Tonight at work I had the chance to talk to a sherriffs deputy and we got to talking about his 3rd generation glock in .40 and about how it jammed all the time and so did his buddies etc, and he asked me how I knew so much about these guns if I am so young, so I told him I am a member here and of the NRA and read way too many reviews so on and so forth, and we come up on the topic of CC and I tell him why I want to carry, which is that I feel by the time LEO's get there then I am probably already dead, and he said he couldn't agree more, that there are only 3 deputies working the ENTIRE COUNTY and they won't ever get any more, and only two police officers in the whole town per shift, and from what he said patrol routes are it would take nearly a HALF HOUR for anyone to respond to an accident in my area! I am really really unsure about this situation, and I think it is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six, I have a wife and two kids to think about. This is a bad situation, I live out of town close to two convinence stores less than 1/4 mile and one of them was robbed and the robbers had been long gone by the time ANY leo's got there we are a perfect target.... any thoughts?

Have a good revolver on your hip and a remington 870 close by at all times.

Practice with both as frequently as possible. Ideally, your wife and kids should be trained to use them as well.

If the revolver isn't enough to stop the attack, at least it gives you a chance to get to your 870 (which should end the encounter).

if I am at the house I have my SW99 IWB with 12+1 and my 638 in my pocket, the 870 has the plug out and full of slugs now and the AR 15 has it's 100rd beta mag loaded up and ready, I just feel like I can't trust the LEO's to do anything but file reports now, what do I do outside of the house? I know I have another 5 months until I can get a permit, and that is what I will do but do I trust the lack of leo's until then???

At least until it's official, what goes truly unseen goes unnoticed.
Always try to plan for an escape route, rather than shot placement.
Shhh...

Our situation here is no different, wait, well maybe worst. Just a few days ago the Philippine National Police issued a a memorandum stating that gun owners may not carry their weapons on their hips because it scares people! You may only carry it in your clutch bag! What the...?! @* arg! I almost fell on my seat when I heard about it.

Jun

Not to make light of the situation, but even if they show up, it sounds as if they won't be very effectual anyway. I thought Glocks never jammed???

So, you have to wait how long for a permit? The only wait here or in NV is the processing time of 4 to 6 weeks, during which they run the FBI check on you. Maybe befriending the cop will help your cause and result in a quicker response should it be needed? Just tread lightly until you get the permit. good luck!

Hey, at least he was honest and agreed that it would take quite a while to get to you and was supportive of you carrying.

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NRA Endowment Member

I'm missing something here. NOW you're afraid? What changed? It has ALWAYS been true that when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. It makes a difference that it's half an hour rather than ten minutes? Some places have more criminals than others, some places discourage criminals rather than encourage them, some places have police who encourage the citizen to defend himself and some don't. But the different locations are all stuck with the facts of life - most criminals act when the police aren't there.

Police are around to pick up the pieces and investigate, and sometimes mediate disputes that haven't escalated yet. Anything else, while certainly welcome and appreciated, is just gravy.

Sounds like you are in a place where the police and the law are not stepping on you. Congratulations!

I agree 100% with the post above. I don't depend on the police or anyone else for that matter for my family's safety. I am personally responsible for my own welfare as well as my family's.

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I drank what? - Socrates

Is Alabama an open carry state?

Our County Sheriff has always be very open about this. At any given time there is ONE patrol car covering the county. If you call for help rest assured help will come, but your expected to hold your own until that help arrives. They do have one extra patrol on standby, but at best they are 20 minutes away.

I live about 40 minutes outside of one of the largest cities in the world. Our PD only works days, and some weekend nights, and there is one trooper covering about 70 square miles after dark. Code 3 response time can easily be 20-25 minutes. Calling the volunteer FD would garner a quicker response at night. The flip side of that is that there is almost no violent crime here. The department I was on was in a city that bordered the BIG city. The response time was much lower, including many specialized units, but the likelyhood of real crime was much greater.

So, it's not about not trusting the PD with your safety, they are doing their best. Everytime they're making a traffic stop, the officers/deputies/troopers are not just looking to write a ticket, they're keeping you safe. More drugs and guns are seized, and wanted people caught in traffic stops than you know. The police just can't be everywhere at all times, and it's everyperson's obligation to take care of themselves and their families regardless of who shows up and how fast. Even with a very quick response time(think less than a few minutes), people still fall victim to crimes in that time, and sometimes they can't call at all. Keeping your family safe isn't just about firepower. It's about having a monitored alarm system, good neighbors who will watch out for you as you should for them, and keeping your mindset in the right place. Lock your doors, lock your cars, don't leave ladders, etc around for the BG's to use to gain entry to your house, have motion sensor lights around your house, etc. Also, don't advertise that you have guns, lots of money, jewelry, etc at your house.

