I've been seeing a number of comments about the anniversary of the first uses of nuclear weapons in warfare at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan. There is an interesting side note to the history of these events.

During the planning stages for the closing days of the war with Japan in 1945 the US military developed detailed plans for invasion of the Japanese home islands. One of the necessary considerations was US casualties, and to deal with the expected 800,000-plus US deaths and wounded an order was placed for 850,000 Purple Heart medals.

The invasion proved unnecessary following deployment of nuclear weapons at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, with the Japanese capitulating and accepting unconditional surrender.

The Purple Heart medals were delivered and many remain in military supplies to this day, despite requirements of Korea, Vietnam, and the other armed conflicts that have taken place over the past 75 years since the order was placed.

The Purple Heart medal awarded to me in Vietnam 50 years ago is very probably one of those intended for the 800,000-plus American servicemen expected to be killed or wounded in the final campaign to defeat the Japanese Empire in 1945.

To the best of my knowledge the US military has not had to order more Purple Heart medals since 1945.

I don't know about that. If the medal is in the old school coffin type box, it's probably, likely, WW2 vintage. The one's in the modern plastic type box, they might be new made - they look different - the purple color is darker.

I have two WW2 cased WW2 Purple Hearts in my collection. One is early WW2 USN/USMC issue cardboard box and the other is the standard Purple Heart in the black box with the golden felt interior. The newer boxes have a light grey felt interior.

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Thread Killer.

Mine came in a presentation box, spring-loaded hinge at the top, black leather exterior with gold leaf imprint and decorative border, gold-color felt interior with satin-lined lid.

My father's Purple Heart medal is identical, however the presentation box disappeared over the years since he received it in 1944. I keep his decorations with his burial flag, still properly folded with the fired cartridges from the rifle salute rendered at grave side, August 10 will be the 40th anniversary of his death.

I don't have a recent PH in my collection, but I have seen my buddy's. It's been a while, but his looked like this:





The box is different and the purple around GW is dark, very dark. I've never seen a WW2 era PH that dark.

Here's another variation of the box:


That's why I think there may have been a later contract. I could be wrong.

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Thread Killer.

World War 2 Era purple heart:





World War 2 era USN/USMC PH

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Thread Killer.

I posted this article a few days ago in the earlier Hiroshima thread. It sounds like new Purple Hearts were ordered, but WW II versions that have been reconditioned are intermingled with new ones and as of 2010 were still awarded, hard to distinguish except for experts.

Today's Purple Hearts were first made for the invasion of Japan - Americas Military Entertainment Brand

Very interesting and I’m very glad that not all of them have been used.

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“Look life in its iron face”

I had a uncle on one of the ships that was waiting to invade Japan.I know his comrades and him were very glad we used the bomb.

My wife’s grandad was being trained for it at the end. They sent his unit to Korea immediately after. He is fond of saying the bomb quite likely saved his life.

I had a ex-boss that was at Pearl Harbor - he hated the japs more than anything on the planet. He always believed that we should not have stopped with two bombs - he wanted the country totally gone.

According to the article;
Are Purple Hearts from 1945 still being awarded? By Jeff Schogol of Stars and Stripes "There could be a small number of WWII-era medal sets still in the hands of military service customers and it is possible that recent and current issues of medals were made from stock produced in previous time periods".

Then there's this, "the DLA has ordered about 34,000 Purple Hearts since 1976, of which 21,000 were ordered in 2008, ..."

Are Purple Hearts from 1945 still being awarded? - The Rumor Doctor - Stripes

What I want to know is why were they refurbished when they had been sitting in a warehouse, and what was done during refurb? New Boxes?

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Thread Killer.

VN War. Mine came in the plastic box with a round plastic cover over the medal itself.

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Paul
Salome, AZ

Even today, the discussion rages as to whether dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was necessary and justifiable. In 1945, there was no doubt. Most Americans were extremely happy about it, especially those troops who would have needed to carry out the invasion. Richard Rhodes' book "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" discusses the decision to use it on Japan in great detail. Most of the top American military commanders (except for MacArthur) were opposed to an invasion of the Japanese home islands for fear of the expected enormous number of casualties, both Japanese and American. Many of the atomic scientists were opposed to using the bomb. President Truman did not formally approve use of the bomb, he just didn't object to it.

Most buildings, homes, and structures in Japan at the time were made of or used a lot of wood and that's why the Napalm and fire bombs were so effective, killing many many more than the A bombs. We controlled the seas and the skies and our manufacturing was cranking out munitions, bombers, and fighter planes at an incredible rate and we had bases on nearby islands so flying deep into Japan was not a problem. We could have probably torched the whole country into suing for peace without ever landing any ground troops but the Japs also didn't surrender easily. The sight of what the A-bombs did convinced the government to give up or risk total annihalation which they did and that probably saved millions of Japanese lives.

