If he pays for overnight but it doesn't get there overnight, is there a refund?

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Chris S.
Fort Lauderdale, FL

What do you think? it takes a day to get to the UPS hub.

What do I think?


I think that if I was forced to pay for overnight and they can't deliver overnight that I would ask for a refund which I have done in the past.


I also think that I wouldn't take a "no" from someone at the store/branch level.

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Chris S.
Fort Lauderdale, FL

One minor correction. To the best of my knowledge UPS will still accept firearms from individuals for shipment - but they do require overnight service and they can only deliver the gun to an FFL. Also it cannot be shipped through a UPS store - you have to go to the Customer Center located inside a UPS-owned facility.

In answer to the questions about refunds, if you pay for overnight service, depending on the area where it is being delivered and whether it is going to a commercial or a residential address, it is guaranteed to be there by 3:00pm for some commercial locations, and by 4:30pm for others. For residential addresses it is guaranteed by the end of the day - which can be whatever time the driver for that route ends his day - sometimes as late as 9:00pm or 10:00pm during the Christmas season.

Since guns can only be delivered to an FFL the deliveries would all be considered commercial deliveries - even if the FFL operates out of their home.

If it is not delivered within those time limits, then the person shipping the package can file for a refund. However, keep in mind that a gun is an adult signature required item and if they attempt a delivery but there is no adult available to sign for the package then they have still met their end of the bargain, and no refund will be given. Same applies if they attempt to deliver and the FFL is closed of course.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

That's the question I was wondering about. Since S&W supplied the label, does that make them the shipper even though it was me who dropped off the package.

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Common sense isn't so common.

Some are anyway...

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Common sense isn't so common.

Yup. Sure does. Shipped on and billed to their account and the label will have their shipper number on it.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

Trolls are everywhere, even here.

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Sure you did

The sticking point is 03 FFL's are classified by the BATF as not "being in the business", which is what the BATF uses for the criteria of distinguishing a FFL dealer.

The real issue is the shipping policies that specify "FFL dealer". That's why only an 01 FFL can ship handguns via the USPS.

There has been an effort to get the USPS regulations changed to simply say "Licensed FFL"... but both the USPS and Congress has bigger fish to fry or not fry these days.

And I don't think they can do anything about the policies of private shippers like Fed-Ex or UPS if they decide to adopt more stringent requirements.

So if and unless the USPS rules are relaxed, Fed-EX and UPS both know that they have us by the short hairs.

And as for trying to ship a firearm under the radar... people need to ask themselves, is the extra cost of shipping worth the risk of potentially being convicted of a crime that could end your ability and/or rights, to own or possess firearms?

It isn't for me.

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

Which makes me question the purpose behind their policy. The only difference between using S&W's label and my own is who pays the bill. I still packed it.

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Common sense isn't so common.

FedEx is bupkus!

FFL shipped a Colt Anaconda to me for a customer via Fedex 2 day. Never gave me the tracking number. Day one, FedEx just drives past the house and says no one home because there's no cars in the driveway?
It's cleared of snow so at least walk up?

Day 2, they walk up and stick a door tag with no box in hand.
I set it for pickup at their station now that I have a door tag.

Day 3, i pick it up and they don't care about the last two days.

I wouldn’t think so, the federal law is still the same, they still allow common carriers to be used by private citizens to ship handguns. The change with FedEx is a company policy change/restriction.

Too bad, this is not the direction we want things going, there’s going to be a lot of commerce affected by this change. I do believe that it’s probably related to employee theft, and related expense/headaches. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the ‘woke factor’ has something to do with the decision, as well. We’ll never know that for sure, though.

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NRA Life Member

I would like to try ShipMyGun but ran into a couple of issues.
1. The receiving FFL needs to be registered with ShipMyGun as well.
2. They use UPS. UPS does not do residential pickup in my area. The closest UPS hub is a 140 mile round trip. You cannot drop off a gun for shipping at one of the locations like a Pack & Postal center, Mailbox Etc, or other location that normally accepts packsgaes. Same with FedEx

The last few times I have shipped a handgun via FedEx it has averaged $80-$90 including insurance and a few bucks for residential pickup. And even though I am required to ship via Next Day Air, it is not unusual for it to not be delivered until the 3rd day.

I live in a fairly rural area. When I ship via FedEx Next Day Air the driver often doesn't pick it up until after 4 PM. The next day the package arrives at one of their air shipping hubs and it often isn't delivered until the third day. I let the buyer know and supply the tracking number so they can follow the package's progress. I have asked for a refund and was basically told too bad, I should have made a 100 mile round trip to the closest FedEx hub and dropped it off before noon.

If one ever gets stolen, they will NOT pay the claim because you did not ship overnight.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Based on experience? Or just what you think they'll do?

