S&W EXPERTS PLEASE HELP – this has been difficult to resolve. I’m new to this forum; this is my first post; I’m not new to guns in general, but I do not own any of the handguns described below. I’m coming to the ‘experts’ (those with S&W experience) for help with my wife’s selection of a CCW handgun for her (note I said my wife’s selection, not my selection …although she might listen to you).

THE BACKGROUND ON HER
My wife is a realtor; had some close calls being alone with unsavory characters; has been a victim; petite with a small frame, small bones, and SMALL HANDS; right handed; right wrist somewhat damaged from auto accident long ago, but it is functional ~80%; not disciplined enough to learn to shoot and to practice with her left (weak) hand; just got her CCW; not an experienced shooter (but I can help with that once she gets her own gun).

J-FRAME .38 SPECIAL
About a year ago she once shot someone else’s J-frame S&W Model 642 (15 oz. Airweight .38 Special), 1.875” barrel, unaltered (HEAVY) trigger, but she did not like the recoil and the trigger pull was very difficult for her. To be fair, she only shot about 6 rounds and did not (still does not) have experience with the recoil and sound of guns. I’m guessing, but it seemed to me at that time the trigger pull was 13-15 pounds – very heavy. SUBJECT TO YOUR COMMENTS, I am uncertain if she could get used to the recoil and trigger if she owned this model and practiced with it. These Airweight guns are safe and lightweight for daily CCW carry, but the felt recoil might be harsh. If I (she) got this gun, I know it would need a trigger job (springs/polishing) to lighten the pull, but I have no idea how much lighter the pull would be. I called a gunsmith and he said my guess about the trigger 13-15 lb. pull was about right and that his trigger job would get the pull down to 7-8 lbs. IS THIS ABOUT RIGHT TO YOU?

MAYBE YOU FOLKS HAVE SOME INSIGHT ABOUT THE EXPECTED BENEFITS OF A TRIGGER JOB (INCLUDING CHANGING SPRINGS) ON THIS J-FRAME AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, A COMPARISON OF FELT RECOIL WITH THE GUNS DESCRIBED BELOW.

J-FRAME .357
She recently hired a shooting instructor who let her use his J-frame S&W Model 640 (23 oz. stainless steel 357 Magnum) shooting 38 Special loads. As many of you know, it is often much easier on everybody if someone other than a spouse or family member is teaching. If you are married, you know what I mean. The recoil did not bother her as much as the heavy trigger. She only shot 9 rounds before giving up and switching to a 22 caliber revolver – the trigger pull was too heavy on the Model 640. The instructor did not have a J-Frame .38 Special Airweight (such as a Model 642) or a pistol for her to try/compare.

Note that the instructor is vigorously opposed to any self-defense caliber less than 38 Special in a revolver and 9mm in a pistol. In other words, SUBJECT TO YOUR COMMENTS, 380 ACP is probably not being considered.

DO YOU EXPERIENCED FOLKS THINK THAT THE HEAVIER WEIGHT (23 oz. 640 vs. 15 oz. 642) HAD A SIGNIFICANT RECOIL BENEFIT? OR PERHAPS WAS SHE PROBABLY JUST MORE RELAXED IN THE PROFESSIONAL ENVIRONMENT WITH AN INSTRUCTOR? She could not answer this question because she could not simultaneously compare the recoil between the two guns. Maybe you ‘experts’ have experience with this question.

S&W M&P9c
At a local gun store, my wife and I examined a M&P9c, S&W’s most compact 9mm pistol. The gun fit her hand and she was able to rack the slide. Of course, the trigger pull is much easier than any revolver. The weight of the gun (per the S&W website) is 21.7 oz. (versus the 15 oz. and 23 oz. of the guns above). I know the concerns about safety (e.g., the straight index finger off the trigger, the need for a holster to cover the trigger, training/practice, etc.) and that a revolver is generally safer than a pistol, particularly if the person does not practice. I also know the issues about ‘limp wristing’ a pistol –also a training issue.

