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05-20-2010, 01:44 PM
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Took my 1896 HE .32 to the range today
It's 114 years old and still shoots great groups. I won't shoot it very much with smokeless as it was designed for black powder but I just had to see how it shoots
I'll post a pic of my target when I get back home.
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05-20-2010, 01:58 PM
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Guns like that are time machines that transport us to other times, other places. I have a .38HE Model of 1902 that was shipped about 7-8 years after your gun, and I'm looking forward to getting it to the range one of these days.
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05-20-2010, 02:59 PM
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That's great Twaits! I'd love to have one of the really early solid frame .32s.
Let us see the results from the old revolver.
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05-20-2010, 04:51 PM
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beautiful gun!
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KK4EMO
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05-20-2010, 10:27 PM
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Offhand at about 10 yards with a 6 o'clock hold on the black. Not too bad for that little skinny nickel plated blade shining in the sun. I bet I could get a pretty tight group on a rest.
The bore is less than perfect too with some pitting.
Last edited by twaits; 05-20-2010 at 10:32 PM.
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05-21-2010, 12:17 AM
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Beautiful little gun! Have you lettered it? Any idea who E.V.H. was?
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05-21-2010, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kleinkaliber
Beautiful little gun! Have you lettered it? Any idea who E.V.H. was?
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I have, here's the Jinks letter. You'll note that it says these revolvers were in the serial range between 1-19,712. The serial number sequences have nothing to do with when the guns were shipped. I have another one with a 4 digit serial number that was shipped in 1901. I'm kind of curious when number one was shipped. No idea who E.V.H. was:
Last edited by twaits; 05-21-2010 at 07:39 AM.
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05-21-2010, 08:36 AM
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Really interesting and nice gun! And a pretty good shooter too! I was going to ask if you had done any research to find out who EVH was, but I see it's already been asked and answered. The tales these guns could tell!
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05-21-2010, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlovingirl
Really interesting and nice gun! And a pretty good shooter too! I was going to ask if you had done any research to find out who EVH was, but I see it's already been asked and answered. The tales these guns could tell!
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I wish Hartley and Graham was still around so I could research their records!
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05-21-2010, 12:45 PM
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Nice gun and nice shooting. I say EVH is Eddie Van Halen.
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05-21-2010, 01:26 PM
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Twaits, you shoot it well. It is nice to see the little revolver perform.
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05-22-2010, 11:22 AM
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Pretty impressive, both the gun and the shooting.
"Course, I'm not surprised, either way.
TACC1
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05-22-2010, 08:34 PM
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I just realized I posted this thread in the wrong section! Sorry.
Is there any way to move it or does it matter?
If the moderators can do it feel free. Thanks.
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05-22-2010, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kleinkaliber
Beautiful little gun! Have you lettered it? Any idea who E.V.H. was?
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Kleinkaliber, didn't you buy that first model HE at the Poulin auction?
I'd love to see some pics if you have any
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05-24-2010, 10:44 AM
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My Father-in-Law has a pistol that appears to me to be exactly like this one of yours except with his has a 6" barrel. He sent it home with me a few weeks ago to see what I could find out about it. Serial number is 18,5xx. He just turned 80 yesterday, and for fathers day this year I would like to get it lettered for him. How do you go about doing that? Is it possible to get it done in time? The pistol was his grandmothers, and he says he knows for sure she had it in the 30's when she married her second husband (first husband died). The bore on it is shot, and finish is maybe 50% or so, but otherwise is still in good working order.
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05-24-2010, 11:50 AM
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Go here and you can download and print out the request form:
Smith & Wesson Collectors Association
The above gun was the last one I had lettered and it took about 3 months.
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05-24-2010, 01:29 PM
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Evander Holyfield.
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05-24-2010, 02:49 PM
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More seriously, I wonder if the H could be for Hartley, as in "Hartley & Graham." In the middle of the 19th century a Hartley married a Vanderveer, and the mother's name was carried into the next generation in the name of her son, Garrett Vanderveer Hartley. I think he is a cousin or nephew of Marcellus Hartley, the company founder. If there is an E-- Vanderveer Hartley in the picture in the late 1890s, we could have a link. (Garrett had a daughter named Elmira who was born in 1892-- too young to get a gun four years later. But there are other branches of the family.)
The extended LDS census and genealogical records are down right now, but this would be something to look into.
