Could someone in the LEO world tell me how in the hell can the cops ride in their patrol car, comfortably, all day, all week, all year and not have severe back pain or what ever because their gear belt or what ever they are called have their gun, stun gun, cuffs, flash light, pepper spray, ammo pouch, and what ever else latch on to their waist? How much does one of these fully loaded belts weigh? Plus the life vest, how much does it weigh? On top of it all, how can cops take the heat with all this gear on when the temp is 90 - 100 degrees out??

They can have their job. Heck, when I just have my small side arm on, when driving it can be a real pain in the arsh.

Joe

Hi:
You left out Asp Baton, PR-24, Portable Radio, Taser,and BUG.
Back pain, Arthritis, Bursitis, and various Cardiac/Lung problems go with the turf.
Jimmy

As a former LEO, I can tell you this. You can't. Even the best gear, while worn properly, will take its toll on you. That is why so many cops have back and leg issues. I have huge calluses on my hips from where my duty belt used to ride. You learn to manipulate your gear while you are wearing it, so it is a little more comfortable. As for a vest, most modern body armor is lightweight and breathable. It isn't bad to wear if you are used to it. Now, military issue vests (for rifle rounds) is horrible.

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Dyin ain't much of a livin

You would think that a LBE type suspender system would make sense. I really don't see how they can walk with all that slung around the waist.

What makes you think it is comfortable?

Haven't worn one since 1990 when I retired, but a few years before that I did weigh mine, and it weighed 22 pounds.

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Gunsmithing since 1961

Depending on the vest, it usually weighs around 3-5 lbs. The gunbelt weighs around 15 lbs.

I used to have trouble taking off the belt, 'cause I would float around the room about 4 inches off the floor for about 30 minutes.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

You think walking is bad. You should try a foot pursuit while wearing all that ****.

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Dyin ain't much of a livin

The vest isnt so bad any more. They are much lighter and more flexible than they used to be, and the new miracle fabric T shirts help considerably with the moisture transfer away from the skin.
My belt carries , clockwise from the buckle: Taser, a double mag pouch with two .40 cal Sig 226 mags, a cellphone pouch and Smartphone, my Motorola XTS 5000, Stinger in case, baton ring (OK I am old fashioned), nitrile glove pouch then a space from kidney to kidney, because I cannot stand stuff poking my back in the car. From the buckle around the other way, can of OC in case, cuffs on a keeper, P226 in a
level 3 Holster, ASP in a case,and a cuff case,
Clipped to my vest is a Sig 239 .40, spare mag in a hip pocket. A Benchmade Styker is clipped in my offside front pants pocket.
Very few departments other than a few on the Left Coast, use LBE because of the danger in a scuffle. A big guy can grab your suspenders and spin you like a top.
I am too damned old for foot pursuits, let Kevin CW do that. As a supervisor it is important that I carry what my men and women carry. ALL told, with pocket contents, about 19 or 20 lbs.
With all that gear, and the vest, I can't feel the seatbelt, so more than once I have about strangled myself piling out of the car without unclipping the seatbelt. All old cops have sore backs, knees, and feet. THrow in more than a few rotator cuffs, too. I have had three knee surgeries and one shoulder surgery. It's still the most fun job in the world. Been doing it for almost 36 years now. John

Damn Lt JL. I could not last one shift! Do you really need to pack all that at once?

Seems like someone in LEO field would come up with a new system to carry all that stuff on other locations of the body.

Seems that woman LEO's would have the same problems or more to me for some reason. Is it required to carry all that or is it an option depending on the location you are in or the patrol you will be on, on a certain day?

Thanks for the replies, as I said, you can have your job. Maybe you need to invent some sort of "Jump Suit" that you can get in quick depending on the call??? I understand that a routine patrol, done for 10 years without a problem, can turn bad in a split second and you may need all that stuff but is it really required? Seems your gun and cuffs would be enough in 95% of the stops.

Joe

Joe

Smaller-statured cops get creative. Taser goes on a drop'leg weak side holster. one cuff case over each kidney.
The only optional stuff I listed was my phone and my BUG. i forgot to add my frisk and fight leather gloves with the cut-resistant lining. Some officers only carry one pair of cuffs, and mooch additional pairs from other officersduring multiple arrests.
The continuum of force has lots of stops on it between a dopeslap and shooting someone. OC, ASP, Taser are required, not optional.
Even BatMan had a utility belt.

