A couple of opinions about Full Metal Jacket please.
I watched Full Metal Jacket again today. It has been a while
since last time I watched it, so I enjoyed seeing it again. I know
there are quite a lot of Marines on here, and was wondering how
realistic the movie is? The 8 weeks of basic in the Air Force was
nowhere near as physical as that portrayed in the movie. I felt
kinda sorry for private Pyle, too bad how he and Gunny ended up.
Also wondering how realistic the combat scenes in Viet Nam are?

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In Omnia Paratus

The boot camp scenes are pretty real. DIs in those days could get pretty sadistic and into peoples heads. Most everyone I knew got called int the duty hut and got super harassed and some physical punishment to see if they could break you. # DIs come at you from every angle. I got smacked repeatedly with a clip board, milk poured on my head while squatting in front of a row of wall locker. Just take it and say yes sir no sir. I still wonder what would have happened if I fought back, took my total beat down then said just said "Let that be a lesson to you" LOL Probably just more of a beating. Some guys really got hammered. A few guys did kind of crack up. Some guys left and none were ever heard from again.

A "fat hog" in our platoon got caught with a piece of cake in mess hall. He was made to eat soda crackers and jelly then warm water till he puked, then DI told him to eat that to.

Here is a "scene" for you. San Diego in late August heat. Doing PT in the pits (sand in front of Quonset huts). Jumping Jacks, push ups, Mountain climbers. On your belly on your back on your feet. On and on. Finally a kid near me passes out. DI goes over and looks him over and says "bury him, he is dead". Hey, I started tossing sand on him along with every one else. DI starts screaming stop stop stop. And then they dumped a bucket of water on him and he came around.
NO KIDDING.

Come up to you and hand would come out and thumb and fore fingers would grab your Adam's apple and the in your face screaming would begin. Ask you a question with no good answer. Do you like me private. "Sir, yes sir" would get you some kind of screaming or slap for being weird. "Sir, no sir" would get you the same result of course. Do you want to run3 miles with rifles at port arms. LOL Sir yes sir may well mean your going to do just that. Sir no sir meant you were lazy and for that you would run 3 miles with rifles at port arms. LOL. Lots of no win situations presented.

I never got no blanket party, but a couple guys in our platoon did.

After boot camp it has all been easy.

I can't say about combat in VN. I am not qualified. But Boot Camp was more real than any movie might pretend. Some recruits suffered broken teeth and broken bones. We all knew what we were there for: To erase the coddling of mama, To function in a traumatic situation, and To learn how to survive in a POW situation. I do not pity the current anarchists once "WE" are fed up.

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"Don't Give Up the Ship"

I was no Marine, but Army combat vets have told me that, We Were Soldiers was pretty real. Routine patrols usually less intense, not always.

Another . Once we were doing up and on shoulders with our M14 as punishment for something. You hold your rifle in both hands level in front of you, then go straight out with it, straight back to yourself, then up ant then down behind your head, then up, then down then out, then back. Counting 1 2 3 4, 2 2 3 4, 3 2 3 4, 4 2 3 4, 5 2 3 4, etc etc. We get up to about 90 and the DI goes nuts accuses somebody of not doing it right slowing down what ever, We start over at 1. make it back up int the 90s and he explodes again start over. I went in in good shape, stacked hay in the summer track football etc. But, my arms are on fire. This happens again, then finally we make it to 100 and a few people quit. Wrong. You got it in your head that if you could make it to 100 it would be over. Hardly that just got us more screaming and another start over.

Mind games always. Plus, teaches you you always have something left if you need it.

Another favorite tactic. One guy messes up and they punish everyone. Worse was, Pile screws up. DI punishes everyone but Pile.

Once you went to the rifle range they backed off a bit. But they would do something every day to remind us.

Our Di put us in the pits the day we graduated.

It was dead on. R. Lee Ermy nailed it as a Drill Instructor and I got that corkscrew feeling in my back when he called cadence or made attitude adjustments. I was assigned to "C" co 1st Tank Bn, 1969-1970 and did not spend much time with grunts.