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05-24-2010, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCWilson
More seriously, I wonder if the H could be for Hartley, as in "Hartley & Graham." In the middle of the 19th century a Hartley married a Vanderveer, and the mother's name was carried into the next generation in the name of her son, Garrett Vanderveer Hartley. I think he is a cousin or nephew of Marcellus Hartley, the company founder. If there is an E-- Vanderveer Hartley in the picture in the late 1890s, we could have a link. (Garrett had a daughter named Elmira who was born in 1892-- too young to get a gun four years later. But there are other branches of the family.)
The extended LDS census and genealogical records are down right now, but this would be something to look into.
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You just gave me serious goosebumps. All the hair on my arm is standing up
This seems like it could be a very real possibility. This was the introduction year of that gun so it would have been the newest most modern gun that Smith and Wesson was producing at the time.
Seems like a good possiblility that someone related to an owner of the business might wind up being given one as a gift.
It would be really interesting to see if any others similarly marked ever show up.
Thanks so much for this bit of information.
Can you give me a link to the census records? Is this free or do they charge?
I just found some of that information on line. I also noticed that a Schuyler also married a Vanderveer!
Last edited by twaits; 05-24-2010 at 03:36 PM.
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05-24-2010, 03:34 PM
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Thanks for the information on how to get the pistol lettered. I appreciate it, and I'm sure my father in law will as well.
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05-24-2010, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twaits
Can you give me a link to the census records? Is this free or do they charge?
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You can get free access to some (but not all) census records here:
FamilySearch Record Search
More complete census records can be found in a couple of places, ancestry.com probably being the best known. But they cost.
Also, check out Google Books :Lots of biographical stuff has been digitized, and there is some Hartley stuff that turns up (including a biography of Marcellus Hartley, which unfortunately does not bear on your question).
Like you, I kind of thought a pretty gun pearl grips might have been ordered as a gift for a family member. Maybe even a confirmation gift for a four year old girl, with the understanding she wouldn't actually get to have it until she was older. But Elmira died in 1911, and I don't know if her middle name was Vanderveer. If you could get into the 1910 census, that might answer the question.
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05-25-2010, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPinTX
Thanks for the information on how to get the pistol lettered. I appreciate it, and I'm sure my father in law will as well.
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Oh welcome to the forum by the way! Please post pics of your gun. And update us when you get the letter back from Roy.
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05-26-2010, 10:31 AM
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Here is a pic of it, not a very good pic but the only camera I had at work was the one that goes in one of my trailcams. You get the idea though. What is a ballpark on what something like this is worth? I'm sure he isn't going to sell it, he would just be curious.
I talked to him some more about it and he said he knows for sure his grandmother had it in '34 or '35, he was 4 or 5 years old then. I saw a picture of my father-in-law this weekend with this pistol stuck in his belt as a young man. He would have been about 17 in that picture, taken about '47 or so. Pretty cool.
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05-26-2010, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twaits
Kleinkaliber, didn't you buy that first model HE at the Poulin auction?
I'd love to see some pics if you have any
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Yes, I did! I don't have a digital camera to post pics with, though. It has the inscription "H.P. Thiele-Aug. 1 1899" on the frame and "Newark Police" on the backstrap. A factory letter states it was shipped to the Newark PD in 1899 with the backstrap inscription, but not the frame inscription. I did some online searching of census records and the 1900 census lists a Henry P. Thiele in Newark as a policeman. Same thing for the 1910 census. He is not listed in the 1920 census, but his wife was then listed as head of household. I did find a copy of his WW1 draft record, so perhaps he did not make it back from the war. Or maybe the 1918 flu epidemic got him?
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05-26-2010, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPinTX
Here is a pic of it, not a very good pic but the only camera I had at work was the one that goes in one of my trailcams. You get the idea though. What is a ballpark on what something like this is worth? I'm sure he isn't going to sell it, he would just be curious.
I talked to him some more about it and he said he knows for sure his grandmother had it in '34 or '35, he was 4 or 5 years old then. I saw a picture of my father-in-law this weekend with this pistol stuck in his belt as a young man. He would have been about 17 in that picture, taken about '47 or so. Pretty cool.
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Very nice!! I need to look in my S&W book to see about that barrel length.
I've only seen them with 3 1/4" and 4 1/4 barrels. I've never seen one that long so it may be rare. Definitely worth lettering either way.
Here's my other one with a 4 1/4" barrel:
Last edited by twaits; 05-26-2010 at 02:24 PM.
