A couple of years ago I stumbled into a VERY nice four inch S&W 1950 Military .44 Special (SN: S 142xxx) in about 99% plus condition, with the original box. It has the original Magna grips numbered to the gun. There aren't even the outlines of cartridge heads on the recoil shield, so it hasn't been shot much. I put a couple of cylinders full of ammo through it, but everyone gave me hell for doing it, so I quit shooting it. I cleaned it, and it has sat in my safe ever since.

I'm the kind of guy who believes in owning collectable shooters. This gun belongs to a real collector who is looking for a gun this nice. I have two problems:
#1: I'm a pack rat, and I'm having one heck of a hard time talking myself into selling this gun.
#2: I have no idea how much to ask for this gun, if I can get myself to let go of it.

Below are some photos. (I'm not really good at taking photos, and these don't really do it justice.)

Should I really sell this, and if I decide to, how much should I ask for it?











It is hard to see in the last photo, but the serial number is written in grease pencil on the back of the box. The white tag covers the last three digits.

I say keep it and enjoy it. If you only shoot it once to twice a year that won't hurt it.

This one is a bit newer than yours but ANIB. It shipped in May of 1955 and S143825, close to yours, also shipped in May of 1955. I carry it on the books at $4,700. Don't know if it's worth that but that would be the minimum for me to even listen to a prospective buyer.

It's one of many that I don't shoot. When they get to around $1,000 I start thinking about shooting it and at around $2,000 they definitely go in the safe, never see the range again. This one is way north of that, obviously. Maybe some day I'll get to the point that I can blow thousands of dollars worth of condition down the range but that day ain't here yet.



Bob

That gun is worth $80.

Says so right on the box.

__________________
No life story has happy end.

$80 is way too cheap with the box and tools. I'd be willing to go at least $125 shipped.

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James Redfield
LM #497

I agree, but I am sure the owner has other ideas.

Back to the OP and topic, it sounds like you would have more fun converting the 1950 into money and using that to fund your primary interests.

I have similar feelings about weapons I don't think I should shoot. They are delightful, but for me, eventually become a burden. I rarely find anything special, but when I do find something nice that is worth preserving, I turn it over to someone who really wants it and use the funds for "shooting irons."

Having said all that, I do enjoy the fact that there are collectors out there who do hang on to these nice examples and keep them tidy, for display. It's a treat to see them, and of course the sharing of knowledge associated with the guns is wonderful, too. It's just that my "shooting" interests have always overpowered the others.

Good luck with finding a proper home for your gun, should you decide to do it.

I have one of those in excellent condition purchased in 1962 from Van Wagons (?) pawnshop in Provo Utah . Paid 75.00 ....but no box etc. Maybe someone knows where I, could buy one. Serial # is S1430XX.
Charlie

Wow my thoughts exactly.I didnt know there were that many others who had the same ideas about collecting/shooting as I did:~)

For the OP, if your not in a big hurry to sell it you might think of listing it with one of the large reputable auction houses. I think you would get fair market value without having to deal with the unsavory type you run into selling it yourself. If It was mine the first thing I would probably do is list it on Gunbroker with a high reserve and see what happens. You might get surprised, find the right collector and strike a deal. Good luck with whatever way you decide to go, thats a great gun for sure!
Matt

Keep it and shoot it. That what is was designed and manufactured for.
If you don't,the next owner will!

Ditto!!

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

keep it, shoot it, clean it, repeat every six months. i've had a 1956 production pre 24 for 23 years. i have shot over 2,000 rds thru it and with the exception of the recoil shield, it looks as it did when i got it. lee

Whelen,

I agree with you that if you are primarily a "shooter-collector" you will be best served by selling that highly desirable gun and invest the proceeds in an area more to your liking.

As to value, I can only tell you that in 2005 I bought a similar condition 1950 Military .44 at the Tulsa gun show that was priced at $3500. That was probably quite high for the gun at that time but they are so rarely encountered I swallowed hard and made the transaction which involved some trades (a Model 19 and a Model 12) along with some cash. As I mentioned the gun was pristine, however, it did not have the box and accessories that yours has. Just this last year I found and added the correct box and that set me back $400. So if the original seller's value was correct, my package is now approaching $4K without any allowance for inflation. I can tell you that I would not sell it for that because I don't think I could replace it for any less.

I'd like to say a few things about what I call the "Ain't gonna own no gun I cain't shoot" philosophy. I can understand that feeling and will admit to having been in that camp before. (In fact I still spend as much time as I can at the range and just began a break-in of a very tight new M1911 last weekend.)

