool your kids.
I told my son that this thing will kill a million people world wide before it mellows out and I hoped I was wrong. It may end up killing a million people in this country alone at the rate we are going and again I hope I am wrong. You can't fix stupid unless your a welder.

But, for some--that's time to panic!!

My take? All that's happening now--aside from finding people
who've already cleared/recovered, by virtue of exponentially
increased testing--is scads of younger people are contracting
it, and recovering from it.

Presumably, these thousands and thousands of recovered
people will present fallow ground to future Covid exposures--
the coveted Herd Immunity.

It bleeds weakness AND stupidity from our species.

Florida is a large state that will take you many hours to drive from one end of it to the other. Different areas of Florida have nothing in common with each other with virus infections hospital beds or populations. How are you going to paint the entire state with one brush. And again yes hospital admins have a agenda big time and there are many different state and private owned hospitals across the state.

I've always loved that putting a wink or a smiley face at the end of a condescending comment makes it all right.

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Kenny
Endeavor to persevere.

Destroying our country is totally unacceptable to me and that is the intent of this virus.

Its dividing the people right here in the forum.

You have your opinion and I have mine.

If you're afraid of the virus then stay home. Its as simple as that.

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Kenny
Endeavor to persevere.

Here ya go...

I walk every day, try it, it brightens ones day and makes one happier Every other day we go out to either sit for a meal or bring one home. Other days, gun or food shopping.
Friday it was range time.

Tomorrow is not a guarantee.

I could expound on my bright outlook but that topic is banned.

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Sure you did

A virus with intent. What a novel idea. A micro organism that has a political agenda.

If you mean that the virus was created and released with the intent of destroying American I wonder why they first released it in China then Europe and waited till later to target America and the rest of the world. Simply collateral damage?

People have been screaming they are destroying America since right after 1776. The war of 1812, the civil war, the depressions didn't do it, Neither did WWI, the Spanish flu, WWII. I heard it screamed by both sides during the Vietnam era. Yet here we still are and you believe this virus is going to do it. Have a little faith man!

8,258 new infections and 33 died today in Texas.

On what do you base your "opinion"? Seriously...if you are not a doctor or scientist, you have to trust some outside source for the information that forms the basis for your opinion. Who or what is that? I am comfortable with the fact that my "opinion" mirrors that of trusted medical professionals and the experts in the US Government. You?

What is "simple" is the advice to wash your hands; cover your nose and mouth in public; and keep away from other people. There's nothing hard about that...it costs nothing, or next to nothing, and represents, at worst, a minor inconvenience. Why not do that?

In refusing to wear a mask, you are basically asserting the right to infect other people. It's akin to saying you have a right to drive drunk, and people who are afraid of you need to stay in their homes.

You don't want this virus to destroy our country, but you're okay with millions of preventable deaths? If you are really serious about not letting this virus destroy our country, I would think you would embrace the US Government's recommended strategy to reduce the rate of infection.

I am living my life as usual. Not scared, running or hiding behind a mask. This too shall pass as is doesn't effect 99.98% of the population. As far as the bug reporting........Believe nothing you read and only 1/2 of what you actually see.

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S&W Accumulator

The best way to come to some sort
of agreement in this thread or any
similar to it is for everyone to settle
back and see how things are in one
year.

Until then, we should follow Mike, SC
Hunter who has just written "believe
nothing you read."

So let's all believe nothing read here
or anywhere. Unless, of course, a dispute
breaks out over the superiority of the
revolver over any auto pistol, past, present
or future.

__________________
Ubi Est Mea

I'm sorry, but believing nothing you read is just nonsensical. Vary your sources, stay with the varied medical journals here and abroad, varied news here and abroad (not opinion, news, as in 'events'; consider the track records of the news organizations you see/hear). Those who will not read are far worse off than those who cannot read - literate non-readers have deliberately chosen ignorance. TV/cable/radio/online news leaves one with no real depth of knowledge whatsoever.

Those who believe only what they see are limited to learning only from personal experiences. One's observations may be only part of the story; even the Dos Equis man hasn't seen it all.

Literacy is God's gift to all humanity; what we see and hear on news and online should only be temporary and supplemental to make us aware of breaking events until more in-depth, written information (both replicable and verifiable), is available from multiple sources.

That will be easy.

__________________
Kenny
Endeavor to persevere.

I suggest you read the US Constitution

Article 1 Section 8 deals with the governments "JOB"

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

13: To provide and maintain a Navy;

14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;—And

18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.


Please note in 1 where it says

provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States

I would certainly think that the welfare of the country would include looking after our health.



No where does it mention that the governments job is to protect your rights.

Portions of the constitution enumerates the governments job and the Bill of Rights states what the government has no right to do. It does not say who will enforce those. Jefferson and others felt that was our job as citizens.
Please note the provide for the general welfare part

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe..... quote by someone.

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Have Fun/Stay Safe

Not reading is very easy with a forum app if you get my drift. It helps keep your BP down and there’s no need to respond to the same point posted 1,000 times over.

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Sure you did

This article was published online just last night. I read some months ago that HVAC systems were thought to be a factor in spreading this virus...this seems to support that, although the WHO disputes this, and the CDC didn't comment.

It's important to note that this article addresses only the subject of how this coronavirus can travel through the air. It doesn't contradict the basic advice to wash your hands frequently; cover your mouth and nose to protect others from your exhaled droplets; and stay six feet away from people.

Real-world experience changes the knowledge base in many fields, and I'm sure we'll learn more about COVID-19 as time goes on. The more effectively we can limit the spread of this thing, that will give scientists and medical authorities more time to develop effective treatments and perhaps a vaccine.

200 scientists warn we’re ignoring important evidence about how coronavirus spreads through air - oregonlive.com

And how are things going in your Bosnian Paradise?

I guess it all depends on what you believe about what you read and I have no doubt that where you live might influence your decision.

Other than one or two patience no one in my doctors office wears a mask.

If you're at risk definitely wear a mask. It will protect you from those who chose not to.

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Kenny
Endeavor to persevere.

Most news today would fertilize my garden......DON'T be manipulated by those who want power............Remember 99.98% will not be affected.......Anyway it'll all be over in the fall.

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S&W Accumulator

You found a cure?

__________________
- Post No Bills -

????????????

Say what?

????????????

__________________
Ubi Est Mea

What happens in November?

__________________
S&W Accumulator

I was also promised by most of the hoaxers here on the forum that it would go away when summer came,

You can tell me it will be over in the fall, but I am not going to hold my breath.


Are some using it for a political agenda? Of course both sides use EVERYTHING for their agendas. The virus itself has no agenda, It don't care which party you support. It will kill either and never think about it because of course like many people it has no intelligence.

It will NOT go away after November 3rd

I live in NM, just work in Bosnia. BiH has 54 deaths per million, 1,514 cases per million. The US is 400 deaths per million, 8,129 cases per million; Bosnians shut down, tested, and traced.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 11,454,444 Cases and 534,877 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer for comparison - there are more up-to-date sites if you want to bother, but the data isn't much different.

That drive to work everyday gotta be tough.

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Vegan by proxy.

And the Bosnian reporting is just as accurate and forthcoming, as
Chinese reporting, no doubt.

When the bridge is icy particularly!