About a year ago a farmer in the county went west to elk hunt just before corn harvest. His wife got a call that started "who is combining your corn? I thought he had gone hunting." I was 11 oclock at night when she got to the field. Response time from the sheriff was three hours.
She had to face off the harvest crew --in the wrong field, not criminals-- but who 1) Didn't believe her 2) wanted to leave with the grain they had in the truck. Fortunately an off-duty town policeman came and defused the situation.
Farmer wasn't happy. Policeman wasn't happy. Harvest crew wasn't happy. Local citizens were not happy. Lame duck sheriff resigned the next week and left the state.

During a report writing class for police trainees we were told it was our job to respond to the scene, gather facts, record those facts in a report and pass that report to the detectives to use in their investigation.

By the time we get there the deed will have been done and the perps gone. Rolling up and catching the perp in the act rarely happens.

Then, said the instructor, "Not everyone in society gets a bodyguard, and there are many more citizens than police. It falls to the citizens to protect themselves until the police can get there."

Words of wisdom I heard in 1980. I remember it clearly, as I had always been a believer about self defense. My opinion remains the same today; it doesn't matter what side of the badge I'm on.

This leaves only one question in my mind - What are the police going to write about you after they roll up on your crime scene? You have a very basic choice. Will you be the victor or the victim? Will you be the one that leaves the scene or the one that is left on the ground? That choice falls to each of us.

I plan on being the leaver rather than the left should my time come.

The safety and security of your family and your home is totally your responsibility. It has always been this way in this country, and hopefully always will be.

Even though violent crime gets the headlines, fire is your family's biggest threat. Evaluate your home and train yourself and your family on how to deal with smoke and fire. Once you have a workable plan, then move on to crime prevention.

Keeping safe from a criminal attack is best accomplished with a multi-layered defense. And this defence starts with situational awareness.

You and your loved ones need to understand what constitutes a high risk environment, and minimize or eliminate your exposure to these environments.

Ex: Wife should never go to the store alone after dark.

Always lock car doors.

Never broadcast personal plans (going on a trip, working 3rd shift, etc.)

Stay the hell out of bars and nightclubs.


Next is physical security.

ex: Fence your property and gate the driveway some distance from the house.

Get an electronic security system

Install driveway annunciators

Cut bushes and hedges away from house and driveway.

Install motion lights

Install kick proof doors and lock jambs, along with deadbolt locks.

Motion activated camera systems are available for under 100 bucks if you alreqdy have a computer, this gives you a view of what happens when you aren't around.

The police will do everything they can to help, but their role is usually in identifying repeat offenders and tracking them down after crimes have been commited.


If you are relying only on a gun to protect yourself, then you only have a last ditch plan for personal protection. You need to concentrate on keeping the threats further away than handgun distance.

My thoughts exactly. Read my sig line and you'll understand.

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MARK

Words of truth, common sense, and wisdom indeed. Maybe that's why the pogues in Washington can't seem to understand it.

They are strangers to truth, they obviously have no common sense, and 'wisdom' applies to them only in the fact that some of them have teeth by that name . . .

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Qui plantavit curabit

It has all been said already. The police are there only after something has happened. That is the way it has always been. They are more of a reactionary force. Make sure you always have a gun close by or on you and make sure your family can use the guns they have at home if you are not there. When you are able to get your concealed carry permit, do so. The thing about carrying concealed is, if it is hidden no one will know that you have it. I am not telling you to break the law. I am telling you the decision is up to you. You have to do what is best for you and your family.

On a side note, I have been shooting Glocks for over 10 years and I have never had one jam. I have done all kinds of things to make them jam and couldn't. I limp wristed and even went almost 10,000 rounds without cleaning.


snakeman

I would hope he didn't really question your knowlwedge of firearms because of your age-thats condescending..The only recommendation I have is practice safe handling-review safe handling periodicaly, be aware of your surroundings-and the consequences of an accidental discharge (like kinds in the other room). Don't take your pistol for granted-I know quite few pistoleros who are expert shots (instructors even) that have blown holes in closet doors, or TVs etc. Look at the number of macho tough guys who wave guns around at gun shows.
I can always teach someone to shoot accurately-given practice and ammo. But one safety mistake can end it all.

