My 12 year old son passed the NYS hunter safety course yesterday. Since he is not old enough to shoot a deer in the state of NY, I promised to take him on a squirrel hunt when the season opens. This will be the first squirrel hunt for both of us. What load would you recommend in a 12 Ga. shotgun. Do you think sticking to .22 rife would be a wiser choice. I thought that it would be easier for him with a shotgun but the 12 ga. might be too powerful for small game like squirrel. Any other advice would also be appreciated.

I'll vote for the .22 vs. 12 guage, for a few reasons ---

12 guage shotguns are large, heavy, probably awkward for a 12-year old, and have recoil probably off-putting to a kid.

Most .22's (I'm assuming a rifle ...) are more user-friendly, recoil-free, and demand more precision in aiming, all desirable attributes for a young shooter...

Head shots with a .22 waste no meat, shotguns ruin much...

What jkc said, depending on how large/sturdy/strong your 12 YO is, a 12 ga. shotgun may be quite a handful ... er, shoulderful.

A 12 YO kid can learn a lot of gun safety, learn to make their shots count, and have a heck of a lot of fun on the relatively cheap with a .22

Happy shooting, and enjoy your time together!

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Don't need no stinkin' sigline

How close can you get to said squirrels? I ask since tree rats in some areas are more used to humans, and thus unfraid. In other places, the range might be a bit longer.

You could of course put a scope on the .22. Results will depend on how good a shot your son is.

Also, do you want to eat the squirrels or just shoot them? Some people just hate squirrels.

If I were to use a shotgun on squirrels, I'd probably just use game loads from my local Walmart and pick what was in stock, which would be either number 6 or 8 shot.

I'd go with the .22.

I also agree that a 12 gauge seems too much for a 12 year old. I've never hunted squirrel with a shotgun, but I don't think I would even use a 12 gauge myself.

Throw a scope on the .22 to help teach the finer aspect of scoped rifle hunting.

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- The Federalist #46 -

I'm guessing you want this to be a good experience so I'd steer clear of the 12. As for the 22, a big maybe IMO cause those tree rats can be tough to hit even for an experienced hunter.

On a personal note, my first shooting/hunting experience was with a 20 gauge single barrel. I later moved up to a 12 Remington 1100 of my Dad's but it felt good to have "my own" gun. The recoil wasn't bad at all and I did go on my first deer hunting trip with it too. Looking back I learned a lot with that 20, how to shoot, cleaning, saftey and you name it. If he's got a birthday or something between now and hunting season I'd think about it. It could be a good tool to teach him ownership etc and they are fairly inexpensive.

My first squirrel hunting was done with a single shot 410. Unless you're spending enough time practicing with the 22 he'll find squirrel hunting with one frustrating. When my daughter decided she wanted to try squirrel hunting I was able to find a cheap bolt action 410 for around $60. She has since moved on to better firearms but it was a useful tool.

Grew up squirrel hunting and rather do tha than eat. In Mississippi I always used a 12 ga first part of the season when leaves were still on the trees and the ground was dry and nosiy. After the hard frost would change over to the 22,

Most unforgetable morning got 21 squirrel and was out the wolds by 10:00

How old do you have to be to shot a deer in the state of NY?

I have a buddy who has three sons. They all have gotten a deer by the age of 9.

Just curious.

To this very day I use a .410 with anything from #5 to#9 shot whenever I'm in an area where a ricochet from the 22 would be unacceptable.

I shot a few squirrels with a 12 and a 16 gauge shotgun using seven and a half or six shot.
They weren't torn up much even with the 12.

I'd say use of a 12 by a 12-year-old depends on the kid and the 12.
My son and I went looking for a shotgun for him when he was 12. We found a deal on a pump J.C. Higgins that fit him like a glove but was a 12 gauge. He told me he could handle it and was right. He's done well on clay targets and game with that old pump.

In the earliest part of my hunting career, a 12 was all I had. It hunted everything. I could buy #6 shot shells for 8 cents each from the little store up the road. I chomped on several lead shots that escaped inspection. That would have been bad with steel shot. Alas, appetites change but if I were gioing for a mulligan today it would be with a .22. IMO if you don't eat it let it go.

Either use a .22, or better yet, go out and buy him a .410 of his very own to commemorate the event. If that's not an option, don't let him read this!

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Misty

By all means, the .22! Squirrels don't fly and so are not suitable targets for shotguns.

When I went on my first squirrel hunt with Dad and Grandpa, all I had of my own was a 16-gauge single shot - full choke. My Dad, who was not one to buy things for his kids (he preferred they work and earn the money themselves), suggested I have a talk with my Grandma. Her late husband had stored a .22 rifle in his attic and Grandma had told Dad she would give it to me when he thought I was old enough. He helped me install a cheap scope and sight it in.

