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Old 05-25-2023, 03:04 PM
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Default Got handed my walking papers UPDATED! #120

Today at 11:00 I was called up front for someone asking for me.
Met my new area manager, who said I guess you know why Iím here. I didnít.
My company is in the process of being sold. I was told by my new area manager that they were shutting my location down as of that minute.
49 years and 8 months down the drain.
This really upended our(wife and my) lives.
I donít know what to do.
Not looking for sympathy just feeling I need to vent.
I canít believe it.
My numbers were good. EBITDA has been around 30% when all the company is expecting is 15%.
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Old 05-25-2023, 03:15 PM
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You're just a name on a piece of paper to them, you said the area manager was new, you're nothing to him. What happened to you is very typical of Corporate America today.
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Old 05-25-2023, 03:17 PM
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Feel your pain. Happened to me twice in my twenties. Actually three times.

The second time I had to liquidate my retirement IRA. Had nine years accrued. Had two little ones.

There is a God in heaven. Said a prayer for you two.


,


,
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Old 05-25-2023, 03:18 PM
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Man that sucks big time! I was only 27 (9 1/2 year's in the J&L Steel) when I got laid off for the 1st & last time. Needed 10 years to get vested. I had age on my side and ended up getting Electrical & HVACR diplomas, while also getting all the partying out of my system, sorta. Hope you find something to do and it doesn't set you back too much. That's a lot of time you had for "The man" to tell you gfy. Good luck...
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Old 05-25-2023, 03:21 PM
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I would not be surprised if the new owners are the kind of sharks and vultures who buy a company, then fire everybody except certain personnel to keep it viable until they sell off assets and cash out a company, in which case they don't give a hoot about product, EBIDTA or employees.
I sure hope you'll be OK financially.
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Old 05-25-2023, 03:37 PM
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Did this kill retirement benefits?
Seems like you would have been thinking of retiring anyway, after this length of time.
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Old 05-25-2023, 03:50 PM
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There is no loyalty in business.........
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Old 05-25-2023, 03:56 PM
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There could be a lot of reasons, it's hard to say with the limited information provided. It's never a good thing to get sacked like that. We serve at the whim of our masters. I saw it coming and left about 9 months before I would have been canned.
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Old 05-25-2023, 04:04 PM
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I'm sorry that you were gut punched in such a fashion. I hope your retirement is a long and happy one.
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Old 05-25-2023, 04:23 PM
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That's terrible. Not much compassion out of big business.
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Old 05-25-2023, 04:34 PM
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What to do?

File for unemployment and hunt for a new job until the unemployment runs out. Donít worry, your previous employer pays that bill!

The job hunting part is pretty unobtrusive: you tell unemployment that you called an employer about a job (donít have to apply), you traveled to an employer but didnít get an interview, you sent your resume to employers X, Y and Z but havenít heard back.

Of course, you have to really have done what you tell unemployment youíve done in searching for a new job!