I watched Full Metal Jacket and it made think that I did the right thing by enlisting in the Air Force

on youtube there is a 30 minute video on the making of Full Metal Jacket. I would post it but it is complete with the bad language and would probably get in trouble for posting it.

in 1969 Air Force basic as 6 weeks and that is way more than I wanted.

we learned that if you fell in the water at the obstacle course the DI told us to go and change into dry clothes. I sure didn't understand the reasoning for the obstacle course in the Air Force

One of my FD brothers was a USMC Vietnam veteran -- an M60 machine gunner -- who came home after ten months with his 3rd Purple Heart. He didn't talk much about the war, but when Full Metal Jacket came out he did tell us that somebody like Private Pyle would simply have been discharged and not pushed and pushed and pushed as depicted in the movie.

And...on the subject of military basic training: I have a friend who commanded a US Army basic training company in the mid-1970s. He was talking with recruits one day, asking them why they joined the Army, and one of them said that he'd always wanted to kill people, but he knew it was illegal for him to do that as a civilian, so he enlisted in the Army so he could do it legally. My buddy made sure the guy got nowhere near a weapon, and got him discharged ASAP...

I am sure some of the guys who disappeared were eventually processed out. They weeded out the unfit and those who could not take it. But, trying to get out would have been a very hard and uncomfortable road.

One presented at formation who had claimed to be a druggy. He was made to confess to the platoon about drug use. He was berated and degraded and then disappeared. Another was presented and confessed to having the wrong sexual orientation. Super degraded and berated and then he to disappeared.

Bed wetters were rumored to be discharged. But, first they were woken ever hour on the hour and hauled to the head by the company fire watch who was supposed to watch them pee. Never had on in my squad, but I had to wake one in the next platoon over, when I was fire watch. We were told this would happen and that if it continued the bed wetter would be placed on the top bunk with no mattress and the biggest meanest guy in the platoon on the bottom.

In Marine boot camp you could get breakfast in bed. Just stay in your bunk. The DI would be along very shortly to toss you out of it and feed you the concrete deck. No lie. Top or bottom bunk, they would grab the corner of the "mattress" and jerk, off they went on to the cement. Maybe add a boot to help your digestion. Nobody stayed in the bunks after a few days. You were up and moving trying to be prepared before you hear reveille. You never ever got back in your bunk until lights out. My brother made the mistake of not getting up right away the first morning

Funny story

After about a week of total scream fest, PT and having the DIs fill every second we were double timed back to the quonsets. DI says "You can have 10 minutes to go in and straighten up you bunks and relax" I think, hey, they are finally going to start backing off a bit. My heart filled with relief. My squad went into our hut to find that every bunk had be over turned, foot locker stuff strewn from one end to the other from any foot locker left unlocked, was dumped and soap and shaving cream in them spread around. Mind games.

Never ever leave your foot locker or rifle unlocked. Once we had rifles we kept them locked to our bunks during the few hours a day they were not in our hands. Trust me this is a huge mistake. Your stuff will be strewed around, your shaving cream and soap poured on it, then you will be called into the duty hut to be thoroughly harassed for your crime. Been there, didn't get any T shirt. I never left my rifle unlocked. Losing your rifle was a mortal sin proof that you were beyond any worth as a maggot and was dealt with severely.

Once we were on the rifle range every time we left we were lined up in formation and padded down for ammo. I am sure to help prevent suicide or murder. Interestingly bit s of food stolen from the mess haul was passed around behind our backs to avoid detection. They must have know. But, were working on the principal that a round would not get passed very far before being reported.

We were told that if we wanted to commit suicide to use a razor blade to slit our wrists length wise. DO NOT USE YOUR RIFLE. UNTHINKABLE. The blood would make a mess of the rifle and this was simply unacceptable.

I was 2574559,

I know I am way boot to 2427765, he was in the "Old Corps" where it was really, really brutal.

My brother was a 26 and I am sure it was a vacation for him. He lived in a new concrete squat bay. When he went to sick bay and the DR asked him about his bruises he told him he fell down the stair way.

Us "old Corps" guy who live in quonsets just fell down on the asphalt if anyone asked.

