There's a new Bonnie & Clyde movie coming out. It has Hillary Duff as Bonnie and some guy I can't remember as Clyde. Physically, they look real good for these parts. Can this chick shed her teenage image and play a fatalistic criminal? I don't know. I've always wanted to see an accurate movie of these two. Not that super entertaining pile of BS with Warren Beatty. That movie made a joke of Frank Hamer and his family sued the producers. Why not a movie of Hamer himself. On his desthbed he told his son and brother he killed fifty two men and one woman. All 'sraight up" (justified) or something like that.

There's a new Bonnie & Clyde movie coming out. It has Hillary Duff as Bonnie and some guy I can't remember as Clyde. Physically, they look real good for these parts. Can this chick shed her teenage image and play a fatalistic criminal? I don't know. I've always wanted to see an accurate movie of these two. Not that super entertaining pile of BS with Warren Beatty. That movie made a joke of Frank Hamer and his family sued the producers. Why not a movie of Hamer himself. On his desthbed he told his son and brother he killed fifty two men and one woman. All 'sraight up" (justified) or something like that.

I used to have a nice out of print biogorphy of Hammer. It was great, Its title is "I am Frank Hammer" Get one if you can!

Wyatt,
That's the way I heard it told too.
His son and brother Harrison was at his bedside, the son asked his father if he ever regretted having to use his gun so much...Captain Hamer replied,'Boys I killed 52 men and one women...and I killed them alright and I sleep every night knowing I did right.'

That's to the best of my recollection,

Standing-Left to Right;
Prentiss Oakley, Ted Hinton, Bob Alcorn, Maney Gault
Kneelling-Left to Right;
Frank Hamer, Henderson Jordan



Hamer's V-8



In 1934 the retired Capt. Hamer was hired as a Special Investigator for the Texas prison system to track down gangsters Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow. The notorious outlaws had killed more than a dozen law enforcement officers and unarmed citizens in a crime spree spanning several states. The Texas prison system became involved when the Barrow gang broke into a State prison, freed a gang member and killed an officer. After a three-month search, Hamer and Texas and Louisiana law enforcement officers ambushed and killed the criminals near Gibsland, Louisiana

Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

...nice New Service she's got there...

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A Country Boy Can Survive

I know that got me too! Hammer never physicaly met either bonnie or clyde prior to the day of the shootout. Although he did know the familys they were from he said.
Why does hollywood always lie when the truth is better and more interesting?

In the picture, I believe the second from left is Ted Hinton. I have his book. Prentiss oakley is believed to have fired the first shot into Clyde's head,killing him before the rest opened fire. One thing the movies never tell is that Bonnie was almost fatally burned when Clyde drove off a downed bridge into a ravine. The car caught fire and Bonnie was trapped until some neighbors helped Clyde and W.D.Jones lift he car off her. Her leg was burned through to the bone in places. She was still recovering when the Platte City Mo. shootout took place.

BR

I don't know why they have to lie. Take that movie Wild Bill, for example. Someone thought his story was interesting enough to make a movie and they were right. But they couldn't help themselves. They had to change it. Too bad,too. Jeff Bridges was fantastic as WBH. I just watch the beginning every once in a while 'cause he shoots people real good. Then it's back to the computer to BS with all of you.

Captain Hamer's family sued the movie company for the way the Captain was portrayed in the Bonnie and Clyde film. The issue was settled out of court in 1971 for an unspecified amount of money.
While I understand that movies are not made to portray history, they are made to make money, I agree with this suit. They should not have tried to make a man like Hamer look like a bumpkin. He had a bunch of faults but being a fool wasn't one of them.
It is interesting that there were four Hamer brothers, Estell, Frank, Harrison and Clinton, I believe. All of them lived pretty adventurous lives. Estell was involved in the 1911 Revolution and became Senior Captain in the Rangers, at a later period than Frank. Harrison was a Ranger for quite awhile and arrested a couple of the Newton boys some pretty successful train and bank robbers in the 1930s.

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Guero

Just a side note, this is the officer that was picked-up by the Barrow Gang...



