One of the local gun shops in town got a big shipment of used 19s and 66s, all dashed models, all 2.5" barrels. One of the employees said they came from somewhere overseas. Anyway, they've got a 19 that is in really rough condition that I though about making a lowball offer on and having refinished. The gun is blued, but has significant amounts of rust. The magna grips are beat up pretty bad. And the worst thing is that someone took an electro-pen and incribed some kind of serial number in about 5 different places on the gun. It's about a 7 digit number with a few dashes, not a familiar combination like a SSN or anything.

But I've got a trusted gunsmith friend that I'm confident could remove the bluing, polish out the electro-pen markings, and reblue and make this gun good as new. And since he's a friend, he gives me pretty good rates. He reblued a barreled action and gave it a high polish for $80! Looks just as good as any factory finish.

So my question is, what would a 19 in that condition be worth or be expected to see at? I think the shop has $400ish price on it, which is unrealistic in my opinion.

I traded for a well-used 1968 19-3 in 2.5" and I've been offered 400 for it as is. That price may be a little high, but it's not too far off for a pinned and recessed mag. Could probably talk them down to 350 or so.

I'm pretty sure this 19 isn't pinned or recessed. And well-used would be being generous when describing the condition.

I'm thinking about $200. Am I way off?

Make the offer. What's the worst thing they can do? Say "no"?

Go from there.

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John 3:16 .

in the condition that you describe...i think $200 is more then fair...let us know!

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

As a shooter gun I would think that $200-250 would be a decent price range. Another way to look at the deal, if you were to have the gun refinished (without a friend discount) you would be looking at another $200 meaning you would have more invested in a refinished gun than you could sell it for.

Best of luck in your dealings.

I think $200 is a generous price in that condition.

I may swing by there and see what they say to $200. I wouldn't be buying it with resale in mind.

I'd also say $200 is about all I'd consider paying for 1 like that. The main thing will be to check the bore, timing, lockup, etc. and make sure it is mechanically ok, as that would definitely add to the cost/complexity of fixing it. Where I live, minty specimens can be had for $450 if you shop around.

Hope this helps,
John

I stopped by on my way home from work today. I checked the bore and it was alright. Timing was good. And it just had a slight bit of play in the cylinder. I offered the guy $200 and he said no. Then he says the owner just walk in and he says to him, "Hey, this guy wants to insult you on this 19." So I told him I'd do $200 and he just walked away without saying anything. He got halfway down the aisle and turned around and said "As a dealer, I'd like to buy 100 of those for $200." I said you're stupid if you'd pay $200 for a gun in that condition! And that was all that was said about it. No counter offer, nothing. I'll not ever go back.

Forgot to mention, the price tag said $419.99.

Oh, and it had electro-pen in a lot more places that I thought. Right side of the frame on the top strap, left side top strap, inside underneath on the top strap, on the rim of the cylinder, on the bottom of the barrel lug, and underneath the grips. If the gun didn't have all of that, I'd probably go up to $275 for it. But all that carving on it makes it look horrible. And the other 19s were the same way.

That is no loss for you. For the money he is asking you can get a lot better one. I bought a crisp 2.5" Model 66 with box, etc at a pawn shop for $409 tax and all. That guy will take that gun to the grave at $419.

When I was in college I worked at a liquor store. The boss had a sign that said "Samson killed 10,000 Philistines with the jaw bone of an ***. Each day at least that many sales are killed with the same weapon". Maybe you should get one of those for that salesman of the year.

There's a gun show this weekend, so maybe I'll take my cash and see what I see there.

At my local pawn there's a 19-3 in the same shape you mention(~50%)for $300. it was $399. over a year ago when I offered $200. It's a hard sell for them when everyone wants a magazine to load not cylinders these days. To bad for them I know how to read their tickets/price tags and I know what they paid and how long ago. Keep looking you can find 98% 19's for less than $350. -there out there-

That dealer is off his rocker. You offered at the high end of what it's worth. Just save your money and buy a nice one. Don

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"Don't worry be happy"

You were good to pass. There are more out there. I found one a couple years ago, nearly unfired, but with finish problems from being in a gun rug and getting damp and left. Yeah, a real rash. I bought it for $275 and invested $225 in a metaloy finish. It wears like iron. I'm not unhappy.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Nice weapon, H Richard. - 'ole joe.

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Semper Fidelis
West Virginia

You were right to walk out, the guy sounds like a real A-hole.

