http://s261.photobucket.com/pl...l.flv&fs=1&os=1&ap=1

This is proof that Pit Bulls are what you make them.

http://s261.photobucket.com/pl...l.flv&fs=1&os=1&ap=1

This is proof that Pit Bulls are what you make them.

What a great video! I've said it for years, there are no bad dogs only bad owners. I've got 2 collies 1 begale and a Yorkie. They all get along because they know that's what I want. Dogs want and crave leadership. If we make our dogs understand that we care for and protect them they will trust us and follow our leads without hesitation. Dogs are one of Gods greatest gifts to us. The cat is cool too.

I agree 100%. I volunteer for a shelter and have seen some really great pits/pit mixes! They are very smart dogs...but if they're improperly trained they can do a LOT of damage. How many nasty, yappy little Chihuahuas and the like have you seen? What damage can they do....put a hole in your pantleg? A bad pit can kill a human.

I have to state that I am not a fan of pit bulls, not that they are bad, its just that the majority of owners MAKE THEM BAD.. untrained, they cause a lot of damage, the bad owners are the ones that should be exterminated

Not untrained the bad ones are ABUSED. Dogs don't need to be trained to be "good". Once a "human" abuses them they distrust and are feafull of us and lash out at the 1st sign of percived danger. I've dealt with plenty of "bad" dogs with only a piece of 2' X 2' cardboard to fend them away. I've never been bitten because I graner their trust before I get within their space. Dogs are like 2 year olds show me an evil 2 year old and I'll you bad parents.

Hot Damn....a pitbull thread. We haven't had one of these in a coons age!!!
I'm gonna get me a beer - this ought to be a good evening to stick around the forum and stir the pot

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Forum consigliere

damn i just deleted what I really wanted to say

Neighbor has an UNTRAINED pit, kept outdoors in an open yard with a fence dividing my yard from theirs.
Dog gets no attention.
If I am anywhere near the fence she comes running and slams into the fence, And then procedes to bark/snarl and bite at the fence.
I go right to the fence and feed her treats, Been doing that since she was a pup. She loves me when I am feeding her, But 1 min later she's back to the crazy dog again.
I fear one day she will realize she can clear the fence and get shot be me....
VERY fearful dog.
Peter

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Need 1/2 moon Chiefs special

Video don't mean a thing, let a stranger walk in
and this mouse turns to a rino.

Pitt bulls are two seperate animals in one.
Neither one can controle the other.
They were created for one purpose only.

It was in the news this week that one of the military bases in NC (can't recall which, several were mentioned in the article) has outlawed pit bulls in military housing areas. There was a fatality involving a three year old child. I wonder why you seldom read about this happening with a Collie?

There were two pit/black lab mix, brother and sister wandered in my life last fall. Strays that were likely dropped off or abandoned. They were likely abandoned. I had two dogs die last year, so I kept them. They are a handful, but really a blessing. They were luckier than most strays. Didn't look decimated.

Off topic, my wolf/dog showed up two years ago dragging a leash with a choke chain. Befrore I could rescue them, he tried to kill some small strays that were abandoned. Oh yea, once the male pit/lab mix tried to protect a small dog from his attacts by making himeself a "doggie" shield. Never thought altruism existed in dogs.

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9tenz

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You stole my thunder ALJ-28. You are right on. That video is cute and cuddly, but that cat and dog could have a chicken lunch in a New York minute.

I too am a "dog guy". I understand dogs. Different breeds have different behaviors that are just part of the breed. They can be sweet and lovable...or they can kill you.

We've had these posts here before and it has lead to heated arguments between those that will defend their pitt bull as being a pussy cat, and those that say they will rip the head off any animal at the drop of a hat.

The pitbull is a dangerous dog to have around children and other people. I also like lions, tigers and bears...but not on the floor with my granddaughter! You are playing a game if you think otherwise. Let's hope it just doesn't turn around and bite you on the butt.

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G.P. Charlie

No it's not, that's just plain dumb to say.

Clearly different breeds have different characteristics and strengths and weaknesses. And yes Pitts are a more aggressive breed.

