A little rant here. Well, maybe not so little. Why is there such a variance in shipping charges? I'm all for capitalism and the American way but for cryin' out loud, charging $50 to ship a handgun is just ****.

When I see what I consider exhorbitant shipping charges I assume, I could be wrong, that the price for the item has been equally inflated.

Shipping charges are a deal breaker for me. I get the impression the seller is thinking "let's see if they'll fall for this", or "maybe I can find someone who just fell off the punkin' truck." I'll pay $20/$25 but above that, forget it.

Simple answer: Because they can charge a lot and people will pay it. It's also a little bit of a bait and switch. They make you think you're getting a good deal on something, but then their S&H cost is rather high. It's simple greed.

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- The Federalist #46 -

Actually no, there is no bait and switch if they are not a licensed dealer.

You see, licensed dealers can ship single handguns by USPS much cheaper.

However, regular people must ship by "UPS Next Day Air" or possibly, "UPS Next Day Air Saver" if it is available to the location in question. Regular Joes like us don't have an option, period. Well, I guess you could take it to your dealer and have him log it in and then ship it, but he is going to charge you for it, and you'll give up anything you saved on trying to ship it cheaper in dealer charges.

Even dealers must use UPS next day air if use UPS.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

If the handgun is going UPS or FedEx, they demand it go Overnite delivery. $50 for that and more is not uncommon. Just plug in some data on the UPS site for delivery addresses and shipping weight, add insurance, signiture delivery, and you can see that a small 5# or less package cost a big bundle to ship. They may add a fuel surcharge and then a delivery surcharge also (for those 'out of the way' places.)

Some dealers have a 2nd Day delivery option they can use with UPS but it is not open to all apparently.

UPSO shipping will generally cut that price in half, but is available only Dealer to Dealer FFL's. Usually costs me around $25 to ship, insure and signiture conf. unless the value is extreme,,then the PO insurance costs will really add up quick and can excede the base mailing cost .

Alot of dealers have UPS or FedEx pickup and just don't want to bother with the USPO option.

If I get my FFL to ship to your FFL, I get charged $30 transfer fee plus shipping and insurance. I would lose money if I offered to ship a handgun for $50

Well, right. It's not a bait and switch, more deception (but kind of LIKE a B&S)... and I'm talking about products in general, not just firearms. It's not a bait and switch because in a bait and switch, they advertise a product for a low low price, but then tells customers that the advertised item isn't available but that a substitute is. So they bait them with the too good to be true deal, and then switch in a different product for not as good of a price.

So in a way, it's LIKE a bait and switch, because they bait you with a low price, and then switch in some extreme handling fees. If you look at the cost of some items you receive, you may have paid $10 for S&H, but it cost only $2 to ship the stinkin' package. So you really paid the seller an extra $8 to stop off at the post office on their way to work.

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- The Federalist #46 -

Some of the opinions expressed here are exactly why you see "FTF Only" on many gun sales ads.

[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(32), 922(g)(8) and 925(a)(1)]

(B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

FFL Dealers:

(F14) Who may ship handguns through the U.S. Postal Service?

Federal firearm licensees may send an unloaded handgun in the mail to another FFL in customary trade shipments. Handguns also may be mailed to any officer, employee, agent, or watchman who is eligible under 18 U.S.C. 1715 to receive pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person for use in connection with his or her official duties.

However, postal service regulations must be followed. Any person proposing to mail a handgun must file with the postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the addressee stating that the addressee is qualified to receive the firearm, and the affidavit must bear a certificate stating that the firearm is for the official use of the addressee. See the current Postal Manual for details.

The Postal Service recommends that all firearms be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. (See also Questions B7 and B8.)

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WAC GOA Life
NRA Endowment

Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms
Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment
UPS accepts packages containing firearms, as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code, for transportation from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code, law enforcement agencies of the United States (or of any department or agency of the United States) and law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency (or political subdivision of any state), and from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law and when such shipment complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient and package.

* Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921,will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air® Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, or UPS Next Day Air Saver® services. (Note: UPS Express CriticalSM Service is not available for firearms).
* UPS accepts firearm parts for shipment, provided the part is not a "firearm" as defined under federal law; the contents of the package cannot be assembled to form a firearm; and the package otherwise complies with federal, state, and local law. (Note: Receivers or frames of a firearm, firearm mufflers and silencers are considered "firearms" and are accepted for transportation only if shipped in accordance with UPS's requirements for shipping firearms.)
* UPS does not accept automatic weapons, including machine guns, for shipment.
* Firearms, including handguns, and firearm parts are not accepted for shipment internationally
* Ammunition may be accepted for shipment internationally provided it is shipped in accordance with the UPS Guide for Shipping International Goods.
* UPS ReturnsSM Services are not available for packages containing firearms.


