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Old 09-24-2020, 05:03 PM
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Default Gasoline additives

I know there are a bunch of them out there. Any of them worth their salt?

I burn top tier rated gasoline with good detergent additives that exceed EPA ratings. Somehow I think that is about the best that can be done with today's direct injection engines, because there is no detergent going to the top of the exhaust valves to clean off carbon.

Any thoughts on this?
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Old 09-24-2020, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narragansett View Post
I know there are a bunch of them out there. Any of them worth their salt?

I burn top tier rated gasoline with good detergent additives that exceed EPA ratings. Somehow I think that is about the best that can be done with today's direct injection engines, because there is no detergent going to the top of the exhaust valves to clean off carbon.

Any thoughts on this?
I am no expert but I would think most if not all are a waist of money these days with modern fuel injected engines and good gas. Now for long tern storage or use of unleaded gas you need to add Staybil. I remember the STP adds back in the day with Richard Petty but even back in those days I don't think they did much.
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Old 09-24-2020, 05:52 PM
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My cars are older and on recommendation of my mechanic, I put an occasional can of SeaFoam in the tank. Helps.
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Old 09-24-2020, 05:56 PM
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There are many, many threads about that subject on the Bob Is The Oil Guy website. In fact there is a whole section devoted to fuel additives.

If you want to skip reading them, the general consensus is that Redline SI-1 is the best, it should be added to the tank a few hundred miles prior to an oil change, it is better to do it if the driving is to be expected to be many trips of various lengths and speeds vs. just before a long freeway drive at high speed, and it should be done about every 5000 miles.

Or, it is just snake oil, so save your money. Personally, I have used Redline and Techron for decades and never needed any kind of "fuel injector cleaning service" as offered by dealers and my cars always ran like a top.

If you have a car with Direct Injection, one of the biggest causes of deposit buildup is "severe driving conditions" as described in your owners manual. That is a lot of short trips where the engine and oil doesn't really get good and hot. Use synthetic oil with a low sulfated ash content and change it every 5000 miles regardless of the temptation to go 7500, 10,000 or even 15,000 miles between changes unless all your driving is at freeway speeds.
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Old 09-24-2020, 06:10 PM
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After agonizing over which one to try I picked
Techron Complete Fuel System Cleaner.
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Old 09-24-2020, 06:10 PM
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I'd settle for them selling proper Premium 93 Octane in Nevada instead of the 91 octane swill we get because our gasoline comes from California.
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Old 09-24-2020, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Rego View Post
There are many, many threads about that subject on the Bob Is The Oil Guy website. In fact there is a whole section devoted to fuel additives.

If you want to skip reading them, the general consensus is that Redline SI-1 is the best, it should be added to the tank a few hundred miles prior to an oil change, it is better to do it if the driving is to be expected to be many trips of various lengths and speeds vs. just before a long freeway drive at high speed, and it should be done about every 5000 miles.

Or, it is just snake oil, so save your money. Personally, I have used Redline and Techron for decades and never needed any kind of "fuel injector cleaning service" as offered by dealers and my cars always ran like a top.

If you have a car with Direct Injection, one of the biggest causes of deposit buildup is "severe driving conditions" as described in your owners manual. That is a lot of short trips where the engine and oil doesn't really get good and hot. Use synthetic oil with a low sulfated ash content and change it every 5000 miles regardless of the temptation to go 7500, 10,000 or even 15,000 miles between changes unless all your driving is at freeway speeds.
I drive a VW 1.8 turbo charged Jetta that is direct inject. I wind up the turbo from time to time. The manual says 10K on oil changes. I dumped the original oil at 500 miles, installed a magnetic drain plug, and use Kendall Euro full synthetic oil , and change it and the filter at 5K without fail. I burn nothing but Mobil or Shell gas.

Sounds like I am doing about the best I can by the car
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Old 09-24-2020, 06:14 PM
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I hauled hot liquid asphalt a couple years back in the 70's when Texaco
had an ad on TV about their gasoline and secret additives. At one refinery
the asphalt dock and gasoline dock was within sight of each other. All
gasoline brands in the area filled up at this refinery, when Texaco trucks
filled up the driver would take about a 1/4 pint bottle of additive and add
to 5,000+ gallons of gasoline. Sure they had the secret additives, I'm
just not sure how much good these additives accomplished.