$200 is probably too much for that **** anyway, he thinks his piles of **** are made of gold because they have S&W on the side. These were probably security or police guns from the Phillipines or something and got beat on every day for 20 years.

I learned my lesson buying "beaters" in the end you don't get your money's worth, you have a gun that looks so bad it makes you feel like you might get tetanus just touching it, and for $100 or so more you could have found a better gun. I have saved a dollar or two buying a beat up S&W, ended up getting a gun that was painful to look at, and in the end just bought a better example later on anyway.

Another thought on the etched numbers might well be case numbers. As in court case, the PoPo has been known to tag a nice gun.

You did the right thing, look around...

Thanks for the support. Sometimes I get something in my mind and fixate on it. But you guys are probably right, saving my money and waiting a little longer for a better deal is the smart thing to do. I should have snapped some pictures so you could see just how bad it was.

It sounds like someone took an electro-penmanship course on that gun. I think you made the right call in walking away from that deal. Model 19's are available here in the Portland area for $400 to $500 depending on condition, barrel length and extras. I'm sure you'll find a good one if you can be patient.

Good Luck,

Jerry

This wouldn't be in Alabama, would it?

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S&WCA 1729

No, this in Missouri.

I had some members PM about the name of the shop, so I'm always happy to help. Maybe someone with better negotiating skills can wear the shop down and pick one up for a good price. Of the 3 model 19s that they have, the blued one was far worse. The other two were nickel and I probably wouldn't give much more than $275 or $300 for them. Both had multiple spots of corrosion in the nickel.

The 66s were another story. I'd call their condition about 65% to 70%. It's pretty hard to hurt the stainless. Most of them had Pachmyer grips, but a few had magnas. None of them were p&r'ed and there wasn't a single one under $520. But they had quite a few of those.

They are liable to have them for quite a while at those prices.

After your $200.00 offer was refused, you should have said "Ok, but thank you for your time, have a nice day" and left.
Now you have made yourself un-welcome at the shop and might have missed out of future deals/finds.
Doesn't cost anything to be nice.

Were I in his position I don't think I'd be walking back in that store anyways - not after those insane prices.

If they are stupid enough to think those S&W's are worth the prices they have posted on them, then they may be stupid enough to grossly under price things as well. I wouldn't have burned any bridges. Idiots are great to deal with if you know what you are doing.

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Andy

Trust me, there's nothing underpriced in that shop.

I went to the same shop the weekend before and took my father in law. We witnessed a LEO come in and ask what the cost of the FFL fee would be for a LEO. They told him $40! He says thanks, but no thanks. But he has a Sig 226 that he'd like to sell and get something else. I'd say the gun was about 95% condition with the original box, paperwork, and 3 magazines. The guy behind the counter did some figures on a calculater and told him they could do $275 for the gun! It completely made the guy mad and he just walk away. It's a relatively cramped shop, so I'm confident that about 10 or 12 other people overheard the interaction as well. Before he got out of the store another customer stopped him and they did a FTF sale right there in the store.

The shop is owned and staffed by a bunch of condecending, arrogant jerks in my opinion.

I live in a city of 500,000 and gun shops are a dime a dozen. I highly doubt I burned any bridges or will have missed out on any potential deals in the future.

If it's that bad, why did you go in there in the first place?

I side with the anti-bridge burners. The older I get, the less important it is to have the last word, tell someone he's a fool, etc. You just never know when you may need a little good will.

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You're shy a few manners.

Cirrus

This high-price no-dealing attitude of this shop reminds me of one
in either St Anns, or St Johns, in St Louis Country. This shop had a
rather beatup 1899, that one of the members here told me about.
I ultimately asked this fellow to make an offer, and it was turned down
flat !

It really isn't worth it to buy bad-condition guns. Sometimes the
rusting can result in very deep pits, that may be impossible to get
out.

Mike Priwer

Cirrus,

This wouldn't be Powder Horn in Columbia, MO would it? Hehe... Very friendly folks! When ammo was scarce and it is letting up a bit, WalMart's price on a box of WWB 45 ACP 230 gr. was $19 a box. They were charging $38 a box for the same stuff. They did have have it but Walmart didn't.... Hummm... I occasionally stop in to see what they have but about 99% of the time walk out empty handed. There are other places to buy. You just got to shop around. I never make any negative comments. Never burn bridges... Just politely say "No". Sometimes a blind hog gets the truffle! When things get better, and they will, I will remember the "gougers". I hope you will too.