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05-26-2010, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kleinkaliber
Yes, I did! I don't have a digital camera to post pics with, though. It has the inscription "H.P. Thiele-Aug. 1 1899" on the frame and "Newark Police" on the backstrap. A factory letter states it was shipped to the Newark PD in 1899 with the backstrap inscription, but not the frame inscription. I did some online searching of census records and the 1900 census lists a Henry P. Thiele in Newark as a policeman. Same thing for the 1910 census. He is not listed in the 1920 census, but his wife was then listed as head of household. I did find a copy of his WW1 draft record, so perhaps he did not make it back from the war. Or maybe the 1918 flu epidemic got him?
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Fascinating. I looked this guy up also, and Henry Thiele the policeman was born in 1870. He would have been in his 40s at the time storm clouds were forming before WWI, so I imagine that the draft record is for a younger Henry P. Thiele I found who was born in 1897. The younger Henry, apparently unrelated to the Henry in Newark, is the son of immigrants and was born in Pennsylvania.
I also found a Henry P Thiele in Essex Co. NJ in the 1920 census whose birth year is reported as 1871. The listing I saw was just a summary -- not the actual census page -- but it looks like your guy to me.
No Henry Thiele born about 1870 ever received Social Security, so he probably died in the 1920s or very early 1930s. I don't have access to the 1930 census, but that's the next obvious place to look.
Back to the gun: The .32 HE First Models came in 3.25, 4.25 and 6-inch barrels. But I bet the six-inch guns are rare compared to the others.
Nice gun, nice history. Very cool.
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05-26-2010, 03:02 PM
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Another EVH possibility
From the website below:
"I recently found an Edward Vom Hofe 355 fly reel in size 3 1/2 which has a flat back with a screw off bearing cap rather than the usual stamped sliding bearing cover. The foot is stamped 355 and 3 1/2, the front plate and crank are EVH 355, and the check button on the back is EVH. Has anyone eve seen an EVH 355 with a flat back and screw off bearing cap?"
Edward Vom Hofe. Part 1 | Antique Tackle Observer
(Edward Vom Hofe was apparently located in NYC in 1896)
Jeff
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05-26-2010, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff in Cincinnati
From the website below:
"I recently found an Edward Vom Hofe 355 fly reel in size 3 1/2 which has a flat back with a screw off bearing cap rather than the usual stamped sliding bearing cover. The foot is stamped 355 and 3 1/2, the front plate and crank are EVH 355, and the check button on the back is EVH. Has anyone eve seen an EVH 355 with a flat back and screw off bearing cap?"
Edward Vom Hofe. Part 1 | Antique Tackle Observer
(Edward Vom Hofe was apparently located in NYC in 1896)
Jeff
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I just did a census search, and Edward Vom Hofe is listed in NYC in 1900 with his occupation listed simply "Fishing Tackle."
I would think that a Hartley of Hartley & Graham would have an engraved Smith considering how many engraved guns went through their business.
A gift to EVH from a good client with the intent that it be used as a sidearm on fishing trips? Makes a good story, too bad we'll probably never know.
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05-26-2010, 05:56 PM
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Just did a little more looking. A late 1800's NYC directory lists Edward Vom Hofe as "Fishing Reel Mfg." The next listing is Frederik Vom Hofe, "Engraver." Another directory lists Edward and Frederik both as "Fishing Tackle." Did Fred engrave Ed's gun?
Last edited by kleinkaliber; 05-26-2010 at 06:08 PM.
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05-26-2010, 10:01 PM
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more interesting possibilities! Thanks everyone for their inputs here. Notice that the article says Frederick was Edwards father. Perhaps he bought him the gun and engraved it for him? This is really great. I love this forum!
Last edited by twaits; 05-26-2010 at 10:13 PM.
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05-26-2010, 10:46 PM
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Very cool gun, good shooting, and an absolutely fascinating post! Thanks, twaits,
Jerry
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05-26-2010, 11:47 PM
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Thanks for sharing
I own the same model S&W, but mine carried serial number 40. It is also nickel plated. It was returned to the factory in 1920 and probably refinished since the finish is about 999%. The side plate has only three screws. The fourth screw must have been added later.
I was wonder what types of loads you used in your pistol? I have not fired mine, but would like to do so, and your posting encouraged me to pursue getting some ammunition.
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05-27-2010, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epidoc
I own the same model S&W, but mine carried serial number 40. It is also nickel plated. It was returned to the factory in 1920 and probably refinished since the finish is about 999%. The side plate has only three screws. The fourth screw must have been added later.
I was wonder what types of loads you used in your pistol? I have not fired mine, but would like to do so, and your posting encouraged me to pursue getting some ammunition.
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The forth screw was actually deleted. My 1896 has it but my 1901 doesn't. Remember, a low serial number in this model doesn't necessarily mean an early production gun. The numbers are all over the place on first model HEs. The only way to tell for sure when one was made is to have Roy Jinks letter the gun.