I think it isn't uncommon for gun collectors to evolve a little away from a strict adherence to that philosophy over time. That evolution may have several contributing factors; age and deteriorating eyesight and steadiness, access to adequate range facilities, and possibility increasing ability to afford more valuable "collectible" guns.

It is an unarguable fact that as we move further and further away from the production life of a gun, it makes more and more sense to protect that gun...particularly those guns which have survived in near new condition. A half century ago it was easy and common to purchase percussion Colts and early cartridge Smiths and Winchesters and shoot them on a daily basis. Over time, the cost and fragility of the old timers has made that action foolhardy. Now there are plenty of reproductions, new productions, or lesser condition older guns to satisfy our smell of gun smoke.

Although it is unlikely that you will seriously damage your 1950 Military by occasional shooting, the likelyhood that you will "ding" it certainly exists (and who among us hasn't done that!). It is certainly possible that an unintended action can diminish the value of that piece by $1000 or more. Only you can determine if you want to take that chance.

Bob

I value my 99% 5" Pre-21 without goodies at $3500. All things considered, I'd value your package just shy of $4000.

He did have to mention that "deteriorating eyesight" thing...

So the difference in shooting it and not shooting it is a couple car payments of value? Let's say you never shoot a safe queen, keep it for 50 years and pass on. Some relative comes along and shoots it silly, enjoying it immensely or just puts it on gunbroker for a couple hundred bucks. Kinda like never getting grease on your Craftsman tools...

If you intend to put in the safe and use it as an investment in a strict sense and watch it's value rise and cash it in one day to benefit from that,,then preserve every last bit of it's current originality.
As said, even a tiny loss of finish,,edge wear, the smallest of scratches, will diminish value very quickly. The value difference between a high 90s% gun and mid 90s% gun can be tremendous.

The particular model is rare enough in itself, especially complete with it's box, etc. But the extra high condition is what puts it in a catagory that buyers want badly and will pay for.

Shooting it won't 'hurt' it, but the extra handling it gets and the possibility of additional wear and marks are just money off the value,,possibly alot of money.

Yes, someone else may take it out and shoot it. But they will have to pay dearly for the chance with a rare revolver in the present condition.

You could take it out and shoot it too,,then they most probably wouldn't have to pay you as much for it.

If you just want a shooter grade,,sell this one to a salivating collector and buy one and shoot it. Pocket the profit and buy a couple of other nice guns with it.

Thank you everyone, including those of you who sent me personal messages! I think I'm going to put this for sale in the Classified area for $3,600, or $3,500 and a sponsorship to the Smith & Wesson Collector's Association (I don't personally know anyone who belongs). If someone wants to make me an offer before I get it to the Classified area and save me the work, send me a personal message.

I really think this guns belongs to someone who enjoys owning it without shooting it, or doesn't mind putting wear on such a pristine gun. The thought of drastically reducing its value by using it gives me the vapors!

I retired about a year ago, and my wife and I just bought 40 acres back in Idaho. (For those of you interested, the first things being built are the 300 yard rifle range and a short, 25 yard handgun range. I grew up being able to shoot right out my front door for the first 18 years of my life, and I'm bound and determined to have that again for the last however many years of my life.) I'm having nightmares about dinging the gun in the move and drastically reducing its value. We have no kids to give the gun to, so I might as well pass it to someone who will appreciate it and get some money for ammo in the process.

Thank you all again!

Here I am debating which organ to sell so's I buy that thing, and you're all discussing the merits of shooting it. Shot or not, that is one of the rarest, coolest Smiths in the coolest barrel length on the planet, and to have the privilege of taking it out of MY safe to just stare at it would be worth a kidney, at least.

I'd prefer your liver, but will take a kidney and a left elbow in trade. I shattered my left elbow 30 years ago in a Forest Service trail bike accident, so I could use a new one. (Grin!)

Well, that didn’t take long. I see that you put the gun up for sale, and an hour and a half later had an “I’ll take it!” One of those “salivating collectors” mentioned above, I guess.

Congratulations to the buyer and the seller. Guess my organs are safe for the moment.

Yeah, I thought my internals were safe for the moment. How long does it take to grow a new kidney? My liver is already gone, and I'm having my head examined ASAP.

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Tom in AZ
Respect the Dingbat

Tom,

No need to have your head examined on that one. I think it was a great buy. They don't come around in that condition and completeness that often. Your investment is far safer than a drawer full of Greek bonds. No "Buyer's Remorse" necessary in this case.