If you had an employer sponsored retirement plan, youíll qualify for it since it vested after your first 5 years of employment with that employer.
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Old 05-25-2023, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph7 View Post
Did this kill retirement benefits?
Seems like you would have been thinking of retiring anyway, after this length of time.
No retirement benefits from the company. Only my IRA and Social Security.
To make a long story short, our company filed Chapter 11 a couple months ago.
Bids were taken for the various locations.
My location was supposed to be sold to the primary bidder, but had no secondary bidder.
Bankruptcy court found out someone in the company leaked information about the company to the primary bidder that the other buyers didnít have.
Bankruptcy court threw the primary bidders offers out because they had an unfair advantage.
The secondary buyer was awarded the sale.
5 days later they picked and chose who the wanted to buy.
Some locations had half my sales but were kept open.
Makes no sense to me.
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Old 05-25-2023, 04:43 PM
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Trying to file on line for unemployment.
What a fiasco.
Guess I need to call them tomorrow
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Old 05-25-2023, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ View Post
There is no loyalty in business.........
That has been at the core of every move I've made since the late 80's. It's a cold hard truth you need to come to terms with at any job. I've had jobs where it was a choice between repairing my car, or keeping my job.
Choose the car, it'll get you to your next job.
Your boss won't care unless he's the involuntary pedestrian.
Always keep a buffer. The ability to float a few months is liberating. Its not like you can expect them to sign over the deed for your loyalty
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Old 05-25-2023, 04:47 PM
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To think that you have been more time with that company than with your own family, and then they give you this treatment without warning or explanation is a horrible thing to do. I hope you the best.
Chief
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Old 05-25-2023, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venomballistics View Post
That has been at the core of every move I've made since the late 80's. It's a cold hard truth you need to come to terms with at any job. I've had jobs where it was a choice between repairing my car, or keeping my job.
Choose the car, it'll get you to your next job.
Your boss won't care unless he's the involuntary pedestrian.
Always keep a buffer. The ability to float a few months is liberating. Its not like you can expect them to sign over the deed for your loyalty
I have had two main jobs since I got out of High School. First was the Marine Corps, no real loyalty from the Corps itself, but there was among the people (both Officer & Enlisted). When it stopped being fun, I retired (24 years). Got a degree in Nursing, when I was tired of that (again loyalty among the staff, not the company), then again I retired for good (20 years), Guess I was lucky in my choices. Didn't make a ton of money, but we will get by......
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Old 05-25-2023, 04:57 PM
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If you've been with them 49 yrs....soon will be able to get max. SSA and earn all you want....may be a blessing !!! take some deep breaths and enjoy life.....pullin' for you, good luck!!
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Old 05-25-2023, 05:08 PM
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I know it must be a whirlwind now with the wounds being so raw. But I promise you the sun will come up tomorrow and maybe, just maybe you will look back on this and smile. They may have done you a favor. Right now I'm still in admiration of 49 years of loyalty and jumping through hoops that you surely endured. But for now, know you have friends here on this forum. I'm pulling (and praying) for you and your family.

Roger
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Old 05-25-2023, 05:08 PM
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Acorn, that absolutely bites! The area manager, and i use that term loosely, is no manager...nothing more than a corporate hatchet entity.
"Guess you know why I'm here?" What the heck kind of a statement is that when that person is about to impact a loyal employees life?
If you are not under a "No compete" take all that data to their biggest competitor and offer your services as a consultant.
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Old 05-25-2023, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babysitr View Post
If you've been with them 49 yrs....soon will be able to get max. SSA and earn all you want....may be a blessing !!! take some deep breaths and enjoy life.....pullin' for you, good luck!!
Already on SS. Pretty hard to live on just that. My wife quit her job to take care of her 92 YO Mom.
I was working to supplement my SS and to cover my wifeís health insurance.
Sheís 59 and isnít eligible for Medicare.
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Old 05-25-2023, 05:44 PM
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That's tough sledding.

Is your career/skill set something that is in demand?
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Old 05-25-2023, 05:47 PM
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The advice I got in my twenties was " keep your resume' updated and your suitcase packed ".

At sixty-two had worked for the same outfit for 26 years. One Friday I was working at my desk and one of the principles stuck his head in and asked if I was tied up the next week working on anything special . . . . thinking he had had a project that needed my attention I told him that there was nothing that couldn't be set aside a day or two if he needed me. His answer was basically, " that's good, 'cause you don't work here any more ".

I needed and had planned to work to at least sixty-five, and though the landscape in my area of expertise was changing they had told me that I could plan on being employed there until I reached my target retirement date. Went from the best company/situation in my entire working life the first sixteen years I was there, to struggling to deal with corporate bovine excrement the last ten because the company changed hands. The new outfit had no problem cutting corners and the clients went from the primary consideration to a 'necessary evil' from a company run by a bunch of college educated morons that couldn't do my job but insisted on telling me how it should be done. Lying for them was an art form.