I had a box of Winchester 32 S&W longs kicking around. It's a silver box with a styrofoam insert. Probably from the '70s or '80s. I have only put a half a box through the two guns. These are technically built for blackpowder cartridges so I don't really want to shoot them too much.
It does seem to be a pretty robust design though compared to the top breaks of the era. The .32 S&W long even in smokeless is kind of a pipsqueak so it's probably nothing to even worry about even with the sharper pressure curve of smokeless. But I'm not an expert.
I'd love to see a picture of your gun
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05-27-2010, 10:15 AM
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Thanks for the information on the longer barrel length, I will definitely get it lettered. I do appreciate the information you have given. If you get a chance, I would be interested to hear what your book has to say on the subject of the 6" barrels.
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05-27-2010, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTPinTX
Thanks for the information on the longer barrel length, I will definitely get it lettered. I do appreciate the information you have given. If you get a chance, I would be interested to hear what your book has to say on the subject of the 6" barrels.
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The Standard Catalog of S&W (second edition) doesn't say anymore about the 6 inch barrel other than the fact it was an option.
But I don't see to many of them pictured anywhere.
I think there is another good thread on these somewhere. I'll see if I can find it and I'll post the link here.
Check out the new in box blued one in this thread:
.32 Hand Ejector Model of 1896
Now THATs the stuff that dreams are made of!
Last edited by twaits; 05-28-2010 at 01:12 PM.
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05-28-2010, 09:30 AM
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Wow, that's a really neat thread. I really liked the part about the prices, that was very interesting information as well.
I put my check and letter request in the mail this morning, I suppose here in a few months we will see what S&W has to say about my Father-in-laws. It does have the four screw side plate which I guess will make it earlier than your 1901? I started scrubbing the barrel last night and it wasn't actually as bad as I thought. It is still shootable. I don't know what accuracy will be like but it can definitely be fired. The trigger on this one is very nice, fairly light, and real smooth. I like this little pistol more all the time.
Why doesn't someone make a nice elegant little pistol like this anymore? You kind of have to handle one and play with it some to really appreciate it.
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05-28-2010, 01:15 PM
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I suspect no one does because it is so cost prohibitive to build guns like this now. Everything was hand fitted back in those days. To build a gun like that to day they would have to charge people $1500 or more. And unforutunately the masses now want Glocks and Springfield XDs and those awful looking plastic Ruger revolvers and all that other tupperware **** that has absolutely no personality.
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02-04-2012, 04:48 PM
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I have the same hand gun with the black hand grips...1896 Model 1, 5 screw but I don't know how to post pics here...its a Smith, 5 screw, 6 shot hand ejector....
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02-04-2012, 04:53 PM
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1896 Model 1, 5 screw
This is my most recent edition, from what I've learned about it, its an 1896 Model 1, 5 screw, 6 shot, hand ejector...I don't know what I'm going to do with it yet, but I've thought to use it to teach my two kids how to properly shot a pistol...though I surely hate to blow the new powder through it...anyway! I don't know if the pics of this came through, this is my first time here and I'm learning my way around...hope you like!
Kell
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02-04-2012, 04:57 PM
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Need help
I am new to this site. I am trying to find out the value of a 1905 hand ejector 4th change 32-20 revolver that my father left me. Where is the best place to do this on this site?
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02-07-2012, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteFalcon1
This is my most recent edition, from what I've learned about it, its an 1896 Model 1, 5 screw, 6 shot, hand ejector...I don't know what I'm going to do with it yet, but I've thought to use it to teach my two kids how to properly shot a pistol...though I surely hate to blow the new powder through it...anyway! I don't know if the pics of this came through, this is my first time here and I'm learning my way around...hope you like!
Kell
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These little revolvers are surprisingly accurate for what they are.
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02-07-2012, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteFalcon1
This is my most recent edition, from what I've learned about it, its an 1896 Model 1, 5 screw, 6 shot, hand ejector...I don't know what I'm going to do with it yet, but I've thought to use it to teach my two kids how to properly shot a pistol...though I surely hate to blow the new powder through it...anyway! I don't know if the pics of this came through, this is my first time here and I'm learning my way around...hope you like!
Kell
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Nice. Looks like you actually have a 4 screw there. Unless I just cant see the screw in the pics.
Last edited by twaits; 02-07-2012 at 01:05 PM.
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1911, ejector, engraved, engraver, hand ejector, jinks, model 1, ruger, smith and wesson, smith-wessonforum.com, springfield, winchester, wwi |
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