Emory

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Hard To Kill

Chows are a breed that can get testy at times.
I remember my dad got one years ago when I was
about in the 2nd grade.
It didn't last too long. Very aggressive, and
was constantly ripping something to shreds.
It was usually clothes that were hanging on the
clothes line.
They say a Chow will only really obey one
master. And from what we saw, I'd say that is
pretty close to true.
The dog would listen to my dad, but everyone
else in the house was basically fair game
as far as the dog was concerned.
He'd chase the rest of use around the yard
nipping at our heels.
And when he got tired of that, he'd go eat
some clothes. I think my mother had a large
part in the dismissal of the dog..

I knew a girl years ago that had a Chow/Husky
mix. But it was pretty friendly. I think it
acted more like a Husky, and it also looked
more like one. Only it's tongue really had the
Chow look to it.

My wife is an SVU Detective on a big city PD. She is also a real dog person, having had a tracker/sniffing dog as her partner for 10 years. She was attacked by a pit 2 years ago, he suprised her and knocked her down, she is 100 pounds not that much less than the dog. The dog locked onto her knee, and didn't let loose till she gave it a real whack between the eyes with her 20oz blackjack. While the dog was getting his eyes uncrossed, she used her M36 and 2 158 gr SWCHP +P to totally and permanently ruin his day. Then she ruined the dog owners day, getting him 2 years for felony attack of a LEO. The bite literally unhinged her knee and she was off for 3 months with much surgery.
She still loves dogs, of course we still have our Shepherd/Ridgeback mix.
She blames the owner(who is now out) who abused the dog and trained it to attack, however she is a little shy of pits. Can't really blame her.

I honestly believe they are what you make them. I don't care what breed of dog. If you raise them wrong just like people they'll be wrong thier whole life.

Chained up al day, no attention that is ABUSE! Clearly we have people here who don't understand dogs which causes the problems.

Because the people who own collies are different from some of the A-holes who own pitbulls. In many cases they are the same kind of people who misuse firearms!

We have training for firearms and hunting in some states required by law. Why? Because firearms are dangerous in untrained unskilled hands. So are some breeds of dogs. People own cars with 800 HP who is some cases should maybe be allowed to have a golf cart max. They kill people and destroy property. The underlying theme here is pit bulls are bad because they are pit bulls, some guns are bad because they look bad. Do you see a pattern developing here?

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The reason the Chow was like that was because it only saw your dad as a leader. He saw everyone else as under his control. When you didn't do what he thought you should do/ be doing he did what dogs do nip / bite. If they had hands they'd slap but they don't so they bite. If some of us knew as much about dogs as we do about firearms there wouldn't be some many misconceptions here.

If anyone in the RI, MA, CT area has a dog they can't control contact me. I'll train you.

CJ STORIES HISTORY AND A NEW THREADDogs are pack animals. There is always a chain of command. Everyone has their place. If a dog doesn't see you as dominant, then he won't listen to you.

Dogs will not kill each other, only humans teach them that. People like Michael Vick are monsters.

Cocker Spaniels bite more people than anyother type of dog, they just don't have the strength of a pit bull. Pit bulls can be dangerous if not trained, just like people with no upbringing.

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PC, censorship
with a smile.

Oops! Sorry about that.

"The reason the Chow was like that was because it only saw your dad as a leader. He saw everyone else as under his control. Sorry about that!"

Dogs are pack animals. There is always a chain of command. Everyone has their place. If a dog doesn't see you as dominant, then he won't listen to you.

Dogs will not kill each other, only humans teach them that. People like Michael Vick are monsters.

Cocker Spaniels bite more people than anyother type of dog, they just don't have the strength of a pit bull. Pit bulls can be dangerous if not trained, just like people with no upbringing.

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PC, censorship
with a smile.

I have two Pitbull mixes from animal shelters My little one was badly abused as a pup. She is now a wonderful dog. My big guy Piper was in a shelter half his life when I adopted him at the age of three. He also is a sweet dog.

If you type in Zia poor mom into google my dog Zia is the first thing that comes up.

How can any one be mean and mistreat a puppy. Rescue dogs can make great companions

The media doesn't report them.
True Story: My wife was on an ambulance crew. She was called to the scene of a dog mauling a young boy, about 4 years old. As she was treating the boy for some pretty serious injuries a TV news crew arrived. when they learned that the dog involved was a YELLOW LAB, thats right everbodys lovable Ol' Yeller, the reporter said, "Oh, it's not a Doberman. No story here." Pits, and to a lesser degree, Rotties, and Dobies get the short end of the stick. It is no different than saying that all (insert race here) people are evil.

