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Old 10-12-2010, 09:29 PM
first-model first-model is offline
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Default Model 1 Resto Questions

Hello everyone,

I'm new to this forum and fairly new to S&W, and I wanted to toss around a few ideas I'm having about a Model 1 3rd issue I recently came across.

This gun is well worn; so much so that I'd probably only consider this a display gun even if I could find .22 blackpowder loads to put in it. I'm giving some thought to doing a light restoration on it to make it a nice display piece, and I wanted to run this past everyone to gather some ideas.

The main problems with it are two missing screws (one screw to hold the split spring to the cylinder lock lever and the other a set screw to hold the barrel latch in place). The ejector cylinder is also missing. I can always just "sit low" and wait for parts to come up on GB, but I'm curious how common these sorts of parts are and whether it's even worth looking.

The next question is the finish. The gun has a nickel finish, and I've no reason to suspect that it's ever been replated. It wouldn't be worth replating the gun, but I did give some thought to putting the barrel, cylinder, body and sideplate into my brass tumbler with some walnut media to give it a bit more shine. I don't believe there's any brass in a 3rd issue and I suspect this wouldn't do much for the lightly corroded spots ...

The next issue is the cylinder lock lever. It's a bit bent, and the result is that the cylinder doesn't lock very effectively. I'm sure with some patience I could work it back into shape, but I'm again wondering if this is something I should try to find in someone's parts bin, or if I should just leave it and be thankful it has survived 150+ years?

The screw that hinges the barrel is also feeling a bit loose. If this was a firing gun I'd think about replacing that screw (and possibly sleeving the hinge hole in the barrel), but I'm not sure if this is regular practice on these guns.

Regardless of how I end up restoring (or not restoring) this, I'll probably make a nice wooden display case for it and put it on top of my desk. I think it's really cool to have a piece of history like this and I want to make sure I dignify it properly.

As a sidenote: I used to be a watchmaker and am more than comfortable handling machinery like this - especially when it's something I know I won't be firing. Even knowing that, there's a sense of pleasure and satisfaction that comes from taking someone's discarded old machinery and giving it the attention that its craftsmanship deserves.

I'm curious to hear peoples' thoughts on this, and any lessons learned from experience.

Cheers,
-- Mike
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Old 10-13-2010, 10:46 AM
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Parts may be available form Poppert's Gun Parts Main Menu. He stocks a lot of parts for older S&W's. Sounds like a nice project.
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Old 10-13-2010, 10:56 AM
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Thanks. I'll give Poppert a call and see what he says.

If anyone on the board has old Model 1 parts laying around, feel free to PM me.

-- Mike
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Old 10-13-2010, 11:04 AM
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I'm attaching a few shots of this Model 1 to give people a better idea what I'm dealing with.

The first shot gives a good idea of the overall condition. The nickel plating is intact, but there's plenty of spots where it's worn through entirely. The second shot of the barrel shows the same thing, although the barrel seems to have fared a bit better (although the plating on the muzzle end is completely worn). The cylinder (in the third shot) shows the most corrosion, and I can see traces of rust scale in the bores.

The fourth shot shows the sundry bits and pieces. Except for the screw that holds the split spring to the cylinder lock lever, and the set screw to hold the barrel clasp in place, it appears to be complete.

The last shot shows the grips. I never really paid attention to these until this morning, and I'm wondering what exactly they are? If I didn't know better I'd guess some sort of ivory, but I don't know better and won't make this assumption. However, I won't do *anything* with the grips until I know what I'm dealing with. There's a small chip missing from the bottom of the right hand grip, but they're otherwise complete and in pretty good shape, although the left grip has a few surface cracks near the brass sleeve.

The serial number of this gun is 676xx, which I believe puts it about halfway through the production run of 3rd issues. Circa 1875 or so, perhaps?

Cheers,
-- Mike
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Old 10-13-2010, 02:33 PM
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Mike, If you used to be a watchmaker, do you still have ( or access to) a watchmaker's lathe? If so, you can make those missing screws on the lathe, but be sure to take a couple of the remaining screws out of the gun and measure the thread pitch, as S&W used it's own proprietary thread pitch ( or you can re-tap the screw holes to a new thread pitch and make new screws to your own pitch choice). Good luck. Ed.
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Old 10-13-2010, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opoefc View Post
Mike, If you used to be a watchmaker, do you still have ( or access to) a watchmaker's lathe? If so, you can make those missing screws on the lathe
Ed, I wish I did. About 10 years ago I sold the lathe to a young person getting into the trade. He needed a lathe and I needed the cash, and while I kind of wish I had kept it, it's gone now ...

I did keep all of my hand tools, though, which I think is giving me a bit of a headstart on this Model 1 resto/refurb/whatever this is.

Do you know what that thread pitch is? Are those screws fairly common across the S&W line (meaning a screw from a more modern gun could be used without looking goofy), or am I going to have to find actual Model 1 screws to keep things proper?