I'm not a LEO, but since no one mentioned it, LBE type suspenders meant to be worn with police duty belts are in fact sold by several companies. There is also a device, which amounts to a hose, that attaches to the car's AC that can placed down your shirt to cool you when wearing armor.

Lets put it this way, I lose 25+ pounds each and every working day...lose it when the whistle blows. Boots, belt (and all attendent gear) plus the vest. This stuff gets heavy, eats up a lot of valuable space in the patrol car and bangs into dang near everything. Watch a unifrom pick a place to sit, usually they'll shy away from armed chairs (it is a royal pain in the ribs to sit in an armed chair if you catch your holster on the arm).

Someone mentioned foot chases. Yeppers, lets me know I'm still in OK shape when I can still chase after and sometimes catch the fleet footed tennie runner wearing punk . Now pushing 50 I don't catch as many as I used to in the foot race, but I still do. Maybe my still being able to catch a few is the result of too much Nintendo on their part .

Try strapping on 25 to 30 pound rucksacks and doing a few wind sprints, then go for a nice long run, make sure to include hopping a few fences on the route just to get a little taste.

Yea, my back hurts a little now and then.

Like LT, I am a supervisor as well. I go out in the field and work alongside my troops, doing the same routine they do. Yes as supervision I don't have to do that, but I do because my troops need to know I'm not just talking out my ***. Plus, it keep me current with what they're seeing. Maybe I should be delegating the foot chases....hmmm

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Non illegitimae carborundum

Not a LEO here. But I can tell a tale of woe from a deputy sheriff. My agency (local govt, not LEO) uses the same radio shop as SO. One time there I met a deputy I know who was supervising a radio install in his patrol Camaro rocket. His dept thought they would be good to catch taillights. He invited me to enter the Camaro. It was a squeeze in and climb out. And I was wearing no gear. Then my deputy friend said imagine climbing in and out many times a day with gear. No thanks I said.

Sitting in the cruiser all day with my duty belt does not bother me or my back at all. STANDING for long periods of time with it does wear on the lower back pretty good though.

Thanks to where I work and the needs of the job, I can sometimes take the minimalist approach - gun, spare mags, cuffs, BUG (+ spare ammo for it) - although I usually have this stuff, too - OC spray, flashlight, phone, radio, and occasionally a baton. The biggest luxury my job affords me is the option of using a shoulder holster. It makes a HUGE difference when I use it since my pistol and two spare mags are supported by my shoulders, not my hips. Plus the tie downs act a bit like suspenders, helping to support my belt. It also makes getting in and out of cars MUCH easier, and it keeps my gun out of the mud.

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

Duty belt and gear didn't bother me too much. Whilst working I had a 36" waist. That allowed for pistol, handcuff case immediately behind holster, radio, ASP or PR-24, and cell phone. Kept extra cuffs on spotlight handle with flexicuffs tucked into B-pillar trim. Carried only a small container of pepper spray and flashlight was in car on an "as needed" basis. (No flaming, please, it was readily accessible and in a charger/holder.)

The key, at least for me, was NOTHING in the lower back area. Quite uncomfortable when sitting; even more uncomfortable if down on your back. Inaccessible, too.

Be safe.

I am not LE, but do work security and carry the same equipment. It is a pain. Getting in/out of a vehicle is the worst, thankfully I no longer have to do that much. My gear is a little old school in that I carry a revolver, and no taser. Not allowed for liability reasons. I have been carring this stuff (with variations) for about the last 16 years. Clockwise from buckle:
Single speedloader
S&W M25-5 in an old Safety Speed breakfront holster (thanks to forum member rbbt)
first set of cuffs
glove pouch with medical quality nitrile gloves
second set cuffs
Streamlight strion flashlight
canister of pepperspray
Kenwood radio
ASP baton
two more speedloaders

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Formerly know as Lucky Derby

I thougt that was the reason behind the gun

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Forum consigliere

I wonder if this is just a result of "the law of incremental change." That is, one hundred years ago the LE community started with a sturdy belt, a sidearm, and some bullet loops, and that was OK. Someone said, well, let's put those cuffs in a little leather case, and that was fine, it was just a little bit more weight on the belt, so that was added on. Then the baton. Then the flashlight. Then the cell phone. At each stage, the particular increment was not large, and so it was easy to say, well, it's just a few more ounces.