MY QUESTION FOR YOU IS ABOUT FELT RECOIL – WHETHER THIS 9mm PISTOL WILL HAVE A FELT RECOIL LESS THAN THE 23 OZ. MODEL 640 (shooting 38 Special loads, not .357). My assumption is that the recoil on this 9mm pistol would be greater than the Model 642 and less than the Model 640, but I do not have actual experience with these guns.

Where I live there are no ranges that rent guns, therefore, I'm looking to you for help.

Thanks for your patience, but I thought it would be helpful to be thorough in providing all the background. Thanks in advance for your responses.

Here is what I would recommend.

For her first handgun I would get her a 2" 5 shot S&W in 38 Special.

Since she will most likely carry it in her purse, and she had a wrist injury, I would get her a steel framed Bodyguard, or a Centennial.

The steel framed guns have a lot less recoil.

My wife carries a Centennial Airweight as her everyday carry, but she carries a 44 Mag in the field. She has killed a bunch of snakes with it here on our place with shotshells, so she gets a bunch of practice...

But for your wife I would get the steel framed gun. I would have her practice with factory wadcutters, and if it is the most powerful ammo she wants to shoot i would have her carry them for protuction as well.

If you are "flush" with money you can get her a 2" S&W Mod 34, 22LR for practice.

It will pay for itself in a thousand rounds or so. And you will have a backup gun for her as well.

I got the 642ct for my wife. The gun had a problem with the cylinder not indexing and had to go back to S & W for repair. I asked if they can also lighten the trigger pull on it . They said no there is nothing they can do with it. Got the gun back and they replaced the trigger group and fixed the indexing problem. Trigger was much better, smoother, but still heavy. The gun is still not pleasant to shoot and with +p even worse recoil. My wife know it is a SNTF gun and not a target gun so she will put up with the recoil. The Crimson Trace is a +.

As for the 9mm M & P the recoil is a more easily manageable. If she can handle the slide and practice with the gun she will do ok with it. This also has the Crimson Trace option. I would let her try both to see what she likes. The key here is practice, practice, practice.

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In case of emergency call 1911

I would recommend a Model 60 LS (Lady Smith). All steel, 2", with a slightly lighter trigger pull. Run .38 Special with a 158 gr. bullet for a little softer recoil...

The S&W M60 Stainless is a great CCW revolver. Even comes with rosewood grips, called the "Lady Smith". Will shoot 357's, but 38+P would probably be better load for your wife. A CS9 in stainless would be a good little pistol, as long as she can operate the slide. Light weight,aluminum frame, short barrel, easily concealed. The revolver is a little easier to operate under stress, however. I prefer stainless steel for any CCW as rust is less of a problem.I have an M60, but did have to send it back as the trigger kept sticking. S&W will take care of it under warranny. Hope this helps. But key to any CCW is PRACTICE and becoming familar with the weapon. Good luck --------

Having carried no concealed weapons on a regular basis, but having shot most of the pistols and revolvers extensively, and having been a firearms instructor, I would agree that a M-60 with perhaps a 3" barrel and a "back-up" understudy in .22 lr would be a logical choice for you/her.

Then get her out shooting the .22 a lot until she is very comfortable with a revolver, ANY revolver. She could even carry the .22 as her CCW for a while... a .22 in the hand that she will be able to shoot is far superior to a more powerful .38 that she is afraid of or hesitant to shoot, and that's a fact.

Just having a weapon in her bag is not a help, she will have a false sense of security that will probably result in her losing it if she is not willing and ready to use whatever she pulls out, WITHOUT HESITATION. To summarize, a lot of training and familiarization is as important or more so than simply choice of weapon. Just my $.02, YMMV!

the Green Frog

Actually, one of the nice things about semi-automatics is that the motion of the slide in response to firing eats some of the recoil. A heavy steel J-frame doesn't kick as much as an Airweight, but I still find semi-autos more comfortable to shoot.