I use Castrol syn. oil and buy whatever gasoline is cheapest. And have
had several vans, trucks and cars with over 300,000 miles on the engines.
My opinion, which I don't charge for, is that most gasolines with the same
octane rating are about the same. That is unless you are buying it from
some guy in an alley and he pumps it from a rusted 55 gal. barrel.
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Old 09-24-2020, 06:15 PM
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I have run a Toyota and 2 Hondas past 200,000 miles and 2 of those went on past 300,000 with no additives. So I deem them a waste of money. These modern engines run so lean that they would burn cast iron if you could get it past the fuel injectors.
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Old 09-24-2020, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
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I'd settle for them selling proper Premium 93 Octane in Nevada instead of the 91 octane swill we get because our gasoline comes from California.
You can mix a gallon or to of 110 octane unleaded fuel to a tank to up the octane. I have not bought racing fuel in a while, but I used to do that with my 1970 Nova 402/425hp, because it would not rum on pump gas without pinging.

i bet it is 12 bucks a gallon
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Old 09-24-2020, 06:50 PM
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...1970 Nova 402/425hp, because it would not rum on pump gas without pinging...
I had one of those. I used Sunoco 260 or the top octane Gulf worked fine. Almost fully advanced spark, heat riser and air injection removed. Skinnier primary jets, gaping hole secondary jets, L-78 engine. Timing, plugs checked every two weeks. No pings or knocks up to 7000 rpm where it was still coming on strong but I never exceeded that. 7000 rpm was 70 mph in 1st gear and 140 mph in 4th, make ya grin. Great car.
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Old 09-24-2020, 06:53 PM
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When I was working I worked in Ma, I averaged 50K a year, I kept most of my trucks 10 yrs and never added anything, changed my oil every 4 weeks.

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Old 09-24-2020, 06:58 PM
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Easy to check with a scan tool. If you have a good shop or own a scan tool you can see if you Have dirty injectors and what effect the cleaners have . I have seen chevron Techron have a huge effect on tail pipe testing results here in Texas , that should correlate to cleanliness of your engine.
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Old 09-24-2020, 07:21 PM
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A friend drove tanker truck for a local distributor. There is a terminal near Pittsburgh that he would load up the fuel. He delivered to Sunoco, Gulf and just about any station around as well as the no name mom and pops.
FWIW my MIL bought a T Bird with the 4.6l V8. She complained about the engine making a rattling noise. I ran a can of spray Sea Foam through the air intake and the noise would stop. I’m guessing carbon buildup causing pinging.
Many of my customers split it up. Half in the tank and half in the oil.
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Old 09-24-2020, 07:54 PM
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Sea Foam is only one I have personal dealings with.
Had a rough running Ranger that smoothed out quick
with a dose of that.
Have a 2011 Escape four banger that gets an annual swig.
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
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I had one of those. I used Sunoco 260 or the top octane Gulf worked fine. Almost fully advanced spark, heat riser and air injection removed. Skinnier primary jets, gaping hole secondary jets, L-78 engine. Timing, plugs checked every two weeks. No pings or knocks up to 7000 rpm where it was still coming on strong but I never exceeded that. 7000 rpm was 70 mph in 1st gear and 140 mph in 4th, make ya grin. Great car.
The only gas my built 69 SS 396 Chevelle would run good on was 260 Sunoco.

Being that it got around 5 MPG there was times I had no choice but to use different gas. Poor thing ran and sounded awful.
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:19 PM
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Does the stuff work?
I don't know, but it's cheap insurance and doesn't seem to hurt anything.

Our struggle today isn't with fuel quality, per se.
There are plenty of detergents in all brands.
It's with federally mandated ethanol in the fuel.
Ethanol and petroleum don't get along, except by extreme chemical intervention.
Non-ethanol fuel is getting more expensive and harder to find (near me).

I've used Techron in the tank of all gas vehicles, every oil change (one tank before), for about 10 years.

Staybil goes in my stored gas cans, to keep the rotten ethanol garbage from buggering up my lawn equipment.
I try to drain them all before Winter, but sometimes forget to actually run them completely dry before storage.

Stanodine goes into all my diesel vehicles every 3rd tank.
I know for a fact that this stuff works!


So... Why not?
I'm pretty sure the brand of additive doesn't really matter, as long as you use something.

I know the fuel injector flush recommendations are mostly BS.
It ain't in my owner manual, and never has been!

