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04-01-2009, 08:09 AM
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In the "ST Readers Speak Out" section of the May 2009 Shooting Times, there is a letter to Dan McElrath reacting to his article which says 38 S&W cartridges will fit in a 357 Mag gun.
The letter states they won't fit, but he says the bullet is typically .360 but there is data for .357 diameter bullets, and the only concern is a carbon ring from the shorter case.
I got out some 38 S&W factory ammo and it would not chamber in 3 of my S&W 38 Special revolvers.
Will any of your 38 Special or 357 Magnum guns chamber 38 S&W?
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04-01-2009, 08:09 AM
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In the "ST Readers Speak Out" section of the May 2009 Shooting Times, there is a letter to Dan McElrath reacting to his article which says 38 S&W cartridges will fit in a 357 Mag gun.
The letter states they won't fit, but he says the bullet is typically .360 but there is data for .357 diameter bullets, and the only concern is a carbon ring from the shorter case.
I got out some 38 S&W factory ammo and it would not chamber in 3 of my S&W 38 Special revolvers.
Will any of your 38 Special or 357 Magnum guns chamber 38 S&W?
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04-01-2009, 08:19 AM
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I will try to remember to check tonight.
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04-01-2009, 08:22 AM
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They usualy dont fit unless you have a super sloppy chamber.
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04-01-2009, 08:32 AM
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Same experience here. Tried two Model 19s and one Model 36 Smith, no-go. I tried several brands of both smokeless and blackpowder rounds.
Think the writer was mis-informed.
Bob Wright
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04-01-2009, 08:35 AM
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Oh, yeah. Remember the old Victory Models in .38 Special sold by mail order a few years ago? These were originally .38 S & W and had had a .38 Special reamer run through the chambers. They DID take .38 S&W, but using .38 Specials left bulged cases. Think many of these had new cylinders of proper caliber re-installed.
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04-01-2009, 10:16 AM
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Never tried it.
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04-01-2009, 10:17 AM
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36, 19-3, 36-1, 10-7, Detective Special, 637-2, 638 - all nada. I remember a guy online who had some kind of Llama or other Spanish gun that would take them though.
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04-01-2009, 01:00 PM
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Factory ammo won't fit, unless you have one of the aforementioned rechambered S&W Victorys.
Howsomever, you can reload 38 S&W using 38 Special dies (basically making 38 Short Colt). You will then have ammo headstamped 38 S&W that will work in 38 Special and 357 Magnum guns. Maybe Dan McElrath had something like that.
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04-01-2009, 01:08 PM
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I have a US Victory that is chambered in 38 Special. Three of the chambers will accept a 38 S&W ctg and three will only accept 38 Special. I do not know if this is the result of sloppy boring of chamber holes in wartime or over vigorous cleaning post war.
So based on my experience the answer is: Yes, No and Maybe
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04-01-2009, 01:16 PM
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Just yesterday I was looking through an old Speer relaoding manual and checked the cartridge specs for the two. It lists the .38 S&W at .380 outside diameter and the Spl. at .379 while both have .440 rims. There's .38 S&W load data for both .357 jacketed bullets and .358 lead. They also note that shortened .38 Spl. cases will almos always split when fired in the .38 S&W. I guess the .38 S&W brass is slightly thicker while having the same inside diameter. The editors also include this remark about the break open guns in .38 S&W: "Some of these break open revolvers were not even safe when new." !
Kapp
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04-01-2009, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
I got out some 38 S&W factory ammo and it would not chamber in 3 of my S&W 38 Special revolvers.
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Ditto here, will not chamber in my 10, 586, or 638.
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04-01-2009, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by pbslinger:
I got out some 38 S&W factory ammo and it would not chamber in 3 of my S&W 38 Special revolvers.
Will any of your 38 Special or 357 Magnum guns chamber 38 S&W?
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They will if you hit 'em hard enough with the rubber mallet-If not try a 25/64's drill bit in the old Black & Decker-but clamp the cylinder down tight in the vise first and try to do it sober so you get the holes straight.
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04-01-2009, 03:30 PM
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My understanding was that as counterintuitive as it might seem, only the .38 Long Colt's were able to be chambered in a .38 (S&W) Special or .357 Magnum revolver's chambers. It's one of the few loads that are even lighter than a 148 grain full wad cutter target rate .38 Special. Good luck trying to find them!
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04-01-2009, 04:44 PM
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Nope.