If your wife is comfortable working the slide on the M&P9c and the gun fits her hand well, you might have a winner, but the next consideration is how she would carry it. Rummaging in a purse to find your gun is not the most quick or efficient carry method, so she might want to find a gun that she can carry on her body with a reasonable amount of comfort.

If the M&P9c would be too bulky for carry on the body, another option is looking at a slimmer 9mm pistol. If you wanted to stick with Smith & Wesson or related companies, I'd strongly suggest looking at either a single-stack 3rd Generation S&W pistol or a Walther PPS.

A single-stack 3rd-Gen 9mm S&W, such as the Model 3913 LadySmith, would be slimmer and overall smaller than an M&P9c but still possess enough weight to absorb recoil. For an even slimmer firearm, the Walther PPS gives roughly the same capacity in a lighter pack, and unlike the .380 PPK, the PPS is chambered in 9mm or .40 S&W. I've looked at the PPS in the store... they're slightly over 1" thick, nicely shaped, and have great sights on them, but the magazines are mighty expensive. Of these two guns, the 3913 would likely be more ergonomic, but it's hard to beat the profile of the PPS for concealment.

However, don't take it that I'm poo-pooing a J-frame. They're excellent guns as well. Heck, I've got one on my hip now. But for day-to-day carry, my M&P9c soaks up recoil much better and I squeeze far better groups out of it than I do with a J-frame. Perhaps your wife would find the same.

S&W "J" Frame Hammerless .32cal. with action job
S&W "J" Frame 640 .38spl with action job- use factory wadcutters ammo

My Wife and Daughter use S&W Model 642s with Barami Grips and using W-W standard velocity silvertips.

After going through several small semi autos, my wife settled on a model 60LS and really likes it. We load it with the short barrel .38 Gold Dots. We also put rubber grips on it that cover the back strap to assist with recoil. She really likes it now. Good size, weight for recoil reduction etc. I would also agree with the .22 suggestions above until she is more comfortable with carrying and shooting her firearm. Having a .22 cal with her is better than leaving something else at home because she is not comfortable with it or not able to operate it.

T

IMO the perfect solution would be a Model 631 Ladysmith in .32 magnum. All steel J frame, excellent trigger, plus she can practice with .32 long wadcutters and then move up to .32 mags for carry. If the .32 mags are still too much recoil, Magtech makes a sweet little 98 gr SJHP in .32 long. Of course, this is easier said than done because the 631's are fairly scarce and sometimes a little pricey when you do find one, but they are out there.

A J Frame is NOT a good gun for a new shooter, especially one with wrist problems. The mainspring should be kept as strong as possible. Depending on the individual revolver you might be able to reduce the pull weight somewhat, but 7-8 lbs. seems too light for complete reliability with all ammo.

I would never recommend off body carry to anybody. I feel that the gun must be kept on your person at all times. Purse carry has far too many risks.

As much as I now like J Frames, they are not for everybody and this is one of those few instances where she'd be better served with an auto. I'll never pay a dime for any S&W auto so my choice would be some kind of small Glock.

Dave Sinko

Situations that might require the use of deadly force will usually happen very quickly and with adrenalin pumping full tango. You have to consider that firing a semi-auto pistol requires that the slide be free of any obstructions to properly cycle for follow-up shots. This is where a revolver shines over the pistol. The revolver can be fired "concealed" from let's say a jacket pocket or carry-purse. The Centennial models not only keep lint and debris from building up but can be presented from a concealed position. An appropriately designed handbag, purse or briefcase (sturdy carrying strap positioned correctly across the turso) comes in handy when the defender feels threatened. The defender can be at the ready, firing hand inside jacket pocket, purse, etc. on the gun at the ready. Other issues you need to consider are the legal and liability aspects of firearms self-defense (use of deadly force). That in itself is a whole different topic. Browse the conceal-carry forum for more research on the subject. Finally, practice..practice..practice. Practice shooting what you plan to carry or use in self-defense if the need arises. Practice IMHO also means using the same ammo you load your conceal firearm with.

