So forum seller renegging on a deal

[Racer X]

On another forum.

Offered pistol package for sale. I responded I wanted it. Before I sent the USPS Money Order, the shipping got upped another $50 (for overnight FedEx from private seller). Still decent deal. Sent MO. Then seller decides that he doesn't want to sell. I work with him, and he will still follow through if he can keep the spare stainless upper, and substitute a blued one instead. Getting pretty pissed off at this point. Now I get a text that he won't sell at all, and will be sending my money back, theoretically. I have ALL of it as text messages, as well as his name, address and cell phone number. Why should I believe him at this point?

Just turn over to the Postal Inspector? Mail Fraud is a felony.

I sent him a text. Ship it ALL, including the originally agreed upon stainless upper, or I turn him into the USPS Postal Inspector for mail fraud, as well as his local PD.

[Breakaway500]

Hopefully...you at least get your money back.

[moralem]

Just better hope you get your money back...why take such a strident stance when the other person has the upper hand. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt about changing their mind....people, for good or for bad, are never really sure what they want. If he really was trying to scam you why wouldn’t he just go silent on you.....good luck.

[Racer X]

I was raised to honor your commitments and your word is only as good as your actions. I've sold stuff where I should have charged more, or sold despite the fact that I changed my mind. A Deal is a Deal.

AND, since Mail Fraud is a felony, no more firearms for him.

[yaktamer]

Chances of getting a prosecutor to file charges if he opts to send your money back rather than to ship the gun = 0%.

[Camster]

Relax. You don't have a problem unless the refund doesn't arrive within 10 days.

[Racer X]

I don't want the money, I want what I purchased.

[KalamazooKid]

Hope it works out for you. But I don’t think it’s mail fraud as nothing has touched the postal service at this point. Only a “discussion” of doing so?

[ameridaddy]

Bad feedback on a forum or internet sales site can be a reputation killer.
Do you have that option? If so, you might remind him of that.

[vt_shooter]

My sense is until the seller cashes the money order and doesn't send the item he has not committed mail fraud. Might be better for your own health and blood pressure to just accept the money back, and wait for another deal to come along.

[Rule3]

As posted a Gazillion times. Postal Inspectors will NOT do anything for a private single transaction. The Agents do not spring into action for a private sale.

USPS MO can not be cancelled.

Yes it is a rip off if he doesn't return the money order but good luck convicting him of a felony.

Money Orders | USPS


What We Do – United States Postal Inspection Service

[Donn]

No disrespect, but I think you're digging your heels into sand on this one.

[Onomea]

Unbelievably poor behavior, but in my view get the money back and walk away.

[Warren Sear]

First world problem. Cry a river, build a bridge, get over it.

[ladder13]

I would want no more than my money back. Why accept anything else from the seller?

[robrossk]

It is a bummer but unfortunately not much to do if he refuses to sell. Surely, if seller has any kind of morals he/she will return your funds. If not, file with local police. After you get your money back, and only after, maybe give the seller a bad review on whatever forum. Unfortunately this happens sometimes.

[raljr1]

I agree that this sucks, but get your money back and be done with it.. if he deals in this manner, how can you be sure the condition will be as advertised... then you will have no recourse besides a bad review and no chance to get your money back.

Robert

[03hemi]

Originally Posted by Racer X

On another forum.

Offered pistol package for sale. I responded I wanted it. Before I sent the USPS Money Order, the shipping got upped another $50 (for overnight FedEx from private seller). Still decent deal. Sent MO. Then seller decides that he doesn't want to sell. I work with him, and he will still follow through if he can keep the spare stainless upper, and substitute a blued one instead. Getting pretty pissed off at this point. Now I get a text that he won't sell at all, and will be sending my money back, theoretically. I have ALL of it as text messages, as well as his name, address and cell phone number. Why should I believe him at this point?

Just turn over to the Postal Inspector? Mail Fraud is a felony.

I sent him a text. Ship it ALL, including the originally agreed upon stainless upper, or I turn him into the USPS Postal Inspector for mail fraud, as well as his local PD.

