One of my posts in Sheriff/Gun thread got me to thinking back. In my early 20's I had considered work in Law Enforcement but back then in the 60's it was unheard of in my rural area. I did speak to the county sheriff and was highly discouraged to even think about it.
When did women break the barrier? In recent years there have been a few here locally.
Those of you who are/were LE, did you work with any women officers? If so, what did you think?

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Super Snooper

"Barrier" was broken approximately early 1970s.

I have represented LEO in civil rights cases. One time I was interviewing a lieutenant with one of the local police departments. While she was reading some documents, I had a chance to watch her. She was slim and had blonde hair made into a french braid. I laughed under my breath and she looked up and asked me what was funny. Looked her in the eye and said: "I just realized that you can kick my butt." Without taking her eyes off mine, she said: "Yes. Yes, I can." We both laughed and got back to work. I think female officers are just fine. You have to remember, on the Use of Force Continuum, a small female police officer can use deadly force much quicker than a male police officer depending on the size and number of threatening suspects. Don't judge a book by it's cover.

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That's gonna leave a mark.

I had the opportunity to work with quite a few female Troopers. All but one were outstanding to work with. We worked fairly closely with local PDs and Sheriff's Deputies also, due to being a rural county and we had to rely on the other departments for backup. I don't recall any incident where I ever had an issue with a female Officers handling of a situation. My last few years, there were 2 female Deputies that worked the same shift as me and on crash scenes they handled traffic control when I was on scene alone. I was always glad to see them show up because they NEVER left the scene without making sure I was OK with them clearing. There may have been a few extra 'moods' to deal with but you learned quickly when to keep your mouth shut and to keep your distance. (Note: Don't we all have moods?) I learned early on that we all have some things that we excell at and then other things that we may be mediocre at. It is a rare person indeed that excells at all things. Most of the female Troopers, Deputies and Officers I worked with had a knack for talking to people and getting them to comply without having to lay hands on.

I remember how attractive many of the female officers were back in the 80's and 90's (high school/college) the joke among my friends was if you ever saw a beautiful "professional" lady on the street it was an undercover cop... it was true... there are still attractive LEO Ladies... I just don't go driving around late at night with "the guys" looking and acting like an immature "man" would... wife won't let me out at night... past my bed time...

I have worked with many female cops. Most were brilliant at the job. A few were to inclined to play the “I’m just a girl and can’t....” card.

This week I watched a reconstruction of an incident video aas part of our lessons learnt program. Two person patrol, male/female, pull over a local version of a gang banger known to be anti cop.

Male approached, gets drivers license, goes back to car to conduct checks (mistake #1. All our checks are done on iPhone. Take phone to car and do the checks while talking to driver) and breathalyser (always carry mine in my pocket). Says to female that driver “okay” to deal with today.

Female sees rear lights flashing on and off, obviously driver either bored or thinking about taking off and putting transmission in and out of drive. Female goes up and demands multiple times driver turn off engine (mistake #2 Should have sent the male cop who has a rapport with the driver or just engaged him in conversation).

Driver refuses, gets out, female backs up and due to aggression draws taser. Male in car concentrating on his phone oblivious to what is going on (mistake #3. Always know what is going on around you, donut get so wrapped up in what you are doing).

Female decides not to discharge taser as driver too close and probes might not spread (bad point of our training there). Keeps backing up. Offender grabs taser from her.

By now male cop realises what’s going on, exits car and draws his own taser. Fires but misses. Offender fires twice missing once. Second shot one taser probe lodges in skin on side of male cops neck, second probe in his stab proof vest. Enough of a connection to get a tingle but not incapacitating. Can't fire second shot at offender due to being blinded by taser light (late dusk).

Female officer uses OC spray on offender which causes him to move taser light. Male cop fires taser from extreme range and hits offender who drops.

When later interviewed for this “lessons learnt” video male cop appears thoughtful and competent, female appears not so thoughtful and somewhat forceful in demeanour. Reminds me that honey attracts more flys than vinegar.

And yes, I know many male cops who display the same attitude.

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View from down under

To me, it's not a big deal. My wife, however, thinks differently. She says women don't have any business enforcing the law OR running the country.

I didn't have a lot of experience working with female cops, but I did have one for a partner for awhile who I'd take over anybody else I ever worked with, even in a physical brawl -- she was in better shape then most guys and a scrapper. But she wasn't perfect -- in the winter she insisted on keeping the heater in the patrol car turned up so high I thought my shoes would melt.

I had one F/M Reserve Officer I worked with. Her father was a former full time Officer and both father / daughter were experienced EMTs. She could get compliance because she didn't trigger the "something to prove" instinct in citizen contacts.
There were no F/M Officers in the PD at that time. F/M Officers could go places and do things that male counter parts could not which was sometime relevant in the sea side college town.

