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  #1  
Old 09-17-2020, 08:34 AM
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Default Birth of the Constitution

Happy Constitution Day!

Yip, on this day in 1787 the chaps signed it.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:04 AM
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What would they think of their new country today?
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:42 AM
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Here’s a quick pop quiz:
How many times is the word “democracy” used in the Constitution?
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Old 09-17-2020, 10:12 AM
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Here’s a quick pop quiz:
How many times is the word “democracy” used in the Constitution?
I would say none. Our form of government is a constitutional republic.
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Old 09-17-2020, 10:46 AM
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A means to govern a nation without despotism, but government by its very nature want more power, so a number of things were included in the constitution & Bill of Rights to limit that power grab. We call those "Checks and Balances". Government is in check by way of 1) National Government, 2) State Government, &3) The will and conscience of the people. The Federal Government was held in check internally by being divided into 3 sections: The Legislative, Judicial, and the Executive. The President was decided to be the Commander and Chief of the Federal military; But to check a military takeover, The states each has a State Guard, and there was the Armed Populace (the old English word was Militia!)

There were times of attempted unlawful secession (The Whiskey Rebellion) and times of lawful secession (1861 South & Texas), The President at those times used all 3 militaries to suppress that. There were times of attempted foreign invasion (1812 & Mexico/Germany 1914) and all 3 Militaries were used to repel, expel, or interdict them.

While I only touched one or two small tips of our Constitution's far reaching insight and wisdom, I believe it to be the best form of earthly government!

Happy 233rd Birthday!

Ivan
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Old 09-17-2020, 08:05 PM
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What would they think of their new country today?
Probably not pleasant thoughts.
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Old 09-18-2020, 12:32 AM
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Sad to say if one of those great old boys were here today he would have a difficult time finding a contemporary.
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:06 AM
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The foresight of the founders are without parallel. To envision the blueprint for the republic, and to implement a protocol to encourage the survival of it, cannot be overstated.
Through good times and bad, it remains the clarion call for all citizens who love our nation, as we strive to preserve, protect, and defend her from all her enemies, foreign and domestic.
God save the Republic.
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:25 AM
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The Electoral College provision in the Constitution was a master stroke of wisdom. It prevented a few heavily populated states from dominating and deciding Presidential elections. California and New York's decisions alone would always determine the outcome today if a popular vote election was law, totally eliminating the rest of the U.S. from any participation in the process. The other state's votes would be meaningless. Efforts today to eliminate the Electoral College pave the way for absolute chaos. There was good and valid reasoning for it and I applaud the founding fathers for including this system.

John
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:45 AM
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The Electoral College provision in the Constitution was a master stroke of wisdom. It prevented a few heavily populated states from dominating and deciding Presidential elections. California and New York's decisions alone would always determine the outcome today if a popular vote election was law, totally eliminating the rest of the U.S. from any participation in the process. The other state's votes would be meaningless. Efforts today to eliminate the Electoral College pave the way for absolute chaos. There was good and valid reasoning for it and I applaud the founding fathers for including this system.

John
If I had a dollar for every time I tried to explain this to someone around here. To many don't understand this, and are stuck on thinking that a popular vote win should prevail. Every time I hear that argument and a call to eliminate the Electoral College, tyranny of the majority comes to mind.
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:48 AM
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What would they think of their new country today?
I have ancestors that shot at the British and I'm a life SAR member. It makes me sad and ashamed to see what this country has become. Larry
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by redlevel View Post
Here’s a quick pop quiz:
How many times is the word “democracy” used in the Constitution?
“Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”
-John Adams
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Old 09-18-2020, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dockmurgw View Post
If I had a dollar for every time I tried to explain this to someone around here. To many don't understand this, and are stuck on thinking that a popular vote win should prevail. Every time I hear that argument and a call to eliminate the Electoral College, tyranny of the majority comes to mind.
And if I had a dollar for every time I ran into somebody who seriously thought that the Founding Fathers had a problem with majority rule ....

They did not want a direct democracy because they feared mob rule, and the electoral college is part of the representative republic they constructed.

But the idea was most certainly was not that a minority could elect a president as a matter of course.

And since for 40 out of 45 times the president has won the popular vote, the country has done quite well with your “tyranny of the majority”.
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Old 09-18-2020, 11:55 AM
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And if I had a dollar for every time I ran into somebody who seriously thought that the Founding Fathers had a problem with majority rule ....

They did not want a direct democracy because they feared mob rule, and the electoral college is part of the representative republic they constructed.

But the idea was most certainly was not that a minority could elect a president as a matter of course.

And since for 40 out of 45 times the president has won the popular vote, the country has done quite well with your “tyranny of the majority”.
What the heck are you talking about? I know exactly what the electoral college is for, and what the founders feared. Nothing you said is in any way counter to what I said, until your last paragraph. Where did that come from when all I was talking about is people I talk to that want to eliminate the electoral college and rely on popular vote alone.

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Old 09-18-2020, 01:38 PM
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One of the most significant days in world history. Hard to believe how many people hate it these days.
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Old 09-18-2020, 02:45 PM
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A copy of the Constitution sits on my coffee table, and I carry one with me in the laptop bag I use for work.

It really is a brilliant document, a superb way of organizing a government. Three co-equal branches, each with its own powers (and limits on those powers), thus protecting against the possibility of a king or dictator seizing control.

When my gun-hating friends try to tell me that the Second Amendment's "militia" clause refers to a military force, I always refer them to Article I, Section 8, Clauses 12 and 13, which permit Congress to "raise and support Armies" and "provide and maintain a Navy". Those clauses already authorize the government to be armed (and clearly indicate the Founders' opinion of standing armies), so the Second Amendment clearly refers to the citizens.

I wish more Americans would read the Constitution and try to understand it, but that seems to be out-of-fashion these days...
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Old 09-19-2020, 12:33 AM
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And if I had a dollar for every time I ran into somebody who seriously thought that the Founding Fathers had a problem with majority rule ....

They did not want a direct democracy because they feared mob rule, and the electoral college is part of the representative republic they constructed.

But the idea was most certainly was not that a minority could elect a president as a matter of course.

And since for 40 out of 45 times the president has won the popular vote, the country has done quite well with your “tyranny of the majority”.
In fact there is a serious proposal by some Constitutional scholars that the framers thought that more often than not, the president would be elected by the House of Representative, that no one would amass a majority of electoral votes. . The framers never thought anyone would “run for President.” They certainly never thought there would be an election where citizens of each state would vote for president. Popular electoral politics was to be confined to the House if Representatives and the state legislatures.
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