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"Sursum Ab Ordine"

A j-frame trigger can be lighnened a bit. Also, 148gr wadcutters have been recommended by some folks here as a very light-recoiling alternative to heavier loads, plus they are very accurate, even out of the J-frames.

I'll admit to a trigger job on my 638, which also carries two 148WC rounds for the first two shots.

I'm no expert, but... I bought my wife a J-Frame with a 3" barrel. It has less recoil than a snubbie but she still hated the trigger pull. Our range does offer quite a few rentals. We went through CCW class and took weekly trips to the range. And after checking out a half dozen options including Glock, Sig Sauer and Kimber, she bought the M&P9C w/ Crimson Trace Grips. While I agree with most males on the concept of carrying on-body rather than off, most females will opt for the purse. Check out CoronadoLeather.com Their purses seem to be outrageously expensive enough to be of interest.

One drawback to the current J-frames is that the main spring is of the coil variety, and yes, they are strong...

My lady friend has a 3" model 36; she is 4'10" and 100 lbs. The selection was made years ago by her Dad, a retired Marine Corps. Sargent Major. She found the double action trigger pull to be too strong, so her father drilled her on single action rapid fire. She is very competent with her J-frame...

I recently gave her one of those concealed carry "day planners" from Dillon, which would be perfectly in character for the OP's real estate agent wife.

Personally, I would recommend a Model 60 with a 3" barrel, for its additional sight radius, and full length extractor. My model 60-15 is as accurate as my 686+ and I keep it loaded with 135 Gr. Speer 38 Spl. Gold Dots for short barrels. The additional weight of the stainless .357 J-frame helps absorb recoil.

Lastly, one thing to remember about Glocks is that save the toggle piece of the trigger, there is no safely... Our local Sheriff's department moved away from Glocks for that reason, as a couple of Deputies shot themselves accidentally...

I wish the OP and his wife success in finding a pistol, or revolver which meets her needs. If a gun in not pleasant to shoot, she will not practice; thus, making the right choice is imperative.

A quality trigger job, that remains 100% reliable can be done on a J Frame. The Model 60/640, all steel, with appropriate grips. The weight and the "grips" are the key to less felt recoil. The grips must fit her hand, and the fuller the better as it spreads out the recoil. With a factory main spring, and a 13 or 14 lb. rebound spring and correctly done stoning inside the trigger will feel much lighter, and you still have the original mainspring for reliability. With the lighter weight bullets, 130 gr. short barrel loads, or 110 gr. will help more with the recoil. When she practices, make sure she has excellent ear protection, as an inexperienced shooter will perceive higher recoil with loud noises.

Good luck in your selection. The 32 magnum may also be an alternative.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

A 60LS is just about the perfect gun. The trigger pull is lighter than a traditional J frame and the curve of the butt brings the trigger in closer for small hands. It's light and small enough to carry without feeling unduly burdened but large enough to absorb recoil. I brought one to a Women on Target class and had put Pachmayr Compacs on it. Almost all women agreed it was their favorite.

The plus side of a revolver is that she would not have to worry about limp-wrist jams that can easily happen with a semi-auto.

While a semi-auto is somewhat lighter and slimmer to carry, I have often carried the 60LS 2" in an appendix-side IWB (Bianchi Pro 100) under a blazer or sweater, and have also carried it easily in a cross-draw (DeSantis Sky Cop) while driving long distances.

The new CT laser grips are also more cushioned than they used to be and a very good asset for a concealed revolver.

PS - that's the gun in my avatar

I use a Model 60 Lady Smith. The trigger is about as light and smooth as any revolver I've seen. With Pachmayr Compact grips, I can easily shoot 357 loads, but I carry it with the original wood grips - conceals nicer, but I'm a guy so I'm carrying it in my pants pocket or an IWB holster.