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NRA LIFE
Reserve Officer 9yrs

Going back to my original post, I know there have been several women officers in the small town departments here. I have only had contact with one and that wasn't the best experience.She was a member of an adjoining PD, came into the pawnshop demanding I turn over some merchandise that she said was stolen, no paperwork. Told her that wasn't how it worked. At that time the shop was under the jurisdiction of the county Sheriff's department and they took care of all of that. Tried to explain that to her, nope, she'd be back with warrant and charge me for obstruction of justice.. Didn't happen. She let a little power go to her head.
Glad to hear others have had better experiences.

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Super Snooper

Pawngal, that was true, some at the beginning of their career, seemed to think they were God. But later they settled down. (same as most of the new recruits, men included), especially if they were younger than 25.

When I was on, the only females I can remember were, one worked in juvinile...Of course it was thought a female baby sitter was needed....( she ws a good gal though). The other worked up worked in the detectives...One other???? she worked way upstairs on third floor near the chief...She was a good gal too...But there weren't any out on the on the streets in cruisers.

I remember back when too, during watching some new recruits, there was a young gal...How it was tought to her to wear a T shirt under her blue blouse. The insructor, reached over and grabbed her blouse, and ripped it, breaking some of the buttons off...Of course she grabbled the front her her self, instinctively to cover up..

The instructor drove home the need for her to wear a T ****.


More in a min...got to ans a phone call.


WuzzFuzz

Over 45 year career I worked with a number of female officers with negative problems. Most were overachieves and went up the ranks rather quickly. All were not hesitate to get down and mix it up. I was unable to treat them like a guy but they forgave me for insisting on going though a door or dark alley first. They must have felt comfortable with me as I soon went from Sergeant or Captain (later) to either Dad or Jimmy. I once ask if Macho Man would fit me better than Dad or Jimmy. The vote was "NO"!

Pawngal, from the snooping you did here a couple of years ago, you would have made one Hell of a Copper...A flat foot, I don't know about that, but I for one would sure have been proud to call you my Sister in Blue.




WuzzFuzz

I was raised to respect women and to always treat them well and had no patience for men who treated a woman with disrespect. However I also grew up during the time when women began to be more common in 'power' roles. At times when working with a female officer I had to force myself to "let them handle it" when I thought a situation was starting to go south. I had to learn to be more patient because they worked situations differently than men did. I worked with a female Sergeant who was a hoot to work with. I didn't always agree with decisions she made but if one of her decisions turned out poorly, she ALWAYS stepped up and admitted the decision had been hers and hers alone. Stand up supervisor.

In the 1980’s, women were beginning to be hired here.

There was substantial resistance from male cops’s wives: they didn’t trust hubby’s self control in the presence of another woman! It was even worse in the fire department: the wives were terrified by the idea of women in the firehouse.

I remember several male officers begged not to be assigned a female partner because their wives wouldn’t like it and it might result in their divorce. These guys got their wish (the female officers didn’t need the hassle of being marriage counselors for their partners), but none of those guys were ever promoted.

In my life I have met women so tough they'd put me to shame. During my time in the academy and later on the job, I have met women I'd go through any door with, no questions asked!

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Jorge

I worked with many over the years. Like the men, most were competent, some were damn good, and a few needed to be in a different career. One I had my doubts about, 5'03" and skinny, ultra nice to everyone. One night she and her assisting officer got into a knock down drag out fight with a large man. He clobbered her on the jaw and knocked her clear across the living room. Just as soon as she got up she jumped back into the fight. She turned out to be a darn good cop.

I'm not an officer, but I have dealt with many of them over the years with shoplifting calls. The best officer I ever dealt with is female. She's now retired, but she was VERY professional, and good at defusing situations that might have gotten out of hand with a male officer.

On the other side of that coin, probably the worst officer I ever knew was also a female. She did not have the same skills, and she was a "flake." She was fired after shooting herself in the leg accidentally in her own yard and claiming that it was a driveby shooting in an attempt to cover up her negligence.

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Or something like that . . .

Charlie and Pat two-five.



I been dealin' with this one for 48 years. We had the same badge number back then.
She could outshoot everyone in her department and still outshoots me.

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Eccentric old coot

Thanks! At time I was thinking about LE, one of the deputies was renting the second house on my mother's farm where I lived. That was when I had my hot rod '57 Vette, he said "you just want to get the Dodge Charger to drive" Heck yes, it had the 426 Hemi!

