I didn't grew up here and most of you are a few days older than me, so I'm hoping you can answer my question

I'm not sure when exactly we started outsourcing manufacturing to China, but since a few days now I've been wondering; was there ever a qualitative good product made in China? Or has it always been quick, cheap and mediocre?

Just wondering...

I've had and still have several Made in Mexico products and so far I can't complain. I rather shop there to be honest!

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Jorge

Quality is almost always a management decision. In the 50's and 60's, Japanese items were considered junk by many, but the government there instituted quality control for exported items, and look at them now.

Many of the Chinese items sold here are inexpensive not only because of the cost of their labor, but because we won't pay for the cost of quality items from there; we get what we pay for.

Does Apple still make iPhones in China? I have a Norinco copy of a Walther TT Olympia .22 pistol that is very well made.

That's right, just remember how many firearms were and still are made there. And glass like binocs, scopes, etc.

Japan is hard to beat though...

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Jorge

I worked in the Intelligence Community. I can tell you that in some technologies they have reached parity with us. Especially missile strike precision, hypersonic weaponry, lasers, and encryption.

We moved production to China when trade barriers were lifted with their induction into the G8, and business leaders realized that more profit could be made by using Chinese labor.

The net effect is a pooling of profit at the higher echelons of American business, and the loss of manufacturing in the middle class, thereby reducing its size and purchasing power.

The Chinese make quality products every bit as good as others when it is in their national interest or in the interest of their bottom line.

There is nothing inherent about the Chinese that prevents them from making products that meet or exceed non-Chinese products.

It is very possible that they will be dictating trade terms to the USA in 20 years, quite a role reversal when compared to the 1980s.

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I think it is the consumer that ultimately decides quality of the products they spend their money on. For communists, the Chinese have the supply and demand thing all figured out.The Chinese build to the quality we are willing to pay for. They cheat bigtime though, slave labor, intellectual property rights, trade mark infringements, unfair trade practices ect. Of course the Chinese have built quality products, Ming china for example. Perhaps anyway, I dont know anything about pottery. I am more a stainless steel kinda guy.
While discussing his army, the late Chairman said "quantity has a quality of its own". I would tend to agree, a billion hungry , ideological pure peasants armed with pitchforks and throwing rocks presents a formidable military force.
The Chinese manufactures own the market in cordless tools. I have a Ryobi 1/4 inch impact driver that has no problem spinning lug nuts off the semi.
Yes, the Chinese can build quality products.

It's my experience "Chinese junk" no longer refers to a type of ship. They are plenty smart enough they could build good products but don't for above reasons. Mexican quality doesn't impress me either but is still superior in quality. I miss good American made quality.

Not a historian, nor an economist, and not entirely sure it's relevant to the thread topic, but I suspect that China adopting a quasi-capitalistic approach in the 70s and 80s might've had a role in other countries, including the US, outsourcing their labor and manufacturing to them.

We as a country want cheap more than quality. China supplies us with what we want to buy.


There have been quality products produced in China through the years from silk to swords to Norinco firearms.

Along with people all through our government and business structures not perceiving the movement to off-shore manufacturing, production of medications, etc. is a major national security issue. All of us who are older and on a collection of meds are going to be in deep do-do if there is anything that causes trade to slow or end.

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NHI, 10-8.

Dr. W Edwards Deming an American statistician and educator whose advocacy of quality control methods in industrial production aided Japan's economic recovery after WW2. Years ago an engineer friend of mine explained to me Dr. Deming taught the Japanese they had to produce the very best products to become a world leader.

Their machine tools are excellent quality, especially the high end stuff.
The thing that concerns me is that they bought up the big machine tools from the US and other countries, and many of them were one of a kind--so, we don't have the capability any longer to build some items.

Chine has always been the world's leading producer of Chinamen! ( or more PC, Chinese Persons). Joe Stalin had a philosophy of "Quantity, has a quality all its own!" And the Chinese have so many people, no-one can compete with them in Labor, or military ground action!