Follow These Packing Requirements

* Packages containing handguns must be separated from other packages being delivered to UPS.
* Ammunition cannot be included in packages that contain firearms (including handguns). Ammunition must be shipped in accordance with the UPS Guide for Shipping Ground and Air Hazardous Materials, or the UPS Guide for Shipping International Dangerous Goods.
* Small arms ammunition, as defined in 49 C.F.R. § 173.59, will be transported only when packaged and labeled in compliance with 49 C.F.R. § 172 regarding hazardous materials shipments.


About Documentation and Labeling

* The shipper must use Delivery Confirmation Adult Signature Required service for each package containing a firearm, including a handgun, and affix a UPS label requesting an adult signature upon delivery.


Getting Your Firearm Shipment to UPS

* You can only ship your package that contains a handgun from UPS daily pickup accounts or through UPS Customer Centers (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Handguns are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or UPS On-Call PickupSM, or at The UPS Store® or any third party retailer.
* When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.
* You can ship a firearm (excluding handguns), from a UPS daily pickup account, UPS On-Call Pickup, One-Time Pickup, or a UPS Customer Center. Note: Firearms are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or at The UPS Store or any third party retailer.
* See the terms and conditions in the UPS Tariff/Terms and Conditions of Service for information regarding firearm shipments.

__________________
WAC GOA Life
NRA Endowment

1. FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:
1. Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or
2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).
2. If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required or Adult Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments are not eligible for signature release or indirect delivery.
3. Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx Express cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box.
4. Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx Express is required to notify FedEx Express that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm.
5. The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.
6. The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.
7. FedEx Express will transport ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Dangerous Goods section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as dangerous goods. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.

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WAC GOA Life
NRA Endowment

11.1 Pistols, Revolvers, and Other Concealable Firearms

11.1.1 Definitions

The terms used in this standard are defined as follows:

a. Handgun means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm or device the mailing of which is regulated by this standard.

b. Pistol or revolver means a handgun styled to be fired by the use of a single hand and to fire or otherwise expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.

c. Firearm means any device, including a starter gun, designed to, or that may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.

d. Other firearms capable of being concealed on the person include, but are not limited to, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles.

e. Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun that has one or more barrels less than 18 inches long. The term short-barreled rifle means a rifle that has one or more barrels less than 16 inches long. These definitions include any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. A short-barreled shotgun or rifle of greater dimension may be regarded as nonmailable when it has characteristics to allow concealment on the person.

f. Licensed manufacturer and licensed dealer mean, respectively, a manufacturer of firearms or a bona fide dealer of firearms, duly licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury, under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618), 18 USC 921, et seq.

g. Antique firearm means any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:

1. Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

2. Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

11.1.2 Handguns

Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in 11.1.3 and 11.1.5 after the filing of an affidavit or statement required by 11.1.4 and 11.1.6.

11.1.3 Authorized Persons

Subject to 11.1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or the government of a state, territory, or district, only when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person's official duties:

a. Officers of the Army, Coast Guard, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps.

b. Officers of the National Guard or militia of a state, territory, or district.

c. Officers of the United States or of a state, territory, or district, whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.

d. USPS employees authorized by the Chief Postal Inspector.

e. Officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States.

f. Watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a state, territory, or district.

g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of agencies employing officers and employees included in 11.1.3c. through 11.1.3e.

11.1.4 Affidavit of Addressee

Any person proposing to mail a handgun under 11.1.3 must file with the postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the addressee setting forth that the addressee is qualified to receive the firearm under a particular category of 11.1.3a. through 11.1.3g, and that the firearm is intended for the addressee's official use. The affidavit must also bear a certificate stating that the firearm is for the official duty use of the addressee, signed by one of the following, as appropriate:

a. For officers of Armed Forces, by the commanding officer.

b. For officers and employees of enforcement agencies, by the head of the agency employing the addressee to perform the official duty with which the firearm is to be used.

c. For watchmen, by the chief clerk of the department, bureau, or independent branch of the government of the United States, the state, the territory, or the district by which the watchman is employed.

d. For the purchasing agent or other designated member of enforcement agencies, by the head of such agency, that the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee included in 11.1.3c. through 11.1.3e, Authorized Persons.

11.1.5 Manufacturers and Dealers

Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.

11.1.6 Certificate of Manufacturers and Dealers

A licensed manufacturer or dealer need not file the affidavit under 11.1.4, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508 signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms, that the parcels containing handguns (or major component parts thereof) are customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of his or her knowledge or belief the addressees are licensed manufacturers or dealers of firearms.

11.1.7 FBI Crime Detection Bureaus

Handguns may be mailed without regard to 11.1.3 through 11.1.6 if:

a. Addressed to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), or its director, or to the scientific laboratory or crime detection bureau of any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers or officers of a state, territory, or district authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment; or

b. Offered by an authorized agent of the federal government as an official shipment to any qualified addressee in categories 11.1.3a. through 11.1.3g, or to a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms or to a federal agency.