The lessons learned about marksmanship (only head shots were permitted), and "squirrel hunting tactics" ( ), were a great thrill. I still recall the early morning car ride to the squirrel woods, with all the rifles in the back seat of the car, protected by a blanket. (No one used gun cases back then as they cost money and blankets were something we already had.)

.22 rifles and squirrel hunting just go together.

Agree with this-shotgun for earlier in the year 22 for late season. The kid wants to hit something and to be honest hunting squirrels with a 22 takes some serious marksmanship.. My favorite squirrel gun (one I haven't used if a while) was a mint condition 11-28 Remington in .410 ga-I need to break that one out again.

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Forum consigliere

nothing but a .22 for squirrel

What is the distance to the nearest inhabited area? How densely populated are the surroundings?

Not knowing more about the safety concern or how good of a marksman he is, it's a tough call for me to suggest a twenty-two.

But if you do think of trying the rimfire rifle, please make it something other than a semi-automatic.

What?!?!?!
Haven't you heard of a flying squirrel?

They be kinda hard to hit with a S&W K-22 on the "wing."

I'll vote for a shotgun to start with depending on location within relation to inhabited areas. A cheap .410 or even 28 gauge will fill the ticket nicely.
If the squirrels are "back yard" game, get some "rat shot" for the .22, or some .22 Short CB's from CCI if you are worried about distance.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

Depends on the child. I've seen 12 year olds that can handle a 12 gauge and some that couldn't take the recoil of a 3" .410.

Also, as has been mentioned, the idea is to start him out with a "sure thing" as much as possible for encouragement and positive reinforcement. Unless he's a much practiced dead shot with a .22, chasing tree rats with little lead pills and not scoring can be discouraging, as well as possibly dangerous.

Also, there is a difference in a 12 gauge semi-auto that 'pushes' against you and an old polk stoke single barrel that wallops anyone who shoots it. If he has the stature to handle an available 12 gauge SA, load it as a single shot and start him out that way. Trap & skeet loads are another option.

Even with the lowly .22LR one must be very conscious of his back stop since they can fly quite a ways with the power to injure or kill.

A lot of variables to take into consideration - too many to make a definitive blanket statement about what works best. Depends on the individual's stature, experience, ammunition used, and the area to be hunted for starters.

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Qui plantavit curabit

I know I just posted three rows up, but I wish I would have added that some 7½ light trap loads and a 12-ga would be what I would him start with. Something like the Remington STS12LR which is a light recoil load doing 1100-fps.

http://www.remington.com/products/am...remier_sts.asp

For all the reasons stated above: I'd stick with the .22. He can graduate to something larger/more powerful when he gets good with the aforementioned .22.

Regards,
Arkdweller

I agree with the .410 advice, IMO it is the way to learn. A friend's father could throw an empty can w/a bit of sand a long way. After a few rounds of can shooting, it was off to the woods.
The .22 is a fair alternative but you must watch your backstop carefully, not easy to do when you have a nice silhouette of a squirrel on a limb.

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

Here in Eastern MA the method, by law, is shotgun. You can use an air rifle or air pistol also. A good airgun is deadly and nice and quiet so you don't spook all the other potential targets.

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John

I started hunting on my dads land at 10-- not supposed to until 14 in those days---ah don't tell anyone---oh yea I am on a forum. I grew up in NY and used a 22 for sitting and waiting for squirrels to come to me and a 12 gauge (#6 or #7 shot) for on the move. On the cold windy-overcast days they stayed pretty close to the tops of the trees where a 22 will fly on past your target and end up in the dude's house on the other end of the block, the 12 gauge had the power to reach out and kill them at 75 to 100 feet up the tree where a 20 gauge or 410 would not be that great at a kill shot without some luck. I shot hundreds of squirrels, rabbits, ducks, geese, grouse, pheasants, doves, and dozens of deer and turkey out of my trusty (first gun) 870 Remington with the 30 inch full , 26 inch modified, and slug barrels. Upstate NY (not the mountains) is shotgun only county pretty much. I know a bunch of old friends that had nothing but shotguns for all game. My 22 was for rat patrol outside the pheasant pens we had, and occasionally for the squirrel that was on the ground with a proper backstop. Oh and the loud-*** frogs by the pond. I got in trouble for that one though--while going around the pond shooting frogs and turtles my Black Lab named Spike (RIP) would follow me while hunting those croakers; well when he hunted frogs by himself--leaving them on the grass half dead/stinking waiting for the lawn mower, my dad had a small issue with that and the fact he was better hunting those dudes then the pheasants he was trained to hunt up. I still don't hear the end of it when I get to shooting the bull with dad about ol Spike the frog hunter. Great memories.

I mentioned earlier I'd use .22, but I have to agree .410 or even 20 gauge would be a good choice as well.