I remember one guy turning a rifle inspection ending up with the barrel and receiver shoved down his trousers the stock and sling wrapped around him and the trigger group hanging from the corner of his mouth.

My brother and I both practiced trying to be invisible. Hard to do at 220# and 6'2" . My brother was over 6'6 when he went in at 17. But, the last thing you wanted to do was attract attention.

You have all heard "Never ever volunteer"? After a short time in boot camp a DI has us in formation and states there has been a mistake and they have 2 many people and they need to send 8 people to the Navy. Any volunteers? Some Nit Wits stuck up their hands. Huge mistake. They were not proud to have joined the Marines, they hated the Marines, they were scum they where of course chosen for special motivational considerations. LOL.

There were 2 sources of inside information. The platoon guide and the house mouse. The guide was a private that was our drill leader and etc. A successful platoon guide got PFC and dress blues for graduation. We went through several before they settled on Pvt Peeve. They were called to the DIs duty hut regularly. Then the house mouse who in addition to their own stuff cleaned and straightened the DIs hut and "overheard" x amount of information. Seems that the house mouse was always a small guy. I knew a Sargent real well, who every one called Mouse. Yup, he had been house mouse.

I went back to boot camp last summer on my 50th anniversary of entering. The senior DI who gave me the grand tour said that hitting or severely cursing the privates has been made difficult and unacceptable. Can't call them Maggots, pukes or ladies or any of the other pet names the DIs of my day used on us. But that the endless PT and mind games continue and that is where the real forming of Marines occurs anyway.

Ah, the days of being called a sucker eyed bucket of puked.

What steelslayer says (both posts) +100!! I was post Vietnam so several of the DI's had combat experience, but some did not. That said, my DI's never outright hit/punched anyone, but if your M16A1 Service Rifle was not positioned correctly you may have received a knock on the butt stock right in the you know what's - OUCH! My boot camp experience was blessed and cursed. Since it was January, and because of where I lived, I was allowed to choose San Diego or Parris Island. I say why not California. Then my recruiter calls and tells me I was selected to be in a special 9 week training program evaluation. So off to San Diego I go, and at that time we had more rain in 2 weeks than I can remember. Lucky me (not), I develop pneumonia and end up in Balboa Naval Hospital for 22 days. Yikes, what a place. So my USMC boot camp experience, rather being 9-10 weeks, ended up at 16 weeks. Semper Fi and oohrah!!

If you had an m16 your way boot. Should have had to pack an M14 around all the time like it was in "The Old Corps"

LMAO.

I was Army but my Sgt was a 3 war guy,we were taught the hard way on everything. I thought that his CIB was like the MOH.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

I got issued a brand new M16A4 in the summer of 2010 at MCRD San Diego. I was in Bravo Co. Platoon 1021, won all the events besides rifle range and the final test or whatever they called it. I think half our platoon was 03’s, maybe a slight majority. Now the fleet is getting rid of m16s and even m4s. They’re equipping all the line platoons with m27s and suppressors. Times have changed, even in the 6 years I’ve been out lol.


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Heck when I did Naval boot camp in the mid 60s we marched around and drilled with Springfield 03s. Guess they did not trust Navy guys with modern weapons!

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

Phil, I enlisted in the AF, went to radio operator school, then to the RVN for 24 months with two 30 day breaks. all of that time was either with the US Army, Korean Army or my favorite, the USMC up north. 88 days at Khe Sahn. i can attest to the fighting qualites of the Marines i was with. i would not want to be on the receiving end of them. Lee

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VFW, NRA, VVA, S&WCA 1758

Yea, remember that.....
And only qualified with a .22 rifle.

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Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

Drifting a bit, but did y'all hear about the possible closing of both Marine boot camps.

Marine Corps considers closing South Carolina, San Diego recruit training depots to open new location

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Slava Ukraini!

If I remember right we all got 5 shots from a beat to death old Mossberg bolt action.