The wife and I had a rough couple of years regrouping but it was all okay in the end per the Lord's plan. I now view it as one of the best things that happened to me in my working life. My biggest regret was for my clients who got shafted and cast adrift when they closed down my whole department shortly after dumping me. C'est la vie.

I'm sure it's a gut punch but you'll do what you've always done - you'll regroup, buckle down, and get past it. Because that's what men do. You have people counting on you and you'll look to those things you can do and let go of what you can't change. A ways down the road, you'll look back and see it wasn't the disaster it seems at present.
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Old 05-25-2023, 05:48 PM
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I don't know your age, but I am 70 and still working, yes for the money, but I don't want to sit around. Heard of too many that retired and then died.
I think if you are of the same mind as me, you will find something else to keep you busy.

Prayers up for you to bounce back!!
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Old 05-25-2023, 05:54 PM
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It ain't too comforting to be told it happens all the time, ain't happened to you til the other day. Your dynamics and income stream are leaving you in the lurch, I'm sorry to hear of anyone that puts that much time into making a living at anything and then kicked to the curb. Minimum wage jobs at Ace Hardware are what a few of my friends were forced to take up to bring in enough extra to avoid selling the house and making major changes in lifestyle. When I left my employer after 39 years I couldn't wait to get out the door, its one thing when you plan and are fortunate enough to meet your goals, its another to have the rug pulled out from under you. I can't begin to understand how you must feel, I faced a layoff once late in my career due to change of departments and therefore lack of seniority in my current department when state spending in transportation was cut due to legislation and ballot initiatives, that was scary...I'll admit, but my wife and I had never let our spending outbalance the loss of one of our incomes, breathed a sigh of relief when we paid the house off early and saved money whenever we could. I hope you keep your spirits up and figure out a way to make things work...Don't let the *******s get you Down.
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Old 05-25-2023, 06:01 PM
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The Chapter 11 was a big giant red flag.

A lot of times businesses are buying locations. If they already have your location covered with their own people they'll shut you down and move the sales to their team. Your company might have had a poor performing location that is in an area they currently aren't in, and they'll keep that.

I've had to tell people this many times: Companies are not human. They are profit machines. As they should be. Take care of yourself first, as they will not hesitate to throw you under the bus if it suits them. Don't feel guilty about leaving your employer in a spot because they won't worry about it if they do it to you.

This is from a guy that worked for an acquirer, and did the axing many times. Never pleasant. Never personal. Just businesses with complicated decisions to make so they don't end up in Chapter 11.

The irony was we did a good job and we got acquired. I would have been canned as superfluous, they had their own team that did the same thing mine did.
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Old 05-25-2023, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDF4 View Post
If you are not under a "No compete" take all that data to their biggest competitor and offer your services as a consultant.

I was told by the original company president (who held multiple degrees and professional licenses) many, many years ago that those "will not compete" stipulations (in writing or not) are not 'worth the paper they're written on'.

Basically, he explained that the courts have ruled that an employer cannot make you give up your right to earn a living. Barring running afoul of copyrights or patent laws those clauses are meaningless and only designed to intimidate.
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Old 05-25-2023, 06:07 PM
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The harsh reality that I learned from years in business is that the business of business is business.

No profit? No business.
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Old 05-25-2023, 06:22 PM
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Stinks but hang tough and keep your head up.
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Old 05-25-2023, 06:22 PM
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I think under Chapter 11 non-competes would be void. How can you harm their business when they don't exist?

At best they are extremely difficult to enforce, and they usually rely on intimidation. In some states they are virtually worthless.