Bob

PS

Bring it to Tucson and show it off. (I'm confident you could get your money back there if you wanted to.)
B.

With the exchange of messages I've had with The Gila Bender, I think I've found a good home for this handgun. I decided to sell it through the forum simply because I figured it would go to a person who would really appreciate it. I really didn't know what to ask for it, either, and I knew everyone on the Forum would give me an honest evaluation. This is the first time I've ever done a gun sale on the internet. I sell guns so seldom, it is almost an event worth noting on my calendar. I usually buy and never sell.

In the 13 years I've lived in Juneau, I've been absolutely AMAZED at the guns that come through this town. Most have had the living ba-jeepers used out of them, but every now and then something like this 1950 Military comes along. When I saw it, you could have knocked me over with a feather! I was in the gun shop when the guy walked in to sell it to the owner. The shop owner knows I love Smith & Wessons, and he knew he had me as soon as he looked at my face. He made a good profit, but I thought I did OK on it when I bought it. It is too nice for a shooter, however, so I'm happy to pass it on to someone who will appreciate it.

Whelen
If you want to join the SWCA I'll sponsor you...send me a pm

Great thread. Congrats to the buyer and to the seller.

I read a short story a long time ago about the two remaining specimens of a stamp, the rarest stamp in the world. The owner of one of the stamps bought the other stamp from its owner for an enormous price.

He then tore it to pieces, greatly increasing the value of the sole remaining stamp, far beyond simply doubling it.

So, when I shoot a pristine gun -- and sometimes I do and sometimes I don't -- I figure I am helping the rest of you pristine gun owners out! An act of simple (minded) charity, shall we say.

What a marvelous theory Arlo. Long live the "Ain't gonna own no gun I cain't shoot" crowd. May their tribe increase.

Bob

I'm also really glad to see this gun do so much for both parties...just the way it should be. Congrats to all.

Bob

I learned my lesson years ago. I bought a .45 colt new frontier 5 1/2" like new for $250s from a pawn shop. I enjoyed shooting it a couple times. I then researched it and found out audie murphy had bought it new! I thought I just won the lotto! I put it in the safe and never shot it again. Then I got married, a few years later it disappered when she ran off. I wish now I had shot the hell out of it!

That gun has appreciated _some_ over the years but not as much as you might think. Just a matter of inflation. My standard way of comparing prices it to use gold. Gold in 1955 was $35.15 an ounce. So it would have taken 2 and a quarter ounces of gold to buy that gun. Flash forward to now. Our sad little dollar..... it now takes $1200+ to buy an ounce of gold. So.... same 2.25 ounces of gold.... that's $3000+ in today's money.

Gregg

Yippee! Pkg arrived today and she's a beauty! So is the original box. I'll post more pics soon and will bring it to Tucson for show 'n' tell.

Many thanks to Whelenshooter for excellent communication and great packaging.

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Tom in AZ
Respect the Dingbat

I never was good at this new math. Isn't 2.25 x 1,200 about 2,700? BTW gold closed below $1,200 today. Mike

If someone doesn't start and shooting it, it may as well had never been made.
S&W employees put a lot of time into that gun to make it a usable, reliable weapon.
Enjoy it.

I thought people might like to know the history of this gun, as it was told to me (and I remember it). I don't know how accurate the story is, but I was told it by the son of the man who originally bought the gun new from Skinners Gun Shop here in Juneau in the fall of 1956. Skinners was the main gun shop in Juneau for many years. It closed in the late 1980s or around 1990 when Mr. Skinner got too old to run it, so I never saw the shop. I moved to Sitka, Alaska from Idaho in 1990, and never made my first trip to Juneau until 1991, when the shop was already gone.