Su Amigo,
Dave

__________________
"IN GOD WE TRUST"

In the great Texas Ranger gu book "From Texas And The Old West" they show pictures of Harrison Hamers .41 Colt SAA. Standard gun. and Franks fancy engraved pearl handled 45 and I think 'Ol Lucky, too. This book is all pictures of Texas Ranger and southwestern lawmen's Colts. Hamer had a triple lock and carried a Colt 38 Super 1911 when he killed those two little twirps Bonnie & Clyde, which alot of you already know. My fav. rifle is a Rem. Model 81 in 300 Savage. Alot of clanging around when you shoot that one.

Wyatt, here's alittle something about Harrison Hamer,



One of Harrison’s most noteworthy cases occurred when he was a Mounted Customs agent. The outlaws involved were Jess Newton and his brothers Joe, Dock, and Willis. These four men had robbed and burglarized banks in the United States and Canada for years before their career ended—at least officially—robbing a train near Chicago, Illinois. After this last heist, the brothers were hunted down and taken one by one.
It was believed that several of the Newton brothers were living in Mexico across the Rio Grande River from Del Rio, Texas. Harrison knew that the boys loved rodeos and suspected that one or more of the them might not be able to resist as big an event as the July 4th rodeo in Del Rio. Keeping a close eye on the crowd, Harrison saw Jess and his wife enter the stands, and he patiently waited his chance. His persistence paid off when Jess left the stands and unsuspectingly walked past the former Ranger. Harrison grabbed Jess by the arm and, undoubtedly with the aid of his ever-present six-shooter, informed Newton that he was under arrest. Escorting Jess below the grandstand, Harrison asked one of the local cowboys to watch the ever-elusive bandit. He returned to the stands and sent word to Newton’s wife that her husband needed to see her. As she walked past Harrison, he also arrested her.

Su Amigo,
Dave

__________________
"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Henderson Jordan was Bill Jordans Uncle.

Bob

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Bob
KDØQCE

Thanks, Dave. Great story. There was a not so bad movie called The Newton Boys. I was surprised I never heard of them before that movie since I'm interested in that stuff. By the way, you make pretty good holsters. When you make the style that's stiched in the front as well as the back, do you incorporate some kind of sight track like Safariland does?

Keith44spec. ,Dave, I have admired your talent of customizing revolvers, making your own very well made holsters and your hunting lifestyle. I must ask ,with all due respect, what do you do or what did you do for your livelyhood? Thanks for your consideration of my question. All my best,Joe.

This post ain't big 'nuff fer the two of us! Hey, Hi'jack away , Dave. Any excuse to see those rigs.

Gentlemen, thank you both for your consideration. That is the reason that I very much enjoy spending time with you and the other great members of the forum. It is truly a good place to unwind and "contemplate that which brings us pleasure and enjoyment", again, thanks and all my best, Joe.

Damnn I Love this place

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SWCA #2306
DAV in honor of POP

+1K
Great thread.....

Well now, fellas. Whatta these boys have in common?



Why hats, of course. Real men -- and these boys look pretty darn real, ya gotta admit -- wear hats!

Yep, a suit & tie and don't forget the hat.

Wyatt,
Check out the below websites about the Remington Model 8 and 81. Hamer had a couple Model 8's. 2 (one of Hamer's personal guns) were used to dispatch Bonnie and Clyde.

http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com/

http://vintagesemiautorifle.pr...rds105.com/index.cgi

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War Eagle! '10 BCS & '13 SEC

Looking at that pic of Harrison Hamer, I think he could have carried a 1911 for a BUG in that hat! Maybe two.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

Dave, those are beautiful holsters. You should go into buisness, I'm sure you could get backlogged just from the members of this board. I know I'd love to have one for my Commander. Did you make the belts also?
Great stories also.

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Danny A.

Now that we are becoming a socialist country maybe the truth about Bonnie and Clyde can be told. An enemy of the state must be stopped.

That was joke, and I think I am saying, I wonder what the movies will look like n a few years if Obama gets his way.

