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05-11-2010, 04:15 PM
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Success at last with .30 caliber cast lead loads (pics)....
I had been trying to work up some reduced velocity cast lead loads using commercial cast lead bullets, but never found anything that would shoot to point of aim in my 30/30 rifles or with any degree of accuracy. I finally "broke the code" when I started casting my own, using Lee molds with gas checks.
I bought the Lee 170 grain flat point mold for my 30/30, and the 180 and 200 grain LRN for my 1895 Browning in 30/06.
Cast the Lee 170 grain flat nose with straight wheel weight lead, sized with a Lyman sizer/luber and installed gas checks while sizing. Loaded them with 24.0 grains 3031 powder for an advertised 1700 feet per second. This load was accurate in my Winchester Model 94, less than one inch at 50 yards. Best of all, I only had to go one step up in elevation of the rear sight to get "Point of Impact, Point of Aim" hits, with the rifle orginally zeroed for factory 150 grain bullets. So, finally an accurate, workable load for 30/30...
Worked up two good loads for my Browning 1895 in 30/06, both using the Lee 200 grain Lead Round Nose. 32 grains 3031 for 1900 FPS, and 16 grains Unique for 1633 FPS. I'm going to stick with the 3031 load as it shoots noticeably flatter, very little drop out to 100 yards.
My cost per round for these loads is around .06 cents per round, very easy on the wallet!
Here's some pics:
Cast Bullets:
Browning 1895 with Leupold fixed 2X "Scout Scope"....
50 yard group with the Browning and 200 grain bullet and Unique powder, Mexican Peso shown for size comparison:
I didn't take any pictures of the groups using 3031 powder, but they seemed to be a little tighter, I think the rifle favors faster bullets.
I think the gas checks are what has made the difference in accuracy compared to the commercial cast lead bullets (no gas checks) I tried. Lube used was Lyman "Super Moly"....
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05-11-2010, 08:18 PM
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Looks like you're on your way.
You can try varying the seating depth of the bullet,particularly trying to seat it out as far as possible. The action will dictate how far you can and still have a repeater. The throats in commercial rifles are usually quite long and the closer you can get a cast bullet to the beginning of the lands of the rifling the better chance for accuracy,,,,,,generally!
At least it doesn't cost anything to try it. Not like buying different powders and primers, etc.
Some rifles shoot better w/a gas check,,others w/o. Changing bullet lube can change accuracy. The whole game can have you in fits trying to figure out what the rifle likes.
Once you find the right load,,stick with it!
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05-11-2010, 09:24 PM
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That's some good info. Thanks.
I've been using the Lee 170 gr. mold cast with straight clip-on WW alloy with no gas check, unsized and tumble lubed for some very low velocity (1100 fps) plinking loads. I recently used the same bullet and lube combo with gas checks and a little hotter loads (1700 fps) with good results. I've only been shooting off hand at 50' but the accuracy has been impressive. This bullet really works well in my M94 Winchester.
__________________
Andy
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05-12-2010, 12:44 AM
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I'm using a 150 gr (actual weight 157 gr) Lee bullet (90366) with H4227. Here's a 3 shot group at 100 yards.
I used a 3-9X Bushnell scope on a Handi rifle to do this.
Using 16.0 gr of 2400 does just about as good.
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05-12-2010, 06:11 AM
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Paul,
Those are the results I'm hoping for! If I can get 1.5-2" at 100 yards, I'll be happy.
I think my 200 grain loads with 3031 will do that, just need to get used to the rifle and shoot some more groups. Right now, I've only shot about 80 rounds through it, including the cast lead rounds I've been experimenting with.
Back to the melter today, cast up a few more bullets, load up some more rounds, then back to the range.....
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05-13-2010, 12:38 AM
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Here's the same bullet with 2400 at 100 yards. You can see the sight changes I used to get it to a 2" group at 100 yards. There appears to have been some fouling needed for it to finally settle down a few inches high.
It just goes to show how some guns like one powder over another.
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05-13-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul5388
I'm using a 150 gr (actual weight 157 gr) Lee bullet (90366) with H4227. Here's a 3 shot group at 100 yards.
I used a 3-9X Bushnell scope on a Handi rifle to do this.
Using 16.0 gr of 2400 does just about as good.
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Paul5388,
Has Hodgdon stopped making H4277? I see IMR has a 4227. Is H4227 and IMR4227 the same powder? Those are good results you have there.
Cary
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05-13-2010, 11:36 AM
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Cary,
I believe there is only IMR 4227 now. They were both very similar, so I guess Hodgdon decided to simplify things by only offering one variety. IMR 4227 was made in Canada under IMR ownership, but it is now made in Australia, like H4227 was. That leads most to think it's really H4227 with an IMR label.
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05-13-2010, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul5388
Cary,
I believe there is only IMR 4227 now. They were both very similar, so I guess Hodgdon decided to simplify things by only offering one variety. IMR 4227 was made in Canada under IMR ownership, but it is now made in Australia, like H4227 was. That leads most to think it's really H4227 with an IMR label.
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Thanks Paul5388. I went on the Hodgdon Reloading Data site and notice they listed loads for H4227 but they did not list it in their current line up of powders. I know with Hodgdon handling Winchester and IMR powders now there have been some duplicity of powders eliminated and there may be more to come. I believe the two 4277 powders are the same but I think I will drop Hodgdon an email to check. I haven't used H4227 but with your results on the 150 grain Lee bullet in 30-30 Win I may want to. I have that mold as well and shot it out of my Marlin 336C. I think I'm one of those guys who like to experiment with powders and work up loads.
Cary
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05-13-2010, 12:33 PM
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If you look at this site Lever Gun Performance Studies (look in the sidebar on the left hand side) you'll see the GS (group size) for 14.0 gr of H4227 is 12" at 50 yards. That's considerably different than what I got and again shows the way different guns perform with the same components.
Here's a chart of the GS for their listed loads, but your results may vary, as seen by what I got.
http://www.gmdr.com/lever/gs3030w170.gif
If nothing else, the site will give you some suggestions for powders to use and the loading levels they used.
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05-13-2010, 03:09 PM
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Your correct Paul. Each firearm is an entity unto itself when it comes to loads. That web site is a good source of information.
Cary
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