I talked to a collector friend and vet and asked how to tell a WW2 PH from a modern contract. Generally, with the WW2 PH the brooches are sewn and the inlay around the GW head is enamel. With the modern ones, he says, Vietnam and newer, the brooch is crimped and the inlay is plastic - which explains why the purple is much darker and not translucent.

He also said that most refurbs were just the box - WW2 PH in a new box.

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Thread Killer.

My FIL was on one of those ships headed to Japan. Only time I ever saw him cry was when he told us that story.

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Isaiah 41:10

May the Lord bless all who have them and all who will earn them.

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No baby we aint

This one is in genuine fake leather and a gold color inside. This is from mid '67 in Viet Nam. The Lt. Colonel walked into the tent and said "Here" and that was it.

Legally, I couldn't wear it, as it was never recorded in my personnel files. When I returned from Viet Nam, I also was discharged and it took all night. We were asked to check to make sure everything was correct on our DD214, including medals and awards. The Purple Heart was not listed. I had a choice, get my DD214 corrected and not be able to be discharged until the next day, or longer, or keep my mouth shut. Kept my mouth shut. Time went by and more and more it didn't seemed to matter but now it's not possible to have it corrected.

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The bomb preserved the Japanese culture and paved the way for the success that they enjoy to this day.
With the Russian armies poised to invade from the north, at the end of hostilities not only would Japan suffered a million plus casualties by the time it was all over, but the country would have been divided into a North and South Japan as well possibly to this day. We all know how well that worked out for Korea. After the half a million American casualties and the war dragging on into 1946 we may not have been nearly as inclined to pave the way to prosperity like we had.

Exactly like my own.

My commander did not deliver mine to me. I don't remember many awards ceremonies in Vietnam, except for the occasional formation to watch officers pin stuff on each others' chests. Mine arrived in the mail at the address recorded as my "home of record" along with copies of the orders and the certificate of award (suitable for framing). I was aware of the award, but never saw the actual medal until I returned home.

Second time I was evacuated to Japan. Bunch of soldiers and marines in a big hospital ward, group of brass came through pinning medals on bathrobes and pillow cases while posing for photographs with the troops, then all the medals were put back in a box and carried away.

Lots of awards fell through the cracks, orders never posted to personnel files, whatever. Then there was the fire at the Army Records Center, Fort Benjamin Harrison, and thousands of files went up in smoke (long before computers and digital records). Sometimes the paperwork caught up with the troops, sometimes it never happened.

Long time ago now.

I raised my right hand.
I have been to Hiroshima.
I have been to the Nevada Test Site.
I have been to Sandia.
I have memories and stories, but not moral certitude.

The meta narrative is probably true enough, but as this thread attests, digging too deep might indicate caution in broad statements.

A sincere thanks to those who put their lives on the line, then and now. Hopefully the scars weather from pain to not bitterness but to rememberance.

They thought the same thing at Tawara, Saipan, Iwo Jima, Okinawa...

We found out the hard way you can't bombard them into submission.

There is a photo of Patton pinning the Silver Star on a black soldier. Vietnam was simply a ticket punch for a lot of officers, as Anthony Herbert put it, "There's nothing like a chest full of of ribbons and the old war record when the promotion board meets." In many units as soon as an officer got his Bronze Star with V he was rotated to rear echelon duties.
In 1970 an Assistant Division Commander of the 1st Cav received the Silver Star for a fictitious event.
In his "Jewel Voice Broadcast" announcing that Japan was accepting the Potsdam Declaration, Hirohito acknowledged that the continued use of the Bomb could lead to the annihilation of the Japanese as a people and a nation.

But few Japanese who heard it understood it. The dialect of Japanese spoken in the Imperial Court was very different from the Japanese spoken by the common people.

"What’s interesting in this is that Osnos’s comment does apply to Akihito’s father’s “Jewel Voice Broadcast” of 8/15/45 in which Hirohito read out the “Imperial Rescript on the Termination of the War”. That earlier speech (seemingly the only other case in which a Japanese emperor addressed the nation) was felt by many to be hard to follow, partly because of the poor audio quality, but also because it was spoken in a variety of classical Japanese. It’s said that many people listening at the time couldn’t make out whether Japan was surrendering or preparing to fight on."

