The thought never occurred to me until I began a search in earnest to find a USGI 1911A1. I was browsing a 1911-dedicated forum and was amazed at the number of really adamant posts to the effect that shooting a WWII vintage .45 would turn it in to a costly paperweight.

I regularly shoot a 1903A3, a couple of Victory Models, several Garands, and an M1 Carbine. I have a Smith 1917 that I don't think twice about shooting, and the same goes for many Smiths and Colts that date to well before 1945.

Is there any reason that a WWII 1911A1 in good condition can't stand up to regular shooting with ball ammo? Has anyone here had one fail?

I know there are modern replicas available, but I prefer the real deal.

Thoughts?

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

The Marines have been using USGI frames since they got them, and with no real ill effect. and I am betting they get a lot more use than most handguns! shoot away and have fun.

I would if it were mine. I see no reason why a regular diet of ball ammo would hurt a thing. They are a lot of fun to shoot. It would be a shame not to use it as it was intended. Collectors are a strange breed sometimes. I frequently hear them complaining about people 50-75 years ago who actually had the nerve to use and modify the guns that they now consider classics. Imagine actually buying, in 1935, a RM, modifying it to suit you, and shooting it enough to put significant wear on the finish. I would have enjoyed that a lot.

I think they're refering to the paperweight as a loss of value from shooting and wear and tear. Real USGI 1911's continue to go up in value; wear, patina and refinishing take away from that value.

If and when I get a genuine GI M1911A1 I would replace the springs to be on the safe side.

I would agree with 2000Z-71, I have shot my various military 1911's a bunch, but not much in the last 25 years. Now with the value of nice WW11's going thru the roof, I mostly only shoot some of my later commercials.

Whenever I hear about the "value" of 1911's I have to think of my late Father-In-Law and smile. He was a former member of an Army shooting team, which at that time was Precision Rifle and Service Pistol, and is the one that got me shooting 1911's. When I knew him he had two 1911's left. A commercial Colt 1911A1 he had bought new in the early 1960's and a Colt 1911 (not A1) that he had carried in WW2. He would loan me the 1911 anytime I wanted, supplied ammo from his stash and eventually taught me to shoot the pistol fairly well. However he was hesitant to even fire the commercial Colt.

He could not understand how some people could find the old, finish worn, 1911 more desirable than the nicely blued 1960's commercial gun. Even more curious to me now that I think about it was that he is the only Army Veterinarian I ever met. He served in the South Pacific during the closing months of the war and for a while during the Occupation with the military specialty of Veterinarian.

of course not.

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ASA/NSA 67-71
NRA Benefactor

Those old .45s were meant to be sturdy combat weapons. Although I have a number I keep as collector items and don't shoot, let me give this one as an example. It originally started out as a 1943-vintage Ithaca contract 1911A1 that was a British government released pistol with all the proof marks. It was pretty beat up when bought it for $37 in 1961 before I went into the Army. I had it accurized and blued in 1962 when I began actively shooting bullseye pistol competition (the Army gave me all the .45 ammo I wanted and I took full advantage of that). There was not a week go by that I didn't put hundreds of rounds through it. In civilian life, I continued to shoot it regularly. I don't know how many thousands of rounds I've poured through it over the years. I even bought a Colt .22 conversion unit for it, mounted that on the frame, and burned up thousands of rounds of .22 LR ammo on it. It's still percolating just fine, in either .45 or .22 trim. It's probably the most accurate .45 I own.

So go ahead and shoot those old war horses if you like - most still have plenty of miles left on them. Most have seen service anyway, so some more shooting probably won't decrease their value if that is the case.

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Well somebody has to keep the sheep healthy

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Forum consigliere

I broke off part of the "link-lug" on a WW2 Remington Rand many years ago. Had to replace the barrel with a correct G.I. replacement. I blame myself as I was shooting heavy hand-loads through the gun and it was really kicking. This was back when these were $200 surplus guns, not $1000-$1500 like they are now.

"Even more curious to me now that I think about it was that he is the only Army Veterinarian I ever met. He served in the South Pacific during the closing months of the war and for a while during the Occupation with the military specialty of Veterinarian."

Oddly enough, my nice Remington Rand belonged to a WWII Pacific Army vet. He took care of the mules they used to pack stuff inland. I got it from his son, a now-retired coworker, to who it was just a tool of no particular affection.

I shoot my 1943 Colt GM with ball ammo on a regular basis..I don't abuse it, I have replaced the springs, and it runs like a scalded ape....I shoot it, in spite of the impending doom I am sure to befall

Here are a few choice snippets from a forum dedicated to these type of things. These are from one thread, different posters, and seem to reflect the prevailing view (though there are quite a few "shoot em if you got em" types.)