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

When drill instructor Sgt Valdivia had night duty with my platoon it was fun times for sure. After lights out he would often go close down the enlisted club. When he returned you could hear him first start in on the firewatch and thrash them on the quarter deck in drunken half English / half Spanish. If he came back and found anyone out of their rack he'd really cut loose. He probably weighed at most 125 lbs soaking wet. Was as mean as a rattlesnake. You knew that he had gotten drunk, didn't sleep more than a couple of hours, but at reveille he would be 100% squared away sober and during PT would be running circles around you without missing a lick. Most intense Marine I ever saw. He was the attack dog drill instructor for our platoon and you sure as hell didn't forget any personalized instruction he laid out on you. So to answer your question, yes R. Lee's character Hartman's portrayal of a Marine drill instructor was more fact than fiction.

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Straight shootin'
SWCA#2439

When I went in USAF in 1963 we qualified with the M1 Carbine.

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Dogs are better than people.

I don't think the instructors wanted to be anywhere near us when we qualified with the M-16 at Lackland

My son's DI had another way to constantly remind of becoming a Marine;
he wouldn't move anybody around, if a recruit washed out, he'd leave the space unoccupied, and you'd find yourself marching or training next to an empty space---just a constant reminder that you could be next.

If you can find a copy of the book "The Great Santini" read it, there is a section in it involving Boot Camp, in which a dumpster is involved.

My son spent 23 years in the Marines, I'm very proud of him, and he is a fine man!

Much the same with doing away with tanks, I detest the idea of closing Parris Island and San Diego, but can understand why they want to.


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I went to the “Lakes” in ‘65 and my DI was similar to Gunny Hartman. We got screamed at, called all sorts of names no longer allowed but I was never hit. We did march around w/those old & very heavy Springfield rifles. After boot camp I went to Hospital Corpsman A School at the Lakes then served 11 months w/a Marine rifle company in Nam. The movie’s combat scenes were pretty realistic as I remember my experiences.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Don't worry, this is a part of a 30 year plan, you won't see any crash program.

I did my basic and ait (osut)combined at Ft Benning Ga (Harmony Church) during the summer of 81. The Drill Sgt didn't hit us but I think a butt whipping would have been easier. I remember the tornado's that would hit the barracks over turning bunks and lockers, the Georgia clay and water mixed together and the countless hours spent cleaning it up. Good times

First off, I am not a Marine and did not do any military service. So, thanks to all of you who did. With that being said, I thought Lee Ermey actually was a Marine DI in the 60's in San Diego. I guess that may have helped out in the realism department. I was out there awhile back and saw some of the Seals working out on a beach when we drove by. All I can say is each and everyone of you are tough. Once again, glad they are on our side ! Great movie BTW, may just have to watch it again.

Yes,, Gunny Lee Ermy was a Marine, and a DI in real life, so he had the
experience to pull off the roll he played in the movie. He passed away
not too long ago. Correction: I said he was a Marine, but I should have
said he is a Marine. Once a Marine, always a Marine.

My DI at Lackland in 1952 was almost as foul mouthed and mean as
Ermy was in Full Metal Jacket. But not quite. I can still remember
some of the unpleasant things he yelled at me.

At a foot locker inspection he found I small soap stain on my razor
and yelled "Are you going to be a xxx xxxxxx xxxxx xxx all of your life"?

One morning he asked if anyone had a college degree. Several guys
raised their hands. He chose two and told them to report to the motor
pool. They needed 2 men to ride the garbage truck that day. So much
for volunteering.

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In Omnia Paratus

my DI had a thing about electric razors. he seen mine and threw the foot locker down the stairs.

What's this M-27 rifle mentioned?

In the USAF, I qualified on the .30 carbine and AR-15, but my basic duty items were a.38 and a night stick, with a shotgun when escorting prisoners

Rifles were issued for security duty and in combat zones. Air Police units successfully defended Ton Son Nhut air base during the 1968 Tet offensive, and some units got Army Ranger training and roved off base, ambushing NVA and VC forces before they could attack.

BTW, I'm the only guy I knew who studied knife fighting or paid big bucks for a knife.

Can's speak for Marine Boot, but I do have a funny Army basic training story.