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Old 05-25-2023, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
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I have had two main jobs since I got out of High School. First was the Marine Corps, no real loyalty from the Corps itself, but there was among the people (both Officer & Enlisted). When it stopped being fun, I retired (24 years). Got a degree in Nursing, when I was tired of that (again loyalty among the staff, not the company), then again I retired for good (20 years), Guess I was lucky in my choices. Didn't make a ton of money, but we will get by......
Unfortunately a lot of us lived through the transition to loyal to the individual, not the company.
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Old 05-25-2023, 06:28 PM
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That just plain s.... stinks.
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Old 05-25-2023, 06:29 PM
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Man I feel for ya. I lived it as a kid. My dad worked at Bethlehem Steel just long enough to get nothing when they closed. He bounced between a couple jobs then got hired at Trico. He was there just long enough to get nothing when NAFTA allowed them to move to Mexico. He passed away at 57. He was beat down. But always held his head high and did what he had to do. My father in law had a similar story. Hopefully you got some sort of severance package. My prayers are with you.
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Old 05-25-2023, 06:30 PM
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Back in 1976 a savvy Wall Street lawyer told me the Dark Ugly Secret of American Capitalism is that many companies are run for the benefit of their top officers-often the top officer. Another friend observed that many companies that used to be good to work for aren't so good anymore. All the little perks and bennies that an older breed of managers understood were good for morale have been eliminated, likewise for reasons that many here understand companies have eliminated all the social events, no after hours socializing, no discussing things over lunch or dinner,work environments have become more formal, more rules of decorum, you talk about work, nothing else. Retirement-if you make it-consists of signing your papers, emptying out your desk, turning in your ID card and parking sticker, and closing the door behind you.

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Old 05-25-2023, 06:40 PM
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Acorn, I like the suggestion to work or consult for a competitor. Much as it grates, you might even be able to consult for the new owners. Maybe call up the new owner's HQ, explain your situation calmly, highlighting that 30% EBITDA, and offer to run another location or consult to improve performance elsewhere.

I worked for a very large corporation and was essentially pushed out the door at 60 as new management for my group thought I was too expensive. Another part of the company valued my expertise and hired me as a consultant. I made good dough and left of my own volition after a couple of years.

While being treated the way you have been treated sure feels personal, as others have said above, it isn't. It's got nothing to do with your performance or your value.

Wishing you the best of luck.

Last edited by Onomea; 05-25-2023 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 05-25-2023, 06:46 PM
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Try to make the best of a bad, really bad, situation, if at all possible. Good luck to you.
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Old 05-25-2023, 06:53 PM
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One of the big problems we got going on is labor does not trust management and management does not trust labor. Both have some pretty solid reasons for their mistrust. But, until that is fixed we never be what we once were. NO MATTER WHAT GOVERNMENT DOES. Without management and labor working had and hand for the benefit of each businesses that produce REAL WEALTH will nor prosper.

In the years after WWII when this country really boomed and found prosperity, the spread between the top level of management's compensation and the top craftsman's was not where near as wide as it is currently.

Consult, or coordinate. I go out as a coordinator now during refinery outages and make almost twice the wage I did as front line supervision

Last edited by steelslaver; 05-25-2023 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 05-25-2023, 07:23 PM
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After 30 years of loyal service, my company went thru chapter 11 and was sold. The new owners were in the south and wanted nothing to do with the Yankee facilities. They offered full retirement for everyone 55 or over (with an enhancement to age 65). I was 54. I was offered a promotion but no way I was going to move to godawful ***.

Several, competitors offered me a job, but it still would have involved a move. Instead I became a consultant EVERY one of my former company's competitors.

Only worked 9.3 days a month, but made more money than before. Did that for 10 years and then retired for good.

I started out worrying and depressed. In the end I found that there could be nothing that could bring me down. There was truly life after Company X.