If she wants the option of shooting from inside a purse or pocket, then the hammerless J-frames in steel ought to do it. If she doesn't like 38+P, try regular 38 specials...and if you go with a 3" Model 60, the recoil shouldn't be much more than some 22s.

I figure a self defense shooting is likely to be at ranges <10', so I actually don't think a lot of practice shooting is required. A comfortable draw or access to shooting inside the pocket practiced (empty!) is probably more important. As much as I like my M60LS, I'd recommend hammerless - a 640.

BTW - I do practice shooting...for fun. But a person can shoot a J-frame at 5 feet without using sights or needing hours of practice.

Also - if she carries in a purse or where weight isn't a big issue, consider a Model 64 - 38 sp, 4 inch barrel, weighs 36 oz, comfortable for small hands with the small service grips, and it ought to be about as smooth a trigger and as light in recoil as one gets. I've started carrying a 3" 686 SOMETIMES, but I'm not that thrilled with carrying a fanny pack, and the weight is a lot to carry on a belt all day. But my daughter (5'2"/110 lbs) carries one daily in her purse...sometimes it is better to carry a bit more and feel better about shooting.

I'll make this short: Anyone who is not going to spend significant time practicing all the necessary drills to resolve various problems that can occur with an auto should use a revolver; Any of the varients will work, but steel frames have some real advantages; Managing recoil is a matter of training, technique and practice; A revolver can handle light loades and still function reliably, but an auto may not because it has to have a certain amount of recoil to make the swlide function; Off body carry is not optimal, but a purse designed for carry or a day planner properly designed gives good service. But if you're going that route, moving up to a J-frame might be an option that would reduce recoil, allow heavier loads, better trigger pull and sight radius. A revolver has one advantage an auto does not: In a pinch you can five it through a coat pocket, a pants pocket (although that could be most interesting in several ways) or from the concealment pocket of a purse. You might get the first shot off with am auto, but then it'll jam because it'll get tangled up in the clothes when the slide cycles. Just my humble opinion and the advice is probably worth about what you're paying for it.

Why not just a can of Mace..?

I would recommend a revolver over a semiauto for a new shooter. The revolver is either loaded or not, with no worry about is there a round in the chamber. I recently bought a new S&W Bodyguard 38 with the polymer subframe. This revolver has a great trigger and handles recoil better than my Model 60. How they reduced the felt recoil in such a light revolver amazes me. I'm sure it has something to do with the grip design and the polymer grip frame. My wife weighs 95 pounds and is very recoil sensitive, however she is very comfortable with this latest Smith. Try one and you'll be impressed.

One other off the wall thought, is try to find a S&W model 650, or 651, in 22 Mag. The 22 Mag. is a surprisingly good round to change some thugs mind about messing with your wife. It will stop a bobcat in its tracks, better than a 38 Special. The 650 is a 3 inch bbl, and the 651 came in both a 2 inch, and a four inch version. Unfortunately, they are both out of production, so you would have to shop around on Gunbroker, or one of the other gun auctions to find one.

EarlFH

+1

the .32 mag packs about the same wallop as a .38 spcl but has much less felt recoil.

It's a good light gun, good trigger pull, and has the advantage of different loads if you want them.

It also comes in the 332, 432 lightweight models.

Stay with a revolver. She doesn't need to worry about racking slides or safeties if she needs to use it.

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ASA/NSA 67-71
NRA Benefactor

I am surprised no one has mentioned the 9mm Kahr K9. It weighs about the same as a steel J frame revolver, uses either 7 or 8 round magazines, is very compact, has an extremely low bore axis which reduces perceived recoil, is "dead" reliable (ours has never experienced a failure to feed) and fits small hands well. It has a very smooth double action only trigger and Crimson Trace laser grips are available.