Yes, he spoke in such an archaic Court Japanese-probably like Middle English-that they had to provide a translation.
I read an account from the 5th Special Forces Group, the clerk who typed the awards recommendations, etc. was getting short, his replacement didn't arrived, that paperwork went into the dumpster, later they started a "board for correction of records" so those who were shortchanged could be made whole.

A little bit of perspective on this post: Anthony Herbert is a retired Lieutenant Colonel, US Army, after serving as an enlisted man (to the rank of Master Sergeant) during the Korean War. He survived a bayonet through the lung, and for several years was touted as America's most decorated soldier. He was also one of the earliest members of US Army Special Forces, as well as a Ranger officer. Lt. Col. Herbert commanded a battalion of the 173rd Airborne Brigade in Vietnam. Later he published his autobiography "Soldier", which is an excellent read for the military enthusiast.

Lt. Col. Herbert was an outspoken critic of the US Army's policies of "ticket punching" for career officers building their careers, and his comments resulted in his military career being shut down. Last I heard, Herbert was a practicing psychologist in the Colorado Department of Corrections following his military retirement.

Very interesting man and career. I met the gentleman very briefly and wish I had the opportunity to know him better.

Bockscar dropped "Fat Man" on Nagasaki 75 years ago today.

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LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE

From my limited knowing of he U.S. government, many years ago they probably went to a scrap dealer. If they cannot use it today they usually scrap it, without much thought of the possible future needs. Besides if it is later needed they can order more.

WOW; did I ever enjoy reading this book from
LTC Herbert "Soldier". It maybe dated material but the message was excellent!

"The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there." - L.P. Hartley

It is difficult for those of us who are living now to pass judgment on our ancestors using the standards of present day sensibilities.

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Only a cold warrior

I have seen Bockscar many times at the Air Force Museum in Ohio.

"Bockscar": The Aircraft that Ended WWII > National Museum of the United States Air Force™ > Display

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Sceva
OGCA SWCA NRA

The day the Japs surrendered my Daddy who was in the Army Air Force was at Kearns Field, Utah to begin his training as a ball turret gunner on a B-17. When the war was over he was sent to Dutch Harbor, Alaska. Then he started island hopping the Aleutian Islands ending up on the island of Shemya. He told me there was a runway. And a stationary radar station that he said was watching for any & everything coming out of Russia. He was there until July, 1947. If Truman hadn't of given the order to drop the bombs there is a very good chance Daddy would have never came home & I wouldn't be here today.

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I'm 67. I don't do timeouts.

I’m paraphrasing, but I remember reading after the first bomb the government told the people they had nothing to worry about. There is no way the Americans have 2 of those. The people stood firm.

After the second bomb the government told the people they had nothing to worry about. There is no way the Americans have three of those. The people weren’t willing to stand firm anymore.

My Father in Law had trained as a landing craft driver and was on a ship headed to the eventual landing on Japan when the bombs went off. The ship turned around and he got to spend some time in Hawaii, wow what luck!!
Steve W

After VE Day, my father was told that he would be transferred to the Pacific in preparation for the invasion of Japan. He told my mother that he didn't know if he would survive the war, but he knew that a lot of young men in his command would not. This was a very serious time.

One of the best books on the war I have read. Herbert told it like it was. I saw him on the Dick Cavet show twice. He was a a__ in the grass office who truly lead his men.

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Endeavor to persevere. <><

My Dad was on his way to Shemaya to invade and was sunk on the troop ship Calvin Coolidge. The wreck is now a popular dive site. National Geographic did an article on the sinking.

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Endeavor to persevere. <><

Thank you for your service. I am one who might not ne here today if they had not dropped the bombs on Japan. My father graduated from Parris Island only a few months prior to the bombs being dropped and there is a good chance he would have been sent there during the invasion. I was born 13 years later. I will never know for sure but happy the war ended and he made it home safely to be a great man, dad and husband and of course Marine.

Mark Felton again

MY FIL was in a draft exempt job. He saw the draft writing on the wall, and joined the Army Air Corps for flight training, around 1943. He was retrained as new types came out, with more basic training to fill his spare time.
He finished the war still Stateside when the bombs dropped, but as a fully trained B29 flight engineer waiting for overseas orders. His five brothers, all overseas, kiddingly called him a "Boy Scout". He never complained.

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It's what I do, not what I am.

I read a little story a long time ago that is also an interesting side note to
this thread. There was a travelling salesman who happened to be in
Hiroshima when the bomb dropped. Somehow he survived, got out of
town and headed home as fast as he could. He got home just in time.
His home was in Nagasaki.