Yes, it helps when injectors, fuel tank, or fuel lines are contaminated.
But it's not a "regular maintenance" item.

Oh... And I used to sell the service.
I was paid a good commission, by the supplier, on every single one.
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:29 PM
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Years ago, an old mechanic told me, "Gas in the gas tank, oil in the crankcase, period." With the exception of Sta-Bil that I run thru my Vette before it goes into the barn for the winter, I've always taken that advice.
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:36 PM
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We need to get our emissions tested every year. Several years ago my
old pickup truck failed the test. I went to an Auto Zone and picked up
a product called GUARANTEED TO PASS. Ran it for a few days, went
back and passed the test. Since then I have been running it through
both my pickup and my car before the annual test and so far it has
passed every time.
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:43 PM
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T e c h r o n
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Old 09-24-2020, 09:12 PM
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I used to have a 96 Chevy Z71 pickup and when the engine started to get a little balky on acceleration I would add a can of Seafoam to a full tank of gas. The Balky acceleration would go away but the gas mileage on that tank of fuel would plummet, never figured out why.
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Old 09-24-2020, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gboling View Post
I have run a Toyota and 2 Hondas past 200,000 miles and 2 of those went on past 300,000 with no additives. So I deem them a waste of money. These modern engines run so lean that they would burn cast iron if you could get it past the fuel injectors.

I agree. I just sold my 02 Tundra that I bought new. It still had all of its original fuel system parts including the fuel filter. The only non maintenance part that ever failed was one o2 sensor. I always buy the cheapest gas (usually e10) and never buy fuel additives.


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Old 09-24-2020, 09:18 PM
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My cars are older and on recommendation of my mechanic, I put an occasional can of SeaFoam in the tank. Helps.

Seafoam is for 2 cycle outboards.

The Truth About Seafoam Fuel Additive - YouTube


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Old 09-24-2020, 09:22 PM
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Once in a while you need to put your foot into it and wind it out good and hard.

Like every time you hit an onramp.
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Old 09-24-2020, 10:17 PM
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Once in a while you need to put your foot into it and wind it out good and hard.

Like every time you hit an onramp.
Nice idea, but I'm not looking to get on first name terms with the Las Vegas contingent of Nevada Highway Patrol.

Good long highway runs usually work well. The first car I had here was a 3.8 Firebird that had clearly been an "around town" car. Took it to central Arizona and back and it was running like a gas turbine when I got home.
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Old 09-24-2020, 10:34 PM
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Seafoam is for 2 cycle outboards.

The Truth About Seafoam Fuel Additive - YouTube


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Oh that guy. Sorry IMHO, he's an idiot.

I'll take the advice of the mechanic I've been using for 20 years over some youtube dude.
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Old 09-24-2020, 10:41 PM
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Nice idea, but I'm not looking to get on first name terms with the Las Vegas contingent of Nevada Highway Patrol.
Its an acceleration lane. That's what they're for.
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Old 09-24-2020, 10:42 PM
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Oh that guy. Sorry IMHO, he's an idiot.
LOL Now that's funny.
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Old 09-24-2020, 11:00 PM
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.....

Good long highway runs usually work well. The first car I had here was a 3.8 Firebird that had clearly been an "around town" car. Took it to central Arizona and back and it was running like a gas turbine when I got home.
455 big block Suburban at 90 mph for 2 hrs in ND. Right around 3000 rpm.

Cleaned her right up.
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Old 09-24-2020, 11:19 PM
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Follow the severe service intervals listed in the owner's manual for maintenance. We had fleet vehicles that ran sixteen hours a day driving all over NM in all temps, all altitudes with heavy loads and they ran great! Even with well over 100K miles they ran great.

If you want to pass emissions tests, change the oil and get the vehicle good and hot, then take it to get tested.

In my 70's F150, I run seafoam through the tank, and I used their seafoam spray to clean the upper intake and huge difference in the way the engine ran!
I also put about 6oz in the crankcase oil and run it for about 100-150 miles before an oil change. That oil is black with carbon!
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Old 09-25-2020, 12:35 AM
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I use Lucas Fuel treatment for my small engines. It keeps them smooth running.
Many years ago I got bad/dirty gas in my Taurus one time and it took two tanks of clean gas with Techron to start running smooth again.
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Old 09-25-2020, 12:58 AM
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Oh that guy. Sorry IMHO, he's an idiot.