However, in skilled labor they have just started closing on the rest of the world. In Military ground action, one Marine Regiment showed them what they needed to know in 1950, but did they learn?

In the past China's government (Emperor or Polit Bureau) would not spend cash and threw people at their problems. They have learned that lesson well, and still have the people to attack any problem but with more skill and infrastructure!

Go to any food court and you will find a Chinese restaurant of some sort! Look at the pride and skill of these people! They, as a culture, may yet conquer the world economically!

Ivan

As someone else noted, "Made in Japan" used to mean "cheap and poorly made" and some of it was because that is what we wanted. Same is true of China now. But they can made good gear. My buddy has a well-used Hilti heavy-duty hammer drill that I thought was old enough to be "pre-China" but I was wrong. Built like a tank. My gf got a high-end Zeiss fluorescing microscope fror her lab a few years ago (~$35k) and although she chose Zeiss (German-made) optics for some of the special filters, she opted for their second line- made in China - for others and she's found them perfectly good.

I prefer to buy US-made when I can, though, and often scour second-hand stores for old hand tools, such as wrenches or clamps. My local building supply store carries Bosch drill bits, which are made in China, but I won't buy them when I can get US-made ones from Triumph or Norseman elsewhere for the same price!

I must echo the comments on the TT Olympia target pistol but change the firearm to the Norinco 1911, The quality of the steel in this pistol (when you could get them) was such that quite a number of 1911 competitive shooters used the frame and slide as the basis for excellent "one-offs". I have had an unmodified 1911 for the last 20 plus years and it is still an excellent pistol, even though it has not been modified. The other area that China has excelled in but is not usually realized, is in the area of DNA and RNA analyses and syntheses. For example, within two weeks of the Cov-2 virus, a Chinese group sequenced the complete genome and published it for people to work on world wide. This information became the basis of almost all of the current batch of vaccines under development. There are many other scientific areas that they have excelled in (not stealing info from the West but by working it themselves). Dave_n

Yes , China is making cheap because US consumers want cheap.
I hope there’s not too much cheap in the $1,000 iPhone in my shirt pocket.
But I wouldn’t bet on it!

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

I read an article recently from one of the "great and the good" economists who admitted that the globalization we have now is a mistake. Paraphrasing:

"We wanted globalization, but what we got was hyper-globalization, and that hasn't worked for American industry".

Ya think?

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Release the Kraken

Krugman. He has been wrong about a lot of things. Smug as hell, too.

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China excels at 2 things. Intellectual theft, and turning their country into a giant Superfund site. Make that 3 things, crapping up the air the rest of the world breathes.

LOL!!! Has he ever been right about anything? I don't think so.

++++++++++

I'm old enough to remember when everything coming out of South Korea was Junk.

And yes, I'm even old enough to remember when everything coming out of Japan was Junk.

And Lord knows that I know about Chinese junk. We have a Harbor Freight not too far away just like everyone else.

But time has taught me that China will improve its quality in time just like the other countries I mentioned did. It has already happened in many areas... with many more to come. Just give it time.

Companies go to China to get the absolute lowest manufacturing costs. So junky items are what they buy.

I've seen made to spec stuff that's as good as anywhere else.

Ever wonder where Louis Vuitton gets their bags from?

Hint: It's not France.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

I think they make good chopsticks.

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Don

If an American company outsources to China (to get the cheap labor), and they have control over the manufacturing process, then the china products are OK. (Shame on them because they have screwed American workers))

If a China company copies intellectual property and sells knock offs, the quality is ****. (shame on the person that unknowingly buys the chinacrap)

China has the capabilities, but they don't have the moral integrity to respect their workers of the environment.

I speak from personal experience...

They sure know how to make people. As to missiles and rockets, didn't Clinton give this information to them so they were able to catch up with us?

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That's gonna leave a mark.