The Springfield MO PD has a Thompson SMG that was captured from the Clyde/Barrow gang sometime before their demise. It's not clear if it was actually used by one of them or not, but I have personally shot it. Now I have shot several tommy guns, but shooting that one just seemd neater

Yes, suits and ties! Imagine waiting in the bushes overnite, in the rain, with bugs of all kinds biting you everywhere, in a suit and tie. These guys did. Probably in the same suits in the picture. Of course the dead Clyde was also wearing a suit. No black SWAT suits with holsters at the knee for these guys! Folks in the 30's & 40's always wore suits and ties. Just look as old movies of crowds at baseball games. Almost all in suits and ties. I'm sorta glad we got away from that, but I still get sick when I see jeans and tee ***** with a basball cap at a funeral or wedding! Just old I guess.

BR

Beautiful leather work. Looks like your living the dream!

For many years after his retirement from the Dallas Sheriff's Dept, Ted Hinton owned the Hinton Motor Lodge in Irving TX. It was just across the highway from the location of the current Texas Stadium where the Cowboys played. I went in there many times when I first moved to town. I can't recall for sure but I believe that he died in the late '60's or early '70's. I often wondered what happened to his guns. If I'm not mistaken, he had a son but I have lost track of the family.

Bob

Bob,

Here's a fair photo of Bob Alcorn & Ted Hinton,



Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Dave,

In your first picture, Hinton looks a lot like Jelly Bryce. I think that the "George Raft" look was cultivated by the lawmen of the era. (Of course, Raft came by it honestly since he was really type cast in his roles).

I'll get the old photo of Officer Salter off to you this weekend.

Thanks,
Bob

35rem, great Rem. 8 & 81 sites. Those old posters show the reasons I like these rifles (mine's a stock 81 300 Sav). They came out at the tail end of the wild west but they are semi-auto. Transitional shootin' irons like Colt New Services and early Savage 99's fall into that catagory. That's why I like those so much, too. I paid $200 for mine (the 81) about six years ago. Right before they skyrocketed like everything else. Did you ever shoot one these? There's so mechanical banging around when that barrel recoils. Seems to kick more than my 99's.

I've mentioned it before, but one of the most historic guns in my safe is a model 8 .35 Rem. that was my dad's deer rifle. It was given to him by the "bag man" for JEH and the G-men when they ransomed Charles Urschel and captured Machine Gun Kelly.

Bob

I have a model 8 in 35 Remington. It's a neat old gun.
Same pattents as the Remington Model 11 (or Browning Auto-5).

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War Eagle! '10 BCS & '13 SEC

I found a few copies , but they aren't cheap But I am expecting to get a chunk of change for my SSD claim , although I don't know how much I'll be able to spend on "entertainment"

Do any of you fine gentlemen know of any more books about "real" gunmen, particularly handguns? It doesn't matter if they were good or bad, In fact I've been looking for something on Verne Miller for a very long time.

And it has to be non-fiction too, and nothing by Cooper, Jordan, Askins etc, etc.

Thanks guys, I'm trying to wean myself off the internet gun forums.

Jellybean, I also am a big reader on the subject. Another good book is "a cowboy detective" by charles siringo. He was a pinkerton detective all over the west and it is his auto biagraphy. I will post others later.

Last summer, my girlfriend was doing the Bonnie Parker pose in front of a friend's 1932 Packard. That is a Smith & Wesson K-22 that she is holding.

Please keep posting to let us know about your progress.

Check out "Triggernometry", by Eugene Cunningham. It was written in 1941. He interviewed gunfighters still alive, about them and their contemporaries.

Has chapters on
Bill Longley
John WestleyHardin
Ben Thompson
Billy Breakenridge
Billy the Kid
Dallas Stoudenmire
Jim Gillett
Long-Haired Jim Courtright
Ranger Captain John R. Hughes
Bass Outlaw
Wild Bill Hickok
Sam Bass
John Slaughter
Captain Bill McDonald
Butch Cassidy
Tom Horn and
General Lee Christmas
Lots of photographs and the last chapter is quotes from various gunmen talking about holsters and gun mods and how fast people really were.