"Good, now stop shooting it. "

"Be prepared for bashing bc you are shooting it. I agree with the bashers. No reason to shoot it. "

"If it's in 90% or better condition it's still a bad idea to shoot it. If these pistols and their replacement parts were as plentiful as Garands it'd be a different story. Then again, most Garands out there are mixmasters anyway. "

"I think its good to point it out that 1911's have numerous stress riser locations and somewhat inferior heat treating. Its not unusual for a crack to develop.

"As long as a person realizes that and is willing for a collector piece to go to a collector paperweight..thats cool."

And my favorite:

"When it cracks... I will laugh. "

I guess I'm just surprised at the vehemence of some of the replies to proud owners of GI guns who just want to shoot them.

One of things I really appreciate about the people here is the civility with which folks are generally treated. Plus, we can shoot our guns.

Thanks for the input, and please keep it coming. I'm getting a GI .45, and I sure plan on shooting it.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

My FIL, whom everyone called Doc, mentioned once that he did a fair amount of work on humans during the war. He was a Veterinarian before he shipped over seas, which made him a Vet Vet ;D. He retired as a bird Colonel in the Reserves. I guess being a DVM even the Army could not commission him as a MD. However they were willing to press him into service doing temporary patch work to get a casualty to the rear. Though come to think of it I expect many of us who live in rural areas, if given a choice would trust the local Veterinarian more than the local Doctor, if given a choice.

I have a WWl 1911 that was made in 1917. It has obviously seen the elephant. I bought it in 1987 for $100 and plan to continue to shoot it until 2017 when then I will retire it to safe queen status.

I shoot the heck out of mine, dont seem to hurt it one bit. I'll keep on shooting it, dont plan on selling it (or any other guns).

I do have an extra USGI Slide so I could put better sights on this silde.

"Even more curious to me now that I think about it was that he is the only Army Veterinarian I ever met. He served in the South Pacific during the closing months of the war and for a while during the Occupation with the military specialty of Veterinarian."

A friend of mine was an Army ROTC cadet and a Veterinary Science student. He was scheduled to be commissoned, upon graduation, and become an Army food inspector.

Even though Ed could max the Army's physical fitness test, and was a straight A student, the Army wouldn't give him a commission.

The reason? (Maybe reason isn't the correct term)

When Ed was a boy, he broke an ankle and couldn't move it from side to side!!! He wasn't trying to go into the combat arms, dang it! He was going to be a FOOD INSPECTOR. So, after sending him to college for 4 years, the Army just cut him loose.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I had a couple of Remington Rands in the 1960s--still have them. One I shot quite a bit and used for IPSC. The frame cracked at the dust cover around 1980. I managed to get a new Gold Cup frame replacement for it with the same serial number stamped in, and still have and use the gun. Most of the time it wears a 1970s conversion unit and so is a dead ringer for a Gold Cup.

But I agree that shooting them is hardly a sin. Nonetheless I use a new Springfield Armory Mil-Spec for .45 shooting these days. If something busts on that I won't feel particularly bad.

What is strange is the prices on those old warhorses. The two I have came to me for $25 and $45 respectively.

They are certainly not too fragile, but like my M1917 S&W, they're collectible enough not to be used too hard if they're in excellent or better condition. I love shooting my '17, but it's a 90% gun, so it doesn't get taken out of the safety deposit box often. It will be a legacy to my grandsons of their WWI pilot great-great grandfather.

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Rick, W0FG
CTR2 68-72

Get the 1911A1, and shoot it all you want; it will be just fine. Like any 1911, I'd avoid a steady diet of 'hot' handloads.

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NRA Life Member

In the early 60s I was on an Army pistol team. We shot National Match 45s; those accurized at Springfield Armory. They had mostly GI parts but NM barrels and bushings, and were carefully fitted. We shot them over a couple of competitive seaons (about 8 months out of each year), with nothign but hardball, probably several thousand rounds per year.. They were all WW II weapons and we had no major failures or cracked parts. About all we ever broke were extractors which only lasted about 1500-2000 rounds with the steel case ammo we were using. Magazines sometimes failed also. I have no hesitation about shooting my 5 GI 45s.

I have a '43 Remington Rand and I've shot it but not much. My shooter was a '79 Colt Series 70 but I just sold that to a friend. Truth is I don't shoot a lot lately so it's not a great loss.

What I worry about is a cracked slide thus ruining the old collector. The worst case scenario now is crack the slide, replace the slide and loose $1,000 in value. If I have to bang some .45ACP I'll use my S&W and Colt Model 1917s.

My brother paid $37.50 for my 1943 1911A1 in 19964 or 1965. I beat it around as a carry/truck gun for years. I finally retired it to the safe some years back, probably in the middle 80s. I still shoot it occasionally. I am going to give it to my brother's son this year at Christmas. I will fire a box or so of hardball just to make sure it functions and suggest that he see about having the still-original springs replaced. It sure is a sweet shooter. Last time I shot it, I used some Wolf steel-cased ammo. I don't think I will subject it to that again, but factory brass-cased should work fine.

I have a couple of Norinco 1911A1 clones that I do most of my .45 ACP shooting with now.