We were on an overnight bivouac, in shelter half tents. We had been warned that there would be serious consequences if we were to lose our rifle. Many of the guys put their M16A1's in their sleeping bags with them, and had to deal with rust the next day.

I just unclipped the sling from the butt, and looped it around my upper arm, laying the rifle next to me and outside the sleeping bag. In the dark of the night I felt a tug, grabbed hold of the barrel, and made a sharp butt stroke. I heard a loud curse, and then all was quiet.

Next morning, my drill sergeant has a pretty good shiner. I did not suffer any adverse consequences, probably due to the fact that I had taken the admonition to retain my rifle seriously.

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Only a cold warrior

With a couple exceptions, the Army was hard but fair. I had come within a hair of joining the Marines as a young punk. Glad I didn't.

I went to a warbird airshow in Michigan in 2008, and Lee Ermey was there signing autographs. I got to meet him and get a photo with him...truly a nice guy, totally the opposite of Sgt. Hartman.

I also bought and got him to autograph a copy of his Mail Call SNAFU DVD...uncensored and hilarious!

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As an Army veteran I note that 90% of the horror stories about Basic Training are about the Marines, all the Marines I have talked to have said they were "greatly exaggerated." The most common form of brutality is when the overweight recruit finds he can't stuff his fat face at every meal.
Lots of stories about "Full Metal Jacket" which neither Stanley Kubrick nor R. Lee Ermey are here to refute. One says R. Lee Ermey was hired as a technical advisor but lobbied hard for the role, the other says Kubrick gave him the role after seeing him do a run-through, realized he knew what it would look like.

We had a couple of Marines in my company in boot camp. I didn't know their exact stories or what happened but I knew they weren't kicked out. Both of them said Marine Corp boot camp was much tougher physically but as far as the psychological aspect, they'd never seen anything as bad as the Coast Guard, go figure...

One of my sons is a Marine (and VERY proud of it), going on 7 years now, and has some interesting stories of boot camp.

I have a good friend that joined in the early sixties as a 16 y.o.
Local law enforcement pretty much told him to join the military or he was headed for jail. First day at boot camp, he thought he was tougher than a DI who was smaller than him. He then showed me four molars that were replaced after he got pounded. After that, 13 months in VN, and was offered an early discharge if he would do another 6 months there. He took that offer, and became a veteran at 19. He is proud of his service, but when I asked him if he had any good memories, I never heard someone say "No!" so fast.

Another "not a Marine but". I was A.F. and got out. A year or so later when my much better half decided she missed the security of the military I enlisted in the Army. Basic all over again. This time with combat training + my old MOS was filled so off to a new school I went. The Army basic was much harder (especially because I was one of the oldest guys there), and the Drills had a great time with me when they found out I was prior Air Force.

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Support Israel!

I was proud to have spent some time with "the Gunny" quite a number of years ago. An amazing guy and quite a character.

John



May he rest in peace and keep Heaven squared away...

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Private Pyle in Full Metal Jacket brought back a memory of an incident
in basic training at Lackland AFB 1952. I was on the lower level of the
barracks and the incident happened on the upper level, so I don't know
a lot of details. The guy was a real 8 ball. Always screwing up and doing
things wrong. The DI passed the word that he was not going to graduate
and if he didn't nobody else would either. One night he mysteriously fell
off the 2nd floor and landed on the concrete walk below. Last I heard
he was still in the hospital. Everyone else graduated on time.

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In Omnia Paratus

as a young teen spent a summer at a work camp for troubled teens...lift hay bales and drag cut logs..Sat mornings were call out, square up with fellow 'inmates' who had pissed you off during the week, go until the straw boss broke it up...when I went to Lackland for AF boot, thought I had landed in a boy scout camp

Face it, a lot of the anecdotes about basic
training are based on an instructors' whims
and yes childish desire to make things tough
without rhyme or reason.

It's one thing to enforce rules and even perhaps
explain why something is done. It's a problem
if after all that misery an instructor or recruit
can't say why that "rule" existed.