There is a certain momentum that keeps things going in a certain direction, so it makes sense that the LE community continues to wear its tools this way... even though, looking at the total system now, it seems out of whack. Can't imagine why someone hasn't stepped back and completely redesigned the LE uniform and tool system.

Reminds me of a video I saw online the other day about a start-up company that is trying to take a chunk of the patrol car market. They took a look at the Crown Vic and changed a few things right off the bat: they built the top lights INTO the actual top of the car, so there is no wind resistance and no screws and bolts to rust, etc. And they changed the rear door, used long pivoting hinges so that when the door is opened, it comes around almost against the rear panel, making it so much easier to get prisoners in and out.

Watching that video, I kept thinking, why the hell hasn't Ford thought of this a long damned time ago? We are the prisoners of thinking "the way we have always thought."

As I advanced in my LE career, I cut down on the amount of junk I carried on the "Bat" belt. By the time I retired, I carried (clockwise from buckle) 2 ounce can of OC spray, belt keeper key ring, level II holster/Glock 21, belt keeper, nothing at the small of my back, handcuff case (I learned as a rookie how to cuff with my "weak" left hand), belt keeper, radio, and single mag pouch. Everything I carried was nylon, and I used a velcro underbelt to hold everything in place. I carried a 642 on an ankle holster and a Surefire polycarbonite flashlight in my back pocket. It was still about 20 pounds of stuff, but it was a lot lighter than leather gear I carried earlier in my life. I also learned long ago to keep nothing at the rear of the belt; sitting on a handcuff case for 8 hours in a patrol car is a recipe for back ache.

I was in uniform back in the late 70's and we wore no body armor back then in my agency becaues we didn't have any. My Sam Brown belt had a S&W M10HB in a Don Hume Border Patrol holster. Besides that, there was a dounle dump pouch and a flashlight ring and a handcuff case. That was about it I believe. I don't see how guys and gals can run or fight with all that stuff hanging on them now. I would fear that if I fell down I couldn't get up. The vest is a very good thing though.

Sounds like you guys need a job like Tom Selleck as Jesse Stone. He wears a sport coat, baseball hat, jeans, boots, and pistol. And he still gets the pretty girl in each episode at his age. He must have a Viagra pouch somewhere on that belt.

That's funny. In the books, Jesse is about 20 plus years younger.

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All Rights Reserved

I was lucky most of my LEO was Narcotics mostly undercover. I carried a snubie 38 in the boot and a slap jack in the other with a speed strip in the pocket. Pretty basic

Safearm explained it correctly. When I started as an LEO like every new one I had every gizmo you could think of. Leatherman, double cuff case, baton hindi-cap, you name it. The officer training me had 30+ years on and basically just the bare bones minimum. I thought he was just old, technology had just passed him, etc. Now, after numerous years in, I am down to the "bare bones minimum". Your back, knees and hips take a pounding.

I dumped the MagLite long ago, and the double cuff cases, and the boot knife, and the big key ring, and the sap gloves and the side handle baton. I would dump the Asp in a heartbeat, if it wasnt required on the street. Some of my fellow LTs, and Capts, carry gun, one spare mag, and a pair of cuffs.They also never leave HQ. I no longer carry a long gun in the trunk. Well, sometimes.

I've been a cop for 3 years and am only 24 years old and I can already tell my back will be a mess. I think the biggest problem is those damn cages. If I could adjust my seat more I would be a lot more comfortable. And as much as I love it, that damn 5946 isn't helping much either.

Loadbearing suspenders are available with breakaway snaps, but they're mostly only seen in the Northwest. A few departments are starting to go to external body armor carriers with gearpouches built in, but tradition plays a bigger part in uniform selection than practicality does.

Safariland came out with a "Levitation" belt that was supposed to prevent pressure on the hips. Don't know how it worked out; it was a proprietary system so I doubt it was adopted on a bid basis.

Maybe I shouldn't put this out there but keep it to myself, design a system, and get rich. Couldn't you have a system where you retain the outside duty belt but have it attached to a set of load bearing suspenders that rode under the uniform shirt? There could be small horizontal slits in the shirt, above the belt line, that the straps could feed through. This way you would have the support help of your shoulders but less chance of someone grabbing the straps during a scuffle.