Back in the 1950s there was a man here in Southeast Alaska who used to spend his summers working at a gold mine at a remote area in the interior of Alaska. During the summer of 1956 they were having regular visits from, and problems with, grizzlies. In the fall they quit working the mine for the season. When the man got back to his home in Southeast Alaska in the fall, he went to Skinners and bought this 1950 Military .44 Special so he would have a gun to carry the next season working at the mine. He shot the gun a few times, cleaned it, then put it back in the box to wait for the next work season. About two months after the man bought the .44 Special, the first .44 Magnum showed up at Skinners. The man put the .44 Special away, bought a new .44 Magnum, and used the .44 Magnum while working at the mine. His son inherited the .44 Special when the man died. He said he carried it in a holster a couple of times but never shot it, then he put it back into the box. A couple of years ago he decided to sell some guns. He walked into Rayco Sales here in Juneau carrying the gun in the box while I happened to be in the store BSing the owner. My eyes got kinda big when he pulled it out of the box. He sold it to the store owner while I stood there drooling, and 30 seconds later I bought it from the store owner. In addition to the original grips, he had a very nice set of aftermarket Magna style Stag grips for the gun. I bought the whole nine yards. I removed the stag grips and put the original wood grips back on the gun. The stag grips didn't fit me (they were fatter than a set of regular wood Magna grips and I have small hands), so I used the grips in a trade for an almost new Smith & Wesson Night Guard .44 Special.

I don't know if a factory letter would show the gun being sold to Skinners, or to a distributor. I don't know how the gun business worked back in the 1950s.

In any event, this is the history of this gun as I know it. It basically sat in the box for 50 years until I bought it, then sold it to The Gila Bender. A person doesn't come across deals like this but maybe once in their life. It appears I've used up my "once in a lifetime" deal.

The gun certainly deserves a letter. The letter will tell where the Factory shipped the gun. If it turns out that it was to Skinner's Gun Shop in Juneau it won't confirm the story but it will certainly lend a great deal of credibility to it. If it shipped somewhere else, it will neither confirm or deny the story since it could still have been sent to Skinner's by the original receiver.

Bob

Whelenshooter,

You mentioned a sponsorship to the SWCA. If you haven't gotten it, I'll be happy to do it. You also mentioned that you were moving back to Idaho. One reason that you should get the membership is that the SWCA annual meeting in 2012 is in Boise. If it is anything like the one held last week in Tucson, it will be an experience unlike any you have ever had!

Bob

Thank you for the offer, but I've received a couple of signed sponsorship applications since I first posted this thread. I sent off my application and a check the other day. The Gila Bender sent me an e-mail telling me about all the cool stuff there was to see at the Tucson meeting. I'm looking forward to the Boise meeting!

Not sure about your Gold comparison, while the dollar has turned to dog meat remember in 1955 you could not buy gold to hold like you can today and I think the government held gold prices below what the market would bare. Also most of the recent run up in gold prices have been in the last few years. Anyway your right people do sometimes forget to factor in inflation in their investments.

Take care

Troy

Shoot the heck out of it. One dealer is only asking around $3000 for similar guns. After a few years of shooting, you can probably get around a grand. Sell it and buy a shooter!

Thank you Whelenshooter for sharing the history of this revolver. I will certainly have it lettered soon.

The price inflation discussion, while interesting, doesn't have much value to me (ha!). Gold is a commodity, this revo is a collectible much like art, in this case American industrial art. I know we can reduce 'things' to a value in dollars and cents, but there is intrinsic and subjective value to be considered when it comes to collecting rare and desirable items. That's how I operate in this realm. If I like it and I have the coin then I'll work it out with the seller.

To the proponents of "shoot it!" and the "I saw one for less" folks, Thank You for your opinions and observations. Among my S&W shooters is a 3rd Model of 1926 transition and a Pre-27. I have another near perfect Model of 1950 44 Military 5" as well, so there is no immediate need to run out to the range and pound a bunch of rounds through this one. I bought it for the reasons stated above. I saw several examples of the 1950 44 Military at the S&WCA Gun Room in the low to mid $3k range. All had 'something' about them that determined value. There were 4th models with higher values too. And, I understand that values rise and fall with the economy, collector popularity, and the movies (e.g. Private Ryan and Band of Brothers WWII 1911s, Garands, Thompsons, and BARs; Cops and Robbers and Gangster Guns, etc.), this is where subjective value comes into play. IMO Whelenshooter and I did well by each other, I'm pleased with it, and I might even run a cylinder of cowboy loads just to make sure it didn't get all rusted-up sitting in the box for fifty-odd years.

And, it's been said elsewhere in this forum, the Tucson S&WCA show was spectacular. To see so many S&W's on display and for sale was overwhelming. Meeting and speaking with collectors, dealers, and S&WCA members was a real treat for me, I felt like a member of a community. It was like this forum is, only in person and surrounded by the history and actual items we discuss every day. If you have not already done so, then join the S&WCA and go to the annual meetings!

Cheers all!

