A friend's dog has run afoul of a snake, type unknown. Fang marks are about a half inch apart, and a coral snake has been seen around the house.

Symptoms seem more like a pit viper. Western Diamondback has also been seen, but is too large for that bite radius, although a different snake may be involved.

Swelling of the head is severe and we doubt that a vet will give antivenin to a dog.

If you've seen dogs bitten by snakes, what happened? If the dog recovered, how long did it take? If the dog went to a vet, what was done for the dog?

This is a Weimaraner of maybe 70 pounds and facial swelling is baseball sized. Respiration isn't severe, so I doubt a coral snake

This is a pretty general question, but all feedback is of interest.

Nothing of real value to offer...


...but, I was always trained: "How does this, or how could this affect my partner's breathing?"

If you're looking at baseball size swelling on a healthy Weimaraner sized-dog, and he has no trouble breathing, I would not be overly agitated.

Bee/wasp stings often blow their cheeks/heads up to baseball size.

The breathing is what matters. If he's not having any trouble, it's much less concern. Maybe look for unusual bruising, in the event you have hemotoxic snakes where you are, vs. neurotoxic.

But, if that's all that I was looking at, a puffy face, I'd throw him an antihistamine and keep an eye on him.

My partner? I would not sleep, I would watch him, but experienced hands can't panic, it's part of one's reputation.

He'll probably be fine.

If anything changes, be ready to move to your emergency hospital. It can't be confusion when you decide to go.

Know where that is. Know how to get there. Know who will drive and who will maintain care, comfort and control of the dog.

He'll probably be fine.

In Texas probably a copperhead. Give them a Benadryl and just keep an eye on them.....they should be fine in the AM after sleeping the be Benadryl off. My lab was bitten a couple of times and recovered fine.....she always wore two black spots where she was bitten.....good luck.

I would of been to the vet already. It breaks my heart to lose pets that I adopt that needs homes.

My son at ten years old had a headache. I was away on my job. The misses took him to the family doctor and said he was ok. By Friday night I was home and Saturday morning he went to the local clinic. The Indian doctor had a gut feeling something was wrong. Over night testing at the hospital. By morning he lost his vision. He was in the fetal position. All heck broke loose. A top brain surgeon came in. The boys brain had swelled. He had an aneurism. They gave him a shot to reduce the swelling. They operated on Monday morning. He was ten years old. Now he’s 45 yo and a pia still. What if we waited longer. Godbless the Indian doctor in the clinic. He saved my boys life, well pointed us in the right direction.

My grand dads dog was bit by a Copperhead. He said it's head swelled up like a basketball too.

It laid under the shade tree a couple days and was back to normal.

My friend's Lab/St Bernard, that was once mistaken for a Mountain Lion (Some seriously bad eyesight there) got bitten on the inside of his left rear leg by a Sidewinder. It made a huge necrotic "dent" in his thigh and it remained for the rest of his life. He had a couple of bad days at the vet and came home limping pretty badly, but I don't think anything more was done than to keep him hydrated and sedated so he wouldn't work on removing his IV. He was back to normal in a couple of weeks and for a big dog, his 13+ year lifespan wasn't negatively affected by his snake encounter.

My Beagle had a compulsion to mess with spiders and when I moved to Las Vegas from Ohio, where Black Widows just aren't seen all that much, he started getting bit by them frequently. His head would swell up tremendously and he walked and acted like he was drunk. The vet would give him some combination of Benadryl and something else, and within a couple of hours, he was acting normal and would be 100% the next day. He never learned to leave them alone, and it almost cost him dearly. I took him to the vet with his head all swollen up and he was drooling pretty badly, and a Newfoundland attacked him without warning, probably because he was acting strangely. He definitely lost that bout, but he got his shots in and the Newfie's face was permanently altered due to bites. My dog got some free stitches, and the vet was impressed at how, even when he felt bad, he still didn't give up and surrender. It was one of the few fights he lost as an adult. He had his "facehugger" move and between that and his insane screaming next to the other dog's ear, his opponents would fold quickly once they realized they couldn't get him off.