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All Rights Reserved

My L-4, L-5, S-1 spinal fusion is healing quite well right now, thank you, after 30 years of police work.

I wish at age 19, we had the nylon gear and SUSPENDERS,(under the shirt, over the vest) which I wore the past three years, to keep that weight off of my sciatic nerve/lower discs. Ask anyone in law enforcement, it kills.

Other pointers for our newer LEO's, keep as much of your gear forward of your sides as possible, nothing in the lower back, keep your wallet in your shirt. Work out often and use proper ergonomics when lifting, (yeah...right, some limp or combative 230 pound drunk transient that you have to pour into your back seat...) Take care of yourselves, Waistgunner

Just take your black nylon adjustable suspenders and full uniform to a qualified tailor and they put the small holes in the front and back of the shirts for you. The belt loops on the bottom of the suspenders stick out and around your duty belt...it works, that is how our department allows their usage. WG

I knew it. Day late, dollar short.

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All Rights Reserved

When I started in '83 we carried the 681 in a level 2 holster, baton ring, cuff case and a 12 round loop loader. State was real picky about allowing any thing else on the belt. I just went back to work part-time with a small dept. and carry from right to left; double mag pouch, Glock 21SF in a Safariland ALS holster, Ring for the Maglite, handcuffs on a strap, Streamlight TwinTask 3c in leather carrier, radio, baton ring w/old school wood stick, pepper spray and 2nd set of cuffs in an open case. I still use the 5 cell Maglite at night because I can tuck it under my left arm and read licences or illuminate my note book when writing and find it works much better this way than the short lights. Even with all this **** suspended from my middle I did catch a 17 yoa female shoplifter last month in a foot pusuit. Not to bad for a 53 year old geezer.

And if you happen to be a water cop, add in the life jacket. I have been using the suspenders for 7 years now, works fine, even at my advanced age. Only real problem I have is when we do our yearly water quals. We have to tread water in full gear for five minutes before we can inflate our PFDs. I can swim 5 miles every day without gear, but that treading water with 20+ pounds on is murder.
I also use the left suspender strap as a point of attachment for my knife, point up. Sheriff does not like it, but I keep pointing out that I might have to cut a line really like now (it has happened). My automatic knife is on my belt just behind my mag pouch on the off side. I also do not carry extra cuffs any more, and only one mag. No stun guns, have to carry the pepper spray which is the kind that turns to mud on your face and so is twice as heavy as the regular spray. I also cary a 14 oz blackjack in a tube pocket of trousers or shorts.

Here's my duty load. Starting from the belt buckle and going clockwise, a double mag pouch horizontally at about 1:30, G21 in Safariland ALS holster at 3:00, cuff case immediately behind, then nothing until my Maglite ring at about 7:00 ASP case at about 7:30, Surefire case at 8:00, radio at 9:00, pepper spray at about 10:00, key snap immediately in front of pepper spray case. Duty belt is nylon Bianchi, velcro lined with velcro inner belt.

Backup gun (snubbie SP101) is worn on a holster in my armor straps weak side (shirt is zippered, not buttoned, so it's readily accessible). My biggest problem is stuff in my shirt pockets (cell phone, notebook, lighter, pen). It drags the shirt against my neck, causing occasional neck pain. The biggest problem is the cell phone, but radio comms are occasionally not so good and I want the additional comm capability, just in case.

Altogether, although I haven't weighed it, I'm betting it's 20+ pounds including armor. Biggest thing I've learned is NOTHING at the back of my duty belt. When following this rule, I have no problem riding in the cruiser or sitting in a chair, it's standing for long periods of time with the belt pulling on my hips that gets me. That causes some lower back pain at times.

Bub

I was once told that after gerar and all it is a extra 40-45 pounds depending choice of gear....

Retirèd now. But how about this, when they came out with cages in the car so no one had to sit in the back of the radio car with a prisoner. That cage cuts down the room up front a lot . Now you have to cram your self into the car and feel like your folded in half. Your wearing your duty belt with all your equipment, vest underneath your shirt and your wearing your seatbelt. You are in there so tight your not going any where even if you weren't wearing the seat belt. Now picture getting out of the car quickly when needed. Lol. You need to work out just to have the strength to pull your self out of the car.

