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Old 07-21-2009, 01:42 PM
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Default Can you sound suppress a revolver?

Most knowledgeable gun people will tell you that you can't, because gas and noise will escape from the barrel-cylinder gap.

However if you dig a bit deeper, you'll find that it IS possible. As a matter of fact, the Russian secret services (KGB et al) did so routinely for assasinations.

This is the 1895 Nagant "gas seal" revolver. The 7.62 mm Nagant cartridge has the bullet seated deeply below the mouth of the case. When fired, the cylinder is pressed forward over the back of the barrel, and the mouth of the cartridge actually enters the barrel, effectively sealing the gap. This gives it about a 75 fps increase in velocity over a conventional revolver and enables it to more effectively use a "silencer" or more properly, a sound suppressor.

I picked this specimen up several weeks ago. It was made by Izhevsk arsenal in 1944:



In the deal I acquired 14 rounds of original military ammo for it, but have not yet shot it.

Anyone have experience shooting these little curiosity items?
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Old 07-21-2009, 01:45 PM
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thanks for the info! I love seeing things like this, tell us how she shoots
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Old 07-21-2009, 01:47 PM
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Default It looks like new!

YouTube - Silenced 1895 Nagant revolver (NFA)
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Old 07-21-2009, 01:50 PM
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YouTube - Silenced 1895 Nagant revolver (NFA)
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Old 07-21-2009, 02:07 PM
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I think that lots of .22 S&W revolvers have been suppressed. It used to be the mobs close in weapon of choice.
You get in the barber chair, the barber puts a hot towel on your face, your bodyguards and the barber quietly withdraw, someone steps in and puts a suppressed .22 against your temple, and thatís all folks.

It may not have been perfect, but I have it on pretty good authority that itís quiet pop, pop, pop.
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Old 07-21-2009, 02:23 PM
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The guy that designed that gun was a mechanical genius but has no sense of practicality...yet the Russians adopted it in large numbers. The 25+lb trigger pull, the convoluted method of ejecting the spend shells , the 1 1/2 inch hammer mounted firing pin, the small caliber etc.

That said, everyone should own one !

My 1940 Tula. I have the second 32 cal cylinder for this one.




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Old 07-21-2009, 02:53 PM
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I rechambered mine into 32 WCF, you actually just end up removing a minuscule amount of metal. I reload for 32 WCF anyway, just have to load the projectiles a little deeper in the case.
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Old 07-21-2009, 02:58 PM
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These revolvers have probably the worst stock triggers of nay revolver, they are possibly up to 20 lbs in some models (my wartime production '44 certainly approaches that number).

Look at this Surplusrifleforum.com • View topic - How to adjust the trigger pull of the 1895 Nagant revolver
to help alleviate the issue.

Interesting guns, I see mine as more of a curiosity piece than a serious shooter. As far as I know only Fiocchi and Hot Shot makes modern ammo (can be pricey) though you may find Russian target ammo ( typically a yellow box with black Cyrillic writing and a bullseye target on one side) from time to time which is cheaper.

I expect this is what you have, if your ammo is different than listed I would check it out as actual military ammo is extremely rare (it was supposedly much hotter than the target ammo and modern loads). If you have true military issued ammo other than the target loads it may be worth something (pre-WWII would be an awesome find!).

Some Nagants can use .32 S&W Long as well but not all (mine cannot as the cases split and must be reamed out of the cylinders- these guns varied widely in manufacturing over the many years and lets say "times of troubles" that they were produced).

But for the price they can't be beat, I picked up mine about 7 years ago for $60 and their prices haven't gone up that much since then.

Here is another place to find info:

Njanear's M1895 Nagant Revolver Collection Page - Military Surplus Firearms
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Old 07-21-2009, 03:08 PM
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Belwolf,

I have the yellow box ammo with the Cyrillic writing on it. It's obviously not vintage, but I thought it was military. Thanks for the info!
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Old 07-21-2009, 03:35 PM
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There are two other versions of this revolver, designed by Nagant brothers -- 1887 Swedish Officers revolver, chambered for 7,5 Nagant and 1892 (check model nu.) Swiss Ordinace Officer's revolver in 7,5 Swiss. Both have traditional cylinder-barrel gaps and use nearly identical ammo. The Swedish one was designed for a BP round nearly ballistically equivalent to S&W 32 Long. Remember, this was early in the era of small caliber autoloading pistols and revolvers -- 7,62 Broomhandles, 32-20, etc. Remember also all those S&W and Colt DA revolvers chambered for 32 S&W, 32 S&W Long, 32-20, and once popular with both US military and civilian police.

I have one of 1887 Swedish Officers revolver and it is the best designed and functioning BP revolver I have ever used. It was initially issued to officers that had previously only had sabers. Mine is accurate enough with reproduction factory BP loads for head shots at 100 meters, the distance their fixed sights were designed for. These reproduction BP loads have essentially 32-20 ballistics from 4,0 inch barrel. Actually, I use 32-20 loads with bullets seated a bit deeper because of shorter cylinder. Being made by Husqvarna, it has very well made innards. I did have it worked on to give much lighter SA and DA trigger pulls.

The 1895 Russian Nagants were popular revolvers for assasins, because its report could be greatly suppressed, as well as used by officers for executing deserters and captives. Some day I may go looking for a nice one, made in Imperial Armory at Tula, when best ones are said to have been made.