Some years ago one of my Huskys was bitten right on the face by a Western. Above the brow with about an inch between fangs.
She likely got bit the night before and I saw her the next morning. Her head looked like a Mastiff instead of the wolfie face I was used to.
Our vet was a country Texan who treated everything from cats to cows. He gave her a scrip for Prednisone and an antibiotic and said give it a week or so, and that was it.
He said that most canines tolerate Rattler/pit viper bites fairly well and usually only life threat for a very small dog or an abdominal bite into the gut.
As for your fang marks a coral snake has very small fangs by comparison and usually needs to clamp down on an extremity when it comes to larger animals. You likely would not have found the bite site as easily. Also corals are neurotoxic so the symptoms would be quite different.
So give Fido some love and enjoy a cuddle.

I took a Brittney Spaniel belonging to my Dad out Quail Hunting. He got a little far out from me, stuck his head in at the base of a Creosote bush and got bit right on the tip of the nose by a Sidewinder. His head swelled up about the size of a soccer ball for a couple of days. He gradually returned to normal. I hunted with him a year later and felt that his sense of smell wasn't up to normal. He avoided all snakes after that.

My son was walking his Dalmatian. It ran ahead into the brush. He heard a yelp and it ran back to him bleeding from to puncture wounds in the neck. Dog did moments after that.

Vet suspects the dog was bitten by a rattler/copperhead in the neck and it got a vein. Vet said he would have died no matter what my son had done.

We have had two rattlesnakes in front of our home. First one beneath a tree and the second one right at the door step, my wife almost stepped on it. Both snakes were given a demonstration of a model 629, they didn't applaud but since they lack arms or hands and their heads were vaporized we didn't mind.

Rattlesnake bites cause necrotic tissue damage to the area bitten. Rattlesnakes don't always inject venom but I sure wouldn't wait for symptoms.

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U.S. Coast Guard, retired CPO

One Benadryl for every 10 pounds the dog weighs. Swelling and discomfort should be relieved in less than 24 hours.....

70 lb canine = 7 Benadryl in one dose

Verify before blaming a talk forum for bad advice.

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triggers dog-pile egomaniacs

When I was a kid our female beagle was bitten by a snake. Not sure what kind probably copperhead or maybe small rattler, both were common where we lived. We brought her to the vet he cleaned around the bite, two small punctures right at the top base of the ear, but that was all. She was sickly for a few days with swelling of the head but healed up fine.
I hope the dog in question does well too.
Steve W

Have seen Dogs like that
Not a pretty sight, hope it gets better.
Never been bite by a snake, but a Brown Recluse did a number on my hand. Swelled to the point I couldn’t make a fist!

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

Weims are tough dogs. I know! But, venom is venom; let us know how he/she turns out and if they went to the vet, what the Dr. said. Dogs are a lot more immune to nature's offerings than people are. Have you ever seen what they eat sometimes? Love my Weimaraner; they are beautiful dogs, as all dogs are. Hope your friend's dog is okay.

Hunting dogs are usually bitten on the face as they are poking it where snakes live.

Went with my neighbor to a "desnaking" course for dogs. They had 2 rattlers set out on a 100 yd course. Rattlers were in a hardware cloth style pen. Put shock collar on dog and had owner and dog walk the course. When dog got to rattlers and stuck his nose down there he got a shock.

They moved the snakes around after the dogs walked the course the first time. Second time around and every Brittany, Springer spaniel, and all the setters caught scent of snake and avoided it.

The one Lab that out there had to be shocked 3 times before he associated pain with snake smell. The last time they turned the shock collar setting up a bit and literally had him bounce 4" in the air. He finally got it after that.

Thanks, all.

I'll pass on the info about those drugs.

My best guess is a Copperhead bite.

Our Boxer used to get bit by Copperheads on a regular basis - he just wouldn't leave them alone. His head / lips would swell up like softballs, and he was lethargic for a couple of days, then as soon as the swelling went down he was back at it looking for more to fight. Treatment seemed to make no difference, but we were watchful to make sure he hadn't tangled with a Rattlesnake. Our Lab got it one time, and he was smart enough to avoid them afterward.

A copperhead got mine once. He came in the house, wagged his tail, and fell over. He laid around for a couple days but snapped back.

I had a blue healer that was bitten near the left eye, and she did lose
the vision in that eye. She had lots of swelling on the left side of her
head. Either a copperhead or rattler, not sure which as we have both
species in this area.

Some dogs never learn. My daughters Weimaraner for some reason likes to eat bee's of every type. She goes thru a lot of Benadryl.

That sounds about right My first lab Bubba was hard headed and we could not keep him from going after nutria until the day he caught one

Brought him home with a nice ear piercing-he avoided them like the plague after that.

