I'm trying to fix an old lamp that has three sockets/bulbs. The switch has four positions: 1) one bulb on, 2) two bulbs on, 3) three bulbs on, and 4) all bulbs off. (Since I was not able to get position 3 to work, and could not find any break in the wiring, I decided to try to replace the switch.)

Not being an electrician, my thought was to just copy the existing wiring protocol. But they've changed the colors on me!

Here is what I am looking at. Old switch that I am replacing:



Here is my new replacement switch:



So, which colors on the new switch correspond to which colors on the old switch?

Hep me out here, guys and gals!

Standard practice is Black is hot (line) and Red and Blue are switch legs (your old switch's grey and white).

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

What was the neutral line (from wall plug-in power cord or romex)
connected to?

It looks like it was mis-wired to begin with.

A four-position switch with only three wires coming from the switch, it's gonna be tough to get all three bulbs going independently.

Thanks for the comments, guys.

So I sent the pix to the manufacturer and asked them the question. This is what I got back:





Re Steve's question, "What was the neutral line (from wall plug-in power cord or romex) connected to?," I think it was connected to the original switched black wire, meaning that I think both wires if the standard electrical cord coming out of the wall were connected to the single black wire going into/coming out of the original switch. Or is that impossible?

(I unwrapped the old, cloth electrical tape from each of the connections before photographing, after photographing I noticed that one of the strands of wire from the wire, seen in the upper right of the photograph, coming out of the wall was loose...)

Then again, the mfr's advice of "all of your neutrals will tie together with the neutral incoming" seems to refer to Steve's "neutral line." But where are the other neutrals?

Okay, given the above, whatta I do, guys?

To me that looks like a fire waiting to happen. I would start with all new hardware.

If you get it to work I would only use it on a circuit protected with AFCI outlet or breaker. AFCI (arc fault circuit interrupter) a circuit breaker or outlet that breaks the circuit when it detects the electric arcs that are a signature of loose connections in home wiring.

good luck!

Appreciate the advice.

Well, I tend to be a careful guy, which is why I'm posting here looking for guidance.... Not in favor of risking burning the house down...

The lamp is one of a pair. The other is working as it should. Maybe I'll take a look at the taped up wiring in that one for comparison purposes.

If it was wired incorrectly from the git-go, it sure lasted a long time....

After looking on the web, I don't think it works the way the Op thinks it works.

Bulbs two and three work together and bulb one is independent.



So we know a few things from the picture

The spot I have marked as Hot has the striated wire on it, striated is usually neutral. You don't switch the neutral. A mistake or a switched neutral either way it can be fixed now.

We know the neutral connection because each bulb needs a neutral connection so the point where one wire from each bulb all connects is the neutral tap, place the striated wire from the power cord with the other three.

So trying to decode the cryptic message from the OEM, why they didn't circle with wire with the switch wire color is beyond me and they call the other wires HOT, anyway.

The old switch is clearly marked L, 1, 2, if the new has these marking it easy. L is line or incoming power, 1 bulb one and 2 bulbs two and three.

So it seems that the new switch is Black is the line, Red is Bulb one andBlue is bulb two and three

Make good connections with wire nuts...

Are you SURE that is a 4 position switch?
Post a pic of the plug on the cord. Post a pic of the bulb sockets. Wait a few, and I'll draw you a wiring diagram.

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Thanks, wheelgun 28. Here is the new switch:



Easy to see the L, 1 and 2.

Re "The spot I have marked as Hot has the striated wire on it," it seems to me that both wires are covered in striated plastic. I don't discern a difference between the two...

Re how the lamp functions, I just checked the operation of the lamps twin, which is working fine:

Looking down on it from the top, the three light bulbs form a triangle.

• When all lights are off, turn the switch once and the bottom left corner lightbulb turns on.

• Turn it a second time, and the bottom left corner light is turned off, and top corner light bulb and — a split second later — the bottom right corner bulb turns on. Two bulbs are now on, top and bottom right of the triangle.