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- The Federalist #46 -

SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY!!! Forty and Fifty years ago I always used a .22 for squirrels but now NC has so many houses I would not shoot a .22 in the air. A bullet goes through a squirrel or misses and then no telling where it goes. Larry

You bring up a very good point. Depending on where you are doing your hunting, this can be an issue. I'm lucky enough to share 102 acres with my brother.. with enough thick tree growth this isn't a concern for me.

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- The Federalist #46 -

I started hunting squrirrel when I was around 12. I had a Remmington Speedmaster .22 I got for Christmas. My father helped me get a scope for it and taught me to shoot. I didn't bring any home often but I got lots of experience in being patient and still and taking time to get a good shot. These were skills that helped me later when I started hunting bigger game. When I did get one or two, it was exciting. I always cleaned them and my mother cooked them for me...she thought they were disgusting.

When I was around 15, I was given a Savage 311 double 12ga, full and modified. That became my everything hunting gun. I used #6's for rabbits and squirrel. I used 00 buck for deer. I got both with that old shotgun. For years after that, I used a shotgun for the little critters. I became bored with small game hunting and considered it a waste of time and only hunted deer.

A few years ago, I was hunting on some private land and the deer hunting was very slow. Neighboring hunt clubs had shot out almost all of the deer when running dogs. I was in the stand one day and noticed there were lots of squirrels on the ground and in the trees. I was going to go get my shotgun but picked up my old .22 instead. I went back to my stand and shot a mess of the bushytails. My hunting buddy and I had a nice squirrel stew the next day in the hunting camp.

I bought myself a Marlin stainless bolt in gun in .22 mag and put a decent scope on it. I quit deer hunting and devoted myself to small game hunting. I found that I actually enjoy it more at this stage of life. Hauling my game out of the woods is easy. The cleaning is easier and I like squirrel if it's fixed properly.

So, I say get him to hunt the squirrels with a .22 and don't take him deer hunting until he gets good at stalking the bushytails and learns to pick his shots and learn that hunting is not just about slaughtering animals. If it were my son, he would have to earn the chance to hunt bigger game.

Keep in mind the conditions of the forest he'll be hunting in. I grew up hunting squirrels first with a 20 gauge Remington 870. We first started hunting on Labor Day weekend when the trees were in full foliage and you couldn't always get a full view of the game. That shot spread came in handy. Then, as I became more experience I graduated to a .22 bolt action with a scope.

As I became more independent and experienced, I used the 20 ga. in the earlier part of the season when the leaves were on, then transitioned to the .22 when the forest canopy became more open later in the season. This method worked very well for my brothers and I in our youth.

.22 if its safe to shoot in your hunting area. Head shots only. Adds more sport to the hunt and gives you a feeling of accomplishment. Blasting away with a shotgun just seems too easy.Unless you have so many tree rats that you can stay busy blasting one after the other.

Lots of practice before heading to the woods.

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SC Army National Guard

12 guage #6 shot high brass.

I think a 20ga would be the best for what you are doing and his age

Get him a 20 Gauge shotgun to shoot in a pump, or double. Get a youth size if he is a smallish size. Even a 22 rifle can be too long in the stock. Just like adults, a good fit helps the shooter. Teach him wing shooting sports like Skeet, Trap, and even Sporting Clays. A shotgun for a young hunter is a perfect one and only gun to get comfortable with. Different guns and hunting opportunities are eagerly awaited after mastering the shotgun on small game.

Thank you everyone, for your input. You seem to be fairly split on the .22/ shotgun debate. I'll have to scout out the woods where we plan to hunt in order to make a final decision.We have .22s and a 12 Ga. but no 20 or .410 . I'll try to borrow one to see how my son feels about shooting it. I'll keep you posted as the season approaches.

I've read every message posted so far, and to my surprise, even though many claimed to be "old school", not one mentioned the most practical and useful firearm for tree rat hunting, the Savage #24. This was first, and my first one also a .22 lr over a full choke 410 barrel, later with many different combinations. I started my sons with that same little .22/410, and have added to it with a .22 wrm/20 guage, a .223/20 gauge, a 30-30/20 gauge, a .357/20 gauge and the last a .17/ 20 gauge. Each and every one came with a groved .22 scope attachment point or drilled and tapped for a better scope mount.
Several of these I picked up used at yard sales, although the last two did cost like rip, but still less than a new pump shotgun. A decent long eye relief scope is very necessary, to keep from getting cut by the scope from shotgun recoil.
The stiffness of the rifle barrel attached to the larger shotgun tube seems to enhance accruacy, and every one I have owned would shoot better than the operator could.
By moving the selecter, the operator shifts from rifle to shotgun barrel, and has instantaneous choice of which he shoots, I think i tis a great system for anyone.