Niklas
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Old 07-21-2009, 03:41 PM
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Not that I necessarily suggest you do it, but there are quite a few people who fire .32 SW Long and even .32 H&R mag rounds from their Nagants. Just don't use Magtech, which tends to split the brass more than other brands.

There's some controversy among gun writers as to whether the gas seal feature really adds anything velocity wise. Where it may have come in quite handy was that the Red Army apparently liked the Nagant for tank crews for firing out pistol ports. This would sometimes cause the Toke to jam by catching on something.

That gun writers say a suppressed revolver won't work very well never stopped the IRA (and others) from suppressing other makes of revolvers (including Webleys, Colts and S&Ws) and using them.
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Old 07-21-2009, 04:44 PM
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Generally you cannot suppress a revolver because of the barrel/cylinder gap, too much gas escapes to allow for effective suppression. The Nagant is the exception, however, why anyone would want to go to the time, trouble and expense to suppress one of these is beyond me.

To the best of my knowledge, the only effective and legitimate suppressed revolver was one developed by Knight's Armament back in the early-mid '80's, IIRC. It was based on a Ruger GP100 and never got past the prototype stage.
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Old 07-21-2009, 05:12 PM
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Well, "western" ideas of cost effectivesness seldom "infected" Russia in its later years or Soviet Union ever.

There are many reports of another rather effective sound suppressor -- a pillow. Wrap it around a revolver and press barrel against selected area on target.

Niklas
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Old 07-21-2009, 06:09 PM
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I have seen one example of an adjustable barrel Dan Wesson (in 38 spl caliber) that was modified for fitting with a silencer.
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Old 07-21-2009, 06:27 PM
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32 ACP conversion cylinders are available.
Cylinder .32 ACP Replacement M1895 Nagant Revolver - $69.00 : Buymilsurp.com, Your source for military surplus.
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:02 PM
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Knight made a supressed wheelgun, think he used a Ruger as the base for it, guess it worked but was a ton of $$

if I recall there were some cartriges made that were supressed themself, forget how it worked
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landpimp View Post
Knight made a supressed wheelgun, think he used a Ruger as the base for it, guess it worked but was a ton of $$

if I recall there were some cartriges made that were supressed themself, forget how it worked
I seem to recall this - I think it used a Redhawk as the base, and it was HUGE!

Regards,

Dave
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALADIN85020 View Post
Most knowledgeable gun people will tell you that you can't, because gas and noise will escape from the barrel-cylinder gap.

However if you dig a bit deeper, you'll find that it IS possible. As a matter of fact, the Russian secret services (KGB et al) did so routinely for assasinations.

This is the 1895 Nagant "gas seal" revolver. The 7.62 mm Nagant cartridge has the bullet seated deeply below the mouth of the case. When fired, the cylinder is pressed forward over the back of the barrel, and the mouth of the cartridge actually enters the barrel, effectively sealing the gap. This gives it about a 75 fps increase in velocity over a conventional revolver and enables it to more effectively use a "silencer" or more properly, a sound suppressor.

I picked this specimen up several weeks ago. It was made by Izhevsk arsenal in 1944:



In the deal I acquired 14 rounds of original military ammo for it, but have not yet shot it.

Anyone have experience shooting these little curiosity items?



now thats a SERIOUS looking firing pin!
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Old 07-22-2009, 12:01 AM
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I have a book 'the pictorial history of Vietnam' that shows a tunnel rat coming out of a tunnel with a suppressed S&W revolver (if memory serves), I will try to dig it out and scan/post. I can't imagine it did much, but maybe enough.
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:39 AM
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Here is a revolver that used silenced ammunition...cool!

And Knight's Ruger:

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Old 07-22-2009, 12:25 PM
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Kennyb: I've called that long firing pin "The witch's claw" in an article I just finished on the Nagant revolver. It has to be long to reach through the frame to the cartridge, which is pushed forward along with the cylinder. I purposely used a photo of the cocked gun to show it. And it does look weird, for sure!
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:41 PM
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If it were taken out to the forest where the tree falls and no one hears........
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:46 PM
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then the tree would run like hell from that mean looking firing pin
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:32 PM
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I've had one for over ten years now. I also have one box of ammo for it, but have never fired it.

Yes, it is very interesting, but it certainly isn't very practical.
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Old 07-22-2009, 10:57 PM
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I have a 1939 Tula Nagant I purchased at a flea market about 25 years ago. Some sort of bringback from somewhere. After finding some ammunition for it at the OGCA, I was a bit surprised that the cartridges dropped mostly through the cylinder. Upon closer inspection, I found the gun had been rechambered to 7.62 Tokarev.

Considering the thin chamber walls and the pressure of the Tok round, someone would have had to be in desperate need of a weapon to have used this one. I have heard of other examples (Fred Datig mentioned them in the Gun Collectors Digest), but no one seems to know when or where the work was done. It was probably done sometime in the distant past, and it was done crudely.

While some folks who have examined these guns favor Viet Cong or North Korean modification, most of the consensus leans toward the siege of Leningrad. They had plenty of 7.62 Tok ammo, but were desperate for weapons. And you'd have to be in mortal danger to use these revolvers.

If anyone has heard anything else about these, I'd like to know. One thing, these are not US "gunsmith" conversions which happened after the Russian revolvers were mass imported. The people that did that should be forced to shoot their own creations!


Buck
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