I DID have a pension, and they couldn't take that away from me. Now I go fishing and enjoy my retirement.
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Old 05-25-2023, 07:24 PM
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Acorn;
You will be fine, maybe not in the short term but soon.
Life is full of "unexpected detours." You just got one. New road is unfamiliar but you will anticipate the new destination.
Do not: Get drunk, kick the dog, smash a grapefruit in the wife's face (only Cagney can get away with that).
I'm 70 now and retired after 54 years paying in.
1997 I got the same deal as you after 11 years, same thought. Sent my resume out on the then novel internet. Got hired on by the pharma biz, made 1/3 of my lifetime $$$ in 8 years. "President's Club" (top 1% of sales reps) in 2004, unemployment club end of 2005. This was after my manager said "Joe you are so good, you will retire from this." Yeah, no. At 53 I looked not like either Ken or Barbie. Taught school for 15 years until Covid near to killed me and broken back hurt too much to work.
Upside is I make about $500/ month more sitting than school teacher take home. Keep the faith, you will be OK. Best wishes. Joe
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Old 05-25-2023, 08:33 PM
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These punks did you wrong. As my mom always said, "when one door closes, another opens". You will make it, never give up on yourself. Look ahead and stay positive.
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Old 05-25-2023, 09:08 PM
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ACORN, It’s days like these that you lay back, smoke ‘‘em if ya got ‘em, and play some good ol’ 60s rock. It’s not too late to some 88.3 FM, WRCT CMU’s radio station. Have a good night dude…
Jeff T.
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Old 05-25-2023, 09:17 PM
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One more sharing my story of learning my departure was the best thing to happen to me (and really did not think it was at the time).

I had been a department director for nearly twenty years, built it from scratch essentially, was cut for a buck right before Christmas.

Worked as an agency therapist for about 6 months, then was hired to work in a pediatric ER, Friday,Saturday, and Sunday 7P to 7A. Greatest job ever. Was there for 19 years and loved it.

Donít lose hope, I know itís not easy but hopefully itís the best thing for you as well.
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Old 05-25-2023, 09:19 PM
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No matter how successful you are, new owners always want to restructure so they can ruin the business on their terms.
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Old 05-25-2023, 09:46 PM
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One of the things I noticed when I came to the US in '97 was that there were things unions were allowed to do that had been outlawed in the UK, the closed shop being one. After living here a little while, I began to understand that the employers of the US got the unions they deserve.

What has happened to the OP is disgusting, but I cannot say I am shocked.
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Old 05-25-2023, 10:11 PM
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Add me to the list of those who lost a good job as the result of a Chapter 11 filing. But I was fortunate enough to get an equivalent job at about the same pay within a month, with a semi-competitor. And my wife also had a reasonably well-paying job, enough to keep the wolf away from the door for a long time if necessary. We had to move to a different town, but that part wasnít too difficult. Regarding the non-complete clause I had signed, I ignored it. Nothing happened. It is fairly toothless in Texas inless you leave with a file cabinet full of trade secrets. That same company tried to enforce that non-compete agreement against a friend I worked with who was also let go, and the company lost big time in court.

I did get a measure of revenge against that company. I would have been a key witness in a multi-million dollar liability lawsuit filed against the company when I was working there, and my testimony would have greatly helped the company fight the lawsuit. The company attempted to get me to testify in support of their defense arguments somewhat after they let me go, and I told them to stuff it. The company later lost the case in court. I remember that one of the companyís lawyers threatened me by saying that he would issue a subpoena to force me to appear as a defense witness. I replied that if he did that, the only thing I would testify to was having no recollection of anything. And that ended any more such threats. It is never a good idea for a defense lawyer to subpoena a hostile defense witness.

Last edited by DWalt; 05-25-2023 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 05-25-2023, 10:16 PM
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I feel your pain Acorn.
In December I met my new boss face-to-face for the very first time (my THIRD boss in just nine months, BTW).
The reason he came to see me in person? To tell me that the Corporate bean-counters had decided to "downsize" (a.k.a. FIRE) 30 people at my level nation-wide, and that my position was one of the 30 being eliminated.
I got about an hour to pack my personal belongings and he hired an Uber to drive me home since I had come to work that day driving my company car.
No warning, no advance notice, nothing. Just "you're out - goodbye".
At least they gave me a decent severance package - 3 months pay spread out over a 4-month period, plus I still got my semi-annual bonus, which amounted to another couple of weeks worth of my paycheck.
As a 60 year old white male, my prospects for finding a comparable new job are, shall we say, less than stellar.
Hiring me won't fill anybody's EEOC quotas, so basically I am at a HUGE disadvantage when competing with the 30 and 40 year olds in today's job market. Especially those whose demographics fit some "intersectional" profile.
Thankfully my wife and I have both had professional careers with good earnings for a few decades, and we have always lived well below our means and invested the surplus. Plus we own our home free and clear (except for taxes), so even if I don't find another job, we should be fine, financially speaking.
It's still a real gut-punch to be summarily dismissed like that with no warning though.
But that seems to be the normal modus operendai for Corporate America these days.
Personally, I'm going to draw my $1k a week in unemployment until it runs out, and if God doesn't provide me with a job before my unemployment benefits end, then I'll just retire a year earlier than I originally planned. I've always planned on starting to draw my SSI just as soon as possible at 62 anyway.
I wish you the best in your search for a new position.
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Old 05-25-2023, 10:25 PM
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The first thing to do is not take this personally - whomever bought the place is only concerned with numbers.