Cheers,
-- Mike
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Old 10-14-2010, 11:09 AM
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Mike, the 'triangular' ends of your Split-spring are missing. I think you should find that spring first as they are scarce. The other parts can be made relatively easily by comparison. Mike #283
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Old 10-14-2010, 03:06 PM
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Mike, do you have a split spring that you would be willing to photograph or scan for me? If it's just a piece of spring steel it probably wouldn't be hard to make another one ... but I'd need a template to work from.

Thanks for the heads-up. I have to admit that I was scratching my head when I took that spring out. I couldn't figure out what it would do given its current shape.

Cheers,
-- Mike
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:06 PM
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Mike, my internet connection is shaky at best and a virus has wiped out many of my files, hence the very tardy response. The only springs I have are in the guns themselves and I won't disturb them for fear of breaking one. I know this sounds calloused but I don't wish to be in the position to "need" one. They are hard to find. I'd suggest Popperts or Dave Chicoine or find a working 'parts' gun for the part. Mike #283
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Old 10-18-2010, 07:40 AM
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I understand completely Mike; no need to apologize.

I'll probably do what I usually do with these sorts of projects; lay low and wait for a good deal to pop up on parts or a parts gun.

The cylinder lock lever itself is also somewhat bent and I'd like to find a replacement if at all possible ... hopefully I can find a clean one with the spring already in place.

What did the spring do? I'm guessing that the top of the hammer would strike the "ears" of the spring and lift the lock lever?

Cheers,
-- Mike
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:55 AM
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Heres a thought:

Now of course, I'm going to be a little radical. If I personally had your gun, rather than go to the trouble, at least now, I'd keep it as is and try to find higher condition 1st-3rds that need some little part that you have in this gun. It would take a replate to really bring the gun back because of the amount of wear/rust.

Just from a $$$ perspective, there are good parts there but is it worth it to bring it back, or would it be better to bring back a nicer one? Even if you got the screws and the other parts needed, your gun isn't worth very much due to production numbers and finish. Now if its a family heirloom, then I completely understand. I thought I'd just share another way of going about it. Who knows, maybe you will find the parts you need but for the here and now, I would look for other projects that would be an easier fix.
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:08 AM
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Mike, your assessment of the function of the split spring is correct. The 'nib' in the hammer top raises the cylinder stop to allow the cylinder to rotate to the next charge hole. Upon firing, the hammer nib splits the spring so as not to unlock the cylinder from battery. Mike #283
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:23 AM
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Thanks Mike.

At this point I'm working on getting the last few pins out of the body so I can give it a really thorough cleaning.

Does anyone know if the main arbor that the hammer pivots on screws into the body with a right hand thread or left hand thread?

Cheers,
-- Mike
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:31 AM
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Mike:
I have the same situation with my model 1 1/2 tip up. I broke the cylinder stop spring while removing it for extensive cleaning. I tried contacting many of the suppliers that deal in S&W antique parts but to no avail. I contacted Popperts and Dave Chicoine for parts but they did not have that part. I have researched the makeing of such springs from various sources and materials. It is not hard to make flat and coil springs. I have ordered flat spring stock from Brownell's and have the DVD on make flat springs and coil springs from AGI by Bob Dunlap. It is not hard and I have ordered all the necessary equipment and Bob explains it so easily. Since this is my first, I will probably take me a few tries to make a good spring. The spring stock should be hear on tuesday and I will be at the bench on Wednesday. Since you were a clocksmith, you should have no problem. We all need projects from time to time. Those parts are hard to find and there are times you will need to make one. Good Luck.
Nick
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Old 10-22-2010, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobby-gunsmith View Post
Since this is my first, I will probably take me a few tries to make a good spring. The spring stock should be hear on tuesday and I will be at the bench on Wednesday.
Nick, *please* keep us posted on how this goes. I'm not actually sure I've done that much work with spring stock; the main spring inside of a watch is the mainspring, but I think it would be very rare to make a mainspring since they are commercially available in virtually any size you could ever hope to need. Most of the fabrication I did was in much softer metals like brass, unless it was a part being turned on the lathe.

If your Model 1 1/2 turns out well you may consider making your talents available to others. I know I'd pay a reasonable fee to have a new spring made.

As an aside to this ... I finally got the rest of the gun disassembled. The only pins I have driven out are in the hammer (one for the little catch for the mainspring and the other holds the cylinder detent lever). Not sure I need to remove these since the hammer looks surprisingly clean; we'll see.

Now the dilemma is how much cleaning to do. I'm feeling a tremendous urge to bead blast and re-blue the trigger (which has a good bit of surface rust), but I know that'll be a slippery slope downhill. Common sense tells me to do a thorough degreasing and to leave it at that ...

Cheers,
-- Mike

Last edited by first-model; 10-22-2010 at 07:55 PM.
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