In 1977 I bought a Huffy 10-speed bike for $99.99 so I could ride to Little League practice..... The same bike today is $79.99 at retail.... 20% reduction in price after 43 years... Cheap stuff is like a drug... These are choices we make..... Macroeconomic equilibrium principles will always be in effect.

They were able to effect technology transfer through espionage, and expand on it through the use of joint technical Engineering studies between universities.

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A hundred bucks to his foundation bought a lot of American technology.

I think the main problem lies in the US companies chasing the lowest cost and highest profit that the consumer will tolerate. Easy to blame China but all the products they build are built to the specifications and tolerances that the US companies contract for.

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John. SWCA #1586

One of my old customers got him a Chinese bride.

I don't think she's gonna last much longer than a Chinese can opener.

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Dum vivo cano

Pharmaceuticals. Everybody that's dependent on pharmaceuticals, had better hope that industry comes back to the USA or to some other friendly nation. China could cut us off and...well it wouldn't be good.

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Thread Killer.

I don't think much of the world is happy with China lately.

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Dum vivo cano

The transfer of technology and production, especially to asian countries, was greatly accelerated in the 1960's & 70's. The so-called American patriots who went to those countries and showed them how to do it sold this country right down the river. And they did it solely for profit. Unfortunately, those in charge agreed to these transfers by signing off on trade deals and accepting huge payoffs. I hope they all burn in the fires of ____. Americans probably could have prevented this drastic change by not purchasing the "junk" that was being imported. But we can't get 1,000 people to stand together for the benefit of our own citizens. Sure as heck aren't going to get several million to unite. As previously mentioned here by others, Americans got used to cheap products and continue purchasing them at an alarming rate. All the while screwing over their fellow citizens. As a present day, very wealthy business man once said, (I'm paraphrasing here because I don't remember his exact words, but went something like this) "Americans are the most stupid consumers on earth but I love 'em because they made me rich."

My brother and I have taken to scrounging in consignment stores and Goodwill stores for US-made kitchen utensils.

What is often not realized is that most of what are known in the "trade" as "APIs" (active pharmaceutical ingredients) are effectively made in two places. India and China. As mentioned in the quote above, people had better understand what has happened and what could occur. At the moment, the one area that is still in predominately US/EU hands is the area of novel biologicals, but now, a very significant number of what are known as "biosimilars" are being sourced in India and China as these are molecules that have now moved out of patent. The FDA inspectors that deal with these suppliers to the US market have been constrained by reductions in funding for the last few years, as politicians of both "stripes" are constrained by highly successful lobbying by all pharma companies to keep "source prices low" but sale prices high. Dave_n

I lived in Hong Kong for just over 3 years. I have traveled extensively in China and other SEAsian countries. You will find everything from A to Z, meaning new and very modern manufacturing and production facilities to dumps with sand/dirt floors. Same for quality. My former company was gung ho on China starting early nineties and went all in. What I started to see starting around 2012-2013 was an effort to begin re-shoring both sourcing and production with the mentality of made in China for China market. I am referring to industrial components. As to consumer goods, we are reaping the harvest of our consumer driven economy. We want more and more, bigger, faster, latest and greatest of everything and we want it dirt cheap. That said, I think China will have a major labor shortage in 1-2 generations because of the one child policy. Hopefully good for us and other countries that went full throttle in China. Just my 2 cents.

We should be making everything we use in this country to keep people productive and believing there's opportunity, even if it's only factory work.

Who?

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Sure you did

Shhhhhhhhhhhh........

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Sure you did

Home Depot opened some stored in China. A reported interviewed a few Chinese locals about it. When asked if he shopped at Home Depot one Chinese fellow said, "No. I never shop there. All they sell is Chinese junk."

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Freedom isn't free.

Things made in China....hmmm let's see.

Well they did make a Chinese Virus that seems to last (damn thing won't go away )..........but I can't think of anything else made there that lasts very long.