I was a mechanic for the PSP and had to install the cage's in the patrol cars. The early model cages bolted to the floor and B pillar and I would install em to give the driver as much room as I could, who cares about the hooftie in the back. The later models had a mounting bracket that used the top seat belt attachment bolt as a mounting point and I couldn't mount em a bit back any more. Boy did I get a lot of grousing about that.

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Stay safe people!

I have yet to find a vest that is even remotely "comfortable".

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Un-Reconstructed Southerner

With all the before mention equipment on the duty belt, imagine the chief hiring a young beautiful 5 foot 4 inch female officer with a 20 inch waist and asking Jimmy to issue her duty belt and all items that goes on the duty belt. Grey hair, winkles, ulcers, and now this

The Hindi Method for the belt is great. Everything is accessible with either hand and everything is in front of the hip bones. So, there is no pressure on your kidneys or back while you are seated in the car/truck.

My handgun is on my right, with nothing behind it, with a double cuff case, then OC pouch, then the buckle. From the left, radio, Taser, ASP, Surefire light and dual mag pouch.

Wearing the Taser for support hand draw keeps your handgun hand free, plus in the crossed raw, the handle is over other items on your belt, which prevents quick access and smooth indexing. Plus, if the gtaser is drawn and the suspect escalates the situation to where deadly force is appropriate, one can drop the Taser while drawing the handgun and get to a two handed grip easily. No, I don't draw both at the same time.

The ASP is completely worthless; all the weight is in the handle. I wish a straight stick or PR-24 was authorized, or a nice collapsable like Peacekeeper or Bonowi out of Germany.

I keep a Spyderco Police model in my front waist band, along with a Kershaw folder in my strong side hip pocket. In a ground fight while most likely trying to retain your handgun, the knife is accessible. My BUG, a Sig P239 in 357 Sig, is under my right armpit. Again, while fighting off someone and focusing on weapon retention in the holster with your strong hand, the support hand can go through the shirt (buttons replaced with snap buttons) and fire the BUG though the shirt.

I've been lucky that all patrol vehicles have been a Tahoe or full size pick-up. I'm by myself 99.99999999% of the time so I have plenty of space.

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Cheers, Charles
SWCA #2442

Sounds like you could use some K9 companionship!

I was an Engineer, and just carried a pocket protector.
But, I do carry an extra 30 pounds around my waist at all times!

Best,
Rick

In this day and age...(Not when I was on) the new recruits train as a fireman, learning how to lug heavy stuff, then switch over as a LEO.


WuzzFuzz

Yep. As I got older and long in the tooth, I let the "rookies" do the foot chasing. Hey, I had to do it when I was a rookie.

I weighed about 28 pounds more when dressed in gear than I did right out of the shower. We did not have much of that silly cosmetics driven stuff, so I had synthetic duty gear that passed for leather as much as possible. At various times I carried a 1911 with 4 spare mags, or a G21 with 3 spares. A BUG (G33), 2 sets of cuffs, various extra things in my pockets etc. I'm not as big as Malpasowildlifer, but still 6'1 and a Crown Vic was on the edge of too small.

Modern duty suspenders are breakaway because of fights. I wore boots to protect my feet. I also carried more because I worked in rural LE, and I could have a lot of time before a second unit showed up.

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NHI, 10-8.

Any one carry plastic ties instead of the second pair of handcuffs ?

It's why to this day I prefer bench seats. I didn't have to do it often but on transports I had to wear all the gear, gun, radio, cuffs, glove pouch, spray etc. I didn't have a taser or asp but the rest was enough. The worst part of the transports was it meant usually you were in for a long haul in that seat. But I'll tell you one thing, I would rather sit in a car then the goofy little seats they had in the hospital with the sides on them when I babysat one overnight.

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Vaya con Dios

I can recall taking off my gear at the end of a HOT day and I would have a ring of sweat soaked clothing all around around my mid section.

I never understood my Departments affinity for BOOTS. Fairly early in my career I started wearing low quarters...other than cold weather. Years later Rocky IIRC started making truly light, almost sneaker comfortable patrol shoes. They were a DREAM compared to stupid cowboy boots!

I swear those thirty two years in uniform is why I now wear shorts, Teva sandals and a T-shirt about eight months out of the year.

FN in MT

A lot of agencies around here are letting officers wear "tactical" outter vest carriers. It's a lot easier only having a duty gun, cuffs, and asp on your belt and everything else on your vest. People will complain about the "military look" of the police, but most cops wear them for comfort.