I'll take the advice of the mechanic I've been using for 20 years over some youtube dude.

52 years experience, 3.65 million YouTube subscribers, over 1 billion views and getting richer by the minute. Sorry but he’s anything but an idiot.


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Old 09-25-2020, 01:33 AM
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52 years experience, 3.65 million YouTube subscribers, over 1 billion views and getting richer by the minute. Sorry but he’s anything but an idiot.


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I think this is perfectly appropriate here:

YMMV

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Old 09-25-2020, 01:40 AM
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I think this is perfectly appropriate here:

YMMV


I doubt if anyone one cares what either of think Gasoline additives lol


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Old 09-25-2020, 03:10 AM
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About the only thing I see with gas today is things that sit to long without use.

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Old 09-25-2020, 05:16 AM
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Default I don't use additive regularly......

....but I understand that items like Seafoam can clean catalytic converters.
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Old 09-25-2020, 07:56 AM
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On the Covette forum I see a lot of advice to use Techron to help avoid problems with the fuel gauge sending units in the tanks. I usually put a bottle in before storing mine for the winter.
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Old 09-25-2020, 08:03 AM
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No top tier gas in my area. I add Techron in my Vette. A couple bottles of that fixed a very expensive problem I was having in my 98 Vette. Now its just cheap insurance to use it. I also make it a point to only use none Ethanol gas.

I do store high test none E gas in the back garage, for emergency's, 4 stroke ATV and to make up two stroke mix for my toys and tools. Staybil.has not failed me.
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Old 09-25-2020, 08:23 AM
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My cars are older and on recommendation of my mechanic, I put an occasional can of SeaFoam in the tank. Helps.
Same here. Once a month maybe.
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Old 09-25-2020, 09:03 AM
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If a car is in good running order and driven an average amount I personally don't feel additives are necessary or really provide any benefits.

If you are going to leave a car sitting for over a month I'd strongly suggest adding Star Brite Enzyme to avoid problems with either a carburetor or fuel injection systems. Star Brite will prevent problems for about a year before even that gives up.

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Old 09-25-2020, 09:34 AM
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Additives are a band-aid, not a cure.
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Old 09-25-2020, 09:52 AM
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sea foam, i add some sea foam to my gas tank every few months and a little in the crankcase after an oil change.
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Old 09-25-2020, 09:55 AM
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I like this guy better than Scotty, but he is testing them in a lawn mower.


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Old 09-25-2020, 10:08 AM
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Nice idea, but I'm not looking to get on first name terms with the Las Vegas contingent of Nevada Highway Patrol.

Good long highway runs usually work well. The first car I had here was a 3.8 Firebird that had clearly been an "around town" car. Took it to central Arizona and back and it was running like a gas turbine when I got home.
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Once in a while you need to put your foot into it and wind it out good and hard.

Like every time you hit an onramp.
That is exactly how I used to blow out my 69 road runner. Had a cop stop me once and ask me what I was doing and if I was a race car driver.

i said no and I did not exceed the speed limit. He just walked away. Ramps have speed limits now
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Old 09-25-2020, 10:50 AM
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I guess there aren't many of us left, but I have been a fan of Marvel Mystery Oil since the 1960's. It was recommended by many of the old-timers back then. I still add MMO to the tank and crankcase upon occasion. I also use it as a soak for old revolvers like many use Ed's Red. It works extremely well for my needs.
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Old 09-25-2020, 12:03 PM
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I am perfectly happy to take the gasoline just as it comes out of the dispenser. I figure that the refineries know much more about what additives are best than I do.

I have read that some people believe that a few ounces of Acetone added to a tankful of gas increases its cleaning abilities, but I haven't been tempted to try it.
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Old 09-25-2020, 12:29 PM
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I am perfectly happy to take the gasoline just as it comes out of the dispenser. I figure that the refineries know much more about what additives are best than I do.

I have read that some people believe that a few ounces of Acetone added to a tankful of gas increases its cleaning abilities, but I haven't been tempted to try it.
I tend to agree with you somewhat, but there are reasons.

Top Tier as is well recommended by most if not all of the auto companies. One of the things in it is Techron. We do not get Top Tier in my area so we add the recommended amount of Techron to occasional fill ups.

If you drive your vechicle regular no problem for the most part nothing other that Techron is needed. If you store for long periods a GOOD stabilizer comes in quite handy. Boats up here are stored about 8 months in all sorts of temperatures. Minus 28-30F can hit. My Vette can easily set 6+ months so you put something in gas that companies do not add as most people do not need it.