That's not mail fraud, just get over it and move along. Hope you get your money back.

[pawngal]

Just settle down and beg for your money back. At this point and the tone of your conversation you will be lucky to get the money back.

As others have pointed out, no mail fraud is involved.

[keith44spl]

As the old saying goes....

"If a man's word is no good, he's no good."


.

[eb07]

Get your money back and move on. If the seller has this kind of integrity, who knows what is wrong with what you purchased.

[Absalom]

If changing one‘s mind for no good reason were a crime, I know quite a few women who‘d spend most of their time in jail

As long as you get your money back, no fraud, mail or otherwise, has been committed.

[glenwolde]

Originally Posted by Racer X

I don't want the money, I want what I purchased.

If he returns the money there's no fraud. If you want to enforce the contract that's an issue for civil court. Not worth it.

[PatriotX]

Originally Posted by glenwolde

If he returns the money there's no fraud. If you want to enforce the contract that's an issue for civil court. Not worth it.

This.


Any purchase from a seller this shady would be circumspect.

[Onomea]

Originally Posted by keith44spl

As the old saying goes....
"If a man's word is no good, he's no good.".

And it is truly said that your honor is one thing that no one can ever take away from you. Only you can give it up.

[Racer X]

The USPS Money Order was cashed, and it WAS mailed through the USPS. That's why the Postal Inspectors can get involved. I have a friend who is a postal carrier, and says the Postal Inspectors love stuff like this. It seems small to you guys, but they get a real kick out of acting big and tough when they knock on a door.

[JJEH]

Originally Posted by glenwolde

If he returns the money there's no fraud. If you want to enforce the contract that's an issue for civil court. Not worth it.

That depends on how much money he sent.

Originally Posted by Racer X

The USPS Money Order was cashed, and it WAS mailed through the USPS. That's why the Postal Inspectors can get involved. I have a friend who is a postal carrier, and says the Postal Inspectors love stuff like this. It seems small to you guys, but they get a real kick out of acting big and tough when they knock on a door.

Just call him. If you get your money back, good. Make sure to make people aware of his tactics. If you don't get the money back save all communication and talk to your county court. Just find out which court has jurisdiction...

[Minorcan]

Hope you get your money back but I have never heard of the USPS Helping out a private individual. Also, why would you send a MO to a person that already changed the deal on you? Sounds like a bad decision.

[BearBio]

Post as strong a negative review as you can on the forum where you bought it.

Notify ATF (why not?-can't hurt)! Assuming it's going through an FFL, let yours know for future transactions.

[Doug627]

Contact the ATF&E, too. If he has an FFL they may be interested.

[Dave from Pa]

As long as you get your money back chalk it up to experience.Person is only good as their word.I had a WTB ad on the forum for a couple months.Member responded he had the item and quoted a price that was very good.After discussing shipping and determining he was legit sent money.All was well and then he made a 1000 excuses why he couldn`t ship.PO wouldn`t ship it etc.I figured he sold too cheap and only did research after we did the deal.Once he figured it out he didn`t want to sell.Did send my payment back and I`m a little wiser.To be honest I don`t think you have any recourse if he won`t sell as long as you get your money back.

[J. R. WEEMS]

Just my take on this. You entered into a contract to buy, you both have a grace period where as you can, change your minds. He changed his and said, he would return your funds. While you may be PO at this, if you get your money back you are back to square one. A few years ago I said I would take a 4" MDL 57. I was at work and said I would send the funds soon a I got home. In the meantime, someone offered more money so he took the deal. I can tell you, I was more than PO, but there was not a thing I could do about it. And yes, I was MORE than PO, even to this day. sometimes you just have to let it go and mark it up to one of the little things in life that are not really all that important in the scheme of things. To this day I have never owned a 4" blue MDL 57.

[yeti]

It is a weasel thing for the seller to do, but get your $ and walk away. Review the seller as a weasel if you get a chance.

[Ματθιας]

When an extra $50 was added on, BEFORE you sent the money order, that was the time to walk away.