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Georgia On My Mind

Things can happen to any gun with use. Slides and frames crack and so on, so maybe what the purists mean is that once these guns are damaged, they're toast, so why not shoot something less valuable. If that's the case, then it is purely your preference. As to whether the gun can take the shooting, I think the answer is obvious and indisputable.

My Grandpa was one of those lucky guys who bought a nearly pristine Remington Rand for $35, or whatever, back when I was a youngster. We both shot it a lot. I made the handloads with LRN cast bullets and a pretty good charge of Unique, and he supplied the gun. When I last saw it ( ), it looked like it did the day he received it. Of course with the next round down range, something could have failed and the gun could have been nearly worthless, in today's market.

If I had Grandpa's RR right now, I would not hesitate to let my kids shoot it. It was not a particularly accurate gun, but for me, there was something special about holding it in your hand. You didn't even have to fire it.

Everyone has an opinion. Personally, with all the 1911 clones available at a reasonable price, why would anyone want to go out and regularly shoot a rare collectable firearm that is becoming more and more scarce. Put the old ones out to pasture, admire them but, don't shoot them on a regular basis.

Sir, a really pristine specimen might be too valuable to shoot, but I doubt you'd hurt the value of a shooter-grade gun by actually shooting it.

In many ways, the old GI .45s are more robust than current commercial guns. GI 1911s don't have any castings or MIM in them, for example, nor any complex little firing pin safeties. You might want to drop in a new recoil spring, but I wouldn't worry much otherwise.

One thing you may find with a GI gun is that it won't reliably feed anything other than 230 ball. Having it throated to feed hollowpoints, semi-wadcutters, etc. will hurt its value, so if you want to shoot those, you might be better off with a newer gun.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

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Wishin' don't make it so.

An all original Ithaca 1911A1.

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

wow whitecoyote that has to be the biggest 'new guy scratch' I have ever seen on a 1911, did you get it like that or is there a story?

The only issue I'm aware of with the WWII guns is the slides were not heated treated the same as the later commercial slides, and were a little soft. Sometimes the slide stop notch gets a little beat up because of this. On some guns you can see where the slide was heat treated around the notch to fix this.

That said, I have a 1943 vintage 1911A1, which was rebuilt into a US Army National Match by the Springfield Arsenal, probably in the late 50's or early 60's. I've shot many thousands rounds of hardball through it, it still has all the original parts, and is still accurate. Other than replacing the recoil spring, it is all original.

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Common sense isn't so common.

I hope not as I've been shooting them for years. I have a 1918 Colt and a 1943 Remington Rand.

I have a 1918 made 1911. It was sent to RIA in 1943 to be refurbished. I don't shot it a lot but do from time to time only using 230gr ball. It works fine and I don't worry about it. I have bought a High Standard 1911A1 to shoot more often. I also have my Great, great, great Uncle's 1917 S&W that was hit with a bullet in WW1. I shot that too.

My collection of WW1 and WW2 pistols includes over two dozen specimens. The last M1911A1 pistol purchased by the military was delivered in 1945 (other than a few target/competition pistol orders).

I have fired every one of these pistols, and I would not have any hesitation to do so anytime.

Because of skyrocketing values, and the difficulty of replacing original GI-issue weapons, they reside in a safe deposit box now. My home safe serves only for the more common arms.

Most recently, I took a few WW2 and Korea-vintage weapons out to the range with several friends who served in those wars. They thoroughly enjoyed a day with M1, M1 carbine, Johnson, 1903 and A3 rifles, and M1911A1 pistols. Then they all pitched in with the field stripping and cleaning chores.

I've also put on a couple of exhibits for school classes studying WW2 history. When a 14-year old is holding a M1 Garand rifle while looking at a map of Europe showing just how far many soldiers had to go, while carrying and using that rifle to stay alive, there is a real learning moment!

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Life of the party until 8:00PM

Thanks to a great forum member here as of today I now have my very own 1911A1, so I guess I'll answer my own question.

Here it is - my Ithaca-Rand. The slide is from Ithaca, the serial number on the frame puts it in the Remington Rand production range. Its got an HS marked barrel and Frank J. Atwood's stamp of approval. Maybe with all of that and the obvious re-park the collectors will forgive me for shooting it, which I already did - fifty rounds of Winchester ball without a hitch.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

With a hitch, eh? You mean without a hitch, I suppose?

Great looking .45. Hammer looks a little different but otherwise, looks just like my Grandpa's old gun.

I was out-typing my brain.

It did gnaw a little hole in the skin at the base of my thumb. Now I know what those beavertail safeties are for.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Sweet!!! Glad you found a nice one like that. Shoot it and enjoy it. Great gun and a great piece of our Nations History.

I have a 1944 Remington Rand 1911 that I shoot quite often, never had a problem. Have several friends that also have military 1911 that they also shoot. I have never heard of any of us having problems.
Shoot Them !!!! Joe

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