I will say that I am considering a J-frame Model 60, but my wife really really enjoys her K9. She has small hands and shoots the Kahr more accurately than the HK P7, Sig 228, Colt Gold Cup or Kimber CDP she previously shot. (By way, she is now lusting after my 686SSR!!!)

my wife has two she favors
1. Model 60-15 3" w/ 38 Golden Saber
2. Sig P239 DAK SAS 9mm (no safeties on either - your brain is the safety) - the sig has little to no recoil and light trigger pull - do not get DA/SA - the DAK is not like most DAO - it is made for carry being assembled by the custom shop

she trusts her life to either one as many do

in a panic and shoot situation many do not notice heavy trigger pull, recoil and noise

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Fair winds and following sea

I have a question and hope it doesn't come off as smart-alecky. I keep reading about a new shooter shouldn't have this-or-that. At what point does one graduate from "new shooter" status? Should a newbie expect to buy then discard their first firearm as a "trainer"?
My wife never liked her revolver and getting her to practice with it was a chore. Her auto fits, works, and gets good results - every time. Two trips a month to the range to stay sharp and no worries. (I on the other hand am a range rat and in there all the time).
We both realize this is no game. Our lives may depend on it. I firmly believe in the saying "You don't rise to the occasion - you fall to your highest level of training."
IMO whether it's a revolver, a semi-auto or a cannon, if you don't practice with it, you're better off without it.

You beat me to mentioning the Kahrs. My wife has issues with racking the slide on her K9 but can rack her TP9 easily. I'd also second whoever mentioned the Walther PPS in 9mm. My wife has issues with recoil when shooting standard pressure .38s in her all-stainless 649, but the recoil of the lighter Kahr TP9 and PPS don't bother her nearly as much.

Re calibers and the instructor's opinion on those, he's not getting paid to like her choice in calibers. A locked breech .32 like a Kel Tec P32 would give her a light trigger pull, easy slide racking, light recoil, and a handy small package to carry.

I bought my daughter a S&W #331TI .32 H&R magnum. Light gun, light recoil, heavy price.

Attached Images

S_W331ti.JPG (40.8 KB, 181 views)

Get her an Airweight Centennial model, maybe 442 with .38 Special 158 grain. She will carry it in her purse. You can have her put on recoil glove to practice a bit with it. She doesn't need a lot of practice to point and pull the trigger. If she needs it and uses it against a perp, she won't feel any recoil. And a perp with a bullet in him will be much less interested in robbery or rape.
sonny

Any thoughts about the J frame in 22
magnum? I think it's the 351...

Many potential "shootings" are thwarted at the presentation of the pistol by a person who is prepared and trained to use it. With that being said a civilian has a far different role from that of the off duty cop. Simply save your own rear end (and that of your family) then get the heck ourtof there.

So my 2 cents for what it's worth would be a 22 mag and to practice, practice, practice.

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S&W M&P and 3rd Gen Armorer

Frankly, it's a shame that the instructor was so anti-380 and probably filled your wife's head with a bunch of bologna horror stories about the inadequacy of the 380 ACP cartridge. Judging by what you have described, it sounds to me as if a pocket-sized 380 could be the perfect solution for your wife.

I have posted about this recently on a few other threads, but I'll repeat it here: my wife and I recently purchased a Kahr P380 for her, and it is a FANTASTIC weapon. The trigger is smooth and light, but not too light. Recoil is modest and manageable, even with defense-quality ammunition, and the pistol is comfortable to hold and "points" naturally. The pistol is slim, light (under 12 ounces), compact, and can be carried on one's person relatively easily, even under the typically form-fitting clothes of a woman. My wife took it to the range to test it out, and, brand new, the pistol had one stovepipe on the second round, and then 198 problem-free shots. By the way, Kahr warns that its pistols need a 200-round "break in" period. As she shot away in the lane next to me, I kept waiting for the string of failures, but they never came. If you can't tell from my description, I was exceedingly impressed.