Get your money back and walk away. Life is too short.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by Racer X

The USPS Money Order was cashed, and it WAS mailed through the USPS. That's why the Postal Inspectors can get involved. I have a friend who is a postal carrier, and says the Postal Inspectors love stuff like this. It seems small to you guys, but they get a real kick out of acting big and tough when they knock on a door.

I would love to see that verified. So many people whine about the USPS and then they think they will get involved in a single private transduction of a few hundred dollars or so??


Just fill out the form and one of the 1,200 inspectors will get right on it.!


Report – United States Postal Inspection Service

[Racer X]

I have a pistol shooting coach, who is a Postal Carrier here in Seattle. He knows one of Seattle's inspectors well. He told me they could get it straight to that Ohio inspector office. He would make sure of it.

[Burley]

Who's the liar?

Name a name.

The forum deserves the truth.

[Ματθιας]

Originally Posted by Racer X

I have a pistol shooting coach, who is a Postal Carrier here in Seattle. He knows one of Seattle's inspectors well. He told me they could get it straight to that Ohio inspector office. He would make sure of it.

Multiple members have told you it is not fraud.

You agreed to paying more.
You agreed to a substitution.
Now, you want the original deal - does that include the original price minus $50?
If/when the guy sends back your money, what are you going to do? Have you given him a chance to give you your money back?

What, in your mind, makes this fraud?

[islamoradamark]

Hope you get your money back. The way I was brought up, when you make a deal its my honor and reputation at stake.

[Camster]

Originally Posted by Racer X

I have a pistol shooting coach, who is a Postal Carrier here in Seattle. He knows one of Seattle's inspectors well. He told me they could get it straight to that Ohio inspector office. He would make sure of it.

In the big picture, as long as you get your money back, it's nothing more than a very forgettable mosquito bite. Nothing to dwell on or pout about.

Quote: sent him a text. Ship it ALL, including the originally agreed upon stainless upper, or I turn him into the USPS Postal Inspector for mail fraud, as well as his local PD. Unquote.
Now that's being a hot head...and turning a distant guy who owes you money into an enemy...which is not the smartest thing to do.
If I was the seller, no way would I comply with that threat. I'd simply refund your money and be done with you.

[tlawler]

Let it go and move on. As long as you get your money back, it’s all good. Life’s too short to sweat the small stuff. A man’s word and a handshake should be his bond, but not so much anymore in the internet world. I only deal face to face on firearms transactions except for here in this forum. It is the only place where I have achieved complete satisfaction with the deals I have made. We are all gentlemen here and conduct ourselves accordingly.

[Jon651]

Originally Posted by Racer X

On another forum.

Offered pistol package for sale. I responded I wanted it. Before I sent the USPS Money Order, the shipping got upped another $50 (for overnight FedEx from private seller). Still decent deal. Sent MO. Then seller decides that he doesn't want to sell. I work with him, and he will still follow through if he can keep the spare stainless upper, and substitute a blued one instead. Getting pretty pissed off at this point. Now I get a text that he won't sell at all, and will be sending my money back, theoretically. I have ALL of it as text messages, as well as his name, address and cell phone number. Why should I believe him at this point?

Just turn over to the Postal Inspector? Mail Fraud is a felony.

I sent him a text. Ship it ALL, including the originally agreed upon stainless upper, or I turn him into the USPS Postal Inspector for mail fraud, as well as his local PD.

I agree with others here whose advice is to lower the temperature a bit, just request you money back, and if you get it simply wash your hands of him and consider yourself lucky that you didn't get taken. If he vanishes with your funds, then file a report with the cops and see what they can do for you. I don't see where the USPS would get involved - he didn't do anything via the mail, just text messages. There's no law against sending someone a money order regardless of the reason. Unfortunately his end of the deal was via texts and supposedly FedEx - sounds like he knew what he was doing.

Good luck.

[lhump1961]

If the seller had simply changed his mind I may have been a little PO'ed but could have accepted it. But to change the terms of the deal a couple of times and ultimately back out is screwy. Bad situation. I hope you get your money back and suggest you just walk away...better for your blood pressure.