You do what works best for you and I will do the same, as not all circumstances are equal. Been a gear head for over 60 years and managed to pick up a few things over the years.


FWIW no acetone for me. I have used plenty of that at the chemical plants I worked at.
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Old 09-25-2020, 01:57 PM
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I claim a bit of insider industry information about gasoline additives, having engineered and installed 40 additive injection systems at distribution terminals. I've heard all the horror stories and success stories. First, additives do nothing to alter octane rating. Don't waste your money unless it makes you feel good. Second, if you buy gasoline from busy major retailers and don't age it for too long before you burn it, water accumulation in your vehicle is not a problem. There was a time in the 80's when there were no additives in generic gasoline and everyone got by just fine. The Federal Trade Commission made distributors put in additives for generic gasoline just in case a rash of water accumulation happened. Third, the proprietary formulas for additives make very little difference in what little good they do. A tiny spritz of light machine oil in a gas tank will bind up what little water may accumulate. You would be amazed at how little gasoline additive is put in tanker trucks for delivery to retailers. I won't name the major oil company, but I saw their additive manufacturing unit. A few solvents and liquified animal fat went in the witch's brew. For whatever good it did, it worked for decades. As several have noted above, direct injection engines derive little benefit from additized fuel. The additive gets incinerated and does nothing for exhaust valves. Clean, high quality motor gasoline with low contaminants works the best for this. If you are really fussy about clean fuel, simply buy premium grade, not for the octane rating, but to avoid the fuel transfer errors in the distribution system that push mistakes into the lowest grade fuel. You would be amazed at what ends up in regular gasoline.
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Old 09-25-2020, 03:58 PM
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I claim a bit of insider industry information about gasoline additives, having engineered and installed 40 additive injection systems at distribution terminals. I've heard all the horror stories and success stories. First, additives do nothing to alter octane rating. Don't waste your money unless it makes you feel good. Second, if you buy gasoline from busy major retailers and don't age it for too long before you burn it, water accumulation in your vehicle is not a problem. There was a time in the 80's when there were no additives in generic gasoline and everyone got by just fine. The Federal Trade Commission made distributors put in additives for generic gasoline just in case a rash of water accumulation happened. Third, the proprietary formulas for additives make very little difference in what little good they do. A tiny spritz of light machine oil in a gas tank will bind up what little water may accumulate. You would be amazed at how little gasoline additive is put in tanker trucks for delivery to retailers. I won't name the major oil company, but I saw their additive manufacturing unit. A few solvents and liquified animal fat went in the witch's brew. For whatever good it did, it worked for decades. As several have noted above, direct injection engines derive little benefit from additized fuel. The additive gets incinerated and does nothing for exhaust valves. Clean, high quality motor gasoline with low contaminants works the best for this. If you are really fussy about clean fuel, simply buy premium grade, not for the octane rating, but to avoid the fuel transfer errors in the distribution system that push mistakes into the lowest grade fuel. You would be amazed at what ends up in regular gasoline.
I have heard that the "Name Brand" gasolines from the major oil companies such as Exxon, Shell, Chevron, etc., will have specific company-prescribed additives and concentrations blended into gasoline sold under their names and in their outlets, no matter where or from what refinery it originates.

Back when I was a kid, in the Tetraethyl Lead days, my father refused to use gasoline other than from Sohio (Standard Oil of Ohio, now BP), as he thought his cars ran much better using Sohio gasoline. I had only his word for it. The power of advertising. It never made any difference to me what brand it was, as I have always bought whatever gas was the cheapest, just like I buy beer. For many years I have usually bought my gas from a nearby convenience store run by an Indian (as in Mumbai) family, as it is always 2 or 3 cents cheaper than anywhere else in the general area of my home. And I figure they need the money more than 7-11 or QT does. I have never had any issues with it.

Regarding water in gasoline, as nearly all gas is now blended with ethanol, I cannot believe that there is any possible problem with water, as the ethanol will suck it right up.

Last edited by DWalt; 09-25-2020 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 09-25-2020, 08:12 PM
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I drive a 2004 bottom of the line Matrix. Coming up on 240,000 miles. Other than TBA, only replaced one AC compressor and one master cylinder. I am light on the gas and light on the brakes. No additives, just cheap swill gas.
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