Of course, everyone knows that, when it's come to "power", the 380 ACP cartridge is not a 45 ACP, but neither is the .38 Special a .44 Magnum. It's all a matter of compromise. If your wife finds the weapon manageable, possibly even mildly enjoyable, to shoot, then she will be willing to practice with it. If she practices, she is more likely to hit what she's aiming at, should she be in a situation in which hitting the target is of utmost importance. If the weapon is small and light enough, she will have it on her if she needs it. The bottomline is that it's unwise to purchase a weapon for her with which she is not comfortable, or can't or won't get comfortable due to trigger weight or recoil or whatever reason. I'd rather my wife have a sharp stick than her bare hands, and I'd rather she have a 380 ACP than a sharp stick, but, whatever she has, I want her to feel comfortable, competent, and proficient with it, and I want her to have it on her (not in a purse or locked up at home) should she need it. I want her to be able to use the weapon with confidence.

In addition, the horror stories about the 380 ACP catridge that I mentioned above are a load of hooey. Any "dud" catridge of any caliber will show unrepresentative perfomance. But, 99.999% of cartridges produced by reputable manufacturers are not duds, and any reasonably logical person will acknowledge that a 90-grain projectile travelling at 900 feet per second is going to punch a hole in just about anything not made of rock or a hard metal. The physics of it are undeniable. If one has doubts or questions about adequate penetration, good-quality FMJ or TMJ ammunition provides the answer.

Yes, yes, I know that an attacker may not be "stopped" quite as quickly with a 380-sized hole than a 45-sized hole, or whatever ammunition one wants to hold up for comparison. But, in just about any threatening situation that my paranoid imagination can produce, the appearance of a pistol in the hand of the potential victim is a game changer (as one poster alluded to above), and three or four shots are a game ender, whether the game ends with an attacker in retreat or an attacker who needs immediate medical attention.

In sum, as suggested by others, I would recommend reducing concern about caliber and increasing concern about finding a weapon with which she will become proficient and comfortable. If you have two or three choices with which she will become proficient and comfortable, choose the largest caliber of the bunch. Finally, do not rule out the 380 ACP. Regardless of the instructor's biases, the pocket-sized 380 ACP is a nice compromise between power, portability, and concealability. Prior to our recent purchase, even my wife scoffed a bit about the "weak" 380 ACP, but she's since changed her tune.

I have to agree with Satori. I've got the M60 .357 w/5" barrel. Although a bit longer, the thing I found with this revolver is the shape of the grip seems to have the recoil smoothly roll up and out away from the back of the hand and wrist.

I was a bit concerned when I saw the grips, being so small. I was going to replace them till I actually fired a couple of boxes of 158 gr. .357 JHPs through her; excellent!

And w/the shorter barrels running .38s through one of these M60s (to include those smaller grips for her hands) I would think that she would have no problem.

I am definitely not an expert. But I know the M60 is one she should at least test fire and see what she thinks.

Pray this helps.

I am the OP. WOW ... a lot of responses. I’m very grateful for your effort. As you probably noticed, the advice varied greatly. You understand why this is so difficult. Most people recommended the J-frame revolver over the pistol for various reasons with which I agree (simplicity, safety, ability to shoot through a jacket pocket or a purse if necessary, concealability, no ‘limp wrist’ concern). Several countered this with the fact that a compact pistol (e.g., Kahr or M&P9c) would be more comfortable to shoot, and if so, my wife would be more inclined to practice, thus overcoming some of the other concerns mentioned – also a view I agree with.

Regarding recoil, your comments seemed to imply lowest-to-highest recoil as follows (assuming the same sized J-frame alternatives -- PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG HERE …THIS IS IMPORTANT TO ME): This answered a principle question I had. It is very relevant for my wife’s situation.
1. 9mm compact pistol – least recoil because the recoil is absorbed by the spring and the slide
2. J-frame stainless steel .357 (shooting 38 Special) – because it is heavy
3. J-frame stainless steel 38 Special – because heavier than Airweight
4. J-frame Airweight – most recoil because lightest

Several of you highly recommended models that happened to have an exposed hammer. I am aware of one female realtor who was attacked and she had such a gun in her purse. The attacker beat her to a pulp so that he could rape her. Simultaneously, the female was attempting, but failing, to withdraw the gun from her purse. The hammer was snagged inside the purse. She eventually got the gun out and the attacker saw it and ran before she got a shot off. Apparently she was too hurt and dazed to fire. Conclusion: NO HAMMER.