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In Omnia Paratus

I was stationed at North Island NAS when I got my last overseas orders. My wife and little girl about six months old were with me in San Diego at the time. I got a seven day leave to bring them back to Oklahoma. We came back by railway and that involved two things that I will never forget. One was the A Bomb was dropped and I had too many points to go overseas so my orders were canceled.
The other showed how good the servicemen were. We were having a problem getting milk for Carol and every time that the train stopped in a town some would get off of the train and go milk hunting. After they knew she was aboard she wasn't short on milk or guys wanting to hold her. A lot of guys had kids at home that they were missing.
I had been supposed to go overseas about a year earlier but the ship never made it back to to the U.S. That is why I ended up at North Island for about a year. I was very fortunate because if the bomb had not of been dropped I would have likely been on a carrier for the invasion of Japan.
It is hard to believe but the six months old Carol will be seventy six Nov. 22nd.

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Mighty 90's,Trying 4 a 100!

Graydon, that train trip story how it came about and what happened, is wonderful. Talk about the winds of war and how they blew people's lives around. There are millions of those out there, most of which, sadly, will probably never get told. I hope you passed that nugget on to your children and grandchildren.
Thanks for sharing.

That train story reminded me of two men that I knew from our church. One, Dave, had a Purple Heart that he earned when his troop ship was hit by a Kamikaze while en route to duty in the Pacific. He was out of action before setting foot on a battlefield. The other, Ray, was not allowed to enlist, since he was a blacksmith for the Santa Fe railroad. He spent the war in the railroad yards here in Albuquerque, working long shifts keeping the trains running.

Dave used to rub it in that Ray hadn't "served", and Ray took it pretty hard. After one particularly vicious session around Veteran's Day one year I took Ray aside. I told him that while I didn't want to diminish Dave's service, he, Ray, had actually done more for the war effort by keeping the trains running. I told him that we wouldn't have won the war without the continual movement of men and materials.

I conducted both men's funerals. Only one had a casket draped by a flag and military honors, but both served.

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Only a cold warrior

One thing I forgot about the train ride from the coast was that we had a SP for the ride to El Paso. It was awfully hot on the train and the SP let every one get rid of the top part of their uniforms and run around in their undershirt or tee shirt.
When we got to El Paso a MP took over and he made everyone get back in uniform. There was a bunch of uncomfortable and unhappy servicemen.

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Mighty 90's,Trying 4 a 100!

My Dad was in the 98th Infantry Division, which garrisoned Hawaii and trained for the invasion of Japan. The original plans called for 3 divisions to land in each of 3 separate places, and 3 more, including the 98th, to be held in reserve for a day or two. If any of the first 3 landings bogged down, the reserve troops could be committed to strengthen those.

Failing that, the 3 reserve divisions had their own invasion and objectives scheduled. My Dad went ashore in landing craft, exactly where scheduled, after the cessation of hostilities. While the Division History says they had ammunition, my Dad said they didn't.

I asked him if it was a weird feeling to be coming ashore, knowing that just a short time before, the Japanese would have fought to the death, and he said it certainly was. But, since the Emperor had given the word to stand down, the landing was peaceful and countless lives were spared. He said that although they landed very shortly after the cessation of hostilities, they were met by women holding parasols, and little kids who had already learned how to say "can-dy" and "chewing gum" to the GI's.

Their first mission was to find all military equipment and ordnance and destroy or otherwise neutralize it. They were originally to set up in an abandoned Jap air base, but it was so hideously filthy and full of lice that it was deemed a health hazard. They then attempted to set up tents on the runway -- in about 1+ foot of water, which was the result of a typhoon that had come through there shortly before. I've seen pictures of the attempt to pitch tents, etc. under those conditions, and it looks like a joke..... but it wasn't.

After sleeping in wet, muddy foxholes in the field on countless nights in Hawaii, they finally got issued sleeping bags... right after arriving in Japan. He and I both were extremely glad the bombs were dropped and
that he didn't have to invade, as he likely would have been killed.

As it was, he went on to get his Ph. D. in Clinical Psychology, spent most of his career at the V.A., helping combat veterans, and lived almost to 91.
I couldn't have asked for a finer father.

Fairly recently, I read a newly declassified report on the defenses the Japanese had available to them in case of invasion. We were able to send aircraft over Japan without their being attacked, but it wasn't because they
didn't have any aircraft. Rather, everything with wings and an engine had been kitted out as a Kamikaze, and they had well over 10,000 of them hidden in caves all over the island. Their plan was to do everything in their power to keep us from ever setting foot on their shores... and our Intel did not know the extent of this powerful force of Kamikaze planes until after they started finding them all over the island.

John