11.2 Antique Firearms

Antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces may be accepted for mailing without regard to 11.1.3 through 11.1.6.

11.3 Rifles and Shotguns

Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 11.1.1e and 11.1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 11.1.1e.

11.4 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms

Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Contact the nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for further advice.

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WAC GOA Life
NRA Endowment

Now that we have all the various laws, regulations and rules posted, the questions still beggars, “Why do some sellers charge so much for Shipping and Handling?”.
I recently sold off a bunch of antique rifles and have some insight into the “Why?” of the charges. The shipping charges have already been discussed as to the differences between common carriers and the USPS.
I used the USPS so that portion was within reason. (Shipping a rifle USPS vs. UPS/FedEx ground is somewhat mox/nix. (except handguns as mentioned earlier.) However, the “Handling” portion was an eye-opener.
For some of the long rifles (Civil War era muskets.) I had to fabricate boxes as I couldn’t find anything big enough to handle them. This consisted of buying two shorter boxes and making one long one out of them. I can’t remember exactly what I paid for the boxes, but by the time I added in the cost of bubble wrap, peanuts, Styrofoam, tape, etc. I had around $20 tied up just in material. In addition I also had around an hour or two putting them together and taking to the PO, etc. I did find some extra long boxes on the Internet that I could have ordered, but their cost plus shipping wasn’t cheap.

Anyway, if I were a business that needs to charge for my time (or pay an employee to do this) I would have to cost it out at around $30-40. (plus shipping.)

Some sellers just include the cost of materials and labor (even shipping) in the sale price and then folks gripe about how they are “overpriced”.
I usually charge a nominal fee for “Handling” just to try to recover some of my material costs, but I usually have to eat some of it. My labor is free, but I’m not a business.

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

So very true!
Add to that my expense of using a glue gun (those glue sticks aren't that cheap) in fabricating custom cardboard boxes and it really spikes the price.
One way I've tried to reduce my shipping material cost is to use my shredded paperwork. I even shred my newspapers and use them for packing.

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WAC GOA Life
NRA Endowment

I found long guns are cheaper to ship by picking up second hand hard cases at Pawn Shops, gun shops, and garage sales, typically for under $10 or $12 and shipping USPS. Seldom does a long gun in a hard case cost more than $30 (It DOES NOT have to go priority, first class w/insurance is acceptable). I don't like making cardboard boxes to ship firearms in and I usually wire the cases shut for security. I normally offer the buyer the option to ship in a hard case for $10 over shipping and most jump on it.

Handguns I ship through an FFL, at $25.00 plus shipping it seldom runs more than $40 total and there's no hassle about your FFL not receiving from a non-FFL. If I charge a flat rate for shipping it will usually be $35.00 for handguns and I will eat the additional $10 as a cost of doing business. Obviously doesn't work well with low cost guns but evens out with normally priced stuff.

I think a lot of people who charge exorbitant costs for shipping are trying to get extra money for their items and, note, there is no auction fees on the shipping cost. Sell it for a dollar with $200 shipping and you pay very little for the cost of the auction.

Dan R

Firearms shipments aside,,extremely high shipping costs charged by some over and above what the actual costs are, is something that no one likes to be the victim of if you don't see it coming. Charging a 'handling fee' on top of shipping costs is usually the term.

It does take time and materials to ship,,especially long guns. Boxes are at a premium it seems. Buying them is an option,,but there goes the shipping cost again. How much is your time worth if you spend a few hours packing and paperwork to send out some items. For some, it's free,,for others it's shop rate.

Determining the shipping cost, if it's not plainly stated in the auction or listing, is one of the first things to be done before making any bid or purchase. It should be plainly posted or available. If not, it's a red flag for sure..

ABSOLUTELY!!! +100%

If I'm selling a $1000 gun, I'll eat the cost. But if it's a $100 gun, I'm not going to "chip in" 20 to 25% of the sale price to pack it up properly.

(And I couldn't find one of those $10 hard cases that would take a M1862 Springfield musket. )

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

I have shipped guns many times at the regular ground rates. When asked what is inside the package, I say "machine parts". It's at least partly true. I can still insure machine parts for the full value of the gun.

Out West

Shhhh! Not so loud!

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WAC GOA Life
NRA Endowment

I had several comments on this, but decided not to post them as Lee doesn't like negativity.

It does remind me of a joke however.

Igor worked it the Greater Soviet Typewriter Manufacturing Commune. One day he decided it would be nice to have a typewriter in his room at the boarding house so he start taking a few parts home in his lunch pail every night.
His buddy Arkady knew what Igor was doing and one day asked him how the typewriter was coming along.
Igor said "I don't understand it. I taken enough parts for several typewriters but when I put them together they keep turning out as Kalasnikovs."

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446