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Forum consigliere

When I lived on the farm, my herd dog, a Collie, was bitten on the nose by a cottonmouth. His face was horribly swollen, his breathing was labored and he experienced muscle twitching. I rushed him to the vet where he received three injections. It took a couple of days for the swelling to subside but after that he was back to normal.

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A gun has no brain.. use yours

Had a friend who raised Bassets and lived in area of heavy Copper Head populations. They got bit often, mostly on ears. He had some kind of powdered anti biotic that he used in Vaseline. Never lost a dog but some of them had tattered ears.

Before and during my return to college, I was elected chairman of the San Gabriel Valley Chapter of Quail Unlimited (Los Angeles, CA). We had several members dogs bitten by So. Pacific rattlers, a sub-species of the western rattlesnake (NOT western diamondbacks!). All survived but a couple had crippling aftereffects. One or two went to the vet for antivenin. In general, dogs are fairly tolerant to snakebite. If the dog is still alive after 24 hours, it's not likely a coral snake and a 1/2 inch between punctures seems a little big for a coral snake based on the couple have handled. Too small for a big diamondback and I doubt if the dog would have lived more than a few minutes if a Mojave. A baby rattler would have injected a relatively full dose of venom.

Overall, I tend to agree that it was most likely a copperhead, which has the "weakest" venom of North American pit vipers.

While with QU, we held a "snake avoidance" clinic to train dogs. Had to expand it to two, then three classes a year and all were sold out. We did "The Taco Bell Chihuahua" and Wendy Malick's Labradors (one about broke my finger!). Both of my dogs went through it and it saved my first GSP from being bit!

Just a few thoughts from a biologist has been an amateur herpetologist for 50 years, a professional one for two years, and published an article on snake avoidance training.

Sometimes We get a rattler around where I walk My dog. She gets a rattle snake shot at the vet every year. Don't ask Me what it is as I have no idea. You Guys might check with Your Vets.

Here in Arizona, our dogs often run into poisonous creatures. This is an early picture of our Joe (the superdog) when he was young and had just had a less-than-desirable encounter. We're not sure what it was, but we suspected a scorpion. We've had rattlesnakes, scorpions and black widows more often than we would like. Whatever this was, we were pretty sure Joe would never mess with one again!

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Thanks again, each and every one of you.

Overall, the prognosis seems hopeful.

God I hate snakes. Thanks Iggy, another image to visit me in my sleep!

I swear Iggy just looks for chances to post that picture. I dunno how many times I have seen it, but for my money he needs a good wallop with the Ban Hammer.

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NHI, 10-8.

Hope your dog gets over it.
This is Skeet , he kills every
Snake he finds so far none with
Fangs.

Attached Images

IMG_2273.jpg (175.6 KB, 49 views)

I've always liked snakes, but here I can honestly say I've never come across a poisonous one. (Another reason to live in PA!) I've grown up in Beaver Co., our camp, about 1/3 of my growing up was in Crawford Co., and now I live in Pittsburgh County. I have never, ever come across a poisonous snake...but they are here. I've just been lucky. Once every couple years a farmer or landscaper gets hit. I'll stay up here & let you warm people fight with every deadly poisonous creature in North America!
One time, Daisy, the Weim, came face to face with a garter snake. They get aggressive when cornered or pikked off. It was only about a two-footer. It lunged and she was like a cat and jumped out of its way! Didn't think she could do it, but young dogs are quicker than you think when they have a split second to see their attacker.
Those Coral snakes. Isn't there another snake with the same coloring only in different order of color? I want to say King, but that doesn't sound right.

Yes, King and Milk snakes.

And two genera of Corals. They remind me of Asiatic Kraits.

Tropical America has additional Corals.

"Red next to yellow, kills a fellow. Red next to black, venom lack,"

My Doc buddy who shares my love of Brittanys had one of his dogs get bit when he moved to his new house “on the hill”. Sent me a picture. Looked like a plastic surgeon had practiced a breast implant on the side of the dogs’s head.
He took the dog to the vet and they administered antibiotics to avert any infection activity.
Once they got the rattle snake vaccine effective enough for my vet to approve it, my dogs all got the vaccine and an annual booster. The vaccine buys you a day or two extra to get your pooch to the vet and treated.
I would not dither a minute getting my dog to a vet if it were bit by a rattler.