But then, especially when it comes to infantry,
the military sees it as cannon fodder and
especially so the Marine Corps with its shock
troops mentality. Throughout much of history
the infantry is expendable. And especially the
Marine Corps--"put 'em out in front."

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Ubi Est Mea

The first 9 years of my service was as a Marine. Boot camp at MCRD San Diego May 1955. I was a 17 year old misfit. My parents signed for me since I couldn't get along with them---or school--or life.

The tough--and I do mean tough DIs did manage to salvage me. SSgt Dohse, the senior DI had served on the German side during WW 2. He was hard as nails and could run everyone of us into the ground without breaking a sweat.

The movie did bring back a lot of memories. I learned to straighten of and fly right.

A brag here I managed to shock my Father when my parents came for my Boot Camp graduation exercise.

I did leave the Corps in 64, but wound up completing 20 as an Army CWO.

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Paul
Salome, AZ

Well done! Congratulations on the certificate, outstanding
Marine in the platoon.

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In Omnia Paratus

I was an Island Marine , and yes it was pretty real . All of us older guys have stories , here's one of mine .

When you went to the shower you had your belt around your neck so as to scrub it while showering . One night one of the guys , a New Yorker , came out dilly-bopping and whistling . Our Senior DI got a look in his eyes . He was a huge guy , about 6'2" and 280 pounds . He walked up to him and asked where he thought he was . He proceeded to grab his belt and lifted him off his feet until he passed out . He promptly dropped him ,
turned around and walked off . Told us nobody touch him , and no one did . He came to and wobbled to his foot locker . Needless to say , no one ever thought of whistling the rest of boot camp .

When I reported to boot camp in Jan. 1968, I was issued an M-14 which I carried and qualified with and upon reporting ITR I was once again issued and trained with another M-14. Fast forward to Nov. 68 and with orders to Vietnam, I was ordered to Staging Bn. for 3 additional weeks of training before crossing the pond.

Upon arrival at Staging Bn, I am issued an M-16 !!!! Never seen one before, never shot and never trained with one. It was a fast learning curve and the USMC force fed us everything we needed to know about the weapon. They sort of over did the light 55 grain projectile by informing us that when the instructor told us the light weight projectile when impacting an enemy soldiers leg it would send electronic shocks to his heart causing instant death. Oh well, I kept my rifle clean and never had any problems with it. The weapon had a chromed chamber and barrel which helped reduce jams.

Yes, boot camp could be brutal. I do believe the training, although hard, kept lot of Marines alive, including me.

The m27 IAR is the rifle the Marine Corps initially used to replace the m249 SAW squad automatic weapon used as the base of fire in a rifle team. It has a gas piston system and a free floated barrel. They are talking about and as I understand, intend to implement it as a designated marksman rifle and across the board as a regular weapon for all riflemen in a squad.


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In reading all the above, I got to wondering-- Dangrous I know

I never witnessed much of the above. We never had many foul-ups that I can remember. This was in 1962 and I believe we pretty much all enlisted. Our senior D.I. was a survivor Of Korea. Saw him once with his shirt off- looked like he had been through a meat grinder. Did that mellow him down a bit?? I dont know, but I doubt it. He never made it back from Viet Nam. question I have in reading the above. As I said, we all enlisted far as I can remember. Does any one here, in their experience feel drafted troops were treated any different than those who went in on their own?? I never had any problems myself, I knew what I was getting into, and I was just exactly where I wanted to be. Did that show in any way? I dont know, but I never fell out of anything nor did they ever break me. Any thoughts on my question?? Just wondering.

SEMPER FI!!!

All that training with the M14 and then they issue an M16.
Classic military SNAFU.

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In Omnia Paratus

I went in in August of 69. M14 in boot camp and qualified with it. Great rifle for long range. When I got to ITR we got M16s. Went to my school then the supply depot i Philadelphia, where I qualified again but with an M1 if you can believe it. Then in staging it was am M16 again. Was a computer guy so never saw any combat, just various guard duties. Back in the world at Camp Pendleton I qualified again with the M14. Always sucked at 200 meter offhand, always aced the 300 and 500 meter prone. Both the A course and the silhouette type course.