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04-27-2009, 08:15 PM
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I keep hearing people on here talking about the same ammo shortage happening in 1994 was it as bad as the one we're having now? Did the prices jump as high as they are now? Just curious...Thanks.
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04-27-2009, 08:17 PM
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It wasn't ammo back then, just primers. They were all but impossible to find. I don't remember the prices going as high though. A lot of us learned then to always "be prepared."
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04-27-2009, 08:18 PM
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No, what's happening now is pretty interesting - a much better show. As in '94, however, I was adequately stocked and am just enjoying the show from the sidelines. I expect it'll calm down here soon enough. The Great Primer Scare was something, though: I know fellas here who are still using up primers that they set aside back then.
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04-27-2009, 08:30 PM
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I'm with Erich, I watched the whole thing with some amusement then, same as now. Unless the Apocalypse breaks out, I'm good to go for a while.
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04-27-2009, 08:55 PM
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There were several shortages that took place around that time, some of which predated '94. There was a drought of 7.62x39mm caused by the abrupt shut off of cheap Chicom ammo - it took a bit for sufficient supplies of Russian, Finn, etc ammo to come in. There was also a shortage of JHP personal defense ammo caused by Metzenbaum's idea to have a 10,000 percent tax, or some such number, on ammo as well as statements that JHPs might be banned.
The primer scare was partially caused by rumors that ammunition was being date coded to go bad after a certain time.
Linda Thompson, of Waco conspiracy fame, was spreading some of these rumors at the time. She also said that reflective dots on the back of road signs were to help guide UN occupation convoys, and that the then new show "The Xfiles" was based on real NSA files. She also said that I was working for the CIA to discredit her when I argued with her.
Anyway... The shortages that took place from circa '92 to '94 were not as severe as the current one and did not involve all calibers the way things now are being hit.
Keep in mind that ARs still weren't that common in '94, nor even were AKs and the lot.
The depression (little d, for now) going on now, as well as the problems with Mexico, and now the spreading of a plague are all going to influence the shortage. However certain calibers, particularly military ones, were already getting hard to get and pricey as far back as 2006. I had to hunt around to stock up on 5.56mm back then.
In '94 you wouldn't have had to go to a Walmart and see bone empty shelves, pay 70 bucks for .380 ammo, or have to pause to ponder about when the last time you saw some .38 ammo on a shelf.
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04-27-2009, 09:33 PM
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I think the real problem in '94 was primers, they went from under ten bucks a thousand to around thirty, and it didn't take long. As Gatorfarmer said there was an attempt by the gun phobes to have them expire after a time. That went nowhere but people panicked. As a reloader that was what concerned me. I now have enough primers that my son will have to use a truck to take them away when I croak.
I went to the Reno gun show last weekend and people were hauling ammo out on hand carts. I bet you that next year it will be very available on Craigslist.
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04-28-2009, 04:57 AM
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I seem to remember the price surge, and me just swallowing any pride I might have had. I blew a huge chunk of change, probably $150 and bought over 10,000 primers. I'm thinking some of the benchrest primers down in the powder magazine are from that era.
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04-28-2009, 05:05 AM
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It's hard to believe that it was 15 years ago. I remember it well.
Before the run on primers, I had luckily bought enough in bulk that I was pretty well stocked.
After the panic subsided, I made sure to restock, and then some.
Right now, I am buying when I see a good deal. You see a lot of odd-ball stuff for reasonable prices, but it may be awhile before that's true of popular ammunition / components.
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04-28-2009, 07:55 AM
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I know a guy that stocked up in 93-94....now he is too old to move it all
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04-28-2009, 09:03 AM
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For those with really long memories, I think we were also having supply problems back in the 60’s when Congress was discussing the original gun control act (68), prompted by the RFK & MLK assassinations, that bill had been languishing since after JFK was killed.
The shortages in the early 90’s coincided with the passage of the Brady Bill (94).
Evidently we stock-up when we see problems coming, sort of like Hurricane Preparation here in Florida.
Now of course we have the internet which tells us that it’s not just our local shop it’s country wide. Way to really put a scare into an old guy.
To add to the current problem, I suspect that many of us let our supplies drop during the 2002-2007 period because of the price escalations. The price increases were to a degree justified by material price increases most notably lead and brass. That of course was brought about by the housing bubble.
I suspect many of us are cynics about government, we expect that the progressives are waiting for the right tragedy to ram through a nasty control measure.
You know what? Considering who is in charge both in Congress and the White House, a little panic might be in order.