When I was about twelve years old I had a Pit Bull that followed me where ever I went. We lived on about 200 acres in "the country" and one day I was taking a walk through a grown over field with my Pit Bull following behind me. All of a sudden he jumped forward and pushed me aside. When I looked at him he had a copperhead hanging on his jaw. The snake had been striking at me and the dog pushed me out of the way and took the strike. He shook the snake off of his jaw and then killed it. I took him the half mile to our house. His head swelled up and he got lethargic. The next day he was fine. I loved that dog. He died of natural causes about six years later. Dogs are tough.

I had a lab that was bitten by an unknown viper of some sort. The bite was on her back about 5” away from the tail root.

She lived for about another year, but the vet suspected that the bite triggered a form of cancer and resulting kidney failure.

I’d get the dog to the vet as soon as is practical.

The dog got to the vet and got antihistamines and antibiotics. Vet said it'll probably survive.

And the bill was much less than expected, as both the doc and the owner are Texas Aggies...

Sorry for the offense. It’s gone.

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Eccentric old coot

That ONLY applies in North America. In Central and South America some corals don't follow the "rule" (e.g Wiid's coral snake).

Not a Texas Aggie. That being said both my sister in law and her children are Aggies and I must say their esprit de corps is absolutely remarkable and I mean for life. If you are a graduate of Texas A&M you are in the brother/sisterhood for life and believe me Aggies take care of each other!!!! I've seen it first hand with my niece and nephew getting jobs, etc. The Aggie nation is NOT a myth!

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Forum consigliere

I'm a bit late for my advice to be helpful, but vets most definitely will give antivenin to a dog. One of my wife's three little yappers got bitten on the nose by a small diamondback last year. I was at work, and she hauled her off to the emergency vet clinic where the dog was given antivenin and a steroid injection as well. She recovered just fine and is no worse for the experience. My wallet is $800 lighter, though.

A friend has had several larger dogs bitten by diamondbacks over the years. None of them were treated by a vet, and all survived after being sick and swollen up for a couple of days.

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Or something like that . . .

My cat got bit on the paw...it swelled up horribly. Vet gave him some pain killers and sent us home. There was a young dog that was also there at the same time. He got bit in the face twice...He got anti venom and a pain killers. Poor guy was howling for a long time. He was spending the night. I'm not sure how much exactly, but from what I gathered that anti venom shot is very expensive.

I was leading the pack string out of the Trinity Alps Wilderness area one year and tied up at the pack station at the Hobo Gulch Trailhead. The folks that ran the pack station there had a little Australian Shepherd that had been bitten on the face by a Western rattlesnake. This little dog weighed about 50 pounds and its head had swollen to about the size of a volleyball. They slipped four Tylenol down its throat and hoped for the best. The little guy laid around the pack station for a few days but then recovered completely.

You have to remember that a snake's venom is programmed to kill things like rats and mice, not dogs, and from most of the stories I've heard, most dogs seem to recover.

Not so for horses, however. Horses are usually bitten when they're out grazing and accidentally bump into one and are bitten on the nose. Their nostrils swell up and inasmuch as horses can't breathe through their mouths like a dog, they die from suffocation, not from the venom.

Anyway, it sounds like your friend's dog has a real good chance of making it.

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Pack light and cinch tight.

WHOA!!! Wait just a minute!!! I didn't get to see it!! I've always felt that our ol' pard Iggy had impeccable taste when it came to pictures. C'mon on, Iggy. Post it again for the inquiring minds who've got to know!

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Pack light and cinch tight.

I agree I don’t like snakes but Iggys post is not offensive. And I am tired of everybody being offended.

My families Beagle got nailed on the back of his tongue by a Mojave green rattlesnake about a month ago. We rushed him to the vet and he spent 4 days there. Not sure how much antivenin he was given but he made it though everything. Vet bill was over $6,000 and it took him about two weeks to get back to normal.

I spent my early , 1952-1959, summers on a farm in South Texas that was thick with rattlesnakes. Whenever one of the dogs got bit and they got bit often, my uncle would give it large doses of Penicillin that he kept in on hand for the farm animals. Seems to me most survived.

For some reason, snake venoms are particularly dangerous to primates. Maybe a Red Queen phenomenon (AKA Evolutionary Arms Race)?

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I was not offended. Doing so requires a lot of effort in general and probably would require conduct that would in fact result in being banned.

It's just that Iggy has posted that pic a few times and judging by the responses, I am not the only one who looks at it in horrified fascination and still cannot pull their eyes away. I was flipping him some ... grief. It's good size pile of writhing rattlesnakes.

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NHI, 10-8.