Several of you suggested also having a lower caliber to be sure she can handle it or as a second gun for practice purposes because ammo is cheaper and there is less noise and recoil. I agree that some shooting skills can be developed/maintained and, especially for a new female shooter, she might be inclined to practice more often. I may follow this advice but use it only for her initial training. I would still mover her up to a bigger caliber. In other words, I’d be buying 2 guns for her.

Please note she will not be shooting for the fun of it (plinking or target practice). Target practice and defensive shooting practice are not the same. I am of the school of thought that, for self-defense purposes, you should practice as you would actually fight. In other words, develop actions/reactions that are almost automatic … develop muscle memory. I and her trainer will practice actual combat movement techniques under various scenarios and conditions. We will not be plinking. If/when my wife is attacked, she will act/react without panic or confusion …I hope.

THANKS AGAIN.

There's a lot of good advice in this thread, but I'll add my 2 cents.

I've seen plenty of well trained, experienced shooters have issues and malfunctions with the small pocket pistols. Because they are small and "cute", many assume they are easy to shoot well, when in fact they are among the most difficult guns to shoot.

Get a 2" .38, in either steel or alloy, (not the titanium cylinder model). Buy some factory 148 grain match wadcutters. They are easy to shoot, yet will outperform many rounds sold for purpose of self defense.

See -- my conclusion is NO PURSE CARRY.

It doesn't matter what I carry, from my .380 KelTec to my .45 M&P compact - it is ON my body and instantly accessible.

Get her a .25 ACP and tell her to shoot for the knees.

On a more serious note, a .38 Special loaded with a 110 grain bullet at ~ 900 fps is a very pleasant load to shoot and will be more effective than a .380.....not knocking the 380, because it will do too.

The problem with .380s is that unless you buy one that operates on the locked breech principle, the recoil is worst than the typical 9MM. So if recoil is a factor, be careful what you buy in a .380. In addition to that, the recoil spring in the non locked breech 380s is a lot stiffer and that makes racking the slide a little problematic for a person who has weak hands. Add the potential for feeding/ejection problems brought about by 'limp wristing' and I would definately opt for something on the order of a Smith 442 with that 110 grain loading.

UGlide, the unfortunate victim you write about should of fired her exposed hammer revolver right through her purse rather than try to draw it. That is one reason to choose a revolver over a semi-auto pistol. Try to have an open mind concerning this purchase for your wife, as there are both pros and cons to most every option; nothing will be absolutely perfect.

If you are near Atlanta I will be glad to let the two of you try a few different handguns.

I have a .32 H&R mangum -->a 331 Titanium J-frame. With buffalo bore's new .32 H&R magnum +P 100 grain Hornady XTP load it is very formidable.

HEAVY 32 H&R MAG. +P

1300 fps and 375 ft-lbs out of a 4 inch barrel and around 1115 fps out of my 2 inch j frame--280 ft-lbs range. It penetrates 17 inches in ballistic gelatin...(I chronographed and tested it). The felt recoil is less than a 38 special! lol I prefer this 331 Ti (with 100 grain Buffalo Bore +P's) for carry and I have a 1911, 8 shot .357 magnum, a Sig .40, a couple 44 specials, etc....You cannot beat the reliability and simplicity of a revolver. No jams, if you have a FTF just pull the trigger again.
(in general)
New shooter + female + semi-auto=possible disasterous consequences

Unless she is going into a crack house, 99% of self defense situations only 2 rounds are fired. J-frame, Ruger SP101, Ruger LCR, etc....or the 331 Ti that ColbyBruce bought his daughter (excellent choice!)

"Wheel guns are REAL guns"