After you have a beer and get past the shock, recall that you have nearly half a century of experience in your field - such people are nearly unobtainable in the actual labor market today, where there are more jobs than workers. We Boomers, complete with a work ethic and good 'soft skills,' have been moving to the exits in exponentially increasing numbers since 2010, with 2021-2028 likely the peak exodus. Look around in your field, don't be afraid to take a short-term gig, and remember your professional network.

I sort of retired in late 2020; my wife told me to get back to work last fall. I had a job in precisely my field in my first interview, and the thirty-somethings doing the hiring were relieved to find someone with experience. While what I'm doing is not 'safe,' meaning there's no job security, who cares - I'll be 68 soon and every day lived is bonus time, every dollar earned gravy on the meat-and-potatoes of SocSec and small pensions. Because there is no job security and no benefits (I already have Medicare), my take home pay is the best ever.

The system is cold and uncaring. Accept it, grumble a little while, and move on. Take care of you and don't sweat how things have changed - that you can't fix.

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Old 05-25-2023, 10:29 PM
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Take a step back and breathe. Assess your situation. Sorry to hear of this situation. This could work out the best for you. Prayers to you.
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Old 05-25-2023, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC38 View Post
No warning, no advance notice, nothing. Just "you're out - goodbye".
In February 2009 I got the same treatment, with a very piddling severance. The grandparent company bought some other title insurance underwriters and I got squeezed out in the merger. There I was, laid off in a recession sensitive industry in my mid-50s, too young to retire.

I got a few bucks doing some work for a State agency that knew me, then somehow I got wind of a document review project that a specialty employment agency was hiring for. The project was described as being for 4 weeks, and I figured at least for 4 weeks I wouldn't be dissipating my assets. I got onto the project and time passed and after 4 months I was still working on the project. When there was a partial termination on the project the employment agency said its client specifically asked if I would stay on longer and of course my answer was "Heck yes!" A temporary job that started at 4 weeks turned into a 6 month job. That carried me along until a dear sweet lady who got laid off the week after I did put in a good word for me at her new job. I sent in my resume, and when the senior partner called me he said he was tired of hiring inexperienced people who didn't know what they were doing and hired me over the phone. I stayed there until I retired.

Keep shaking the trees. When I got canned the first time, the father of a friend called somebody he knew, who didn't have any openings but knew somebody who did. I drove through a blizzard to get to the interview. I was 20 minutes late but they figured I wasn't going to make it at all. I got the job.

Believe me, you are not alone. Keep plugging away looking for a new job and good luck to you.

Last edited by Golddollar; 05-27-2023 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 05-25-2023, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
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One of the things I noticed when I came to the US in '97 was that there were things unions were allowed to do that had been outlawed in the UK, the closed shop being one. After living here a little while, I began to understand that the employers of the US got the unions they deserve.
A very famous publisher back in the Depression Era 1930s
told his fellow publishers, "Labor does not create unions. Management creates unions."
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Old 05-26-2023, 12:31 AM
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It's always tough when you don't go out on your terms. I got fired once. Best danged day of my life!
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