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Formerly know as Lucky Derby

The NC Base report was for several bases,
Pitts Rotties and wolf mix dogs are banned.

The Chow Chow post is absolutly correct.
They own everything in sight, including you, and only obay the one that feeds them.
They are also loyal to death.

Look at "obgc" these pets are also lovable when they want to be.

I had a neighbor in FL who had two "bad dog" Chows. They let these untrained, undisciplined dogs roam, unwatched and untended on their screen porch. The dogs regularly escaped. I found these two canine miscreants in my yard one day (my then seven y. o. was in the house, thank God). I call the neighor to come and get them. I met him at the driveway and told him in all seriousness that if I found them on my property again I would shoot them and he could come and collect the corpses. He looked like he was going to give me ***** at first but he wisely thought better of it. I never saw the dogs loose again.

Another breed that has a normally good reputation is the Saint Bernard. When I was young, I had a boss who had a mated pair that were as viscious as I've ever seen dogs be. He trained them to be that way. That and they weighed over three hundred pounds together made them very dangerous. He later went to prison for a number of charges unrelated to the dogs. The dogs were destroyed. Good riddance to bad rubbish, in both cases.

Russ

7.62foryou.
Howdy. I have no doubt that you are very much up on dog behavior and training. So I have a comment and a question for you. The question first.

Do you agree or disagree that all animals have instinctive behavior, and that in different breeds of dogs, that the instinctual behavior of aggression is more prominant?

I know that one cannot make a blanket statement that applies to every breed exclusively. By that I am saying that there are exceptions. I have seen first hand, german shepards that are meek as lambs, and very rarely show aggression.

We have a shilo shepard/german shepard mix that is the friendliest dog in the world. If you have a tennis ball in your hand, you have her complete undivided attention. She lives to play fetch. A very content and happy dog. I have had contact with other german shepards that you could not get close to.

Now my comment.

I think that the pitbull breed is one in which the aggressive instinct is dominant. They, IMO and experience, are physically and mentally built for aggressive behavior moreso than most other breeds. German shepard, and Dobermans are right up there, but in my experience, the pitbull is much higher up on the aggression front.

I have heard of so many cases of children who were left alone with pitbulls getting mauled, seriously injured or killed. It can't just be media bias (although I am sure they sensationalize the pitbull part whenever they can.) Many of the reports claim the the owners say that the dog has been a great family pet, and they never had any worry about leaving the child alone with the dog.

As I said, I am sure you know a whole lot more about dogs and their behavior than I will ever know, but I would not own, nor would I ever leave a child alone with a pitbull. They are built physically to maul and kill, and I think that their brains are wired instinctively to do just that. You can train them to supress that instinctual behavior, but it is always there, and IMO, one cannot trust that it will not surface at any given time.

Zigfried's (or Roy's) tiger bit his face off. He raised and trained that tiger from a cub.

WG840

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Freedom above all else.

I own 3 APBT's, Ive owned or been around this breed in one way or another for the last 20yrs. Owning these dogs is very much the same responsibility as owning a hand gun. One must be held to a higher standard of ownership with this breed strictly due to the dogs massive potential to to take care of itself. A properly bred and RAISED pit is a thing of beauty and would never be a willful man biter. Animal aggressivness and tolerance is a **** shoot at best, these dogs usually will not be dominated by other animals. This reason alone is why keeping these dogs secured at all times without fail is of the utmost importance. These dogs are fearless,loyal and will defend to the death without hesitation. Sounds alot like what people claim to be here. The pitbull is the epitome of the American spirit and we are more like them than we realize. As far as fools exploiting and adulteration of this great breed, both the trainer and animal should be eliminated from the breeding line right away.

Wheelgunner, You are correct to a point, which is why it is important that people who own big strong dogs of any breed be trained in dog behavior. As I and someone else stated if everyone is not dominate over the dog the dog becomes confused, frighten or frustrated and will try to lead those he sees as meek or followers. Since they can't talk or slap they bite. They don't know how frail we are and hurt us when they bite. The bite is usually not aggression but an attempt to correct what they see as bad behavior on the part of the human. Those that are tied up all day with no way to expend energy usually become frustrated and anxious. The ones that are beaten, hit or otherwise physically abused become frighten and distrustful of humans that "invade" their space and defend themselves before they become victims of yet another human. In every case I"ve seen of bad dogs the human(s) were the root cause of the bad behavior. A poke appropreiate to the dogs size is all that's ever needed. Hitting a dog is not the why to dominate them. As for small children they should not be left alone with ANY dog! I wouldn't leave a small child alone with a teacup yorkie. As I stated a dog will try to lead the meek and correct "bad" behavior on the part of the chlid. When large dogs do it the child is hurt or killed. Until the child can be trained in dog behavior a dominate human should always be close by. A fearful, frustrated dog will continue an attack until the "threat" in eliminated, in some cases death of the human wil be the result. Hope this helps you to understand a litle about dogs.