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04-28-2009, 09:24 AM
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I wonder if there was a run on firearms and ammunition before the Roosevelt's 1934 GCA went into effect? (I love blaming things on the 2nd Roosevelt! )
I don't remember much about the GCA of 1968...
Unfortunately, I wasn't paying attention to such things when I was younger...I was primarily concerned with...females.
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04-28-2009, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GatorFarmer:
Linda Thompson, of Waco conspiracy fame, was spreading some of these rumors at the time. She also said that reflective dots on the back of road signs were to help guide UN occupation convoys, and that the then new show "The Xfiles" was based on real NSA files. She also said that I was working for the CIA to discredit her when I argued with her.
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What ever happened to that crazy lady? I always enjoyed reading her off the wall nonsense.
Is she enjoying her golden years in a rubber room?
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04-28-2009, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by oldRoger:
You know what? Considering who is in charge both in Congress and the White House, a little panic might be in order.
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A little panic before November, 2008, might have been more appropriate.
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04-28-2009, 10:17 AM
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I remember the primer prices of the 90's well. The price increase was mostly all dealer price increase not distributor. We were fortunate to have a dealer locally that never raised his prices. He had problems for awhile getting them, but never charged greater than $12 to $13 p/1000. That's why we all kept going back to him to buy guns, because he treated everyone fair.
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04-28-2009, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 45wheelgun:
Quote:
Originally posted by GatorFarmer:
Linda Thompson, of Waco conspiracy fame, was spreading some of these rumors at the time. She also said that reflective dots on the back of road signs were to help guide UN occupation convoys, and that the then new show "The Xfiles" was based on real NSA files. She also said that I was working for the CIA to discredit her when I argued with her.
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What ever happened to that crazy lady? I always enjoyed reading her off the wall nonsense.
Is she enjoying her golden years in a rubber room?
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That's a good question. I honestly don't know. You'd think that she'd have been on hand for 9/11 conspiracies - and maybe she was, I didn't keep track of those.
Wiki lists here as last active in the late 90s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Thompson_(attorney) . Maybe the CIA/UN/Reptoids finally got her.
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04-28-2009, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GatorFarmer: Keep in mind that ARs still weren't that common in '94, nor even were AKs and the lot.
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Huh?
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04-29-2009, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by G-Mac:
Quote:
Originally posted by GatorFarmer: Keep in mind that ARs still weren't that common in '94, nor even were AKs and the lot.
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Huh?
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More people own AR15s, AK clones, and what not these days compared to 1994. The AR15 was not yet "America's rifle" in the early '90s. Thus demand for "military" calibers is going to be higher now than it was in 1994.
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04-29-2009, 05:03 PM
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The folks in Arkansas started buying in Jan 93 even before Billy took office Primers wernt to scarce in Jan of 93 but I made a gunshow the first week in Jan. and everybody was buying.
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04-30-2009, 05:56 AM
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I rode out the primer scare of '94.
In late '92, or early '93, I found a deal on Remington primers. A shooting buddy and I bought a bunch at $9 per thousand.
When I used mine up I switched to Winchester pistol primers. Still have quite a few of them around, mostly because I haven't been reloading as much as I once did.
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01-31-2013, 04:10 AM
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Searching the web for info on how long previous ammo shortages lasted, I found this in the way back machine.My how prophetic you were...
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldRoger
I suspect many of us are cynics about government, we expect that the progressives are waiting for the right tragedy to ram through a nasty control measure.
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01-31-2013, 08:02 AM
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The biggest difference today, "the interweb".
Nothing spread then as it does now.
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01-31-2013, 11:07 AM
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At leas in my area...ammo wasn't an issue. There was a brief scare on reloading componants...but nothing like it is at the moment.
The only ammo I had real issues finding back then was .40S&W...forr some reason or other the fourtys were really hard for me to get hands on until later in the 1990's
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01-31-2013, 01:07 PM
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The primer shortage of 1994 hit at the height of my reloading. It was caused by fear of new gun regulations, the Brady Bill, and rumors of ridiculous laws. This occurred at the same time as a major primer supplier (CCI I believe) had to shut down in order to replace its packaging equipment.
Their primers had been packaged in quantities of 100 with ten rows of ten primers touching each other. The new packaging has a cell pocket for each of the individual primers.
Prior to the scare I would pay $12 to $14 per brick of 1,000 at gun shows. During the scare primers could not be found. After things settled down the prices were running in the $15 to $20 range.