The response time is what is and there is little you can do to change that short of possibly moving, and even then it's not a sure bet. So, some miscellaneous thoughts:

- The firearms you have are fine for the task

- Resist the temptations to run out and buy new 'better' firearms until you become proficient with the ones you have

- Get some training with the firearms you already own. Learn them inside and out so that their use becomes second nature

- Practice with the firearms you have on a regular basis

- Practice situational awareness until it too becomes second nature and an ingrained behavioral habit

- Teach your wife and child (if age appropriate) situational awareness

- If in the budget consider one of the shooting/self-defense schools which deal with All the aspects of using a gun for self-defense - including mindset, situational awareness, legal, tactics, after shoot action etc. I think Massad Ayoob's LFI-1 course is some of the most value-add 40 hours of instruction you can get, but there are others out there as well.

- If not in the budget, consider other means of self-education on the above aspects of self-defense with a gun. Books, articles, DVD's.

- Have a cellphone with you when out and about

- And finally, don't obsess over 'what may happen'. With practiced proficiency in self-defense, confidence in mindset, and alert situational awareness there is no reason to live in constant fear. You cannot control what the 'other guy' 'may' do, you can only control how you act. If you obsess about this type of thing the quality of your life will be miserable. Education, training and practice give rise to confidence and proficiency, confidence and proficiency help to assure that you make good decisions if the time ever comes when they are needed.

- Ok, double finally , Reality check. The whole of this subject can be overwhelming, if for no other reason than a budgetary one. Not everyone can run out and pay for the latest training. Do what you can with what you have. Practice with what you have now. If you can only afford 20 rounds per week, then do that, practice with 20 rounds per week, each week.You may be able to find some of the books and dvd's at the library or at used book stores as well. The important thing is to build your confidence and proficiency, and that doens't always have to be a high cost endevor.

The police situation is WAY better where I live (I know from calling them) and I STILL wouldn't trust my life to police "protection" of individuals. I wouldn't trust my personal protection to the police if I lived across the street from the station.

A LOT of things have to work without errors in order for you to be "protected" by the police, from your phone, to the police officer who's allegedly going to show up and "protect" you. A failure at any point in the process can result in NOBODY showing up.

Of course, even if EVERYTHING works PERFECTLY and the police are driving past your house when they get the call, I guarantee you that somebody can stab, beat or shoot you to death before they even have the physical ABILITY to intervene.

On the other hand, the 911 operator could just demand that you put your assailant on the line as a Detroit 911 operator did when she demanded that a woman put her husband on the phone after she called to report that he'd just shot her in the abdomen. The other possibilities for failure are simply limitless.

Police have no legal duty to protect individuals.
Police have no legal liability when they fail to protect individuals.
Police have virtually no physical ability to protect individuals.

When your life is in danger RIGHT NOW, you're going to protect yourself or you're not going to get protected at all.

Great advice, along with the Shhh.

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Memory of Randy Freas-Rimfired

Pretty much everything has been said but I have a few also.

Does your wife know how to shoot?

Get a Dog if you do not have one. And this is for real, from some crime prevention expert. Buy some really really big dog dish and play toys, bones. Leave them in the front yard. Crooks hate dogs. Along with motion lights that was mentioned.

JMO but change your shotgun loads to 00 buck not slugs.

I am not a big fan of Glocks but they are great firearms. I have 9 and 40 and would never worry about them malfunctioning

In the event of a emergency call the FIRE Dept, I don't care if you lie and say the house is burning or someone had a heart attack (probably better) cause when they get there in 5 mins you can say you are fine, just indigestion

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Still Running Against the Wind

One thing to consider is that not all of us live in houses, nevermind large ones. I've NEVER lived in a house, my entire life.

I can't afford an alarm system, nor am I going to buy one for my landlord.

Some of us either aren't allowed to have dogs or our situations wouldn't be beneficial to a dog, especially a big one.

Some of us live in small apartments with narrow doorways and halls. A non-NFA long gun is a waste of time where I live.

Think about YOUR conditions and plan accordingly. Don't just blindly adopt procedures developed for a radically different environment than your own.

you know I think I am definatly going to go with the above mentioned 'shhhhh' if my own wife can't tell neither can anyone else, I can't risk waiting

You are making adult decisions now. Make sure you understand the consequences of those decisions.