I don't know a lot about dogs like 7.62foryou but I think when the dog accepts that you are the leader, and understands that you are going to feed and shelter them(and take them for rides in the truck ), the things you worry about surfacing go away. We rescued an 2 1/2 year old Akita about a year ago. She is over a hundred pounds of pure power and the wrong side of her would not be a happy place. If we introduce a person or animal to her everything's cool and they're treated like they were us. We love her to death and she gives us more joy and good company than you can imagine. So I guess you have to put me in the "it's the owner" camp.

BTW a very interesting show, "The Dog Whisperer", is running a lot on a HD channel now. Although the guy can be a little hammy at times, he loves Rotties and Pits and can really handle them. Well worth a watch if you get a chance.

Bob

Thanks 7.62foryou.

Hopefully, I will have myself back in my own house soon. I plan on getting a dog. I will most likely be contacting you for some advice on which breed I should aquire given my situation. I won't know for several months, but it is nice to have a good source for advice when the time arrives.

WG840

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Freedom above all else.

Wheelgunner you have my E-mail address if you email me I'll give you my cell #. I'd be happy to help you. You said you live in Smithfield, I work in Franklin MA so getting together will be no problem.

My dad was the original dog whisperer, my mom always said he talked dog. He taught me well about dogs and life. Anyone who watches the Dog Whisperer will be lightyears ahead of any dog "trainer". He knows dogs.

I thought I put it in my address book, but cannot find it. When you have a chance, send me an e-mail (my address is in my profile) and I will add it again.
Thanks,
WG840

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Freedom above all else.

Virtually all of the half dozen or so pit bulls that I have known have been completely anti-social and required to be locked up when someone not in the immediate family was present. Whatever else they are, they do not belong in the suburbs in a small yard where they are constantly trying to get out and can eat children when they do.

The wrong animal was locked up Rick.

I am not a pit bull fan. If they do bite, the bite seems to be far more "vicious" if you will, than a normal dog. I have worked several years in a hospital, a lot of time in the ER. I have seen many animal bites and the ones from a pit bull seem to be more serious on the average.
A personal story..a neighbor across the street had a pit bull. I came home from shooting one day and my daughter, 4 or so at the time, came out to see me. The dog was across the street in the neighbor's yard, and was unleashed. He saw my daughter and started watching her. He then started to come across the street, his eyes fixed on my daughter. The owners seemed oblivious.
I grabbed my Marlin 45-70 and loaded two rounds in the magazine and then chambered one. The noise of the rifle action and my yelling at my daughter to come to me slowly must have made the owner look up. When he looked up, his dog was about 10 yards from my daughter and me, and I had the rifle up and had the dog in my sights.
The owner saw this and flipped out. He ran over yelling at the dog and actually jumped onto the dog and held it down.
He had a few choice words to say to me. I handed the rifle to my wife to unload and she took it and my daughter into the house. I then proceeded to tell the owner that if that dog ever came onto my property again I would kill it. After that, the dog was alwways on a leash or chain when it was out.

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Have Canon, Will Travel

Anyone who has a child needs to keep them from dogs until they know how to treat them.

Usually dogs bite when they are scared. Children pull ears, tails, gouge eyes, scream into ears, put hands into their mouths, etc.

ALL dogs (any animal including humans) can bite, if they are abused enough. Pits, Rotties, Dobies, are big strong dogs. They have incredible strength in their jaws. I have been bitten by many little dogs, no big ones.

No one should EVER leave a toddler alone with any dog, ever.

If someone stuck a finger in my eye, if I didn't have hands, I'D bite them!

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PC, censorship
with a smile.