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01-31-2013, 01:58 PM
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I've been a bad boy and kind of lazy (kind of?) During the economic problems of the early 1980s I bought primers. They weren't high and they were available. More so than the money to buy them. It kind of over did it back then and I've got a mix of brands (all American). Because of my primary usage of SPP and some LPP, I just figured I had plenty for the rest of my life. Who knew I'd get this old and nasty. Anyway when 1994 and the Klinton gun banners were going full steam, I decided I should just stuff primers in all the empty shells I had.
Then for whatever reason I began shooting 9mm and realized I was sorely short. My oldest and I both bought Berettas and I figured I needed an ammo splurge. I'd already loaded all the 9mm brass I had, so we went to a gun show up north. It was Dayton and one seller made me a deal (have I got a deal for you kind of thing.) He sold me 4,000 once fired for about $100 total. Did I mention I had a single stage press? So I fabricated a press mount out of an old chair. After that broke I mounted the press on a board and then the board to one of Momma's good stout dining room chairs. C clamps were the deal that saved my life. Anyway, sons were living at home during that period and we spent many nights pulling the handle. One step at a time! Ammo cans filled to the point they hurt to pick up. I have no idea how many fit in a .50 cal can. They worked real well in a succession of guns. First the Beretta, then the S&W M39s. Still fire just fine in my P210s.
Somewhere along the way I've bought a few thousand more primers. Not necessary because I still must have enough. And now I've got a minor shortage of LRP.
And I just looked at some notes that related to the cost of ammo/reloading. All of them use the $8 a thousand price for primers. Powder was cheaper then, too. I've never cast very much, but had the molds and handles. I gave away my Lee casting furnace. Son now mad because he's into casting. Even my wife loved casting but we didn't do much of it. At the big Louisville show I sprung $100 to buy my oldest a luber sizer (RCBS) and a Lyman 4 gang semi wadcutter mold with handles. I thought that was a bargain.
I guess the point to my rambling is being prepared isn't something you can do all at once. It takes years and years. Then we get creaky and die I guess.
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01-31-2013, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdog
The biggest difference today, "the interweb".
Nothing spread then as it does now.
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If I remember the AWB took allot of us by surprise. At the time I was busy working and raising a family. Being a NRA member since 1974 you think I would have known but the American Rifleman was always full of doom and gloom, so I just put it on ignore. Now with the Internet and smart phones we have all this information at our fingertips. I don't think that the politicals ever thought they would get the resistance to there AWB that they are getting. On the down side it has caused quite a panic buy, but maybe that's good too as it sends the politicals another message.
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01-31-2013, 05:18 PM
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Glad to see a 4 year old thread brought back to life.
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01-31-2013, 06:29 PM
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As I remember, it was '94 or about when it was proposed that anyone with ammo in excess of 500 rounds (I believe it was 500) would have to have an arsenal license.
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01-31-2013, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R. G. Amos
As I remember, it was '94 or about when it was proposed that anyone with ammo in excess of 500 rounds (I believe it was 500) would have to have an arsenal license.
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Yes that was part of it. They were also proposing that primers should be made to self deactivate after three years. If the politicians think the reaction to the first AWB was bad, they have no idea of what the people will do this time around. I'm not referring to what guns will do, but what the votes will do. There is a reason why the original AWB was not extended another ten years. I always figured an assault weapon was one used in an assault, watching folks that learned about guns from Batman movies define an assault weapon... well I'll hold my words.
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01-31-2013, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max
Glad to see a 4 year old thread brought back to life.
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Me too! Still seems appropriate and very timely. Glad to see folks utilizing the search feature.
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01-31-2013, 09:38 PM
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AWB revisited?
I wonder how many of the current politicaians can remember what hapened to the congressmen & senators who voted for that awful AWB law (in 1994) on the next election cycle? (Ask Bill Clinton, he remembers) Whammm.....Boom......GONE.......!
If it Does happen again, I can see history repeating itself.
Art
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01-31-2013, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max
Glad to see a 4 year old thread brought back to life.
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This is an OLD thread?
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01-31-2013, 10:06 PM
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The message is so timely, I hadn't even noticed that the first half or more is from 2009! Yikes.
I worked in a gun shop from 1993 to 1995 part time. The AWB didn't seem to hurt much, but the loss of Chinese 7.62x39 and AK/MAK 90s did. We'd get a truck full of ammo cases (1440 rounds?) and it'd be gone in two days. Even after it went from $69 or 99 a case to over $150.
Rob
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01-31-2013, 10:57 PM
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I'm in 'high cotton' as some say, re 22LR, but need more of just about all the calibers I stock (4 in total).
Watching this is painful, and it has caused me to lay off shooting in some calibers.
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