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Tom in AZ
Respect the Dingbat

This has been a very enjoyable transaction. The Gila Bender and I both got what we wanted, and he has been a great person to do business with. This was a really neat gun that I felt honored to own for the couple of years I had it. I was very lucky to be in the right place at the right time when the guy walked into the shop with this handgun. There are a couple of Smith & Wesson collectors in town who I always need to beat to the punch when stuff like this comes up for sale. Sometimes I get there first; sometimes they get there first. I was the lucky guy this time.

And the letter reads:

"... your Smith & Wesson .44 Military Model of 1950 Pre-Model 21, Five Screw Variation, caliber .44 S&W Special...serial number S142499 was shipped on March 7, 1955, and delivered to Williams Gun Sight Co., Davidson, MI."

So, I believe this .44 went first to a distributor, then to a retailer in Alaska, then fifty-five years later to Arizona.

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Tom in AZ
Respect the Dingbat

For what it is worth, I once owned Pre-21 5" with serial number S148491, which shipped to the same destination on 3/18/55.

Tom,
I've got one with a SN within 5 digits of yours, but mine has been reblued so I get to shoot it :-).

This has been an excellent thread to read!

I'm from the "won't own a gun I can't shoot" camp, but I'm slowly starting to see the merits of the other side.

Also making it interesting to me is the fact I grew up and learned to shoot in SE Alaska, in a logging camp between Sitka and Juneau.

My thanks to both Whelenshooter and The Gila Bender for sharing the story.

There is a certain satisfaction of knowing that you can shoot it if you choose, rather or not you do. It is much easier to shoot or not when you have multiple guns of the same caliber. I not only collect Smith's , but also others. I may fire a few rounds out of a raritity when I am with like minded collectors who I know would have an enjoyable time, but from experience, you cannot believe how hard and expensive it can be to replace a "broken" part. As has been said above, this has been an interesting thread and I'm glad the two parties involved are pleased with the outcome. Joe.

With regard to values, I can add this... my understanding is that there were only two nickle Pre-21's made. The other has been refinished. The refinished gun sold recently I believe. If what I heard was true, the new owner of the refinished gun paid more than what I did for this original example 6 years ago....





Drew

Drew, I say first spray some black paint on the sights so's you can see'm in the bright sunshine, then get a cheap holster{does't even afta kinda fit} , use the speed loaders that scratch the finish on the matching wood grips, load up some home-brewed extra hot super -duper hand loads{ I recommend just filling the case to the brim with bullseye and then tamp a 300 grain hardcast bullet on top} and then tie that pretty revolver to an old tire and pull the trigger with a long lanyard. Oh , I forgot ,you had better drink heavy before going shooting to dull the ultimate pain as much as possible. Joe.

I have a slack weekend coming up before Turkey Season and I was wondering what I was gonna do!

Thanks for the guidance!

Drew

So, Sebago, did you contact Jim Rodgers and buy his nickel box?

Last December I was happily hiking a gun show when I was mugged at the end of the first aisle. It was GF, and he wanted to talk. As we were politely "BSing", along came a guy with a 4" blue gun. It was a 44 Military. He wanted $900, so I offered him $800, as tradition and morality in gun buying demanded. He said $850 and I was pealing $100 bills. It all shocked GF who had a little trouble believing I'd do it that quickly. Another rule of gun buying is to never hesitate when you see a deal.

Then I decided I needed a box for my gun. So I stopped at a friends table and asked him. He had one, but it was for a nickel 4" M1950. Not a problem for me, he said he'd bring it to the next show in a few weeks. I brought my agreed upon trade, as did he. Then a month later he gave me a phone call, telling me to bring the nickel box back, he had blue box for me. So we traded boxes. And Sebago Son was sent the contact information so he could try to pry it loose.

So now I've got a "shooter" in a correct box. And I'm a happy camper, more or less.

From reading Bettis's posts over the years, I could tell he had some common sense. His early post to this thread confirms it.

But I have a slightly different opinion on shooting collectors guns. What I've seen over the years is shooting a few rounds, or even a few cylinders full doesn't hurt the gun or the condition. Of course you use modest loads. Then you clean it, just like you were taught, until it looks like it did before you fired it. It takes a pretty good expert to tell if its been fired or not. If you want to be real sneaky (something I excel at) you look at your cylinder to see where the factory fired every other chamber. Then you load them, not the virginal ones. Then even a quick and dirty cleaning won't disclose a second round of firing.

Finding these guns is so rare you probably can't be too choosy. When you see one, you jump. If you hesitate, all is lost. Just ask GF.

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Dick Burg