Because a collie, labrador or other "family friendly" dog does not sell newspapers or get the TV stations ratings. We had a reporter here in Springfield report an attack by a "pit bull". Turned out to be a Shar Pei. How far off can you get? The two breeds look nothing alike. This is a great example of the media looking for ratings.

I as browsing thru an on-line target company's site. They actually had lifesize Rottweiller photograph targets. I thought now there is a good idea.

I agree that pits are beautiful dogs. I love the stance that a properly bred pit has. I also respect their abilities. I also think that they ARE more predisposed to attacks on humans than other dogs. I mean, how many times do you hear of a Shih Tzu attack? Small dogs can be every bit as deadly and aggressive. Every pit I've ever been around has been what the owner called a "properly bred" dog. With that being the case, why has each one of these animals showed at least a small sign of aggression towards me? I think these dogs can really sense apprehension in humans, and I admit to being that way around these. I feel these dogs know it, and tend to take advantage of this emotion, and turn it against the person. Make no mistake, they ARE great looking dogs, but have no business being a legal breed in my opinion. I always have felt better knowing I was armed around them, and would not hesitate to use it at all. I've never felt that way around any other dog, other than possibly a few of the Chows.

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MARK

And you blame the dog?!?!? I'm done. I feel like I'm at a Brady gun control rally trying to voice facts about firearms to someone who got shot in the head and lived. Bite harder than normal dogs GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! Lassie bites harder than Benji which ones normal? I'm about to violate the rules.

You can count on that. Coco, the Akita I mentioned in my other post senses that a friend of ours down the street is afraid of big dogs. He tries to be her friend by giving her cookies and such but she senses his fear and it causes her to tense up. With a dog that is not under control that tension can escalate into aggression. I feel it's my job to see that doesn't happen but I can't make the tension go away since he's the one causing that. Interestingly, she loves the guy's wife, and mother who lives with them, and they don't even give her treats.

Bob

I'm new here and sure don't want to start off on the wrong foot. I do have some experience with the breed and agree they are very misunderstood. In my opinion there are strong parallels between the misunderstanding of Pit's and the misunderstanding of guns. Here are some of the similarities I thought up:

- good people don't have them, criminals do
- no one needs them
- they are most dangerous to the families of the people that own them
- special training and a license should be required to have them
- all dogs/guns are not alike, some are much more dangerous than others
- they have no use and there is no reason for them to exist
- they should be banned

Howdy fsprandy. Welcome to the forum. You jumped right in on a controvercial thread. At least your not shy!

Enjoy the forum. We are always in disagreement with each other, but most of us keep things civil. Glad to have ya!

WG840

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Freedom above all else.

Here is a Pit owner who clearly gets it.

They are an aggressive breed. Good luck keeping your kids safe around a Pit.

Emory

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Hard To Kill

7.62foryou...not sure what your question is regarding...do I blame the dog for coming over to my property and apparently going after my child? I blame the dog and the owner! I have had many dogs and they were never let to run loose.They were always under my control.
As for biting harder? Well, a great white shark bites harder than a goldfish...a 44 Magnum has more energy than a .22CB cap...it was a comparison. If you will read reports of PitBull vs other dog bites, most, and THAT IS MOST, NOT ALL, dogs will bite and let go. A PB tends to clamp on and hold on for a bit.
Yes all dogs bite, from tea cup poodles to bull mastiffs, some harder than others..I will give you that.
As for the blame...I really could give a **** who is to blame, dog or owner, but when a dog was coming at my then 4 year old daughter, while she WAS IN MY YARD, and the dog ENTERED MY YARD, I didn't, or wouldn't now, take time to decide where to place blame, for the same reason that if someone is in my home, uninvited, possibly about to do harm to me or a loved one, I wouldn't take time to figure out where to fix the blame on him or her, or to blame his or her's parents for their actions. It is, and was, about protecting my family from a threat.
So again, sorry if I ruffled your feathers a bit, but it is about my family.

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Have Canon, Will Travel

Photog, Don't apoligize for protecting your family. I understand, you might have given the dog more of a chance than I would have. I wouldn't expect anyone to be assigning blame at that time. But you were assigning blame as you wrote your post well after the incident with time to think about blame yet you still blame the dog for the owners failings. That and other errr......statements made in this thread is what ticked me off. I said I was done and I meant it but I didn't want your apoligy to go unanswered that would be rude which I am not, mostly anyway. Have a good night, God Bless.