• Turn the switch a third time, and the bottom left corner light turns on so that all three lights are on.

Turn it a fourth time, and all lights are off.

---------------

Lee, Amazon calls it a "3-Way, 4 Position, 2 Circuit Rotary Switch." Re pic, here ya go (this is the dismembered lamp, not the one that is working.):

Here ya go. CRUDE.......

Attached Images

IMG_0343.JPG (75.8 KB, 271 views)

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Looks good, The operation is about what I thought it should be more or less. The original write-up I took it to read the bulbs worked independently. We have the sequence of operation down

So, the cord identification. My writing was too vague and I apologize. The wire I am talking about is the brown supply cord.

You see in the photo of the plug one the brown flat cord. One wire has stripes and the other is smooth. Usually, the smooth one is the hot leg and the striped one is neutral. However, your plug is not polarized as both prongs are the same size and can be flipped in the wall outlet. In this case, I guess it doesn't matter what you put where. If it were a polarized plug the wide blade is the neutral connection.

I am far from an expert on lamps or even home wiring but do lamps come with nonpolarized plugs? Does it even matter, I guess it could under some circumstances but this is thread drift...

Let's see the lamp all set up and working!

I would recommend buying a cheap new extension cord to use on the lamp. You can find them in white, brown, and sometimes black. The male plug end will have one wide spade (prong) and one narrow spade. The wide spade will only go into the wide (NEUTRAL) slot on the receptacle.
When you connect it to the switch (HOT wire), make sure you use the wire that is connected to the NARROW spade. That ensures that you are switching the line (the HOT wire). The plug you have now can be plugged in either way, so it is possible to be switching (turning on/off) the neutrals. I do not like to switch the neutrals.

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

So your switch goes:
Off
1
2
both
off?

wire lamp 1 to wire 1
wire lamps 2&3 to wire 2
tie all neutrals together (they should go to the shells not the center pin)
Appears how it was done originally (your pic is missing the neutral to the cord)

Done

__________________
SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

Doesn't really matter unless the shell is grounded or you're changing a bulb with the juice on and touch the base

Phased plugs are pretty recent, people dealt with reversed neutrals for over a century.

__________________
SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

I gave up on mine and installed a dimmer switch with 50x100x150 bulbs.

Looking like new three wire cord should be used with metal fixture.
Prob no house grounded outlets when lamp was made.
Drill and tap fixture, use 10/32 tap and ring sta-kon for ground.
You can purchase in line AF/GF device. Used to update older eq.

Ah, posted below before I saw the posts after Lee's. Lemme read those and try to digest.

------

Okay, fellas, really appreciate all the help. I am gonna get a cheap extension cord as suggested and come back to this.

(Part of my issue is I am partially color blind, so I keep asking my wife "what color is this?!" Or, I may just be really electrically, uh, challenged.)

If one of you could correlate Lee's chart to the photo, I mean write on the fresh photo below what color wire (and/or L, 1 and 2) from the new switch goes where on the lamp wires, that would be great... Please assume I have a new electrical plug and cord with one wide spade and one narrow spade.)

Or the hot wire somehow makes contact with the metal frame.
This makes the entire metal structure hot, even possibly with the lamp off. We all know what happens next...

The whole polarized plug business was so they can use the neutral wire as a ground in the appliance and this saves them from using a three-wire cord and plug.

I am not an appliance person or a residential electrician.

Does a modern-made metal lamp have a grounded frame?

I know industrial versions do but residential, I have no idea.

In over 10 years on the board, I’ve learned not to second guess Lee.

Having said that, I’ll offer my thoughts... With modern wiring, black is power and white is common. I’ve never seen a fixture wired like that, but I suspect your power cord is non-polarized (both plug in tabs are the same size).

If that lamp were mine I’d spend the extra $15 and replace all the sockets and the internal wiring. I’d make a diagram of the wiring and duplicate it. Use wire nuts on the connections.