Don

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Laus Deo! <><

I recall the cheep Jap junk, but little stuff from china. Then, Japan took to quality. The only thing I can think of made in china that has outlasted expectations is their virus. We priced ourselves out of a lot of markets due to union contracts and the low quality sometimes associated with them. If and when the manufacturing returns to America, prices will be ridiculously high, and the quality will be low. I won't buy anything made in china, but will buy German before American, just due to quality.

I think that hits the nail on the head. We the people have more power than we think, we just have to unite and work together.

It's a convenient lifestyle... we really don't have supply issues. We just expect to go to the store (any store) and get food and products we need/want.

The majority is not prepared when one of those supply lines breaks... hence the most recent panic buying.

So I can see where they come from.... we need to feed the masses, plus we need to make enough product for everyone to get it cheap. Unfortunately the quality will suffer but since we want it now and cheap we are willing to sacrifice.

I agree, we need to bring major manufacturing back, incl pharma. But we all know it won't happen.... too many pockets are being filled by leaving it as is

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Jorge

There was a time when I sold Sharp cash registers. Initially, they were made in Japan, then production went to China, and Korea after that. I could see no difference in quality.

General Tao's Chicken ain't bad.

[QUOTE=peter-paul;140851159]

We moved production to China when trade barriers were lifted with their induction into the G8, and business leaders realized that more profit could be made by using Chinese labor.

The net effect is a pooling of profit at the higher echelons of American business, and the loss of manufacturing in the middle class, thereby reducing its size and purchasing power.


This part I agree, corporate America benefits, and we have created a monster.

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Len

As other have said China can make good items. I have been in several factories in China that made good products. It is a different environment and the workers seem to have a different attitude toward work.

A few stories;
One large factory I was in, located in central China. More or less typical place with a large dormitory and lots of square footage of floor space. The had a big banner in English that said "Work hard today or tommorw you will be working harder looking for a new job"

A company wanted an item made, they went to different manufacturers to get quotes. They were all around said $2.00 each and would make a decent item. The company didnt like that they said we only want to spend $.50 each. Most bidders dropped out saying that it was unrealistic at that price. However, two were hungry and wanted the work desperately. The buyer played them against each other and got them even lower per unit, about $.35 each. What the factory guys can't figure out is why someone would want to buy the biggest piece of junk. Now they try to make them, even with the cheapest materials and every short cut that can be had, its not profitable. In short order, the manufacturer goes out of business. In this story whos the biggest loser? The person that buys that product here in the USA at full price. I was told this story and told it happened many times. I did fudge the actual numbers as I dont recall them if they were true when I was told the story.

Several years ago I attended a presentation by a manufacturer of Christmas lights. He stated that Chinese labor had gotten too expensive, so now they were moving production to places like Thailand, Malaysia, and Vietnam.

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Or something like that . . .

A friend is a quality control engineer who has spent most of the last decade working in China to improve high tech production plants.
His viewpoint is China is excellent at pricepoint manufacturing and bad at innovation and creativity (what you get with an authoritarian regime), which is why China is constantly hacking and ripping off our Intellectual Property at every possible opportunity, as well as everyone else's.
China is our most challenging economic threat, and as they continue stealing land in the South Pacific, building up their nuke sub fleet, and buying corrupt governments in Africa, they will sooner rather than later become a primary military adversary as well.

China has different grades.of quality evidenced by Harbour Freights Bauer brand of tools. They are copies of tools mfg. in the UK but are made by Lutool, a Chinese company. Most are just not willing to pay the price unless they require quality tools or products to work witb.

Look up "Chinagate." Hefty bags full of cash in exchange for technology from Loral Space and Hughes Electronics - that helped them deliver a nuke to us. That particular admin also lifted restrictions on technology. We were sold out.

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Thread Killer.

My limited memory, Drywall and Dog Treats.

That's some pretty basic stuff but let China make it for you and look what happens.

Should we really trust them with our drugs?

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Dum vivo cano