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Super Snooper

One of my first field training officers in 1986 was a black female officer. One of the best officers in the department at the time. Sadly, she has moved out of state, and we have lost touch, but her son, a good friend, remains local, and keeps me up to date . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Left the Army in 1972 and joined the cops. Lots of female applicants, but very few stayed around to complete the testing when informed that the job involved rotating shifts, weekends, holidays, and not much chance of any assignment other than uniformed patrol until we had several years on the job (male or female).

Couple of lawsuits followed, ladies complaining about the physical agility testing, height of the wall to be scaled, weight of the dummy to be carried away from a scene, number of pull-ups or sit-ups, whatever. Results included significantly reduced physical strength and agility requirements for all applicants. Ditto on the height and weight requirements, those changed as well.

By 1974-1976 we were well into "affirmative action" programs with targeted hiring (aka: quotas) for women and others identified as minority applicants. Please note that I am not offering criticism, just reporting on the facts as they existed back in the day.

Affirmative action remained the norm into the 1980's, not only for entry level hiring but also for promotional exams and specialized assignments.

Worked with a lot of guys, some good and some not so good. Worked with a lot of women, some good and some not so good.

An old axiom about police work is that only about half of all new cops remain on the job longer than 5 to 7 years. The "burn out rate" can be brutal due to stresses caused by the nature of the work, shift assignments, weekends, holidays, off-duty court time requirements, and the strains on marital or relationship matters. I do not have statistics or other data to support this observation, but it has been my observation that "burn out" seems to hit female officers as a higher rate than males.

I'm probably just blabbering now about how things used to be, and I don't mean to do that. Law enforcement is a tough business that takes a toll on each individual, some more than others.

I used to tell young officers two things repeatedly:

1. It's not just an adventure, it's a job (parody on the old Army commercials).

2. If you need a lot of love you should join the fire department (wisdom imparted by one of my early training officers).

That brought back memories. When I was still in high school I did EMT training (never got certified/licensed), and did a ride-a-long with a fire department on one of their rescue ambulances. At the time I was interested in a law enforcement career, and I still remember one of the paramedics on the ambulance telling me, "Why do you wanna be a cop? Nobody likes cops. Be a firefighter. Everybody loves firefighters."

Yes, I have had a couple encounters. The one that stands out the most, I was Dove hunting, with permission. Someone called and the FLEO showed up. I saw the car coming up the long driveway and quickly figured out what was happening. I put the dog on the leash and on the tie out stake. Unloaded my shotgun keeping all in plain view, the gun, my hands, which held my paper work. She stopped a few yards away and jumped out of the car. She demanded I put my gun on the ground which was quite muddy-- I explained I would NOT put a $2500.00 gun in the mud and that she had no reason to expect that. Somewhat befuddled at my refusal she ask if I had permission (not required on unposted land at that time). I stated I did and had it in writing, required on posted land, I get it any way. She ask me to come slowly forward for inspection and I did, my hand out with the paper work. She checked everything and said 'have a good day' asking me not to load my gun until she was gone. While I ubderstand her caution, I think she over reacted to a non problem. It seems to me that many, I cant say most, feel they have something to prove. That at least is how she, and some others have come across. Maybe with reason. I just dont judge. There are people in every job that for one reason or the other dont belong there, JMHO

...by and large the percentage good/bad was equal to the male LEO’s with whom I worked.

Several female LEO’s stood out...both ways.

First, the bad! Two were absolutely useless. One made it to retirement. One ‘retired’ on POD about three years in. Both were totally useless in every single way. Another wholly useless one somehow made a very high rank . For just a short time.

Now, the good! Two made Chiefs in big orgs. They earned it!

Three were State Troopers in a big time highway oriented state police unit and were ROAD Troopers! They rocked!

One absolutely saved her male partner’s life when he was disarmed by a thug. She shot the thug dead. She is quite likely the best with whom I worked (for that alone) despite the career achievements of the others.

Be safe...be well.

With that two inch nickeled Model 10 ??

I started in ‘68 when the only women were juvie detectives, and they needed a sociology degree to even apply. Around 1972 we hired our very first lady in uniform who’d been a school crossing guard prior as well as a champion member of our pistol team. She worked out fine, retiring as a lieutenant 25 yrs later.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I am not law enforcement but I have dealt with lady officers twice. One was a master sarge dealing with a domestic situation(not mine) and she took charge and ended it quickly.
The other was a collision that I was involved in. She was pleasant but very business like, especially dealing with the gun that I had in the car.
Both were very good. No complaints.

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Mighty 90's,Trying 4 a 100!

Yup, she also won tomahawk throwing contests in 3 states and still goes to the National Bowling Finals every year.


A Deputy made an inappropriate remark to her and she decked him.

