Hi Guys,
I'm looking for a logical argument here. I figured you would be as unbiased a crowd.
Anyway, I've had a .22 for 20 years, but 3 years ago I was handed Grampas '35 Winnchester mdl 12 (16ga). Well, since then I've put a range in the front yard for pistols, a pidgenput in the back yard for clays, a safe in the bedroom, a CCW permit in my wallet, and my first deer in the freezer this year. Some might say I went off the deep end, but I'm hoping you guys will be a little more understanding. My first handgun was a mdl 29. It seems that anytime I dont' buy a good tool, but get one good enough to do the job, I'm unhappy. I bought a Highpoint 9mm just to give myself a cheaper shooting platform. Cheaper, yes, but I hated it. Sold that and got a Sig. Now I'm happy.
I told you that to give a little background and a bit of my mindset on tools.
Here is my situation. My brother's GF needs a gun. Some creep is not getting the idea that there is nothing between them. She is 30ish and small, but a tough person. She races mountain bikes. Think of the required hand strength to control a bike (this is the pedle kind, no motor) down a steep, rough path in the woods. I had her up here and had her shoot my KT P3at and Sig 9mm and then my airwieght j-frame and the .44 with just cowboy action rounds. This gave her a good understanding of gun wieght to felt recoil. She has decided to go with the .38 snubbie, and she wants me and bro to pick it out. The thousands of options she finds bewildering. She will not be recreationally shooting, just once a season running a hundred rounds thru to keep her hand in it. I've decided that a airwieght is the way to go. The less pleasent shooting will be offset by the greater likelyhood of carrying. She does have a CCW permit.
And here is my question. Why a S&W? Why not a Charter Arms or Taurus? I know the fit and finnish is nicer on the SW, and the trigger is nicer. But if she ever needs to really use this thing, all three are going to go BANG. What is the rational argument for the bigger upfront price? Keep in mind, my revolvers are SW's, my chainsaw is a pro grade Stihl, I like nice tools. I've already drank the coolaid.

Issues I see are:
Better fit & finnish = better resale / future value
Better trigger pull = more hits
The BMW dosent' get you to work any better than a Kia

I'm looking forward to your comments.

Thanks guys,
Lop

Smith pays shipping for warranty work, Taurus will not. Every Taurus I have bought has needed warranty work (No more Tauri for me).

Charter has, at best, a spotty record as far as quality goes. If you need an alternative to a Smith consider the Ruger LCR.

In fairness to Taurus I know folks that have never had any issues with their guns, but for my money the better value would be a Smith or Ruger. I think the Taurus M85 series revolvers go for around $385 new, and a 642 can be had for $450 or so, the LCR about $450 also.

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William H. Smith

You get what you pay for.

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Misty

My daily carry is the S&W 642 with Crimson Trace #405 grips. I can recommend this revolver without reservation.

It is light enough to carry daily and yet will handle recoil better than the AirLite series (there IS such a thing a TOO light).

I would suggest one other thing. The revolver needs to be used more than once a year. Once a month is more like it - remember, this is her "life insurance" - it needs to be renewed at least once a month...

Dale53

When your life depends on it, you want it to go bang "ALL THE TIME", NOT MOST OF THE TIME. I have personally seen too many Taurus and Charter arms not go bang. Any gun I pick for self defense will be Smith & Wesson, Colt, or Ruger. There are also some other brands such as Sig which have a fine reputation, but not my preference.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

One failure is one too many for a CCW. Buy quality, pay a little more and have much more. Resale value is another consideration. Make a few calls and see what shops will give you for a used Taurus, Charter or other lesser value gun.

I follow the same line of reasoning as you do. I've gone thru the
same arguments even running a tight budget. ANY tool I get HAS to
be top-of-the-line. There's a reason for it to be the top. Even if we're
just talking about a hammer, when you buy the best, you KNOW it's
going to work, every time!
S&W knows that to stay on top, they've got to make a good product
and stand behind it.
When I decided on a 642, it was after looking at all the other stuff
out there. Nothing else seems to be as reliable. Just my 2 cents.
TACC1

First of all, you sound like you understand "classic". The M12 Winchester is one of the most famous and classic shotguns ever. I have 4, including a 16 ga that fits me PERFECTLY.
But back to your premise, why an S@W for a beginner? Well, I'd say if you want her to have a less expensive, perfectly functional revolver that isn't going to turn her head, get the Taurus. But it sounds like you care for this lady. Personally, in that case my thought process would be to protect her, but look to the future. Lets hope she shoots the heck out of it, likes it, and wants something she sees in a gun mag (leave them laying around) that's a little different from her J-Frame carry gun. Now she wants something else. Pretty soon she's going to shows and becoming one of us. We need more of us, especially women. Now she's an NRA member and cares about the important issues and VOTES. All because you led her in the right direction. Sure, a Taurus or a Charter will protect her, but the good stuff might just make her a lot more interesting.

Another vote here for something higher quality than Taurus or Charter... might as well throw Rossi in that group as well. I do own some cheaper guns, a makarov, a Star, a charter arms, but when I am carrying to possibly save my life, it is always a S&W, Colt, or Ruger. I do own a charter arms revolver, and I have been happy with it, but it will never be more than a BUG, and hardly sees use as that. M-36 and LCP fill that roll.

BTW, I got my M-36 and my LCP for about $300. You really think you can find a quality made reliable firearm for less than that?

The other guys know what their products are worth and they price them accordingly.
Ask your brother what his girlfriend's life is worth and buy accordingly. The answer has got to be Smith&Wesson.

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Dick

As already said, you have to pay a bit more for quality. Plus, I believe in supporting an American icon in the gun makeing buisness. We dont want S&W to go the way of Colt.

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Stay safe people!

if nothing else a S&W will most certainly hold it's value better than the others.

S&W's hold there value, are built to last, offer good customer service.
I could own 6 cheap guns but i chose to own 3 good S&W's.

Go read about unhappy taurus owners, you will find plenty. Rossi's are ok as are Charter arms but they're not a S&W. I would narrow it to S&W or ruger for a new gun, used, then include Colt obviously but they are usually more $$$ than a used S&W.

Agree with previous posts. For personal protection, gotta go with top quality. S&W sets the standard. Warranty, resale value, etc. are all good points. I like good tools too. US made Snap-On ratchet that lasts forever beats Chinese made one any day.

A used 36 would be an economical CCW. At 15 yds I can shoot my 36 double action at 8" plates about as accurate as single action. In a self defense situation you will probably be shooting DA anyway. You can probably find a good 36-something for less than the new cheap brands.

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Revolver luvin' Mountaineer

I think you already know the answer! Mod. 642 or even a Ruger SP101

Hey, that's the two I was gonna say!

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Dick

S&W for quality and service. Look at the M638 also for single action capability.

1. What's your life worth? Does she buy the cheapest bike and helmet?
2. Fit, finish, function, pride of ownership, and resale.

I'd rather have a used S&W than a new Taurus, but realistically, any firearm that functions will work. I would take her to the gunshop and let her look at all of them and decide. Explain the functional and quality differences when she asks about them, but let her build her own perceptions. My experience is that women can intuitively tell the quality difference without a lot of arm twisting. My wife selected a M60 pro, and she could tell the turds without any prompting on my part. Whatever she picks, praise her choice, or she won’t be as confident in it.

One thing not mentioned is the need for a proper quality holster and good instruction. If the holster stinks, she won't carry it and it won't matter what type or brand of firearm she chooses. Some basic training will increase her knowledge and confidence tremendously.

Good luck. An old wheelgunner once told me there are two kinds of revolvers, S&W and all others.

I've always been a believer in the right QUALITY tool for the job as well. Where is quality more important than when your life depends on it? I would never carry a gun with any less than the best quality. Smith, Ruger, Sig, Beretta all fit into that category for me. Taurus and Charter do not. I need to know it will go bang every time. I DON'T need to be worrying about it when my life is at stake.

I have personally used the S&W warranty. They made it very easy for me. Paid shipping both ways (overnight is expensive and required for shipping firearms) got it right the first time, and got it back in less than two weeks.
I've known people waiting months for Taurus to return their guns and some didn't get it back with problem corrected.
Would look at Ruger as they honor their warranty.
No experience with Charter. Would like a .44 Bulldog.
You may never need a warranty repair. Mine was a brand new 37-2 and almost soured me on S&W quality. The warranty fixed that.

Sounds like you answered your own question. Plus, I haven't met many people willing to trade in their BMW for a Kia. For S&W over Taurus and such I would add (1) style, (2) reliability, (3) customer service, (4) tradition.

Thanks guys,
Preaching to the chior. Like I said, I didn't need to be convinced, just wanted all the ammo I could get to talk them into the right gun. What I've got is :
Warrenty- no charge shipping both ways
Reliablity- SD must be best possible quality
Resale- holds value better/increases value faster. Like grampa's Shottie, heirloom quality
Better quality- more enjoyable experince=more/better ability.
Priced higher for a reason- Market would not support primium w/o reason.
Buy American
Pride of ownership
Style

I'm actually going to spot them my 637 & Don hume IWB until they save up the pruchase price. I'd be willing to spot them the $100 if they needed, but not really an issue. She will run 100 rounds thru the gun before she takes it to show both myself and her that she knows what she is doing. Because in a "time of need" it is double action, I'm leaning towards hammerless, although there is a $50 primium on that in our local market right now.
Agian,
Thanks
Lop

Smith&Wesson

Lop...Here one for you. My S&W is not shooting as good as it did 17 years ago. So S&W is going to make needed adjustments/repairs as needed under warranty. Call tag already sent for me to return...all paid for.

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S&W 3914

Yes, you can go buy a cheap made in China wrench for daily use at Sears, and it will do the job. Or you can get a Snap-On. Where will the cheap wrench be in 5 years or so, probably broken, the Snap-On will still be in the tool kit.

Any gun you buy at the shop will go "bang" out of the box. How many times it will go bang depends on the quality. Sure, S&W, like any company, lets a few "lemons" get by, people also have lemon BMW's and Land Rovers, but these companies like S&W will make it right.

Taurus seems to be focusing their energy into semi-auto's, trying to get the "tactical crowd" dollar and their revolvers are spotty. I have an older 80's era Taurus that has issues, it goes bang, but I use it as a shooter just to see how long it will take to break, even then I'm only out a $175 used gun.

As well as being a Smith fan, I'm also a Ruger guy. Rugers are made to SHOOT (so are S&W).

I learned the heartburn of buying "cheap" guns, I have lots of S&W's and Rugers but on a whim bought a cheap Armscor .38 revolver just to see if it was a "hidden gem" maybe a good shooter on the cheap, it was not a gem. A $200 NIB gun, the Armscor was not reliable in DA mode, I "deactivated" the DA pawl on the hammer and now it is SA only, the only way I could get it to function, and I shoot blackpowder rounds out of it just for fun. I should have put that $200 to better use and got another used S&W 10-10 or something, now I have a boat anchor relegated to "non essential shooter-beater status"

Buying cheap will only get you burned in the long run, the only way I condone buying "cheap" is if you already have a few S&W's and/or Ruger or other quality firearms like Sig, Glock and you want to get a Hi-Point or Taurus just for "shoots and giggles" or just as a range shooter or training gun, to keep the rounds off your nicer guns if you shoot ALOT of rounds. Given other options I would NOT trust my life to a Taurus or Charter. Why? Why do it, when there is better out there.

I have PO'd many "Taurus" fans, and I wonder why Taurus even has a "following" other than people trying to justify buying cheaper guns, like the guy who said his Honda Shadow was much cheaper than my Dad's H-D Road King...." and I was like, "Yeah, but you ain't riding no Harley Davidson!!"

Amen! My grandfather always told me, "son, buy the best quality you can afford." He was right.

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195th Session FBINA

Get her the very best, a Smith and Wesson.

Trust me, I too went the" I'm not paying more for a S&W logo" route for the first 6 or so yours of my shooting involvement. Bought Rossi, Taurus, H&R, FIE, STAR etc. Then I quickly found out that quality on most of those brands was spotty. Sometimes you got a good one, sometimes not. ( example: Of the 5 Taurus I owned, two were problem free, 1 wore very quickly, 1 lived at the factory for warranty work and the last blew up in my hand. Nuff said.!) In all cases, finding holsters, grips, speedloaders/extra mags , dot bases, etc was frustrating, expensive and very limiting. Also in all case's resale was pitiful. I still own a (very few) in .22 plinkers but the rest had to go. I won't say S&W is the ONLY handgun to buy but it's likely the best supported, most accessorized, highest value retaining, most consistent quality handgun out there. I've learned my lesson the hard , expensive and painful way. I buy nothing but "A" brand guns now. S&W first , closely followed by Ruger, Colt etc.
Lastly, If you choose to ignore my mistakes, I'll just ask" Is your life worth the few extra dollars?"

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Dave

Whatever she gets, remind her that 'training for bicycle races' is far less important than 'training for saving her LIFE'....and "once a year" is simply absurd....unless she really does have a death wish.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

To look at the other side of the coin, from a statistical point of view, poor health is more likely to kill than an violent attack, so exercise is perhaps more important than handgun training. I do agree that once per year is not enough. IMO, the best way to motivate is fun. She already has suffered the precipitating event (a scare that has made her aware of the need for self-defense). Now make the shooting experience fun and relevant and she will likely become a shooter. When my wife had the 'awakening' she was amazed by all the 'accessories' one needed. She is a shopper, so she was also pleased by the need to shop for holsters, mag pouches, range gear, ammo, etc.

The best thing you can do is make the firearm easy for her to carry within her lifestyle and existing wardrobe. This may mean fanny packs for the bike, purses or belly bands for town, etc. Whatever works. If she is serious she will make it work for her.

Hey guys,
The range is in my yard, so any time she is up here is a potential shooting day, but as my OP said
"just once a season running a hundred rounds thru to keep her hand in it"
I think 4 times a year is ok. To say she needs to be here bi-monthly is setting her up to fail. But to say "come on, it's spring time, lets go shoot" sounds like a plan we can stick with. 'Course then I'll get him to shoot some clays, and see if we can't get some more converts.

I am Sub Sailor and I approve of this message! :-)

H Richard is right on the money. A tool has to work when you need it the most!

If you have to ask-------

Why Smith? Because it is simply the best and comes at a price working folks can afford. You can buy a cheap, piece of junk car just to run to the market but sure as heck, come cold weather, it won't go so you wasted your money. Buy a cheap, piece of junk revolver and when it does not go, you die.

Buy the lady a good, older Smith snubby; 36, 642, 19, 66, the choice is almost endless. Nuts to the scamdium frame, ignition lock 2 piece barrel stuff; that is in the same class as Charter/tarus.

I'll gripe about the lock and MIM parts, but S&W is still far superior to Taurus, Charter Arms, Rossi and in my opinion Colt too. The only product that is comparable is Ruger. The problem with Ruger is their refusal to sell certain important parts to the public and their refusal to work on custom guns.

All said and done, in the end I'd buy an older used S&W revolver.

Dave Sinko

I prefer an older S&W when one is available. When a piece is only available in a newer model, I see no reason not to buy one. S&W is still the best revolver on the market. Ruger is a close second. The only model where I think they probably beat S&W is likely the LCR. And the sp101 is a great model. I just hate to see those of us who like S&W trying to drive them out of business over absolutely nothing being wrong with their new models. For heaven's sake, you guys should be proud of your brand.

man, I was at the lgs today. For exactly the same money they had new airweight hammerless sw and the ruger lcr. Lcr was a little bigger, a little lighter, but the trigger was much nicer. One issue is a problem with the lcr is the lack of a pinky grip. I have a spare houge grip for my 637 that lets the pinky help grip the gun. I find it amazing how much it changes the firing of the gun. I prefer the smaller grip because it carries better, but for a novice shooter, the better grip makes quite a differance. You do have to wonder how long the lCr will hold up. Not as long as a steel gun, but how about against an aluminum one?

NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO SCRIMP ! When your life is on the line you DO NOT want to depend on a Taurus. I've had 3 and they were all junk. Get a 642 with Lasergrips and put your mind at ease. There's nothin better for the intended purpose..............

The Ruger LCR is still a tad bit heavier than the S&W 340 or 342......the reason I said that is I have heard people say the LCR is the lightest revolver on the market today, not true.

The BMW vs. Kia analogy only goes so far: neither will last a lifetime. My wife is still relying on the same S&W M67 I bought for her 30 years ago. It goes BANG every time and will still be protecting her when I am long in the ground. When my grandmother passed on years ago I took a 1920s era .32 HE out of a cigar box in her nightstand. It, too goes BANG (more like POP) every time. This is not a piece of sporting goods. It is not even a tool. It is survival gear. Anything mechanical can fail, but the odds are better with S&W or Ruger.

I have intentionally left Colt out because all of their DA revolvers now have over 10 years on the clock and I have no idea what kind or service they offer on them, if any. When they made them, like S&W I staked my life on their reliability.

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I need ammo, not a ride.

The better question is why not number ___? (must be more than 5).

Guys, we are good to go. They are going for the SW. My specs are: hammerless, lightwieght, under 2", and a 3 finger grip. I can't be the only guy who finds sw modle numbers bizzar, can I? Best as I can tell, I'm looking at a 642 or a 442. I don't want the scadium because I don't need the .357 capacity, and I dont' want the bullet shake issues that they mention in the owners manual. So the 15oz. is good. The 642 and 442 are both "two finger" grips, but I have an extra handle that has the 3 finger capacity. Am I missing something here?

Oh, BTW, I emailed him this link and he read thru it. It was a pretty easy sale. :-) Thanks guys,
Lop

why have a pro grade stihl chainsaw, wont a black and decker cut wood too.