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04-01-2009, 04:50 PM
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.38 S&W cases are just bigger in diameter than .38 Spl/.357 Mag.
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04-01-2009, 05:31 PM
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I've owned a couple of M-19's made during the Bangor-Punta years that WOULD accept fired cases from my brother's .38/200.
I was troubled, and wrote to Speer, who confirmed that S&W was chambering some guns on the large side, and they suggested that I consider buying a Colt. Said that they had experienced much better quality control with Colt in those days.
Those .357's were giving hard extraction, which is why I checked chamber dimensions by trying a .38 S&W case.
I have not had this problem with other S&W .357's. But others have, as Speer confirmed. I also wrote to a very famous gun writer at a popular hunting and fishing magazine. He waffled, trying not to say anything that would upset S&W, but basically admitted that things weren't as they should be in Springfield.
However, no current gun writer worthy of the name should be inferring that it is NORMAL for a .38 Special or .357 to accept .38 S&W ammo.
FYI, in the 1950's, RAF pistol teams had trouble with issued, FMJ .38/200 ammo sticking bullets in S&W bores, The problem did not seem to occur in Webley or Enfield guns, which were bored slightly looser.
A S&W official (who will probably want to remain nameless) did furnish me with bore dimensions for their .38/200 revolvers. They were slightly larger than for .38 Special, but probably not enough to deal with low powder charges and FMJ bullets.
I think the RAF problems were due to some ammo lots being loaded on the light side, and perhaps, some barrels that were accidentally supplied with .38 Special dimensions.
Keep in mnd that when S&W set their standards for .38 S&W barrels, they had lead bullets in mind. Someone probably forgot to compensate for the jacketed bullets, which have a much higher friction level. And British service revolver ammo had low powder charges. I think they should have tried to get those bullets out the muzzle at at least 700 FPS. Frankly, the .38 S&W was a bad choice as a service round. It may have been all that they could cram into a top-break Enfield revolver, given the design's pressure limits.
That said, we know that S&W .38/200 revolvers were VERY popular among the troops. MOST must have served pretty well. But most were probably never really fired at the enemy. Those who used them often preferred to capture enemy pistols, if local commanders turned a blind eye. Unfortunately, British gun laws being so severe, thousands of soldiers had to dump their prized captured pistols in the Channel after the war. Some did slip back, and others obviously made their way to other Commonwealth countries, where they are still encountered. American author Robert C. Ruark observed that many war trophy pistols appeared on their owners' belts in Kenya during the Mau -Mau terrorist crisis of the 1950's. BTW, one of his articles in, "Life" showed a Kenya settler in his bathtub, with either a .38/200 or a .455 MK II Hand Ejector beside the tub. That would have been about 1953. I was VERY young then, and just beginning to notice gun types. But I recall that photo vividly, even now. Not bad for a kid about 8 or 9 then, eh?
Troops especially likely to use handguns, like Commandos and paratroops, were widely issued with automatics. The Colt .45 was standard Commando issue, as of 1940. The new (then) Browning HP 9mm was also extensively used by paratroops. You can see a couple in the hands of the Red Devils photographed during the Battle of Arnhem in Sept., 1944.
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04-01-2009, 10:09 PM
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I was taught that a .38 S&W cartridge won't fit in a .38 special chamber.
HOWEVER, back in the 1970s, while studying criminal justice in college, that came up and the instructor, a former NYC motorcop, brought in his S&W (I think it was a M19) and a couple of .38 S&W cartridges. Sure enough, they fit, but were very tight.
Never say never!
In a similar topic, a friend had a Python and early Zero brand .38 special reloads would NOT chamber every time. He took his revolver to a gun shop and had to go through several boxes of .38s to get 50 that would fit.
Later on, Zero quality control improved greatly.
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04-02-2009, 10:47 AM
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The exterior case dimensions of a 38 Special or a 357 Magnum, are .379". I finally found 38 S&W in only a 30 yr old Speer reloading manual, and it is listed as .380.
With only a .001" difference, mfg. tolerances stand to reason "some" 38 S&W cartridges will fit in "some" chambers.
I do know that the old Victory models with 38 S&W chambers that had been "relieved" to take 38 S&W will bulge a case bad enough they often have to be hammered out with a punch.
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357 magnum, 380, 586, 637, browning, cartridge, colt, detective, ejector, hand ejector, m19, model 19, punta, springfield, top-break, victory, webley |
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