As a seller a person must be sure what they do. I sold a gun a while back that I greatly regret. I regretted the decision shortly after I agreed to terms and before I received payment. I went through with the deal with heavy heart and it bothers me to this day. I made the decision too quickly and should have "slept" on it for a time before committing. Having this experience I think I could forgive a seller for simply changing their mind as long as they were honest about it.

[Muss Muggins]

Couple things:

A: Titling this thread “forum member” is misleading and disingenuous.

2: Instead of backing out at the first sign of trouble, you continued to be complicit in the deal...

C: After 30 years in close association with the federal criminal Court system, I saw exactly three postal cases, which were investigated and brought to the bar by the FBI. Next lowest was the IRS, with five. Drugs and guns, hundreds . . .

Good luck, and hopefully you’ll get your money back. Otherwise you have a civil suit in the purchaser’s county . . .

[4506517]

Originally Posted by Racer X

The USPS Money Order was cashed, and it WAS mailed through the USPS. That's why the Postal Inspectors can get involved. I have a friend who is a postal carrier, and says the Postal Inspectors love stuff like this. It seems small to you guys, but they get a real kick out of acting big and tough when they knock on a door.

No, no they dont. Your carrier has no idea, hes putting you on.

They arent going to get involved.

MAYBE contact his local police, but they dont have the resources to run it to ground.

[LoboGunLeather]

Helpful hint: In some cities rioters are firebombing police stations with people inside and barricading the doors to prevent escape, and the local politicians are calling this "peaceful protest".

You will be doing very well to get your money back and putting this bozo in your rearview mirror. Maybe, just maybe, you'll get a call back from the US Postal Inspection Service within a year, probably send you a couple of dozen forms to fill out and mail back to another address. Before you start down that path I suggest that you lay in a good supply of anti-acid medication. For sure, no US Attorney is going to miss an important meeting, much less a round of golf, to pursue your "mail fraud" complaint.

[Onomea]

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

... Titling this thread “forum member” is misleading and disingenuous....

I agree with Muss on this point in particular.

Anyone looking at the thread title assumes the forum member in question is a member of our forum here. While it draws thread viewers, it also impugns the reputation of our forum. Most of us here — I would hope all — take our word very seriously. I am sure this was not the intent, and to avoid misunderstanding suggest that the thread title be edited.

E.g., On a Different Forum, Seller Backs Away from Agreement. Or something like that.

[llowry61]

Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather

Helpful hint: In some cities rioters are firebombing police stations with people inside and barricading the doors to prevent escape, and the local politicians are calling this "peaceful protest".

You will be doing very well to get your money back and putting this bozo in your rearview mirror. Maybe, just maybe, you'll get a call back from the US Postal Inspection Service within a year, probably send you a couple of dozen forms to fill out and mail back to another address. Before you start down that path I suggest that you lay in a good supply of anti-acid medication. For sure, no US Attorney is going to miss an important meeting, much less a round of golf, to pursue your "mail fraud" complaint.

Hey now, don't start picking on the innocent golfers !

All kidding aside, the guy changed his mind. Personally, I would have backed away when he said he didn't want to honor the original terms. Some folks are too amiable to just say, I changed my mind and I am not selling. While he has that option, it is outside of my and your rules of society. I think most here would follow through with the agreement. I think you will be doing well to get your money returned. I wish you the best.

[Racer X]

I got a VERY apologetic text when I turned my phone on this morning. He agreed that we had a deal, and that he would honor it. The UPS location near him is a depot with a customer service window only open 4-630pm. I got a text from him mid-afternoon with a photo of the shipping receipt. The Tracking number is active and on its way here. I'll post when my FFL opens it sand I see if its a brick or my pistol and spare upper. AND I'm 99% sure it will be the stainless upper originally agreed on.

One reason I did this through text, was that was how I originally got some detailed pics. But of course I also have the whole conversation saved as well. When I mentioned that Mail Fraud is a federal felony, and no more firearms, that might have rattled him.

[lrrifleman]

Racer,

I apologize if this sounds cold, but could I ask what particular handgun has generated the agita that you seem to be experiencing?