A friend and I were shooting black powder cartridge rifles at a steel buffalo at a 1000 yards. She asked if she could try it.
I explained tang rear sight and the spirit level front sights on my 45-70 Sharps to her. She took an off hand stance, aimed, and fired.
She lowered the rifle and asked “Did I mis...Bong!”
She handed me the rifle and said “It’s best to quit on a hit!”

I walk a straight and narrow path I can tell you for sure, and am plumb happy to do so.
She’s a keeper.

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Eccentric old coot

LoboGunLeather, (Ray) and I were on the same department at the same time, he summed our experiences much better that I could have. Over the time I was on the job I discovered that most of the lady officers were eager to do a Good job, and most succeeded. As with ANY group there were a few that should not have been hired.

A more personal note: all I ever wanted/expected from any co-worker was to be qualified to hold the position they had, and to be a decent person. Sadly, those two traits don’t always go hand in hand.

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Always Stay Strong!

We had a few ladies in the middle 70's, nothing to talk about except one. Average height/weight, not beautiful but cute. A like most departments, most of us had nick names. Nothing to do with her physical appearance, but she was called Manster (half man-half monster). She was always in there doing what you would expect of any officer. We also had Lee Harvey (my partner who looked like Oswald), Gonad the Barbarian (made guttural noises when in a scrap), Blizzard (who was always in a fog, later re-named Lizzard, a more fitting name), and too many more to mention.

Go ahead and mentioned them, one or two may have quit your dept and transferred over to where I was.


WuzzFuzz

Not only is she a keeper, you hit the jackpot, You better not let her get away.

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Mighty 90's,Trying 4 a 100!

I do agree, the wise man knows when has hit his jackpot.

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KM
S&WCA 3110 S&WHF 625

I guess there are opinions on both sides of the equation in the OP. We all base our opinions on our past experiences and first hand observations...and...some base their opinions on what others say or what they read in the paper or on the internet. In any event opinions on this have always been at odds and probably will be from now on.

Actually there are points that can be made to support both sides. I remember a clip that was online a while back about a female officer that pulled over a guy on a traffic stop. He had his preteen daughter in the car with him but he still beat that female officer almost to death. He probably would have killed her if his daughter hadn't made him stop hitting her. That incident started a huge flap over female officers. But that guy could have just as easily beat up a lot of male officers.

Time and again female officer distinguish themselves physically and demonstrate a real ability in solving crime and handling potentially dangerous situations.

I believe the truth, if there is a singular truth is that a persons ability to be an effective and capable police officer should be based on the applicants qualification without regard to gender. There are a lot of women out there that would be excellent officers just as there are a lot of men out there that should NOT be police officers.

Women are at least as capable as men of rising to any occasion that may arise. I believe that this also applies to women in the military. Men must demonstrate a certain level of physical ability mental ability to serve in combat and if any woman can demonstrate those abilities they are entitled to serve as well.

I was a senior in high school when I saw my first "cat" fight. It was very disturbing and I realized then that a female can be as vicious and a male if you hit the right button.

I honestly would rather fight 2 men at a time that fight one woman.

The sexual harassment situation is awful. I don't know what the solution to that is. My daughter was in the Army and had a story or two to tell when she got out. BTW the two that tried to harass her have a story to tell too. But the fact is that more could be done to prevent it...and more should be done.

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Real men love cats!

When women were introduced into uniform patrol, they came straight from the academy without any street experience. There was no FTO programs at that time and you were assigned to a senior officer for a month of OJT. Of course, all senior officers were men and then the problems began.

You could opt out of riding with a female officer if you were married and felt this could cause you marital problems. Supervisors could also opt you out if they felt you might have extracurricular activities in mind with your female partner. I chose the married officer option, not because it was really a problem, I just did not want to ride with a female. This left a rather small pool of acceptable senior officers. This all happened in 1975.

Before retirement, I rode with many female officers and some were very good and others not so and later they were appointed assistant chiefs.Go figure.

I was an FTO before that term existed and when I had a woman rookie we’d go to my house for our meal break. She met my wife & kids and that put everyone at ease afterward.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Most of the female LEO's I've worked with are good officers who I have confidence in and trust. There are a few I've come across who should not be in law enforcement.

Most of the male LEO's I've worked with are good officers who I have confidence in and trust. There are a few I've come across who should not be in law enforcement.

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- Change it back -

I like all women.

I think this is how most of the country feels about the police in general. It’s a tough time to be a cop, but for those of you who are, try to keep in mind that the vast majority of the people appreciate your service to our communities, and want no part of reducing your budgets, etc.

Outside of LE, I've noticed women sorta follow a bell curve when it comes to competency. A few are really exceptional. Most are solid/competent. A few should find other work. Kinda like...well, guys.

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Vegan by proxy.