If that guy bought those revolvers in a lot as you mentioned, and paid more than $200 for that quality, he probably won't be in business long. Give him time to sell off the "better" ones and see what he does with the left-overs like that one (if you aren't to p1$$3d off to deal with him at all) after it likely sits around for a while.

Guns in the condition you describe are attractive only as project pieces and rough use (what we call "truck guns" around here) but should be priced accordingly! JMHO, and YMMV, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Froggie

Agreed!

I don't particularly care to burn bridges either,but I'm not going to let a shop owner or employee treat me like a city yuppie who has no idea of what guns are actually worth.

If there's ever a gun there that I want and they don't have priced at double it's value, I might go back and play nice. But I'm not going to hold my breath for that to happen. Lesson learned and I'll just take my business elsewhere. I usually buy 3 or 4 guns a year, and now that's 3 or 4 potential sales that shop is guaranteed to miss out on.

I have a small side business myself, so I can see both sides pretty easy. Biggest rule of any business is to treat your customers with respect. Don't insult them, don't be condecending, and be as accommodating as possible. If a customer made what I considered to be an "insulting" offer on one of my products, I'd swallow my pride and politely say thanks for the offer, but I can't accept it. If it's one thing I've learned, customer service is a huge part of any business and I have no patience for businesses that treat their customers poorly. It's not like they've got a monopoly on the gun market, so it's just as easy for me to go somewhere else.

Here's a "deal" I would gladly pass on......the guy wants about $200 for it, I can spend $50-100 more for one that doesn't look like it was stored in a salt water tank

I wouldn't pay more than $100 for this, it has little more use than a beater or a shooter, and only if the bore and chambers didn't get roached.

from my experience, trying to buy a used gun in a gun shop is a real challenge. I'm not saying you can't find dealers who let their used guns go below or at fair prices, many do but I just don't see many prices I can't pass up. maybe because most new gun owners start at the gun stores and wouldn't know the difference between a bargain and a gouging? it's also possible that since they have so many other guns that turnover quickly they can afford to let a few sit around for the "right buyer?" contrast that with pawn shops that seem to have a motivation to move products quickly. so they price accordingly. this is where I usually find my "deals". also just because you score on a deal doesn't mean the seller didn't score before he offered it to you. these guys know what they got for the most part and it might sicken you to know what they paid for the gun. they also know their buyers and their knowledge level. in your case he knew you were no fool and it may just be he didn't like being called on his obvious gauging tactic. but that's his problem, not yours. never show emotion when these guys act the fool. just thank him and go about your business. you may not get the gun but you won that exchange in my book. there are too many others out there willing to make reasonable offers and deal with you on an even level. don't get all worked up over these jerkwads.

What these dealers do, with the extremely high priced used guns, is they know collectors like us will walk away but they want the guy who only buys 1 or 2 guns every few years, sees an "old S&W for $400!" and jumps on it because he doesn't care, he just wants it and has no idea what it should cost. I have bit my tongue many times seeing these guns sell at gun shows to people with more money than brains, Colt Police Positives selling for $900 and Pythons for $3,000........

I have dealt with more idiot gun dealers at gun shows than I can count, I walked away over $20 one time on a used Rossi .38 I wanted just as a range blaster, I offered $200 cash and the guy was like "It's $220 or I'll just sell it to someone else.....$20 what is that a large pizza and a soda, c'mon......" I just left it on the table and walked.......probably better off, don't need another beater foreign made boat anchor anyway.........I'll bet he ended up packing that one back up when the show was over, guess he didn't know people aren't lining up to buy used, holster worn Brazilian made .38's!

Hi,

I bought a M28 a month ago, The blueing is 50-60% at best. I only have $250 in it so I think it's ripe for a refinish. Where did you get your metaloy done? Did the 225 include prep work?

Thanks..sorry to hijack the thread!

Vic

Just another "I've got gold - you've got brass" kind of fellow. Clearly he paid too much for the package deal when he bought them but believes that since they are S&Ws he can extrapolate an inflated price regardless of the condition. I don't think your verbal exchange hurt a thing as it appears that attempting to do business with that shop is not something you will be doing in the future. At least you had the opportunity to let the owner know that not everyone that comes into his shop is not an idiot.

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Doug

My thoughts exactly!

Before I payed anything for what you are talking about, I would have to take her down and pull the side-plate and have a look see, we had a chance to buy 4 19s & 2 66s for 800 dollars. I have never seen handguns in such bad shape. Wore out wheels,firing pins timing so far off the cyclinder would not line-up. Good for nothing junk, unless you want to put 400 on top of the 200 and thats just to get it to fire. Now for looks