Guess I’ll just bite the bullet and pay a 20 percent commission at LSB auctions since they are local. No headaches, just drop off the guns and that’s it. All the guns I’ll be selling are worth at least 3 tines what I paid for them so 20 percent won’t hurt too much.

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

Went to FedEx today to inquire about shipping an antique revolver ( S&W Schofield, value $3,000). Staff had no clue whatsoever as to differences between an antique gun or modern gun. " Gun is gun" Insisted only an FFL could ship the gun and new limit on insurance for anything "antique" was $1,000. I will be using USPS Registered mail. Ed

USPS doesn't accept guns from non-FFLs either. Unless there is some exemption for antiques?

UPS may be the only game in town for you.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

BC38, Always has been that any antique firearm can be mailed thru USPS, using any class of mail - Priority, 1st class Registered, etc. & insured. ( Horror story : Yrs ago a dealer in Chicago advertised Remington rolling block rifles that were battle field pickups from Mexican revolutions for about $10 and for an extra buck you could get two rifles! My buddy & I order two. They arrived via USPS, unwrapped with the postage stamps pasted on the stocks of each rifle and each rifle was cocked and loaded ! ) Granted the rounds in the chambers were old and corroded, but life was simpler then! Ed

Well, I knew that "back in the day" you could get guns delivered by USPS - even to your home.
I didn't know you could still ship antiques USPS without an FFL involved.
I don't believe you can either into or out of the state of Washington, because AFAIK even antiques require an FFL transfer and background check.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

One of the drawbacks of living in a republic is that individual states can pass laws that are more restrictive than Federal laws. Sometimes they fall when challenged if preemption can be proved, but it takes deep pockets.

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Release the Kraken

The latest USPS regs allow shipments of handguns betw C&R FFL holders..
BUT only if:
#1..the handgun first meets the USPS definition of a 'Handgun'
#2..the handgun also meets the USPS definition of an 'Antique Firearm'.

This will give you the (above) definitions they use:
43 Firearms | Postal Explorer

This will give you who can mail what & to whom:
432 Mailability | Postal Explorer

432.2a is the section re: C&R shipments of handguns
432.23 is shipment of any handgun betw Dealers/Mnfr's/Importers
432.24 is about the USPS Form #1508 that the above must file with a Handgun shipment
432.3 is the section about USPS shipment of rifles and shotguns thru USPS. When a Non-FFL can ship and to who, When an FFL is needed, etc.
Also a section in there about C&R licensees shipping long guns between them.

Current UPS rules still allow shipment of antique guns. No FFL involved. Their rule says that they follow the US Code for shipping firearms, which says firearms made before 1899 that chamber rounds not readily available, are "antiques", and UPS will ship and insure them. You can download their rule from their web page and also download the US Codes cited in the UPS rules and take them with you when you go to UPS to ship antique guns, as often the staff is not up to snuff on the exemptions for antique firearms and insist "firearms " can only be shipped by FFLs. Ed

Sorry I'm late to this but I shipped a gun via FedEx to an ffl just before the policy change. The hub did want to see the ffl of the receiver when I brought it in. The cost however was $120+change.

I only used FedEx because the buyer paid me electronically so I received funds immediately and didn't want he and his dealer to have wait for a local I shop I have used in the past to ship almost 5 days later.

If I ever ship another I'll use the dealer, half price via UPS fully insured.

I tried the SHIPMYGUN website yesterday and it was a frustrating experience.The top 5 preferred FFLs in my area never heard of them and don't ship for customers.
My usual go to FFL shipped for less than SMG quote.
My FFL uses FedEX and states too many have gone missing when he used the USPS.
Shipping from Texas to Mn with $1500 insurance cost $50.55 for snubby 686-4 FFL to FFL
BTW,my local UPS store will not ship firearms.They only accept firearms shipping at select locations.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

That's an excellent price, given what some of us have been forced to pay.

Yeah,my FFL in Leander TX is a Navy Vet and his transfer fee is very reasonable.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

I wish I had access to your FFL. $50 is a very reasonable cost for shipping. My last one was $65 and it went USPS.

As has been mentioned before NONE of the UPS "Stores" will ship firearms or haz-mats (including ammo). When UPS accepts your package they accept responsibility for it being packaged and marked and shipped according to all DOT regs.

UPS Stores are not UPS owned - they are a franchise operation. So UPS has no control over training their employees on the DOT regs, and no way to hold them accountable for following them.

So, to ship haz-mats or guns or other heavily regulated items, UPS will only accept them at UPS owned locations where THEY have control over the training of the employees and can hold them accountable for following all the regs.

That means you can only ship those items at a UPS Customer Center in a UPS owned and controlled facility where they sort and load trailers and brown delivery trucks.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

Unless there's been a change in the last two years, USPS allows you to ship a rifle/shotgun to yourself, from your home state to another state in care of yourself, for hunting and competitions.
Check their regulations.

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Have Fun/Stay Safe

Since Lee (handejector) is a dealer, I'd take his word.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!