Everything is straight forward, except the white/grey, red/blue connections. You’ve got a 50/50 chance of guessing correctly. If you guess wrong, you won’t take down the grid. The switching sequence won’t be correct, but exchanging the connections should resolve the issue.

I’d probably also get a new grounded power cord, drill a hole in the bottom plate and use a self tapping screw to ground the fixture.

I’d also advise not using that while standing in the bath tub!

__________________
"I also cook."

It really doesn't matter what color goes where. Electricity is more color blind than you are.

What does matter is black goes to the narrow spade on your new cord

One not black lamp wire from the old switch goes to one of the not black wires on the new switch

The two lamps on the other not black old switch wire go to the other not black wire on the new switch

The three wires that are not connected to the switch get connected together and go the the wide spade on the new cord.

Voila, it's phased.

__________________
SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

Hey! I like that explanation!

On the switch, L goes to the new wire with the thin prong (smooth wire

On the switch 1, goes to the first bulb on the bottom that has only two connections

On the switch 2, goes to the two bulbs ties together

Where one wire comes from each bulb this connects to the other wire from the cord attached to the wide prong (grooved wire)

Thanks, wheelgun28. That sounds straightforward.

To answer each part of that individually---

That is correct. However, IF the neutrals are switched, the shell (that is the threaded cup the bulb screws into) WILL always be hot unless you unplug the lamp. That can be inconvenient when the plug is behind the sofa or the bookcase. It really is not a big deal, but I just hate switching neutrals.




Correct again, but you DO know that it makes the light bulb run backwards, and it absorbs light and makes the room darker. You DO know that, dontcha?

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

OH! I was so busy pickin on del I forgot your requested pic-

Attached Images

A20585-F5-8-E8-E-407-D-A57-A-A0-FE1721-E1-E0.jpg (74.9 KB, 210 views)

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

That's great, Lee! Thanks!

I'll post a picture of it in it's functioning — fervently hope! — beauty.

Have a fire extinguisher?

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Note, a floating neutral (i.e. not connected to the neutral bus in the box somehow) WILL be at line voltage if the hot is energized.

Amen!
The latter would cut into the incidence of house fires and the profits of electricians.

__________________
SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

Whelp, Amazon delivered the extension cord today, so it was once more into the breach for yours truly:

Logged onto the forum, retrieved the thread, reread the step-by- step instructions you guys provided, and, referring back to delcrossv's, wheelgun28's, and Lee's Dick-Jane-Spot labelled photo throughout, gingerly began by attaching the new switch oriented at the same angle as the old:



Cut and hooked up the wires, one by one, until it was done:



Put the lamp back together, screwed in some light bulbs, plugged in the cord, and, the moment of truth: I switched it on... It works! Ran through all the positions.



Yay! Yep, it works just as originally intended, and just as its undamaged twin does.

By gum, I'm — with a little help from my friends — a genius!

(So I called my wife over to have a look. "See! I fixed your lamp, Sweetheart! Bet you're pretty darn impressed with my insane electromechanical skills, huh?!"

My wife says, "That's very nice dear, but, you know, actually I never use more than one light bulb in that lamp...")

Outstanding! When I do electrical work I call the utility to take me off and grid for a while and have the fire department on speed dial when I am reconnected.

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John. SWCA #1586

No wire nuts or crimp sleeves or solder???
Shame on you. You need something to keep the connection TIGHT. Never put that much trust in tape.

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Wail, I did copy the original knot in the wire on the inside of the lamp. The wire from the wall goes through a hole in the lamp base, and knot is inside the lamp base, so that no way it can be pulled back out through the hole. Top of the lamp is bolted to the base. So, I am gonna call it good!



Pic is of the original knot.

Had to enlarge the hole in the lamp base to get it through 'cause the newer, extension cord wire, was thicker than the original.

I'm declaring victory!

And a short time to get right with The Lord!

Robert

__________________
Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

That brings to mind the old electrician's joke-
When asked if he had done his work well enough, the electrician replied: "Sure, I don't sleep here."

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett