Hello folks, this is my first thread after lurking for a couple of weeks. I recently purchased an S&W "Victory Model" revolver, cal. 38 s&w through an auction. Upon receiving it, I am thinking it is an Australian Lend-Lease, however I cannot find a "V" in the serial number to indicate the Victory model.

I have included a couple of pix from the auction with notations in lieu of taking my own. The grips are stamped with the number13895 on the inside of the right hand panel and both panels have the leter "K" also stamped on the inner surface.

S/N 945xxx is stamped on the butt behind the lanyard ring, under the barrel, and on the cylinder rear surface between chambers. Under the crane, on both the frame and crane is the number 91088.

In front of the lanyard ring is "WB" a small flaming bomb symbol and a small "F". See my notations on the pix for what I find stamped on the right side of the frame.

This is supposed to be an early Victory & I suppose it could be an M&P with lanyard ring. Do any of you guys have an insight as to what I have here? I am happy with the piece as I was looking for something to go with my Lend-Lease Garand, not a pristine collector.

Thanks in advance - I have learned a whole lot in a short time by reading your postings.

Attached Images

	S&W1.jpg (52.3 KB, 267 views)
	S&W2.jpg (39.3 KB, 255 views)

The grips are from the late 60s, early 70s. No center diamond. It has been through an arsenal refurbishing. FTR indicates that but my memory is foggy at this hour and I can't recall what the acronym stands for. SN puts it in the lend-lease period. The real purists call these "Pre-Victories" since they precede the V prefix. Some were shipped with checkered commercial-style grips, but these would be the service style, not magnas and would have a center diamond. I would guess that Vega, the Sacramento company that reimported (repatriated) these guns added the grips if the originals were damaged or missing. No proof, just surmise.

__________________
I need ammo, not a ride.

Buford57 has it right. This would be a Lend Lease gun due to the "United States Property" markings. Once the serial numbers reached 999,999 the factory started the "V" series. There was an initial large number of British Service Revolvers that were purchased direct from Smith & Wesson and these did not include the "United States Property -or later US Property" markings.

Hope this helps.

Steve

Is this a Victory or an M&P?
Actually it is both. It's an M&P in the pre-war and wartime, not so lusterous, trim of the Victory model. Great guns and great shooters.

__________________
Dick

This gun is commonly called a Pre-Victory. It indeed looks to have been an Australian gun. The markings on the frame mean "Factory Thorough Repair", MA=Munitions Australia, 54=1954, L=Lithgow the facilty that did the work. "Vega Sac" on the left frame is the importer, Vega Arms Sacramento California. WB is the army inspector who approved the gun. The number 91088 on the crane and frame are assembly numbers applied to keep the parts together before the gun was finished. The D^D if I recall stands for Department of Defense, the Australian military mark. Hope this helps. John

__________________
John. SWCA #1586

Not much else to add except my research indicates this revolver probably shipping in the Spring of 1942. Best way to know for sure is to get a factory letter.

Charlie

hsguy is right on. I have a similar one, S/N 8333xx which was shipped 10/41. Is a 5" in 38 S&W. Has nearly the same markings. The stocks on mine are reported to be correct, but #'s don't match, are about 80600 earlier. Mine is also marked with the re-importer, Vega. Mine does not have the U S Property on the top strap.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Wow, nice revolvers. I've been thunking of looking for one myself!

Just an update, the WB marking is that of Waldemar Broberg. He was the Deputy District Chief of the Hartford Ordnance District when the gun was made and an U.S. Army Officer.

__________________
John. SWCA #1586

Does any know what time period these were re-imported?

In 1990, I bought one of the Australian Victory models that was imported by Vega. The ad in Shotgun News offered them for sale for $79.95 each. This was a refinished Victory with the FTR markings from a rebuild in a military arsenal in the early 1950s. It was also marked "United States Property" on the top strap that indicates a lend lease gun.

Foolishly, I sold it in 1991.

Hope this helps.

Steve

This is why there is no V prefix. The V prefix came at 1 million but many of the lend lease guns were simply 1905 4th series M&P revolvers chambered in 38 S&W aka 38/200 instead of 38 special. This is because the Brits ordered these when they entered the war and then ordered these guns, it was before1940 (probably 1938 or 1939 I assume) aka before the V prefix. Then came the V prefix guns which included both 38/200 and 38 special IIRC.

Another side note: we established that your grips are unoriginal and from the 60s or the 70s most likely. However, the original grips would NOT be the smooth walnut grips commonly found on victory guns. Since it does not have the V prefix, its a Victory edition of the 1905 4th series and it should have standard diamond service grips with small S&W medallions because like other people have said, your gun was a continuation of the 1905 4th series M&P guns which featured these grips. The smooth walnut plain grips were introduced with the V prefix.

I know this because I had a friend who had one of these with standard non medallion diamond grips who insisted his grips were right so I researched this subject. And now I finally get to put my knowledge to good use!

Thanks everyone for the info! All I need now is a set of diamond service grips, but I would be happy with smooth walnut as well. I took a look at the finish on the frame & it does look as though there is some finish wear on the edge of the crescent cutouts - indicating to me that the ones on it now, covering the cutouts aren't original.

Well, A short education on my pre-victory revolver's history has me wondering if I need another..... I already suffer from "Garanditis", so a touch of the "Victory itch" I suppose is coming on as well.

These Aussie pre-Victory and Victory Model revolvers were being sold at retail in the late 1980's. See the attached advertisement from a 1989 Shotgun News. Note the reference to these guns as "Just released to us from ordnance storage in Australia." So, if that statement is accurate they were brought back to the USA in the 1980s.

The guns are import-marked to Vega of Sacramento, CA. Not sure just what the relationship was/is, if any, between Vega and Pacific International which was also in Sacramento. I am guessing that they are/were related outfits. Maybe one of our California members knows more. (Ed C., are your ears burning?)



HTH.

__________________
Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Uh, not exactly correct. The smooth walnut stocks were introduced well before serial number V1 was produced. Short of a factory letter which would specify precisely which stocks it had originally, I would say that either the smooth walnut or the checkered walnut service stocks would be OK. The original poster's revolver falls into the time frame when production was transitioning from the checkered walnut service stocks to the smooth walnut variety. Thus, it may have been shipped with either style of stocks.

__________________
Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215