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I always take precautions

feralmerril, I've heard his name before but don't have anything about him. I've found some copies of his book and they are affordable, he's on the list. Thank you.

keith44spl, I read your post on D. A. Bryce and everything else I could find on him, including his biography by Ron Owens. My use of "Jellybean" is no coincidence. It's a shame that people like him are unknown until after their death, but then that's the way they want it. Not like the ones I refer to in my signature line.

Alpo, I already have it, and it is a very good book. In fact it's been awhile since I read it and will probably be rereading it again, along with some others.

mjr, I got that, that's a good one.

Siringo was born in south texas in 1855. He first was a cowboy then did 22 years as a pinkerton man. He was all over the country, mexico and I belive even in south america. Did a lot of investigating on mine/union wars besides bank jobs, train robberys, rustling etc. Its a large good book. I have to read it again but I think he even lived to be a early adviser in the movie industry. He crossed paths with many famous western charactures. Talks about his guns too.

Jellybean, try these books; "Luke Short" by Wayne Short..."John Wesley Hardin" and "Pat Garrett" by Metz..."George Scarborough" and "Bat Masterson" by DeArment. "Gold Dust and Gunsmoke" by Boessenecker (My favorite that is choke full of gunfights that you never heard about that make the OK Corral fight look like a game of tiddlywinks. This is all about California violence during the goldrush).

feralmerril, Charley Siringo sounds like an interesting character, I see he was involved in the pursuit of Billy the Kid and that might be where I'd heard of him. It looks like his book is available in audio form too, but reading is half the fun so I'm going to get a print version. If I get approved that is...

keith44spl, Is there any books about, or references on, Captain Gonzaullas? I'm going to do a google search on him as soon as I log off of here.

Wyatt Burp, That looks like a mother lode, if I can find copies available. And since I've heard of the authors I should. I've read John Wesley Hardins autobiography and really enjoyed it, especially the way he makes all his shootings sound so "justified". Thanks a lot, I'm going to go do some searching.

keith44spl, found a book by Brownson Malsch, any others? Thanks.

The book by Malsch is: "Lone Wolf" Gonzaullas, Texas Ranger. It's a good one with a good number of pictures of his guns.

Bob

Another couple of books that you might keep an eye out for deal with the capture of "Machine Gun" Kelly and the story of the kidnapping of Tulsa oilman Charles Urshel in 1933.

CRIMES' PARADISE written in 1936 and VOICES FROM ALCATRAZ written in 1947 are both by E. E. Kirkpatrick. Kirkpatrick was a close friend of Urshel and was involved in his ransom. The books give a first person account of the events and document much about the Texas Ranger's work and the early days of Hoover and the FBI.

Bob (My uncle was married to Kirkpatrick's daughter.)

keith44spl, thanks for the info, I did a search on Captain Gonzaullas and found some info, and a couple interesting sites, on-line.

bettis1, thanks for the leads. I'm going to check on avaialability and add them to my list. I was never a fan of "gangster movies" but reading the actual accounts of them are a whole different story. Didn't this thread start on that note?

Wyatt Burp, I found one copy of Wayne Shorts book on Amazon.com. If you happen to have a copy of that one laying around you might want to lock it up in a safe place.

Jelly, I have a paperback copy of the Luke Short book. Got it in, appropriatly, Tombstone. It's a good one. I'll loan you mine for a while if you want. BTW, when reading this book in Tombstone, I stood in the exact spot Short shot Storms. This was very cool. If interested let me know here. My e-mail ain't on in my personals I think.

Jellybean, yep. My e-mail IS there.

Thanks Wyatt, I went back to Amazon to see what the difference between your book and theirs was that would make theirs worth the $155.00 price tag. I had noticed it was a paperback too but hadn't paid attention to the copyright or publication dates. By "collector" they must have been referring to the fact that the author signed it, I've seen them get more for these but not that much! Anyway thanks for the loan offer but I found their publishers web page and the book can be ordered new at a very reasonable price.

Interesting story too, I've always wanted to travel out west but it doesn't look like it's going to happen.