The legal system will charge an offender with every violation they can dig up if that offender is caught, it is their job. This then makes it cost efficient for the defendant to plead to a lesser charge. A conviction on that lesser charge can result in a lifetime ban on getting a CCW.

Consult (as in pay) a lawyer on these matters before any laws are violated, it is way cheaper before the fact.

Also understand that using a gun for self defense often costs many thousands of dollars in legal fees even for a "good shoot". The figure I see most often quoted is $10,000 dollars a round.

I do understand the consequences of this choice, and I am prepared to face them should it come to that, but I feel my families safty means more to me. I am also of the philosophy that you should look for an escape rather than a shot nothing but our lives are worth dying over

I think you mentioned that the local officers had tac lights on their Glocks? One wonders if removing the light might not solve the malfunctioning issue.

Anyway, make sure you test your Beta C Mag. The manual comes with instructions for how to tweak one. They'll work, but sometimes you have to adjust them in order to get them to work. I got rid of mine and went back to GI type and MagPul 30rd mags.

In a city where I formerly lived, I called 911 over a minor matter. Some kids had climbed up on an advertising billboard and one was now stuck there and hanging precariously. Okay, maybe not so minor. Anyway, I was on hold for five minutes before someone answered.

If you're worried about "things", what is commonly called a "blow out kit", meant for emergency treatment of a gunshot wound or other severe trauma might be useful. If the police are some distance away, it might take a bit for paramedics to show up too.

yeah incase one of your family members need it right, i mean not for the b.g., i just wasted $3 in ammo on the jerk, ill be damned if he is gonna get another $5 in bandaids on top of it. also easier with only one side of the story to tell? IMO

You're entitled to your opinion. The prosecutor is entitled to your opinion. The perp plaintiff suing you is entitled to your opinion. And you just posted it on the internet. If you're smart enough to delete your post, I'll delete my quotation of it.

+100

If you get caught with it, or use it (even in a justifiable situation) it'll seriously make life difficult for you.

Not only will getting a CCW permit be difficult, depending on the situation, even buying a gun will be difficult. Possibly even for your wife since she lives with you, even if she's not involved in any situation.

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- The Federalist #46 -

Well since he specifically said: :"if I am at the house I have my SW99 IWB with 12+1 and my 638 in my pocket, the 870 has the plug out and full of slugs now and the AR 15 has it's 100rd beta mag loaded up and ready, I just feel like I can't trust the LEO's to do anything but file reports now, what do I do outside of the house? I know I have another 5 months until I can get a permit, and that is what I will do but do I trust the lack of leo's until then???"

Then that to me means a "HOUSE"

So I was only offer suggestions to him and not to you and did not criticize your replies. The OP can take or leave what anybody has said. You do what works for you but you did not post the question. A 12 gauge with slugs and a AR15 with a 100 rds and kids in the house, ya thats always a good combo But of course that is JMO and I have kids.

The OP asked for "any thoughts? which is what most everyone offered. You gave a bunch of rhetoric on what the Police can, can't, will not do.

I also think they are better suggestions then illegally carry a concealed weapon which make life real tough if caught.

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Still Running Against the Wind

two words 'locked' and 'gun cabinet' but I am rethinking packing as of yet, I found a good deal on a tazer

The Tazers that are sold commercially are not the same as LE models. In general they're somewhat limited in utility, though an expensive marketing campaign may lead you to believe otherwise. There have been individuals who've demonstrated that they do not go down when zapped and commercial products are available (albeit expensive) that effectively protect against them.

well if I tase them then crack them with a set of ASP's I figure it will be effective but I would REALLY like to have my gun instead

You might want to check your state law to see if carrying an ASP baton is legal. It isn't in many jurisdictions.

It is generrally frowned on by many RKIs to carry/use one unless one has formal/documented training in the use of an ASP. Without such training, it can very easily become a lethal weapon and not a less than lethal device. Such training also goes a long way towards making an ASP an effective tool. (Assuming you have an actual ASP and not a copy, the copies are generally junk.)

Having someone show you the basics doesn't really cut it if it goes to court.

Batons, nucks, blackjacks - all have very limited applications and tend to be troublesome.

For all its faults, a good brand of OC spray and a nice bright Surefire may well remain the best non firearms alternatives.

I thought guns were verboten in the PI...just having ammo could get you a long prison term. Has this changed?

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The Last Standing Knight